metareferential
Member
Yeah, poor Ninty.
With the incredible infrastructure they put together for online play and digital delivery, third parties really must hate it.
NPD January 2012 Sales Results [Up2: MW3 Sales, (Down ~50% Over BLOPS, But Still #1)]
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
Yeah, poor Ninty.
With the incredible infrastructure they put together for online play and digital delivery, third parties really must hate it.
Monumental
Banned
One group is affecting sales more significantly than the other. (It's not the early adopters)
WTF? Third parties don't hate Nintendo. The HD Consoles + PC are a larger market than the Wii market. Considering the fact that developing for the Wii requires a whole paradigm shift in development, which one do you think most developers will produce games for?
Not to mention the fact that the "HD Market" has consistently shown to buy traditional games a lot more than the Wii market.
On the other hand, the WiiU seems to be fixing all the problems the devs had with the Wii, and I suspect there will be A LOT (Re: 99%) more 3rd parties developing for the system.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Just checked my library from this gen, here are the games that were released in January:
2012: Haunt (XBLA), Quarrel (XBLA), Mutant Mudds (3DSWare)
2011: Lost in Shadow (Wii), ilomilo (XBLA), NightSky (PC), Mindjack (360), Ares (PC), Kaptain Brawe (PC), Magicka (PC), Dead Space 2 (360)
2010: Darksiders (360), VVVVVV (PC), Plucky's 3d Adventure (XBLIG), Glory of Heracles (DS), Vandal Hearts (XBLA), Mass Effect 2 (360), No More Heroes 2 (Wii), KrissX (XBLA), Toki Tori (PC)
2009: Big Bang Mini (DS), Elebits 2 (DS), Caster (PC), Cuboid (PSN), Moon (DS), The Maw (XBLA), Another Code R (Wii)
2008: GTA Classics (PC), Burnout Paradise (360), Endless Ocean (Wii), Advance Wars DoR (DS), No More Heroes (Wii), The Wonderful End of the World (PC)
2007: Phoenix Wright JFA (DS), Hotel Dusk (DS), Rogue Galaxy (PS2)
2006: Electroplankton (DS), Marble Blast Ultra (XBLA)
So I basically feel like it's always been pretty slim and mainly digital. I bolded home console releases that I thought were actually /significant/ in some way. When you take into account that I buy a lot of older stuff, the fact that the previous years have more games doesn't really surprise me, I suspect January 2012 will end up looking pretty on par with the other years by the time I've done some bargain basement shopping later in the year.
Can't accept the fact that you are wrong, Pachter? Hmm?
That's some revisionist history.
Certainly the lack of any real huge breakout 3rd party hit didn't help, but the idea that any real 3rd party support existed in the first place is silly.
The Wii didn't get third party support for a variety of reasons and there's a lot of blame to go around for that, and it eventually lead to the decline of the console, but at no stage was there any real investment from anyone. That was the problem.
As an aside, de Blob sold really well on the Wii. It was the multi-platform sequel that killed the franchise and got Blue Tongue shut down.
Narpas Sword0
Member
Just Dance 3 is #2 on the charts with Wii as its #1 console
NBA 2k12 is #4 on the charts with Wii behind PSP in volume
Zumba is only on Wii and is on the charts
Skylander leads on Wii on the charts
Madden is on Wii and on the charts, with Wii in third place in volume
Third parties come out with children's games and shit rhythm games on Wii because that is the userbase that Nintendo has presented to them.
This is not some mystery. Third parties made games that were like the games that sold well on Wii. They gave up making the sort of games that flopped on Wii.
NBA 2k12 is #4 on the charts with Wii behind PSP in volume
Zumba is only on Wii and is on the charts
Skylander leads on Wii on the charts
Madden is on Wii and on the charts, with Wii in third place in volume
Third parties come out with children's games and shit rhythm games on Wii because that is the userbase that Nintendo has presented to them.
This is not some mystery. Third parties made games that were like the games that sold well on Wii. They gave up making the sort of games that flopped on Wii.
I under-estimated the drops across the board, but those are particularly steep.
bigtroyjon
Member
What does after November have to do with anything? .
Anyone expecting 2012 360 sales to surpass 2011 after December is about as tuned in with the market as Mike "You won't find a 3DS on the shelf in 2011" Pachter.
