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[Sho_Nuff82]

how much do microsoft charge for repairing consoles in the US? the price I was quoted once was £65 for full repair and years warranty on that repair. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm pretty sure you couldn't and still can't buy a 360 for less than £65.

Sony? well, sony charge £120 for repairs and with console prices around the £200 for some time in the UK, it makes more sense to buy a new ps3 than pay for it be repaired.

The 360 has a 3 year warranty in the US, it's free to replace in that window.

 

[sangreal]

We've talked about this. The attach rates would be astronomical if this was true. It's been refuted again and again, and it keeps coming up.

Besides, a certain number of all consoles are either broken, closeted, or 100% Madden machines when it comes to software. It evens out.

that IDC (lol) report actually touches on this. IIRC, for installed base they just use numbers from the last 5 years to account for broken/abandoned consoles

 

[John Harker]

ZombiU sold near 200.000 thats ok for a new IP on a new console.

You, sir, are making stuff up. It didn't sell anywhere near 200k

Spoiler

unfortunately!!

 

[Rand6]

3DS SW 3rd party LTD

bird (Yes it's no.1) // kid friendly, low price
400k
ssf4 // core title, biggest best launch game
logo sw3 // kid friendly
kh3d // disney, kid friendly
sonic // core game but visuals make it look like it's good for kids

300k
mario sonic //kid friendly
skylanders // IP dedicated for kids
logo potc //kid friendly
200k
re:r // core title
asphalt // WTF ?
logo batman2 // kid friendly
rayman // core game but visuals make it look like it's good for kids
cars2 // IP for kids
150k


I think i see a pattern here

Where did you get those numbers from?

 

[Zaventem]

I think it's super foolish to discount repeat sales of 360s to people with broken systems. It's a much bigger number than anyone wants to believe. Here in the office I work with someone whose family bought four due to failure, and that after getting them fixed early on.

Most consumers don't go back to the manufacturer for the repair. They just buy a new one. That's how people have been trained by the retailers and the manufacturers... expect failure of electronics and that it's "cheaper" to just get a new one.

And yes, I do think Microsoft has had historic attach rates with 360, because Xbox Live forces many to choose the 360 console for online play due to friends being on that system. There is a clear trend to top selling releases and about one game per month being "hot" on 360 in a sort of feeding frenzy of gotta have it gaming among kids/adults.

The greatest thing Microsoft ever did was show everyone what everyone else is playing via the Friends List. It's a more powerful sales tool than any paid for marketing.

lol using anecdotal evidence to make a guess on 70million+ plus xboxes sold.

 

[YoungHav]

it is annoying that Sony never releases the numbers.

 

[John Harker]

They sold more copies than in November, as ZombiU likely matched its November sales for a LTD>100K.

literally every game sold more in December than November

Spoiler

that's how bad November was. December wasn't much better, though we finally have some games at 10% attach rate!!

 

[Clay Davis]

The 360 has a 3 year warranty in the US, it's free to replace in that window.

the rrod warranty? that was worldwide, I was wondering what the cost of repairs is. his comment that people often find it cheaper to get a new one is something I find really strange and at odds with reality.

 

[sangreal]

the rrod warranty? that was worldwide, I was wondering what the cost of repairs is. his comment that people often find it cheaper to get a new one is something I find really strange and at odds with reality.

it's $99 to repair in the US. No it is not cheaper to get a new one, but to be fair I have been considering it since the new models are a huge upgrade over my (broken) launch unit

 

[Nirolak]

ZombiU sold near 200.000 thats ok for a new IP on a new console.

It's much, much closer to 100K than 200K.

 

[Version 3.0]

People are fooling themselves if they think the next xbox and playstation will light up the sales charts when they launch. Gaming sales have changed since the launches of the 360/PS3/Wii.

I imagine they'll sell fine, might even be supply-constrained. It's hard to imagine them not outselling the Wii U's first couple of months. And there's no chance at all that their software will sell as poorly as the Wii U's has.

But no, I don't expect them to "light up the sales charts". This next gen may be the first one in history to contract vs. the prior one.

 

[see5harp]

lol using anecdotal evidence to make a guess on 70million+ plus xboxes sold.

It's possible that he took his 2 person sample size, and extrapolated 10% by projecting to global numbers.

 

[SmokyDave]

We've talked about this. The attach rates would be astronomical if this was true. It's been refuted again and again, and it keeps coming up.

