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[x-Lundz-x]

Nintendo hit a massive home run with the Wii, they sold consoles to grammy and grandpa, Mom and Dad, who wanted to play games with their kids and the waggle motion control gimmick did it for them. It was something new and fresh at the time.

They should have known better that they were not going to hit lightning twice in a row by releasing another under powered system who's main selling point is another gimmick, a tablet controller. Well guess what, everyone already has some form of a tablet in their household already via a smartphone, ipad, kindle etc.... It doesn't appeal to people the same way the Wii did.

Oh yeah I kinda forgot you have to have games too. Launching without a 3D Mario, Mario Kart, Zelda, SSB or something that the core fans want to actually play was a major fucking mistake. I have always loved Nintendo games, their hardware sucks a big one, but their core games are amazing. If they had Mario U, or Mario Kart U, or Zelda U at launch I would have been their day one, even with their crappy hardware under the hood.

 

[MikeE21286]

The Wii U numbers are atrocious. The design, market positioning, pricing, and software lineup pretty much imply that NCL is completely out of touch with the Western market.

It's selling better on a per capita basis in Japan, but only barely above the PSP. Still abysmal overall.

 

[Katana_Strikes]

I was looking up some old figures and Dreamcast's first January was just over 60k. Then in May it dropped to 34k and had a horrid couple of months before a price drop landed in August, where it had a healthier year of all over 100k.

Gamecube didn't get to those dizzy lows until May '05 of 50k units. 3 and a half years after it launched.

Nothing but terrible figures for the WiiU and Vita. A price drop will bump sales in the short term but will do absolutely nothing for them in the long. They need a big fresh marketing push coupled by a price drop and actual good releases. Neither have anything big on the horizon so it's going to be a troubled year for the 2 with no real end to it all in sight. Sure Nintendo might have Mario Kart at the end of the year and with a price drop should see a buoyant Xmas outlook but again it just isn't enough. Especially as the market will have 2 new consoles as well as even cheaper PS3/360 machines out there to grab the money.

WiiU is in a very tough place. It's just stuck in the middle with nowhere to get out. But at least it'll be somewhere in the middle of it all. Vita really doesn't have even that outlook.

 

[GitarooMan]

I must be the only one who thinks the WiiU will be a huge success. I believe a platforms success is determined by having a wide variaty of software offerings. Wii U is by design, very flexible and can offer lots of different types of games. When the content is there, in a about a year from now, sales will most surely pick up. Nintendo does have to make sure that atleast some third party ports are on the platform, or else it will be more difficult to build the momentum. But I still believe

How are they going to have a wide variety of offerings when very few devs are making games for it?

 

[AdventureRacing]

Same with the guy who came up with 3DS, most people I know are still convinced it is just a DS hardware revision ala DSi. Assuming they even heard of it, which is surprisingly still not many.

I think the name is fine but it's the advertising where they struggled. People seem to understand the difference between a PS2 and a PS3 or an iphone 3,4,5 or whatever. It's about having the advertising to communicate the difference.

I also don't know many people who have heard of it but that is due to the lackluster advertising for it. Nintendo have completely dropped the ball this gen.

 

[daycru]

Video games are done. In five years we'll all be paying $5 to download all of our games off some dude's website. The games will primarily be therapy techniques for coping with childhood trauma.

 

[Dabanton]

I must be the only one who thinks the WiiU will be a huge success. I believe a platforms success is determined by having a wide variaty of software offerings. Wii U is by design, very flexible and can offer lots of different types of games. When the content is there, in a about a year from now, sales will most surely pick up. Nintendo does have to make sure that atleast some third party ports are on the platform, or else it will be more difficult to build the momentum. But I still believe

They unfortunately don't have the luxury of a year.

Third parties are abandoning ship. These results won't be attractive to any company thinking of bringing their games onto the Wii U.

