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NPD March 2011 Sales Results [Update 2: Super Street Fighter IV 3D]
- Thread starter EviLore
- Start date
CadetMahoney
Member
Well Sony dropped the family sometime ago for ecosystem or something. . . maybe the family moniker was available and Nintendo saw potential with it.perfectchaos007 said:
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
I keep thinking about the issue of how similar the 3DS is to the DS line. I think there's a good point that it defeats an initial eyecatch in the public and that this isn't a good thing.
Then I wonder how much Nintendo may have been banking on the future (whether wisely or not), in that the DS form factor and design has became something so accepted in daily life, especially in Japan. I mean, talk about being between a rock and a hard place:
1. Your new kit looks like a DS revision at a quick glance.
2. Your DS form factor works so dang well, it seems dangerous to abandon it in favor of early promotional value at the beginning of your lifecycle.
The difference with Nintendo has always been software - it's the software that becomes a phenomenon and brings people in droves to the hardware, no matter what it is, or how much it should "supposedly" fail when compared to others. But the 3DS doesn't have its Brain Age or New Super Mario Bros. yet.
Software prices at launch did hurt. $40 for most of the launch game is too much for the average browser. It's too much for portable games. Only SFIV justifies its price due to being effectively a full big boy console game that is crammed with content.
Willing to bet, that Nintendo really was expecting Nintendogs+Cats to sell better out of the gate - much better. They published the full spread of three editions. It's basically the "all audiences" hit from the previous generation. But, no go.
A "next gen tax" for portables is a bad idea. It's going to hurt sales of anything but the absolute must have apex predator titles such as Mario Kart.
Edit: Forgot to add, I think this past generation a personal prediction of mine came true. At DS and PSP launch, I squarely thought PSP software sales were going to be generally abysmal because of pricing that was parity when then-console games. Even if the games were more expensive to develop, that's not the problem of the end customer. While piracy was a huge factor on the PSP, I also had no trouble finding people who would tell me "it's too expensive". As in the games. PSP hardware sales were good, but I think we all know why.
I'd told a friend "People are going to look at PSP vs DS and think 'for every two or three PSP games I buy, I can get an extra DS game.' By the time you bought say, ten PSP games, you could have had up to twenty! DS games since quite a few noteworthy releases weren't even 30 bucks. Many were 20.
Then I wonder how much Nintendo may have been banking on the future (whether wisely or not), in that the DS form factor and design has became something so accepted in daily life, especially in Japan. I mean, talk about being between a rock and a hard place:
1. Your new kit looks like a DS revision at a quick glance.
2. Your DS form factor works so dang well, it seems dangerous to abandon it in favor of early promotional value at the beginning of your lifecycle.
The difference with Nintendo has always been software - it's the software that becomes a phenomenon and brings people in droves to the hardware, no matter what it is, or how much it should "supposedly" fail when compared to others. But the 3DS doesn't have its Brain Age or New Super Mario Bros. yet.
Software prices at launch did hurt. $40 for most of the launch game is too much for the average browser. It's too much for portable games. Only SFIV justifies its price due to being effectively a full big boy console game that is crammed with content.
Willing to bet, that Nintendo really was expecting Nintendogs+Cats to sell better out of the gate - much better. They published the full spread of three editions. It's basically the "all audiences" hit from the previous generation. But, no go.
A "next gen tax" for portables is a bad idea. It's going to hurt sales of anything but the absolute must have apex predator titles such as Mario Kart.
Edit: Forgot to add, I think this past generation a personal prediction of mine came true. At DS and PSP launch, I squarely thought PSP software sales were going to be generally abysmal because of pricing that was parity when then-console games. Even if the games were more expensive to develop, that's not the problem of the end customer. While piracy was a huge factor on the PSP, I also had no trouble finding people who would tell me "it's too expensive". As in the games. PSP hardware sales were good, but I think we all know why.
I'd told a friend "People are going to look at PSP vs DS and think 'for every two or three PSP games I buy, I can get an extra DS game.' By the time you bought say, ten PSP games, you could have had up to twenty! DS games since quite a few noteworthy releases weren't even 30 bucks. Many were 20.
Flying_Phoenix
Banned
lawblob said:
So Nintendogs + Cats F sold hundreds of copies or less?
jamesinclair said:
Has the planned pricing scheme of a console ever gone down since launch?