Besides, a certain number of all consoles are either broken, closeted, or 100% Madden machines when it comes to software. It evens out.

I think the astronomical failure rate of early 360's certainly is notable. That said, we have no idea how many were replaced on warranty, nor any real idea of how many actually failed. In addition to the factors you mentioned it's not something that can reliably be used to pooh-pooh 360 sales to any great extent.

As an aside, it wouldn't surprise me if the 360 did have an astronomical attach rate. Achievement fever + word of mouth over XBL may have sold many, many games.

 

[see5harp]

it's $99 to repair in the US. No it is not cheaper to get a new one, but to be fair I have been considering it since the new models are a huge upgrade over my (broken) launch unit

I paid $125 to upgrade to a refurbished slim (with a reduced warranty) from the launch 60 gig.

 

[Version 3.0]

2-year contracts run out. Parents upgrade to new iPhone and pass old one to kids. Handheld sales go to the toilet?

That's an interesting theory. I've certainly noticed that the smartphone/tablet impact has been curiously delayed. My theory was simply that established products were/are somewhat immune, but that new products (like the 3DS and Vita) get hit hard by the comparison. Which makes me wonder how new home consoles might be effected.

But what you say makes a lot of sense.

 

[donny2112]

The N64 only shipped 250k units between launch and Christmas in the US, and that was the largest, most successful console launch up to that time.

Have some NPD yearly totals from back then showing ~1.8m N64s sold in 1996. Is there a Nintendo shipment number for it?

 

[TheNatural]

? N64 was a huge phenomenon so that is a strange example. It was sold out everywhere, so while they may only have shipped 250,000 units (source?) that was a supply problem unlike the Wii U's demand problem. Even my mom camped out to get one as a gift.

Here is a contemporary article on the N64's supply problems: http://money.cnn.com/1996/11/07/companies/nintendo_pkg/



Also, for laughs


and people complain about today's launch lineups

Yup, I had to wait until like January to get an N64. Severely supply constrained. So was the 360. I'm not sure about the PS3 because of its $599 bomba, but this new cute little excuse comparing Wii U's numbers to other launches is pure stupidity.

For the last time, the Wii U launch numbers were poor because of a lack of demand, it can be found anywhere, it's just no one wants to buy it! Other launches like the 360, Wii, PS2, N64, among others had poor numbers BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T BE FOUND ANYWHERE.

Whoever keeps repeating those numbers, stop being dense and use common sense.

 

[kinggroin]

blast from the past indeed

NPD TRSTS VIDEO GAMES

Top 15 Video Game Titles Ranked by Units Sold
September, 1996


Last Average
Month Rank Title Platform Publisher Retail Price

* 1 Super Mario 64 Nintendo 64 Nintendo $62.48
* 2 Madden 97 Sony Playstation Electronic Arts $54.60
1 3 Tekken 2 Sony Playstation Namco $46.07
* 4 Pilotwings 64 Nintendo 64 Nintendo $62.15
* 5 Crash Bandicoot Sony Playstation Sony Computer Ent $53.30
* 6 Beyond the Beyond Sony Playstation Sony Computer Ent $56.35
12 7 Tetris Attack Super Nintendo Nintendo $32.03
* 8 Andretti Racing Sony Playstation Electronic Arts $52.05
* 9 NFL Quarterback Club 97 Sony Playstation Acclaim $54.00
2 10 Super Mario RPG: Super Nintendo Nintendo $65.39
7 11 Donkey Kong Country 2 Super Nintendo Nintendo $58.36
3 12 Super Mario Kart Super Nintendo Nintendo $31.43
* 13 Madden 97 Saturn Electronic Arts $56.42
* 14 NCAA Football Gamebreaker Sony Playstation Sony Computer Ent $55.79
10 15 Nights (with control pad) Saturn Sega of America $62.88

 

[Graphics Horse]

Don't worry, january numbers should make it a lot more obvious.

 

[Version 3.0]

How much does supply issues for a few weeks really impact the sales spread out over two months though? Feels like as much of a stretch as saying the Wii U having supply issues for a while because the distribution of premium bundles was scarce early on.

When it's the first two weeks of a product's existance, it can be significant. Especially at Christmas, when a thwarted potential buyer may turn to the competitor's product instead.

Besides, the jump in PS3 sales from Nov to Dec makes it pretty clear that there was significant unmet demand in November. The Wii U figures don't convey that at all.

 

[John Harker]

Could be too soon to call for good, but...