We've already see Ubisoft who are fairly strong Nintendo supporters, changing tack and rescuing their games from the pits of despair of being a Wii U timed exclusive

 

[radcliff]

I posted this in the other "What Went Wrong W/ Wii U" thread but I think it applies here as well:

With the NES and SNES, Nintendo basically had the entire market. The audience that liked their platformer and action/adventure games (Mario, Zelda, DKC, Metroid, etc.), and the audience that liked the action and RPGs from 3rd parties (Castlevania, Megaman, Final Fantasy, Street Fighter, Ninja Gaiden, etc.). But they lost the latter audience with the N64 due to stubbornly sticking with carts instead of CDs and 3rd parties flocking to Sony. However, they compensated for this by picking up a new audience- the fps crowd- with games like Goldeneye, Turok, Doom, Perfect Dark, etc. In fact, the N64 sold better than the SNES in the US. But then, Iwata and his Japanese-centric mindset entered the picture during the GCN era and relinquished the fps crowd to Microsoft. So for GCN, Nintendo was just left with their core audience and the GCN was their worst selling console. With the Wii, Nintendo attracted a new audience- the casual gamer- and they succeeded once again. But now, with Wii U, they lost the casual gamer and they are back to just their core audience. And history tells us that a Nintendo console with just their core audience typically results in failure. It looks like Nintendo tried to attract back the core gamer, but they tried with late ports and they failed HARD. Now can Nintendo turn this around? It is possible. They could potentially attract a SNES-like userbase by forming partnerships with smaller and/or independent 3rd parties like Platinum, Valhalla, Grasshopper, and Comcept for action games, and Mystwalker and Level 5 for RPGs. Have Retro, NST, and Monolithsoft create new exciting IPs. The new IPs developed with 3rd parties or their own developers would be exclusive to Nintendo and add to their impressive, albiet stale, exsiting portfolio of IPs.

 

[gdt]

I must be the only one who thinks the WiiU will be a huge success. I believe a platforms success is determined by having a wide variaty of software offerings. Wii U is by design, very flexible and can offer lots of different types of games. When the content is there, in a about a year from now, sales will most surely pick up. Nintendo does have to make sure that atleast some third party ports are on the platform, or else it will be more difficult to build the momentum. But I still believe

3rd parties are running for ze hills, and in one year from now the public...and third parties will be excited and talking about the new consoles.

 

[ksamedi]

How are they going to have a wide variety of offerings when very few devs are making games for it?

Well content accumilates. You can still sell stuff from last year to new consumers in the current year. Everything builds up to having a nice library. The 3DS started with a very weak library, but in 2013 it will have a nice library of games for new buyers. Right now the content is weak for the WiiU, but I think there will be great games 1 or 2 years from now that will lead to great sales. Nintendo's challenge right now is marketing. They have to show this console is flexible and has potential.

 

[Cheebo]

The 3DS started with a very weak library, but in 2013 it will have a nice library of games for new buyers.

Then why is 3DS down year over year sales wise? 3DS by all indications is not going that great in America. Pretty much the only region 3DS is a hit in is Japan.

 

[StAidan]

At this point I feel more justified than ever at not picking up a Wii U, and that's coming from a lifelong Nintendo fan. It just doesn't appeal to me the way Wii did.

Maybe we'll get that price drop sooner than I expected. I love Nintendo, but that console is not a $350 value. Very few of my friends have even considered getting a Wii U yet.

 

[MikeE21286]

Well content accumilates. You can still sell stuff from last year to new consumers in the current year. Everything builds up to having a nice library. The 3DS started with a very weak library, but in 2013 it will have a nice library of games for new buyers. Right now the content is weak for the WiiU, but I think there will be great games 1 or 2 years from now that will lead to great sales. Nintendo's challenge right now is marketing. They have to show this console is flexible and has potential.

That honestly seems like an awful strategy IMO.

 

[ksamedi]

Then why is 3DS down year over year sales wise? 3DS by all indications is not going that great in America. Pretty much the only region 3DS is a hit in is Japan.

3DS will definitly do great numbers in 2013 in the US and Europe. If not, then there is a serious problem with the marketing divisions of NOA and NOE.

That honestly seems like an awful strategy IMO.

Its not really a strategy, its something that happens overtime. Early gen people buy for potential, mid and late gen for content and value. Problem is right now that Nintendo has not been able to communicate the potential.

 

[ambientmystic]

Just read the entire thread from start to finish.

The rollercoaster of emotions present when the Wii U numbers were revised downwards was just hilarious. So many Gaffers trying to rationalize the poor ass numbers; some gloating, some trying to discredit the source, some looking on in amusement at the steep falloff in numbers after the great 1st two months in comparison.

Others have already mentioned the littany of reasons why this happened, so I won't bother. All I'll say is that a lot of crow got served in the thread, and many gaffers backtracked from their previous statements. (myself included, I didn't think it was gonna be this bad)

They all need to be fired.

The man who came up with the name Wii U needs to be retroactively kicked in the balls.

Hearing you, and other unwavering Nintendo fans like PhantomR and coolwhip express similar sentiments about the big N in so many words is shocking. I always thought they could do no wrong in your eyes. Glad to know you guys know what needs to be done.