Kaijima said:
There is no "next-gen" tax on 3DS titles. DS titles started at $39.99 as well. At launch, Bust a Move was $29.99. The prices will come down. No question.
There are a lot of Chicken Littles here regarding the 3DS. It will be a decent seller the rest of the summer (the time everything slows to a crawl anyway) and an absolute monster seller come the fall. No question about it.
Flying_Phoenix
Banned
Kintaro said:
It has to be. Its only competition is the DS itself. The PSP is literally dead everywhere but Japan (by far the smallest "region" if you can even call it that anymore), NGP is at least a year
ish
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Kintaro said:
There may as well be a next gen tax in the eyes of the average person. That's the problem; 3DS is flowing right into the slipstream of the DS. The overall point is that it hurt the launch in the worst possible way 'cause folks are looking at 3DS prices and wondering "why so high?" Nintendogs for the DS is 30 bucks. Nintendogs with a 3D effect is 10 bucks more? Eh?
Nintendo had six years to figure out what prices people will accept, then launch with a price hike on the software side? It's gonna kill launch software.
Sure, it'll come down later. This is just about the launch and why it seems so awful. (Yet still not DS launch awful.)
TheUnknownForce
Member
chubigans said:
Well, at least the price gap at launch for the DS to 3DS isn't 300 dollars. Bit of a difference there.
Not that the gap should have been that big regardless. I think Nintendo will bundle something into it permanently by year-end.
AranhaHunter
Banned
lunchwithyuzo said:
That's the problem, Nintendo doesn't do it, but they should. In this day and age of appstore and free android games, U$40 for a game like Steel Diver and Pilotwings just won't sell IMO. A worthy and big budget U$40 handheld game like Uncharted or Mario will still sell, but I think there needs to be different tiered priced games for different budget and quality games.
Flying_Phoenix
Banned
chubigans said:
I almost was going to comment that on the post but didn't think anybody was going to point that out.
Regardless the PS3's problem was three:
#1 A successful console beat them to the punch
#2 The PS3 wasn't as nearly as successful as it was expected to be at launch or launch window (remember the PS3 vs GBA "grudge match" image?)
#3 $599
People are quick to forget, but prior to E3 2006 the PS3 was treated much like the juggernaut the PS2 was. It had all the big exclusives like Devil May Cry 4, Final Fantasy XIII, Assassin's Creed, and Metal Gear Solid 4. Yet when the system underperformed the exclusives went to other platforms.
Kaijima said:
The prices are fine and the average person understands. If Zelda or a new Mario launched with the system, they would pay $39.99 without blinking an eye. The launch just didn't have a must have. Many launches don't.
They currently pay $34.99 without blinking an eye for Pokemon (even old Pokemon like Platinum), Mario Kart or New Super Mario Bros. Yes, they are still full price. Taking that into effect, you get a 3D game on a more powerful system for $5 more which is a pretty decent deal. Plus, the prices will come down later.
Eh, it'll be fine. If Zelda sells 50k in a month or something when it comes out, then I will raise an eyebrow.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Pilotwings is fully worth $40. Steel Diver, well not so much. Might I ask how much time you've sunk into either?Tobor said:
Also, Nintendo's $20 range (which were all Touch Generations) didn't start until mid 2006. Or a year and a half after launch.
I don't want people to get their hopes up over that one.Dedication Through Light
Member
Kintaro said:
Really? Consoles last summer had sales increases. If the right software is there then it will sell well.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
RE: Is Pilotwings worth $40?
Glyder for iPhone/iPad/Android + Glyder 2 for iPhone/iPad/Android.
I can't remember if these games are $2 or $4, but I'm pretty sure they both have free demos as well.
Of course they don't have 3D, and they don't look quite as nice as Pilotwings, but they're not ugly, they've got as many secrets and unlockables, I think Glyder 2 has 6 or 8 different maps to PilotWings' 1. The gyroscopic control is take-it-or-leave-it.
Clearly there are some genres where iOS games have more impact than others. Puzzle games are one. Pick up and play arcade score attack games are another. Who amongst people who own both smartphones and handheld game players would pay $20+ for Bejeweled on a handheld when you can pay significantly less on a mobile phone? Or that Ubisoft game show shovelware? On the other hand, there are also games where you'd want physical buttons or polish in a way that the smartphone alternatives don't deliver.