Kingdoms of Amular LTD > Darksiders II LTD. by not that small of a margin.

Man, that fantasy action game is a tough genre right now.

 

[Version 3.0]

Pretty simple his point.

360 isn't the success some believe, you gotta slash the number of systems sold by half at least.

It's absolutely ridiculous to still have people talking about RRODd and systems sales. But at the same time it's important to know who thinks like that I guess, makes it easier to ignore.

It's a silly argument in any case. Hardware sales are really just a shorthand way of looking at what really matters, which is software sales, because that's where most of the profit lies. And the 360's software sales are, if anything, understated by that shorthand.

 

[theviolenthero]

You know, the other thing about 360 sales is you really have to wonder what percentage of them are people who bought a second (or third, or fourth) machine due to mechanical failure. So many gamers talk about getting the latest model and ditching their old one. There must be at least 10% (likely higher) of their sold through number that is people replacing broken 360s.

I bought a white Wii system at launch and later bought the Black Wii.
Bought a DS phatty at launch and later bought a Cobalt Blue DS Lite.
etc,etc,etc.....

This argument can be made for any gaming system.

 

[Can Crusher]

Wii U's are available everywhere, and the price isn't a barrier.

Considering those two very important points, things don't look rosy. But it is true that the software lineup and marketing efforts by Nintendo are weak thus far.

Also, I would say it's imperative for Nintendo to change that box, because it just looks like they are selling a touchpad that can work with the Wii, which means that once the initial roundup of sales that are mostly done by hardcore Nintendo gamers, sales have the potential to look terrible in the not so distant future.

They have an awareness problem right now along with a poor software lineup, in the sense that these WiiU games look nothing more than what 360 and Ps3 are putting out.

Change that box, show the big guns in terms of software, and sell the Wii U in the marketing, not solely the touchpad. Because that thing isn't anything near what the Wii Mote was in its time.

If they don't act light on their feet, and plan for significant price cut come the end of the year....we are looking at a GC story at best.

It's a silly argument in any case. Hardware sales are really just a shorthand way of looking at what really matters, which is software sales, because that's where most of the profit lies. And the 360's software sales are, if anything, understated by that shorthand.

Well you know, silly people make silly points.

 

[Miles X]

Graph I made from the data I have.

 

[slit]

I imagine they'll sell fine, might even be supply-constrained. It's hard to imagine them not outselling the Wii U's first couple of months. And there's no chance at all that their software will sell as poorly as the Wii U's has.

But no, I don't expect them to "light up the sales charts". This next gen may be the first one in history to contract vs. the prior one.

I don't think it's hard to imagine the PS4 selling less than that at all. Of course there are a lot of unknowns there.

 

[Version 3.0]

Do you have Nintendo reports from that time?

There are sources that cite NPD figures between 1.8 and 2 million for N64 sales in 1996, including 290k on its first month (Sep, 1996).

Edit: blast from the past: http://wayback.archive.org/web/19961112125805/http://www.npd.com/toyspr1.htm

I admit that I'm going from memory, but that's from Next Generation magazine, which I do still have. I'll take a look when I get home. Maybe it was just for the actual launch day.

There's no way the N64 did 2 million in '96. I don't see any figures on your link, just a ranking?

edit: now that I think about it, I believe there was an article the next year about how they diverted N64's from Japan to meet demand in the US for Christmas. I'll look for that as well. Still no way they hit 2 million. 2 million would make the N64 the best-selling system at launch, ever, in the U.S., over the first 4 months. We'd have been dogging on every other system launch since then for not doing better. Just no way.

edit2: after a couple of google searches, clearly I was wrong and the 250k was the launch shipment.

 

[Buttermilk]

Pretty simple his point.

360 isn't the success some believe, you gotta slash the number of systems sold by half at least.
It's absolutely ridiculous to still have people talking about RRODd and systems sales. But at the same time it's important to know who thinks like that I guess, makes it easier to ignore.

You have to slash the number of xbox's sold in the first couple of years by at least half. Not sure how that effects console's sold recently.

 

[Crawl]

Holy Hell PC retail of AC3 outselling the Wii U version in the US is crazy.

 

[AniHawk]

i think epic mickey sold the most on the wii u out of all the hd systems. of course, the 3ds and wii versions sold better than that.

 

[Clay Davis]

it's $99 to repair in the US. No it is not cheaper to get a new one, but to be fair I have been considering it since the new models are a huge upgrade over my (broken) launch unit

so it's not drastically different from the price they charge in the UK. I'd recommend a slim. I'm the happiest I've been with my current reach slim.