 

[VanMardigan]

I'm supposed to be a great target demographic for the Wii. Ex hardcore gamer, father of young kids, etc. I don't even think the launch lineup bothers me, since I don't have as much time to play games.

So why is Nintendo not getting my money? Price. The Wii U is severely overpriced imo. I'll pick it up when the price drops, hopefully before my daughter's birthday in July. If not, Christmas present it is.

 

[shinra-bansho]

3rd parties are running for ze hills, and in one week from now the public...and third parties will be excited and talking about the new consoles.

Fixed.

 

[MikeE21286]

Its not really a strategy, its something that happens overtime. Early gen people buy for potential, mid and late gen for content and value. Problem is right now that Nintendo has not been able to communicate the potential.

Games don't just appear.

There's a lot of work that goes into making a viable platform. Nintendo is not delivering value to consumers or developers right now.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Next month will be even worse for the Wii U.

If it's still sub-60k in March, then that's the ball game. Either the price has to be cut aggressively along with a bunch of rushed software or the system will quickly become permanently irrelevant.

 

[Tricky I Shadow]

I still can’t believe the Wii U numbers....just crazy....

 

[Cheebo]

3DS will definitly do great numbers in 2013.

Why? It didn't in 2012, it's holiday season sales in 2012 were down compared to 2011.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Just read the entire thread from start to finish.

The rollercoaster of emotions present when the Wii U numbers were revised downwards was just hilarious. So many Gaffers trying to rationalize the poor ass numbers; some gloating, some trying to discredit the source, some looking on in amusement at the steep falloff in numbers after the great 1st two months in comparison.

Others have already mentioned the littany of reasons why this happened, so I won't bother. All I'll say is that a lot of crow got served in the thread, and many gaffers backtracked from their previous statements. (myself included, I didn't think it was gonna be this bad)



Hearing you, and others like PhantomR and coolwhip express this sentiment about the big N in so many words is shocking. I always thought they could do no wrong in your eyes. Glad to know you guys know what needs to be done.

That's the thing December wasn't great. The LTD numbers completely ignored that December was worse than PS3 in 2006.

 

[ksamedi]

Next month will be even worse for the Wii U.

If it's still sub-60k in March, then that's the ball game. Either the price has to be cut aggressively along with a bunch of rushed software or the system will quickly become permanently irrelevant.

A platform doesn't become irrelevant in 5 motnhs, really. Especially when they didn't even release their big games. I give them untill the holidays atleast to make a turnaround.

 

[ksamedi]

Why? It didn't in 2012, it's holiday season sales in 2012 were down compared to 2011.

2013 is packed. Lots of stuff coming and releasing. They can build momentum. The only thing missing is western third party support. But I think with the current userbase, they can pull them in more easily. Something like COD would be a good start.

 

[Shiggy]

A platform doesn't become irrelevant in 5 motnhs, really. Especially when they didn't even release their big games. I give them untill the holidays atleast to make a turnaround.

Right. It's more a question of whether the Wii U becomes relevant to customers and developers in future. At the moment it really isn't.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

A platform doesn't become irrelevant in 5 motnhs, really. Especially when they didn't even release their big games. I give them untill the holidays atleast to make a turnaround.

Things change. Fighting perception is just as important as getting sales.

 

[ambientmystic]

Things change. Fighting perception is just as important as getting sales.

In this day and age, perception is often more important than the reality of things lol. Especially when it comes to the console industry.

 

[Azure J]

Things change. Fighting perception is just as important as getting sales.

This guy knows what's up. After all, perception was the true reason the Gamecube floundered.

 

[evangd007]

They could potentially attract a SNES-like userbase by forming partnerships with smaller and/or independent 3rd parties like Platinum, Valhalla, Grasshopper, and Comcept for action games, and Mystwalker and Level 5 for RPGs. Have Retro, NST, and Monolithsoft create new exciting IPs. The new IPs developed with 3rd parties or their own developers would be exclusive to Nintendo and add to their impressive, albiet stale, exsiting portfolio of IPs.

I really think this is Nintendo's best plan: double down on Japanese support by contracting independent Japanese studios for 1st party games and leverage the goodwill of Japanese third parties built on the success of the DS and 3DS to get 3rd party games on the Wii U. In addition they need to leverage the heavy Japanese support of the 3DS in other regions, but we all know this from the Bravely Default localization requests that pop up in nearly every 3DS thread.