And Funny enough Udraw which was a massive success on the Wii ended up gettign destroyed as a brand when yet again they decided to take it multiplatform. THQ fucked up 2 strong properties by trying to be greedy
jamesinclair
Banned
The price drops came too late.
I never bought a PS3 or X360 because they cost way too much.
And then 3 years later they STILL cost too much.
And then 6 years later they STILL cost too much.
Should have been $99 by year 3, aka, like last gen.
Now, they can drop to $99 and frankly, I wont give a shit. The ship sailed, its old news. Yawn, etc.
I never bought a PS3 or X360 because they cost way too much.
And then 3 years later they STILL cost too much.
And then 6 years later they STILL cost too much.
Should have been $99 by year 3, aka, like last gen.
Now, they can drop to $99 and frankly, I wont give a shit. The ship sailed, its old news. Yawn, etc.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Wii U is a new console, at $350 or less early adopters will flock just for the novelty and superior graphics. The demographic willing to by current gen consoles at $299 is rapidly drying up.
SolarPowered
Member
You retorted by making assumptions of your own. They were even worse to boot.
congrats
The story of this generation.
I don't know about hate... but there was certainly a lot of stupidity and little adaptation there.
Hilarious
GarthVaderUK
Banned
You should've got a second job.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Next month has a lot of software that would be really interesting to see the performance of:
FFXIII-2
The Darkness 2
Soul Calibur V
Kingdoms of Amalur
Twisted Metal
Resident Evil Revelaitons
Asura's Wrath
Twisted Metal
Vita games
MGS3D
Syndicate
UFC
Hopefully there's more leaks than usual. Lot of mid-tier titles that could go to respectability or maybe high level numbers or just be a complete bomba.
FFXIII-2
The Darkness 2
Soul Calibur V
Kingdoms of Amalur
Twisted Metal
Resident Evil Revelaitons
Asura's Wrath
Twisted Metal
Vita games
MGS3D
Syndicate
UFC
Hopefully there's more leaks than usual. Lot of mid-tier titles that could go to respectability or maybe high level numbers or just be a complete bomba.
nextgeneration
Member
Exactly. Bring on next gen. I'm so done with this gen.
You live in fantasy land.
Diatribe1974
Member
It'd be interesting to see the REAL numbers if NPD was able to include Wal-Mart and digital distribution sources (Steam, Origin, DD, GMG, ect) for NA. I'd wager good money you'd see a ton "non-tradtional" games in there.
I think this data just really reinforces my sense that in large part Nintendo basically saved the gaming industry. Can you imagine if the Wii had tanked? I know people like to dismiss it for it's "casual" games (even though the meaning of that sometimes gets blurry) but imagine if either the PS3 or the 360's sales was the generational leader.
The industry saw some contraction especially early on I remember from a developer perspective because of the increased cost of HD development, but the industry would be in so much worse shape without the Wii. i said this in another thread but even though I know the 360 in particular had a great December neither the PS3 or 360 have shown themselves capable of growing or expanding the industry significantly, if Nintendo had followed their lead I think we'd be in much more dire times from an economic perspective.
The industry saw some contraction especially early on I remember from a developer perspective because of the increased cost of HD development, but the industry would be in so much worse shape without the Wii. i said this in another thread but even though I know the 360 in particular had a great December neither the PS3 or 360 have shown themselves capable of growing or expanding the industry significantly, if Nintendo had followed their lead I think we'd be in much more dire times from an economic perspective.
Considering how many developers have shut down over the course of this gen and the complete collapse of any sort of B-tier gaming (between AAA blockbuster and indie) on HD systems, I think it's safe to say that they did bet on the wrong horse.
Not sure how you can even make this argument when most of the third-parties didn't even give the Wii "traditional games" to work with in the first place. And for those that did, a lot of them poisoned the well early with their quick minigame cash-ins so there was no traditional market to nurture. Let's not forget all the "test" games (Capcom) and traditional games with niche appeal at best (Mad World).
Did Nintendo make mistakes with their design and handling of the Wii? Yes. But third-parties also contributed largely to the death of the Wii and their own declining profits.
Are you unemployed or something? $200-250 is not a lot of money.
