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[Christine]

The next gen will be different but I don't think you'll be disappointed. Nintendo is going to try to turn casual gamers into core gamers next gen and Sony and MS are sure to be a lot more responsible with their hardware design without going the duct-tape route.

When you factor in what a hit Hollywood is going to take from the financial crisis and the need for replacement entertainment I predict that next gen is going to blow all of our socks off.

I like this brand of optimism.

 

[Threi]

Which would you prefer price or graphics?

Price. That's a fucking no-brainer.

But then again visuals don't really mean that much to me. (well not much anymore, i kinda got that stuff out of my system with PC games last gen)

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Price. That's a fucking no-brainer.

But then again visuals don't really mean that much to me. (well not much anymore, i kinda got that stuff out of my system with PC games last gen)

I am more than willing to part with $300-$400
to play the next Gears of War or Metal Gear Solid. But I am definitely in
the minority.

 

[Salmon]

Nintendomination!

 

[sprocket]

whats mario karts total sales numbers?

seems some people in this thread forgot it released at the begening of this year.

 

[Captain Smoker]

whats mario karts total sales numbers?

seems some people in this thread forgot it released at the begening of this year.

Software LTD's:
Wii Play: 7.929.501
Mario Kart Wii: 4.013.000
Wii Fit: 3.530.134
Wii Music: 378.000


One of the best selling games ever in the USA now, should be in the All-Time Top20, WiiFit soon.

 

[AntMurda]

Give us some more Wii LTD.

Zelda. Smash Bros. Mario Galaxy. Prime 3.

 

[Dragmire]

So I never really was worried about this before but how can the Wii not affect the future
of gaming consoles. I am sure Sony and Microsoft are having meetings focused solely
on how the next iteration of consoles can be more mass market and cheaper to produce.
I mean what real reason do either of them have investing in creating another console
with bleeding edge technology. It makes me sad for the potential future but I am probably
blowing this out of proportion.

 

[AndersTheSwede]

Anyone else get the feeling that Bethesda way over shipped copies of Fallout 3? They announced what 4 millions units shipped? The title hasn't come close to even half that in NPD's, and it seems a very US centric title (rather like Gears of War).

When I bought my copy last week, Amazon shipped it out from a warehouse in MD, probably Bethesda main publishing location. They're likely stockpiling all these "shipped". Plus various sellers (like Amazon) have been doing price cuts, I managed to snag it for $49 when the games only been out for a month. Amazons price has gone back up but I'm starting to think Bethesda clogged the channel a bit.

 

[Narcosis]

Again, HD consoels are doing more damage by gimping visuals of highend PC games.

Hey now, I'm usually one to point out errors when pople try to dismiss the PC platform or spread the usual BS, but PC games aren't getting gimped by consoles. if they are getting gimped at all it's by the huge costs associated with making graphical powerhouses like Crysis. I mean seriously, Gears of War and Devil May Cry 4 are the first 2 examples that come to my mind of console games that were actually better on PC in a graphical sense and in how smooth the games ran. I;d hardly call the PC versions of most multiplatform games "gimped"

 

[poppabk]

Yeah I just hope they still put a emphasis on graphics.

I definitely think that was a terrible move on their part but as I said above I just dont
want the progression of better and better looking games to slow down.

Careful what you wish for. I think you are going to see a visual technological increase in a similar proportion to the jump from xbox to 360, although diminishing returns will mean that this will not be as obvious increase in the visual output. Just don't expect to see the same level of improvements in things like - physics (non-visual), AI, framerate, tearing, resolution.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

ahh thanks for that. Most 360/ps3 owners must have left the thread a long time ago.

 

[Captain Smoker]

Give us some more Wii LTD.

Zelda. Smash Bros. Mario Galaxy. Prime 3.

Brawl: ~ 3.700.000*
Gala.: ~ 3.400.000*
Tw. P.: 2.200.000**
MP 3: ~ 800.000*


*estimates based on officially NPD data, but should be close.
**source is a recently published IGN article, up to date data.