I paid $125 to upgrade to a refurbished slim (with a reduced warranty) from the launch 60 gig.

ps3? why is it not surprising that the repair fee is just a direct dollar to pound conversion. :/

 

[Can Crusher]

You have to slash the number of xbox's sold in the first couple of years by at least half. Not sure how that effects console's sold recently.

Yeah man, they shouldn't even count the first couple of years man. Then slash half of what they've sold recently.

 

[Delusibeta]

Their current systems didn't light up the charts when they launched, so I could see how one could reach that conclusion. Personally I wanna know how much the new sony/MS hardware will cost at launch before I predict anything. Price is always the largest barrier to entry (as nintendo found out with 3ds and then again with wii u lol).

Considering the rumoured specs, I can't see either the Xbox 3 nor the PS4 being less than $400, which frankly will bomb. I think that a console will have to be less expensive than an iPad Mini in order to do any kind of numbers.

 

[Miles X]

Yeah man, they shouldn't even count the first couple of years man. Then slash half of what they've sold recently.

LTD 360 - LTD of Original Xbox = number of active 360's in the wild. (50m~)

 

[Psychotext]

Graph I made from the data I have.

Very wiggly. I approve.

 

[Can Crusher]

LTD 360 - LTD of Original Xbox = number of active 360's in the wild. (50m~)

Actually, because I don't know anybody that still has a 360 I'm sure they are all stored in pawn shops.

Xbox Live is a lie too man, I know nobody who pays for that.

 

[djtiesto]

Doesn't help if you live in the west and prefer western style games though. In fact, given the device is region-locked, it doesn't really help if you live in the west and prefer Japanese style games.

This is my problem The 3DS definitely has the most exciting lineup as far as games go, too bad half of the ones I'm dying for are still stuck in Japan without news on a localization. Hopefully these 3DS sales are considered "good" and that will encourage more translations of said games.

Thats a niche audience, just like Japanese gamers that like Western games.

The audience of westerners who like Japanese games is much much bigger than the audience of Japanese gamers who like Western games!

 

[see5harp]

ps3? why is it not surprising that the repair fee is just a direct dollar to pound conversion. :/

Yup. I wasn't happy with having to pay that much even, but it wasn't worth buying a completely new one. I was sorta forced into that option though because I had a disc stuck in the console and knew that once you have that YLOD issue your system is like a ticking time bomb.

 

[Orca]

You have to slash the number of xbox's sold in the first couple of years by at least half. Not sure how that effects console's sold recently.

Why?

Whether they were sold as replacements or not, they're still systems sold to consumers. Are we supposed to start trimming off PS3 numbers because some were sold as Blu Ray players?

 

[guek]

i think epic mickey sold the most on the wii u out of all the hd systems. of course, the 3ds and wii versions sold better than that.

Is this true? If so, I shudder to think what its total LTD is. What a monumental bomb.

Also, no sony numbers yet, eh?

 

[jetjevons]

It's much, much closer to 100K than 200K.

That's still pretty good out of the gate (given the HW sales). I imagine it'll do well for them over the systems life.

 

[John Harker]

If no one minds a bit of steering in this debate, the Wii U hardware sales are kind of fine, not really an issue considering the market... the software sales, on the other hand, range from ok to troubling. That's really the part worth discussing. No ones really buying, only like 2-3 games with attach rates at 10%, may lose exclusives this way unless demand for software increases to the point projects become profitable/more profitable.

And also the X360 hardware discussion right now is laughable, people saying it isn't as big of a success, still bringing up the failure rate. Not worth going down that path, gents. It's mostly a non factor at this stage.

 

[Father_Brain]

i think epic mickey sold the most on the wii u out of all the hd systems. of course, the 3ds and wii versions sold better than that.

3DS "version" is a distinct game, so it probably shouldn't be counted as an SKU of EM2 proper. But I wonder what all four console versions combined have sold, compared to EM1's first month. Half? A third? Less than a third?

 

[Road]

I admit that I'm going from memory, but that's from Next Generation magazine, which I do still have. I'll take a look when I get home. Maybe it was just for the actual launch day.