Funny you should mention Platinum, because I believe that we will get some insight on Nintendo's continuing relationship with them next month. If Metal Gear Rising does well, they will remain independent. If not, I expect them to only make stuff for Nintendo for quite some time.

 

[x-Lundz-x]

A platform doesn't become irrelevant in 5 motnhs, really. Especially when they didn't even release their big games. I give them untill the holidays atleast to make a turnaround.

Nintendo is smarter that this, they should have known they needed to have at least ONE of their big games to move units at the beginning. NSMBU is not a heavy enough hitter. Instead they got cocky and were like, omg tablet controller, people will love this!! All the time not thinking you know what we might want to have a big game release to go with our new shiny system.

This time around, I think even when the big games finally come it's not going to make any difference. And for all we know might not hit until sometime next year. They fucked up big time.

They better have a stockpile of Megaton's to drop at E3, but even then I don't think it's going to matter.

 

[AdventureRacing]

Next month will be even worse for the Wii U.

If it's still sub-60k in March, then that's the ball game. Either the price has to be cut aggressively along with a bunch of rushed software or the system will quickly become permanently irrelevant.

I can't see either of those things happening before march and there is basically no games releasing so i don't see what's stopping the sales from dropping. At this point it seems like a near certainty that it will sell those sort of numbers.

Nintendo is smarter that this, they should have known they needed to have at least ONE of their big games to move units at the beginning. NSMBU is not a heavy enough hitter. Instead they got cocky and were like, omg tablet controller, people will love this!! All the time not thinking you know what we might want to have a big game release to go with our new shiny system.

2D mario is a huge franchise and i don't think choosing that to be their tentpole release was necessarily the problem. The problem is that they have diluted the NSMB brand. There are now 4 games from the NSMB line in just 2 gens with one of them launching just months before the wii U version. That plus they just didn't differentiate it enough from NSMBwii or advertise it well enough. If the game was more like an SMB3 to SMW type transition maybe things may have been different. Then again having no more games for months probably would have stopped that momentum anyway.

They were expecting the tablet to have a similar impact to the wiimote but they simply didn't have nearly the hype or advertising behind it for this to happen. Instead they are left to rely on the incredibly barren software line up.

 

[Roland Deschain]

A platform doesn't become irrelevant in 5 motnhs, really. Especially when they didn't even release their big games. I give them untill the holidays atleast to make a turnaround.

By then the real next gen systems will be ready to come out. Semantics and all, but the Wii U doesn't exude a next gen feeling even compared to current systems. It will absolutely pale when Orbis/Durango come out. Now is the time to make a lasting impression (in a good way) and Nintendo completely missed the boat.

 

[Shiggy]

This guy knows what's up. After all, perception was the true reason the Gamecube floundered.

As well as the lack of appealing software when compared to the Wii or PS2 lineup. SingStar, EyeToy, Wii Sports, and Wii Fit were huge hits in Europe.

 

[SmokedMeat]

2013 is packed. Lots of stuff coming and releasing. They can build momentum. The only thing missing is western third party support. But I think with the current userbase, they can pull them in more easily. Something like COD would be a good start.

Too little, too late. Orbis and Durango are the focus of third parties, and will receive the newest ip from the top teams. Any multiplatform scraps U might receive like CoD will look outdated next to the version running on the next gen Sony and Microsoft systems.

Games like Mariokart and Smash Brothers will pull in big numbers because U is selling to Nintendo fans. I don't see even their biggest guns turning the U's fortunes around. Unless you have to have their first party games there's no incentive for gamers to buy one.

 

[ksamedi]

Things change. Fighting perception is just as important as getting sales.

I don't know what the current perception is of the platform, but I think Nintendo has a difficult time to communicate the value. I don't think it is a badly designed product. That's why I think they can turn things around when more content is on the platform. It doesn't even have to be third party stuff. Just good Nintendo games can get the sales to an acceptable level atleast.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

As for Vita, Sony have a couple of shots left. I think Vita-Lite for $149 and payola to third parties for big games (GTA5 portable, mainline COD) as well as GT Vita for Europe.

However, they need to make these moves soon as the window of opportunity is closing pretty fast.

 

[Narpas Sword0]

I was looking up some old figures and Dreamcast's first January was just over 60k. Then in May it dropped to 34k and had a horrid couple of months before a price drop landed in August, where it had a healthier year of all over 100k.

Gamecube didn't get to those dizzy lows until May '05 of 50k units. 3 and a half years after it launched.