 

[sprocket]

I for one want to see less emphasis towards graphics and here is why.

what are the most iconic images in games today? designs from 16 X 16 2 to 4 color sprites of the 8 bit days.

everyone instantly recognizes mario , sonic, black mage, red mage, pac man.. eh you get me.

todays gaming has no such thing. it all looks the same. plays the same .. sounds the same.

crap I was playing smash broths. a sec ago and the Kid Icarus song came on and I was like damn wtf happen to game music since then!?

anyway I want the return of fun games making before anything else.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

Which would you prefer price or graphics?

Price, easily. I don't want to spend 1,200 - 1,500 bucks every 5 years just to play the latest games.

Seriously its just presentation I would rather sit on my couch with a controller playing
Left 4 Dead than on my desk hunched close to my monitor.

Do you know how easy it is to put together a HTPC, and get a wireless keyboard and mouse? Anyone complaining about wanting to play games on their couch and that is a graphics whore better own a HTPC or else your completely doing it wrong.

 

[jamesinclair]

I cant be the only one laughing at Harmonixs idiocy?


7 GUITAR HERO WORLD TOUR* (WII) 475K
10 WII MUSIC (WII) 297K
13 Rock Band (Wii)
15 Guitar Hero World Tour (Xbox 360)
17 Guitar Hero World Tour (PS2)

GHWT selling better on PS2 than PS3. GHWT Wii selling best.

Wheres RB 2? Oh yeah, not on the chart.
When does it come out for Wii and PS2? December 22.


Rock Band ONE is there, and surprise, no DLC, = no extra revenue


Good job Harmonix. Real smart move not having the PS2 and Wii versions out on day one.

 

[Neomoto]

Saw the numbers earlier but just now got around to posting in this thread: Holy FUCK at those Wii numbers! Nintendo has crushed the previous all-time November record not just once, but TWICE with DS too :lol Insane, not to mention that its still supply constrained.
Wii sold more then the whole PS family AND Xbox360 combined by a large margin, still having over 200k left.

Which also means that Wii Sports outsold Gears of War 2

Strong software sales all around. Xbox360 hardware did pretty good but PS3 had a very weak showing (hardware & software).

Mario Kart is a beast though. I knew this and Wii Fit would keep selling gangbusters in the holidays like it was a brand new release. These games will likely be on the charts next year too. Hell, Mario Kart DS is STILL on the charts in it's third november. :lol

 

[Cipherr]

Software LTD's:
Wii Play: 7.929.501
Mario Kart Wii: 4.013.000
Wii Fit: 3.530.134
Wii Music: 378.000


One of the best selling games ever in the USA now, should be in the All-Time Top20, WiiFit soon.

Jesus, MKWii is going to walk to 5m in the US alone more than likely. Outstanding legs, I cant believe people still ask "what are all those people buying Wii's playing?" Its such an outrageous question to ask after seeing numbers like that.

Its like the elitist have literally taken "Nintendos first party games dont count" to a new plateau in which they COMPLETELY ignrore all 1st party games. Thats the only way I can describe seeing 5 Wii games in the top 10 And still people ask "What are they playing".

 

[TJ Spyke]

Maybe if the Wii version of Rock Band 2 sells well too (which I expect it too), Harmonix will get off their lazy butts and actually make Rock Band 3 themselves instead of passing the work off to another developer. There is no excuse for them to be ignoring the Wii.

 

[-ImaginaryInsider]

Nintendo is going to try to turn casual gamers into core gamers next gen...

Why would Nintendo want to do that?

Casual gamers make Nintendo more money and it take less resources than traditional core games, if anything it would be in Nintendo's benefit to turn core-gamers into casual gamers.

 

[Lyude77]

I brought this up before but there must be another explaination for what happened to this Holiday's Wii release schedule besides the idea that Wii Music and AC would be enough. If Nintendo decided that they were done appealing to dedicated gamers with the Wii they did an awful job of it for the first year or so of its lifespan with all those great releases.

Even Reggie seemed to think early this year that there were going to be big Wii games this quarter so WTF happened?