Little Green Yoda
Member
It's the 3rd parties' fault for competing with Nintendo's games directly. If they had attracted a greater variety of gamers to the Wii by giving it quality support early, everyone involved is probably better off.
There is one thing that I really don't get about this...
Why did 3rd parties choose to go with the Wii ____ route instead of going the Mario or Zelda route?
Sho_Nuff82
Member
It is pretty obvious that Nintendo and MS milked their prices longer than usual due to struggles from their competitors at different points in the generation. If the Wii was selling gangbusters or the Wii was out right now, MS would have dropped by now.
Again with the 3rd party argument. The Wii was not the first console on the market - next gen HD development was already underway, and the 360 was already established as an ideal market the online shooter/sports/title. It's Nintendo's fault for being lttp with hw that wasn't anywhere close to 2005 standards.
The Legend of Zelda was outsold by Just Dance this holiday people. Obviously Ubisoft guessed right on the Wii userbase.
Souldriver
Member
Lol wut?
No, third parties never had interest in developing for the Wii. They had made such big investments in the HD gen that they felt like there was no way back. They bled money for years, but stuck to their roadmap because eventually the HD business would become profitable.
They could've made big money on the Wii if they had actually invested more in the console, but they had to have been dragged to the console kicking and screaming. And as the industry as a whole decides to ignore the console, you can't blame each individual developer not wanting to invest time/money in the "neglected" console.
This was basically the Wii development approach:
You can blame Nintendo for not reading the (developer side of the) industry and releasing a console that nobody wanted to make games for, and for not making bigger efforts in trying to change the industry's decision.
GarthVaderUK
Banned
It was cheaper and faster, presumably.
Narpas Sword0
Member
Why is there a Just Dance 3 but no Red Steel 3? Which one "competes" with Nintendo more directly? Or does it align with Nintendo's core userbase, rather than compete?
Games like Red Steel and that Sega shooter everyone tried to hype are the ones that are swimming upstream. Plenty of third parties gave the Wii games and made lots of money. The games just happened to be casual shit, like many of Nintendo's own top sellers. Serious games like Red Steel waned pretty quickly.
GarthVaderUK
Banned
It'll be interesting to see if Nintendo's expanded market sticks around for the Wii U.
SolarPowered
Member
Seriously
The writing was on the wall around the time Wii sales started coming down and 360 sales had not had their crazy Kinect fueled rise. Microsoft was merely throwing a few buckets of Kinect sand on a roaring fire fueled by red ink and it is starting to show again.
It is if you're someone who has a family to take care of.
Or at the very least, it might seem like a waste of money.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Just Dance 2 -> >5 million sold on Wii, NPD.
Red Steel 2 -> <250k sold on Wii, NPD (although I don't have an updated number, I don't think they'd had a sudden uptick in sales more than a year after release)
I wonder why they made a Just Dance 3. I wonder why they didn't make a Red Steel 3.
You should be working instead of posting here if that's the case.
I just put my order in for the $450 Star Wars 360. I'll stick the other 360 (and Kinect) in the living room.
Worth it too me just to go in my game room.
He could have had a PS3 or 360 a while ago if he saved $20 each paycheck. Seriously, $250 is not a high price at all for a PS3 slim 160GB.
I think that was a rhetorical question unless I'm misunderstanding his point.
He's saying that the reason third parties made games that fit Nintendo's audience instead of trying to make core games is because the games that fit Nintendo's audience sold better, unless I'm confused here.
Because it's lower cost and isn't a second sequel to a poorly received launch game? Because a Just Dance 3 exists in a software environment that third-parties cultivated for party games as opposed to single-player experiences? There's a million reasons, most of them starting with decisions third-parties made at launch.
frankie_baby
Member
red steel 1 though despite being shit was a million seller, if it hadnt taken 3/4 years for a sequel it might have stood a chance
This is an Ubisoft issue that seems to apply to all of their franchises outside of Assassin's Creed.
Narpas Sword0
Member
That is exactly my point.
Those who say third parties never tried to make a hardcore game are the revisionists here, not me. Third parties tried all kinds of games, and stopped trying with those that were not successful. I don't know how anyone can say third parties have abandoned Wii when Wii holds the second-best-selling third party game even in a month where the console has seen a sales collapse.