So with that in mind, I'd like to submit that although Glyder is not a 1:1 replica of Pilotwings, and although it's not like the gliding simulation genre is to overexposed that some people wouldn't want both, it's going to be increasingly untenable for games with a similar content/feature proposition as Pilotwings Resort to sustain $40 pricing.
Glyder for iPhone/iPad/Android + Glyder 2 for iPhone/iPad/Android.
I can't remember if these games are $2 or $4, but I'm pretty sure they both have free demos as well.
Of course they don't have 3D, and they don't look quite as nice as Pilotwings, but they're not ugly, they've got as many secrets and unlockables, I think Glyder 2 has 6 or 8 different maps to PilotWings' 1. The gyroscopic control is take-it-or-leave-it.
Clearly there are some genres where iOS games have more impact than others. Puzzle games are one. Pick up and play arcade score attack games are another. Who amongst people who own both smartphones and handheld game players would pay $20+ for Bejeweled on a handheld when you can pay significantly less on a mobile phone? Or that Ubisoft game show shovelware? On the other hand, there are also games where you'd want physical buttons or polish in a way that the smartphone alternatives don't deliver.
So with that in mind, I'd like to submit that although Glyder is not a 1:1 replica of Pilotwings, and although it's not like the gliding simulation genre is to overexposed that some people wouldn't want both, it's going to be increasingly untenable for games with a similar content/feature proposition as Pilotwings Resort to sustain $40 pricing.
^ I agree with this.
While a lot of it is subjective, trying to put a personal level of value on having physical buttons & 3D vs the touch interface of an iDevice, you can't get around the fact that there are a lot of successful iOS games that manage to pack loads of features into a very cheap download.
Personally, it's all the background / tertiary stuff that irritates me with the 3DS offerings, and really hurts Nintendo's pricing credibility. If the 99 cent poker game I purchase for iOS can manage to have leader boards, online play, push notifications, in-game achievements, posting my score w/ challenges to Twitter or Facebook, etc., it is unconscionable to not have that in a $40 3DS title. The fact that two of Nintendo's 1st party $40 launch games couldn't even be bothered to integrate the native connectivity features of the system is honesty like rubbing salt in the wound.
I think that despite how much Nintendo would like to replicate the software environment of the DS, they will be forced to quickly adapt. Because so many 3DS owners will also be smartphone / iPad owners, they will quickly be able to tell the difference between a 3DS game with real value that commands a higher price, and a 3DS game that could be had on their phone for 1/10 the price, with little lost.
While a lot of it is subjective, trying to put a personal level of value on having physical buttons & 3D vs the touch interface of an iDevice, you can't get around the fact that there are a lot of successful iOS games that manage to pack loads of features into a very cheap download.
Personally, it's all the background / tertiary stuff that irritates me with the 3DS offerings, and really hurts Nintendo's pricing credibility. If the 99 cent poker game I purchase for iOS can manage to have leader boards, online play, push notifications, in-game achievements, posting my score w/ challenges to Twitter or Facebook, etc., it is unconscionable to not have that in a $40 3DS title. The fact that two of Nintendo's 1st party $40 launch games couldn't even be bothered to integrate the native connectivity features of the system is honesty like rubbing salt in the wound.
I think that despite how much Nintendo would like to replicate the software environment of the DS, they will be forced to quickly adapt. Because so many 3DS owners will also be smartphone / iPad owners, they will quickly be able to tell the difference between a 3DS game with real value that commands a higher price, and a 3DS game that could be had on their phone for 1/10 the price, with little lost.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
lawblob said:
With the bonus that all sensible smartphone games get 15000000 feature updates and 3DS games (?)probably don't have patching support at all. Some of the most popular smartphone games literally have ten times as much content as they did when they launched.
Take something like Angry Birds. I'm not actually a fan of the game, but let's look at the game's history from Wikipedia:
- Launched with 3 episodes, total 63 levels
- First update added 2 episodes, new total 105 levels
- Second update added the hidden golden eggs + 15 more levels, total 120 levels
- Next update added 15 more levels, 135
- Next update added 15 more levels, 150
- Next update added 15 more levels + more golden eggs, 165
- Next update added 15 more levels, 180
- Next update added 15 more levels, 195 <-- I think Game Center achievements came around here
- Next update added 15 more levels + the level skip mighty eagle + Total Destruction mode, 210
- Next update added 15 more levels, 225
- Next update added 15 more levels, 240
4 times as much content, significant new modes and gameplay types. All for free.