Few people seem to realize the importance of WM+. Reggie probably didn't realize that games would be delayed to implement it to improve the quality of the games in the beginning of the year, but that's likely the case. They probably decided Wii Music and Animal Crossing wouldn't benefit much from it and decided to just release them now, whereas other games would need to use WM+.

Wii Music was released because they realized that they needed more than just Animal Crossing (even though WM+ would help WMusic a little). Also, people complaining about AC's quality and lack of Nintendo games are kind of hypocritical, if you want more Nintendo games quickly, they'll end up like AC Wii, with one new gameplay feature but the rest the same. Truly unique games seem to take a while.

That's my best guess, anyway.

 

[tanod]

Anyone else get the feeling that Bethesda way over shipped copies of Fallout 3? They announced what 4 millions units shipped? The title hasn't come close to even half that in NPD's, and it seems a very US centric title (rather like Gears of War).

When I bought my copy last week, Amazon shipped it out from a warehouse in MD, probably Bethesda main publishing location. They're likely stockpiling all these "shipped". Plus various sellers (like Amazon) have been doing price cuts, I managed to snag it for $49 when the games only been out for a month. Amazons price has gone back up but I'm starting to think Bethesda clogged the channel a bit.

Not necessarily.

1) NPD doesn't regularly publish PC sales.
2) The PC market is most robust in Europe on top of the game releasing on the two consoles in Europe.

A lot of sales unaccounted for by exclusively looking at NPD.

 

[Kandinsky]

I cant be the only one laughing at Harmonixs idiocy?


7 GUITAR HERO WORLD TOUR* (WII) 475K
10 WII MUSIC (WII) 297K
13 Rock Band (Wii)
15 Guitar Hero World Tour (Xbox 360)
17 Guitar Hero World Tour (PS2)

GHWT selling better on PS2 than PS3. GHWT Wii selling best.

Wheres RB 2? Oh yeah, not on the chart.
When does it come out for Wii and PS2? December 22.


Rock Band ONE is there, and surprise, no DLC, = no extra revenue


Good job Harmonix. Real smart move not having the PS2 and Wii versions out on day one.

Wait, is that real?!?! if so :lol @Harmonix

 

[SLYspyda]

Brawl: ~ 3.700.000*
Gala.: ~ 3.400.000*
Tw. P.: 2.200.000**
MP 3: ~ 800.000*


*estimates based on officially NPD data, but should be close.
**source is a recently published IGN article, up to date data.

All those numbers should be higher.

Nintendo needs to market those games again, this time, with real tv commercials that actually show game footage, and not that "Wii would like to play" crap which does more in advertising the console than it does the game.

 

[segarr]

So I never really was worried about this before but how can the Wii not affect the future
of gaming consoles. I am sure Sony and Microsoft are having meetings focused solely
on how the next iteration of consoles can be more mass market and cheaper to produce.
I mean what real reason do either of them have investing in creating another console
with bleeding edge technology. It makes me sad for the potential future but I am probably
blowing this out of proportion.

Just try to look at it this way: Games are going to continue to advance, it will just be at a slower pace.

If all had gone well for Sony and MS, we would have been absolutely blown away next gen, as they would have continued the "arms race"....we will still see these games, but instead of next gen, maybe it will take two or three gens.

For all the doom and gloom, we need to remember that companies aren't going to move backwards...maybe we will see a lot more duck taping in the future, but it's not like companies are going to revert back to N64 days or something.

Also, regardless of the casual dominance, there is still money to be made on us niche, hardcore, irrelevant enthusiast.... 4 million copies sold or not, you think that Bethesda isn't making money off of Fallout 3? You think that Halo or Gears don't make money? I'm not sure what these publishers are going to do, but I'd be shocked if they all completely left that money on the table. They know that just as they will never get soccer moms to buy Gears, they will never light a college dorm on fire with Boom Blox either. Rest assured, Microsoft is going to come out with another Xbox, Halo will be apart of that, and it will not be cartoony or family orientated in any way.

What I hope to see next, or maybe what I expect to see, is less core games, but a higher average quality for such games when they come out. I can't see companies wasting resources on games like The Darkness or Fracture next time.