Nothing but terrible figures for the WiiU and Vita. A price drop will bump sales in the short term but will do absolutely nothing for them in the long. They need a big fresh marketing push coupled by a price drop and actual good releases. Neither have anything big on the horizon so it's going to be a troubled year for the 2 with no real end to it all in sight. Sure Nintendo might have Mario Kart at the end of the year and with a price drop should see a buoyant Xmas outlook but again it just isn't enough. Especially as the market will have 2 new consoles as well as even cheaper PS3/360 machines out there to grab the money.

WiiU is in a very tough place. It's just stuck in the middle with nowhere to get out. But at least it'll be somewhere in the middle of it all. Vita really doesn't have even that outlook.

Did Dreamcast have a higher LTD by January? Given it came out in September

 

[Dreams-Visions]

This guy knows what's up. After all, perception was the true reason the Gamecube floundered.

No, lack of meaningful 3rd party support and a PS2 head start are why the GC floundered.

 

[Cheebo]

. Just good Nintendo games can get the sales to an acceptable level atleast.

Then why is 3DS still selling well below accetable levels in America (and Europe for that matter) despite gaining lots of first party software? It is still failing to hit Nintendo's sales targets and Iwata at the last shareholders meeting said 3DS is not doing as well as it needs to do.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I can't see either of those things happening before march and there is basically no games releasing so i don't see what's stopping the sales from dropping. At this point it seems like a near certainty that it will sell those sort of numbers.

You misunderstood. I think, if they don't get those numbers for the March NPD (which we'll get in April), then they need to price cut and rush software.

People are going to get the Panic Mode Nintendo they always wish for and forget that it's a Nintendo that doubles down on existing franchises and rushes software like crazy.

Panic mode Nintendo for the 3DS wasn't Monster Hunter 4, it was the rushed and feature incomplete Mario Kart 7.

 

[Majmun]

55k in its third month...

I still can't believe it.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Next month will be even worse for the Wii U.

If it's still sub-60k in March, then that's the ball game. Either the price has to be cut aggressively along with a bunch of rushed software or the system will quickly become permanently irrelevant.

I think March should be above 60K purely because there should be a few software releases and it's again a five-week month. Then again, I expected this month to be higher because of "post launch." So perhaps there'll be even less demand in March.

That's the thing December wasn't great. The LTD numbers completely ignored that December was worse than PS3 in 2006.

Numbers were posted earlier, I think. But in graphical form plotted against the $499/$599 PS3:

 

[Draft]

These sales validate almost all of my hating.

Reboot my precious action focused franchise into stupid casual bullshti? Fuck you, fail.

Try to sell a next gen console in 2013 that's not even as powerful as the Xbox 360? Fuck you, fail.

This was a just NPD.

 

[entremet]

Way too expensive.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

These sales validate almost all of my hating.

Reboot my precious action focused franchise into stupid casual bullshti? Fuck you, fail.

Try to sell a next gen console in 2013 that's not even as powerful as the Xbox 360? Fuck you, fail.

This was a just NPD.

Console wars GAF is embarrassing as fuck.

 

[Killer]

Wow Wii U is suffering. I guess everyone is waiting for Ps4 or next xbox.

 

[StoppedInTracks]

A platform doesn't become irrelevant in 5 motnhs, really. Especially when they didn't even release their big games. I give them untill the holidays atleast to make a turnaround.

In 5 months nobody from the general public will give a shit about the Wii U. Everyone will be focused on PS4/ 720 and every gaming outlet, every website, every forum, every TV ad will be only about those two consoles.

Sorry dude but Nintendo had their 6 months to 1 year before next-gen hits and they fucking BLEW IT. No sugarcoating here - they destroyed the Wii brand name in last 3 months.

 

[TheDrowningMan]

Things change. Fighting perception is just as important as getting sales.

Luckily for Nintendo, an awful lot of people either don't know it exists or think it's a Wii bundled with an expensive U-Draw style device. Not great, but their curious lack of marketing means that perception isn't engraved in granite.

 

[Madouu]

These sales validate almost all of my hating.

Reboot my precious action focused franchise into stupid casual bullshti? Fuck you, fail.

Try to sell a next gen console in 2013 that's not even as powerful as the Xbox 360? Fuck you, fail.

This was a just NPD.

*sigh*

 

[FrankT]

Console wars GAF is embarrassing as fuck.

Naw, just a regular day at the office for Draft.

Anyhow, any hints on PS3 and Wii numbers? Wii come in higher than the Wii U?