(This is not including the Angry Birds Hallowe'en / Seasons spinoff)
elrechazado
Banned
easy to dismiss it and totally miss the point that's being made too...lobdale said:
I can't imagine it would be very costly to make new stages for Pilotwings. Considering that most of the levels consist of dropping rings in various places across the landscape and having you fly through them, it's not as if it would be a major commitment to create a few more 'fly through the rings' or 'pop these balloons' stages.lobdale said:
I mean, come on, the entire level design in that game is just dragging / dropping balloons and rings into place, and setting the clock.
elrechazao said:
I dunno, would I rather pay $.99 for Pilotwings than $39.99? Sure, I guess.
It's an argument I can never win and a position that I can't really sensibly defend, but there comes a point when the game that is offered is just Enough for me. I might get through 63 levels of Angry Birds, flinging the birds at the huts, but that gameplay does not compel me enough to carry me through any number of levels that exist after that. Would I pay 39.99 for Angry Birds if I really really loved it? Sure, I guess.
I'm paying forty bucks for a game that I want to play and that I'll have enjoyed once I'm finished with it. The price of the game at a number like $40 doesn't really make an enormous impact--it's something I wanted to play.
That said, this is an enthusiast hobby, gaming on dedicated gaming devices Built for Gaming. If Pilotwings sells only 40,000 copies at 40 bucks they've made 1.6 million dollars. If they sell a copy for Every 3DS System That Is Out There at .99 it's gonna be half that. Cheap games depend on economies of massive scale. For a lot of stuff on the App Store, it's basically an exercise in marketing: let's keep this One Thing relevant in the minds of as many people as we possibly can, for as long as we can, and the more levels there are for them to mindlessly work through the better, because the more people we have playing it, the more other people will hear about it and drop the ninety-nine cents.
Would it be nice if they continually added more and more levels over the next year and a half? Maybe, but odds are good I'll be ready to play something else by then too.
Regarding the high price, it's a launch game and there aren't a lot of systems out there. I wouldn't be surprised to see games start out at the $40 mark and work their way down to $30, just like what happened with the original DS as the install base grew and it required sales of fewer copies to turn the same amount of profit. Of course stuff like the PSP can have $10-20 greatest hit games, they have 17 million systems out there or something like that. The numbers work in their favor, though they set the precedent of people not wanting to pay so much for their games by doing it.
For every $.99 game like Angry Birds that sells a kajillion copies and adds features and updates forever there are a thousand that are released to no fanfare, find no market, and die. The Angry Birds people have so much money now that they'd be stupid to allow Angry Birds to slip out of the public's eye. For what it costs them to throw together another batch of levels every month or so and retain their audience's mindshare it's hardly surprising that they don't even charge for it.
That said, it'd be nice if Pilotwings had StreetPass. Leaderboards, multiplayer? Take it or leave it. I bought Pilotwings to play Pilotwings. More features don't always mean more value to everyone. Sometimes the game is enough.
Seraphis Cain
bad gameplay lol
Don't worry, Samurai Warriors Chronicles, when I get a 3DS I'll buy two copies of you.
;_;
;_;
AdventureRacing
Member
Stumpokapow said:
Which nintendo has failed to deliver. They have priced the 3DS really high and then they expect it to sell on the back of an incredibly bad software lineup.
There's not even one game that is anything remotely like a killer app. It's like they have completely forgotten what caused the wiis success. They really need a few big games to come out before the end of the year and they can't rely on 3rd parties to do it.
balladofwindfishes
Member
The problem I think with the 3DS is that the DS is still selling very well.
Nintendo is directly competing with themselves.
Nintendo is directly competing with themselves.
3DS sales, were very good considering the competition Nintendo has (also with themselves now with the old DS). I love my 3DS. It's a great system. But Apple has Nintendo (and to a lesser extent Sony) between a rock and hard place on game pricing. Also, 3DS might have a whiff of been there done that with the DS.
http://www.bloomberg.co.jp/apps/news?pid=90920012&sid=akEhNOpiq0.s
Japanese Bloomberg saying Barclays Capital said NPD said 3DS sold 398,000 units.