The only thing I'm really, really worried about is that the style of games I like simply won't be doable on consoles because of new control schemes. I'm playing through Fallout 3 now and I can't imagine how this would work as comfortably on the wii-mote as it does on 360 (And yes, I understand that PC games probably feel the same way about 360 controller in comparison to m/kb).

 

[Gaborn]

Wait, is that real?!?! if so :lol @Harmonix

What do you mean is that real? Look at the OP! Although Jamessinclair is wrong about one thing. Harmonix isn't doing the PS2/Wii versions, Pi Studios is.

 

[Captain Smoker]

All those numbers should be higher.

Nintendo needs to market those games again, this time, with real tv commercials that actually show game footage, and not that "Wii would like to play" crap which does more in advertising the console than it does the game.

You know, all of these numbers are very high to insane, except from Metroid Prime 3.

 

[Kandinsky]

What do you mean is that real? Look at the OP! Although Jamessinclair is wrong about one thing. Harmonix isn't doing the PS2/Wii versions, Pi Studios is.

Thanks didnt know the op was updated :O

Oh Harmonix:lol

 

[SuperBonk]

I cant be the only one laughing at Harmonixs idiocy?

I would, but considering that Rock Band 2 is my game of the year while World Tour somehow managed to actually be worse than previous GHs, I am more disappointed than I am giddy.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Far Cry 2 didn't make the top 20?

 

[swerve]

Few people seem to realize the importance of WM+. Reggie probably didn't realize that games would be delayed to implement it to improve the quality of the games in the beginning of the year, but that's likely the case.

Motion+ has been on the cards for years in NCL. It's not like they just one day found it and decided to add it to their games currently in development. They had games they wanted to use a gyroscope for, so they're adding a gyroscope. It's not going to have delayed any games to have it 'improve' them, because those games were always going to use it.

 

[Jammy]

All those numbers should be higher.

Nintendo needs to market those games again, this time, with real tv commercials that actually show game footage, and not that "Wii would like to play" crap which does more in advertising the console than it does the game.

:lol

Are you serious? Yeah, those numbers could be higher, but they already shit on their predecessors' sales on previous consoles.

Those "Wii Would Like To Play" commercials are marketing brilliance. Even Phil Harrison said Nintendo picked up the ball and ran with it with those ads. Instead of retarded FMV for 30 seconds, people were actually shown having a fun time while playing a game. Whodathunkit?!

 

[polyh3dron]

I would, but considering that Rock Band 2 is my game of the year while World Tour somehow managed to actually be worse than previous GHs, I am more disappointed than I am giddy.

Activision will kill the music game genre with their greed if they haven't already.

 

[BuckRobotron]

Have seen these #'s since first moment of posting. Posting primarily at this late time because it just hit me again how impressive it is that 360 managed to capture 1.5m Gears 2 and 1.4m CoD in tandem.

Yet there remain those such as myself who haven't picked up either yet.

 

[Lyude77]

Motion+ has been on the cards for years in NCL. It's not like they just one day found it and decided to add it to their games currently in development. They had games they wanted to use a gyroscope for, so they're adding a gyroscope. It's not going to have delayed any games to have it 'improve' them, because those games were always going to use it.

This is NOA though, they tend to not be as well informed. NOJ was planning for this at least a year in advance, I'm sure, but Reggie might not have known that Q4 2008 was going to be bad in Q1 2008. That was my main point. Plus, I'm pretty sure he's been wrong like that before, so that's a decent chance.

Admittedly I didn't phrase it very well.

 

[onipex]

Motion+ has been on the cards for years in NCL. It's not like they just one day found it and decided to add it to their games currently in development. They had games they wanted to use a gyroscope for, so they're adding a gyroscope. It's not going to have delayed any games to have it 'improve' them, because those games were always going to use it.

Wait why would they make a game for motion + before it was cheap enough for them to release to the market so it would be used for the game?

 

[Phife Dawg]

So I never really was worried about this before but how can the Wii not affect the future
of gaming consoles. I am sure Sony and Microsoft are having meetings focused solely
on how the next iteration of consoles can be more mass market and cheaper to produce.
I mean what real reason do either of them have investing in creating another console
with bleeding edge technology. It makes me sad for the potential future but I am probably
blowing this out of proportion.