There's no way the N64 did 2 million in '96. I don't see any figures on your link, just a ranking?

edit: now that I think about it, I believe there was an article the next year about how they diverted N64's from Japan to meet demand in the US for Christmas. I'll look for that as well. Still no way they hit 2 million. 2 million would make the N64 the best-selling system at launch, ever, in the U.S., over the first 4 months. We'd have been dogging on every other system launch since then for not doing better. Just no way.

One of the sources was posted here on GAF: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69205

Super Mario 64 sold 1.7 million in 1996 alone: http://wayback.archive.org/web/19970709064104/http://www.npd.com/c_st_e3.htm

So, unless people were buying it twice, the almost 2 million N64 figure make sense. =P

The rise and fall of the US handheld market
...

Something similar:

 

[Anth0ny]

Is this true? If so, I shudder to think what its total LTD is. What a monumental bomb.

what the fuck did they expect releasing on november 18th?

you aren't selling in november unless you're a highly anticipated AAA title (COD, Halo) or soccer mom christmas present (just dance, skylanders). anything in between just can't compete. same thing happened to sonic generations last year =(

 

[guek]

2-3 games purchased for each console within its first 2 months sounds perfectly fine to me. I wonder if the problem is a combination of NSMBU being the overwhelming favorite launch game and the lineup being too broad and too unremarkable for any one game to get a solid attach rate. There are plenty of great games in the launch lineup, albeit much of which is available elsewhere, but if there were fewer quality titles and more stand out 3rd party titles, the numbers might have consolidated better around key games.

 

[Sadist]

If no one minds a bit of steering in this debate, the Wii U hardware sales are kind of fine, not really an issue considering the market... the software sales, on the other hand, range from ok to troubling. That's really the part worth discussing. No ones really buying, only like 2-3 games with attach rates at 10%, may lose exclusives this way unless demand for software increases to the point projects become profitable/more profitable.

So I'm assuming that titles like AC 3, Tekken TT 2, ME 3, the sports games are underperforming terribly at this point?

I don't know what third parties are expecting from those titles.

 

[lwilliams3]

Yup, I had to wait until like January to get an N64. Severely supply constrained. So was the 360. I'm not sure about the PS3 because of its $599 bomba, but this new cute little excuse comparing Wii U's numbers to other launches is pure stupidity.

For the last time, the Wii U launch numbers were poor because of a lack of demand, it can be found anywhere, it's just no one wants to buy it! Other launches like the 360, Wii, PS2, N64, among others had poor numbers BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T BE FOUND ANYWHERE.

Whoever keeps repeating those numbers, stop being dense and use common sense.

This can easily be countered by asking, "How much would the 360/PS2/N64 sale if there wasn't any supply problems?" There is no real answer to that.

We can't even answer if the numbers would be very different if Nintendo released more deluxe models compared to overshipping the basic. Going with your approach, Nintendo's issue is that they did not cheat and created a sellout by intentionally undershipping the Wii U.

 

[Zeeman]

blast from the past indeed

NPD TRSTS VIDEO GAMES

Top 15 Video Game Titles Ranked by Units Sold
September, 1996


Last Average
Month Rank Title Platform Publisher Retail Price

* 1 Super Mario 64 Nintendo 64 Nintendo $62.48
* 2 Madden 97 Sony Playstation Electronic Arts $54.60
1 3 Tekken 2 Sony Playstation Namco $46.07
* 4 Pilotwings 64 Nintendo 64 Nintendo $62.15
* 5 Crash Bandicoot Sony Playstation Sony Computer Ent $53.30
* 6 Beyond the Beyond Sony Playstation Sony Computer Ent $56.35
12 7 Tetris Attack Super Nintendo Nintendo $32.03
* 8 Andretti Racing Sony Playstation Electronic Arts $52.05
* 9 NFL Quarterback Club 97 Sony Playstation Acclaim $54.00
2 10 Super Mario RPG: Super Nintendo Nintendo $65.39
7 11 Donkey Kong Country 2 Super Nintendo Nintendo $58.36
3 12 Super Mario Kart Super Nintendo Nintendo $31.43
* 13 Madden 97 Saturn Electronic Arts $56.42
* 14 NCAA Football Gamebreaker Sony Playstation Sony Computer Ent $55.79
10 15 Nights (with control pad) Saturn Sega of America $62.88

Mario 64 must have the highest attach rate of any launch game ever, right? I can't imagine anyone buying the N64 without it.

 

[CrunchinJelly]

Mario 64 must have the highest attach rate of any launch game ever, right? I can't imagine anyone buying the N64 without it.

Sonic Adventure probably comes close.