Japanese Bloomberg saying Barclays Capital said NPD said 3DS sold 398,000 units.
Raist said:
Yes, sellin 400K in 5 days in march for a 250$ handheld is really bad. 3DS is a premium product for now, they dont have to rush anything since the NGP wont be out till end of the year and the have games comin. The regular DS is still sellin strong, they wont leave money on the table by makin the DS obsolete when you can have a 3DS for under 200 bucks.
A Human Becoming
More than a Member
crazy monkey said:
I never thought Nintendogs was a good fit for the people who would buy the system at launch. The numbers seem to validate my conjecture.
I NEED SCISSORS
Banned
lobdale said:
Uh, they could have easily done the same with Wuhu Island in Pilotwings, or fleshed the existing content in Steel Diver out further with new modes and rewards. All that is needed is a skeleton team dedicated to adding in more of this content (like, you know, pretty much every other team behind making DLC for any other game).
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
A Human Becoming said:
Isn't it practically the same game as the last one? I couldn't imagine people who bought the last one would be as interested in this one. It didn't make sense to me to release a product so similar.
Pureauthor
Member
Guys.
The people who would be buying a DS in the year 2011 are not the same people who would buy a 3DS at its launch period so this talk of an overlap is meaningless.
The people who would be buying a DS in the year 2011 are not the same people who would buy a 3DS at its launch period so this talk of an overlap is meaningless.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Plinko said:
The DS is still the best-selling console in North America. The Japanese sales are really the reason we have a 3DS now at all.
30SomethingGamer
Banned
so still no official numbers on Sony, wow, NPD stinks now cause of all the hurt that came from announcing numbers. Unreal, be a man as the Godfather would say..
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Pureauthor said:
But don't you think Nintendo did too little to distinguish the DS from the 3DS? I mean, the commercials basically show it as a 3D version of the DS. They're terrible. They could at least focus a bit on the upgraded graphics. I'd love to see a focus group and their knowledge of the two consoles. My guess is many just think it's a DS that can be used in 3D.
Dedication Through Light
Member
AdventureRacing said:
Its pretty hard to recreate Motion Controls, pack in a minigame compilation, and release a game with another controller, for a 3DS system. What other game caused the Wii's success in year 1? Quite sure it was due to the packed in software, I would think and word of mouth.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Dedication Through Light said:
Difference being, word of mouth was already through the roof when Wii launched, due to an impressive E3 showing and a few talk show appearances.
Everyone and their mother (literally) wanted a Wii from the moment it was launched due to Wii Sports and Wii Play.
I don't think such a killer app exists for 3D (yet). As in, there's no game that says "this is only possible in 3D, throw out your old consoles and games, this is the new hot shit." Augmented Reality apps are nice, but similar time-wasters exist for cell phones already. Nintendo needs its very own Avatar to convince people that they're not just being pushed another incremental DS/Lite/i hw upgrade with generally the same games. Mercenaries is probably the first game that will really set it apart from previous handhelds graphically (if SSF 4 hasn't already), but I still don't think that will be enough to make 3D a $100 premium feature.
TheUnknownForce
Member
Stumpokapow said:
I think that this is an example of what Iwata meant at GDC. Why would a game with 6-8 maps with all the modes and unlockables you mentioned be 2-4 dollars, less than a bare-minimum WiiWare or XBLA game? I think the biggest problem in handheld gaming right now is that iOS developers are underpricing themselves, and now it is too late for them to bound back from the lower end pricepoint without being seen as "too expensive." Of course, at the same time, Pilotwings Resort probably could have sat at less-than 40 dollars considering its content levels. Pricing is a two-way problem, now.
Dedication Through Light
Member
TheUnknownForce said:
Pilotwings issue is its content and no multiplayer and etc. If it actually took advantage of the system then I cant imagine its pricing would be an issue for people. I dont think the low pricing is an issue for those developers, they have to provide content to keep people hooked and from buying the competitors games...I imagine word of mouth is beneficial and those ratings and if people say they keep adding more content then more will buy (though they should take advantage of ingame buying).