Souldriver
Member
The Red Steel name was pretty tainted though, so it should've needed rave reviews for it to be a success I assume.
Interesting. I think it's the other way around actually. Current-gen consoles have been out for 5-6 years now, so there's not that many "late adopters" left. I think the market is really ready for next-gen consoles, as long as they're priced appropriately.
Fantastical
Death Prophet
I don't understand these types of posts. You know nothing about his or her life or how he or she perceives the worth of these consoles.
Believe it or not I think they can do simple math.
bigtroyjon
Member
Aside from THQ's failed HD Udraw endeavor, which companies are showing red ink?
As far as I can see, pretty much everyone else is doing better now than at any other point this gen.
If there's no Red Steel 3 is because Ubisoft made the really great Red Steel 2, as a (on name only) sequel to a launch title that some people bought, but had many problems; on top of not advertising the sequel at all and needing an accessory too.
While Just Dance was a success from the beginning, no extra add-ons needed, and Ubisoft continued promoting it around: parties, celebrities, sponsors, and talking directly to the community about it.
While Just Dance was a success from the beginning, no extra add-ons needed, and Ubisoft continued promoting it around: parties, celebrities, sponsors, and talking directly to the community about it.
RukusProvider
Banned
You're assuming that if the Wii has bombed out of the gate, the other 2 wouldn't have picked up the slack at all.
The concept of an ever expanding industry is an interesting one. An industry can be healthy without continuous expansion. Perhaps the fault lies in the production side of things.
One could argue that will better tools and resources, studios would be able to turn product in shorter cycles thus letting them run lean and have a better success at profitability. If your costs are not in line with the industry footprint, perhaps at some point, you stop blaming growth and evaluate the ecosystem.
Narpas Sword0
Member
See, this is the point of your post where the cognitive dissonance emerges. Who says that third parties cultivated this? Who spearheaded advertising with this console? Who launched Wii Sports, Wii Play, Wario Ware, Wii Fit, Wii Music?
Who set the tone for this console?
Little Green Yoda
Member
JD3 aligns with the Wii userbase because most of the "core gamers" left for the PS360 or PC. After a certain point without games, gamers leave for greener pastures. That point for the Wii was that huge drought in 2009. The only core gamers left are the Nintendo fans.
Red Steel was a mediocre launch game and the sequel was sent to die. Not sure why anyone would expect it to do well enough to result in a RS3.
The initial Just Dance game didn't go up head to head against any first party titles and built upon the audience with each sequel. They haven't left in a great exodus so that series is still relatively healthy on the Wii.
outunderthestars
Banned
It has sold me on getting one. I recently sold my consoles as I had become bored with them and didn't see a single game on the horizon, outside of Bioshock Infinite that I wanted to play.
TheNatural
My Member!
I agree, this has been a piece of shit generation, maybe the worst ever as far as budget console pricing goes. Mainly because instead of just dropping the price of a SKU, they just drop the SKU all together and introduce a new one, and then when you throw in the slim designs it gets even more ridiculous.
My Sedatives
Banned
Console pricing this gen has been very similar to the iPod business model, level the prices, introduce model tweak/upgrades for the same price. It is sustainable, and drives sales. I am certain that the $99 dollar price point is gone.
I think flat out price drops now shows 1 of 2 things... a new version of the console is coming (The manufacturer is kinda passing the savings on) or there is a severe drop in momentum.
So pretty much, PS3/360 is not getting another price drop until 3-6 months before PS4 announcement and Wii is going to clearance out at $99 in anticipation of WiiU (they've already gone from 199 to 149 at the point of Wii-U announcement).
I guess I am saying the day of Price Drops are truely over until the closing of a generation.
PS3 was a goof because the hardcore fucked up on release.
I think flat out price drops now shows 1 of 2 things... a new version of the console is coming (The manufacturer is kinda passing the savings on) or there is a severe drop in momentum.
So pretty much, PS3/360 is not getting another price drop until 3-6 months before PS4 announcement and Wii is going to clearance out at $99 in anticipation of WiiU (they've already gone from 199 to 149 at the point of Wii-U announcement).
I guess I am saying the day of Price Drops are truely over until the closing of a generation.
PS3 was a goof because the hardcore fucked up on release.