Separating the PC and console market again would be a godsend for gamers.

Which would you prefer price or graphics?

Seriously its just presentation I would rather sit on my couch with a controller playing
Left 4 Dead than on my desk hunched close to my monitor.

:lol

 

[JavyOO7]

Only way Harmonix will develop the game themselves for the Wii next time is if it outsells the 360 and PS3 versions combined. Other than that, they'd rather focus on the HD platforms and give one of the other teams a chance to develop them. Eh... I can't complain too badly. I love Rock Band a lot.

 

[vanguardian1]

Only way Harmonix will develop the game themselves for the Wii next time is if it outsells the 360 and PS3 versions combined. Other than that, they'd rather focus on the HD platforms and give one of the other teams a chance to develop them. Eh... I can't complain too badly. I love Rock Band a lot.

You do realize that at this rate, it may not be too far off....

 

[soldat7]

Its like the elitist have literally taken "Nintendos first party games dont count" to a new plateau in which they COMPLETELY ignrore all 1st party games. Thats the only way I can describe seeing 5 Wii games in the top 10 And still people ask "What are they playing".

Are you still playing any of the 5 Wii games in the top 10?

Just try to look at it this way: Games are going to continue to advance, it will just be at a slower pace.

I'm fine with that. I don't want to buy another MS or Sony console for another 5 years at least.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Are you still playing any of the 5 Wii games in the top 10?

People ask "What are these new Wii owners even playing?"

NEW owners are playing the 5 Wii games in the top 10 (or 7 in the top 20 whatever).

I mean, come on. This should be pretty fucking obvious.

 

[soldat7]

People ask "What are these new Wii owners even playing?"

NEW owners are playing the 5 Wii games in the top 10 (or 7 in the top 20 whatever).

I mean, come on. This should be pretty fucking obvious.

Sure new owners are playing these games/activities, but aren't old owners a tiny bit concerned? Or is it all roses because sales of the favored console are great.

"What are you playing?" is a legitimate question; I'm getting a Wii in two weeks and plan on playing all the usual suspects. I'm excited for Muramasa and Mad World but you have to admit, the hardcore are not being catered to on the Wii.

So again, lots of folks are happy with the Wii's current line-up, but are you?

 

[boiled goose]

The only thing I'm really, really worried about is that the style of games I like simply won't be doable on consoles because of new control schemes. I'm playing through Fallout 3 now and I can't imagine how this would work as comfortably on the wii-mote as it does on 360 (And yes, I understand that PC games probably feel the same way about 360 controller in comparison to m/kb).

eh...

I have to force myself to play FPS with thumbsticks after playing MP3 and MOHH2 with the wiimote...

I could get over it for bioshock, halo3 and gears2, but not with far cry 2 for example. (it just want good enough to overcompensate the crappy aiming.

While playing gears 2,,, every one in a while i kept thinking i wish i had a pointer...

Sure new owners are playing these games/activities, but aren't old owners a tiny bit concerned? Or is it all roses because sales of the favored console are great.

"What are you playing?" is a legitimate question; I'm getting a Wii in two weeks and plan on playing all the usual suspects. I'm excited for Muramasa and Mad World but you have to admit, the hardcore are not being catered to on the Wii.

So again, lots of folks are happy with the Wii's current line-up, but are you?

concerned is a bit strong of a word... 2009 already seems much better than 2008...

the fall for wii did suck though....
and ps360 had way too many games...

spread the love next time devs... not only across platform but throughout the year...

 

[BishopLamont]

Sure new owners are playing these games/activities, but aren't old owners a tiny bit concerned? Or is it all roses because sales of the favored console are great.

"What are you playing?" is a legitimate question; I'm getting a Wii in two weeks and plan on playing all the usual suspects. I'm excited for Muramasa and Mad World but you have to admit, the hardcore are not being catered to on the Wii.

So again, lots of folks are happy with the Wii's current line-up, but are you?

Boohoo, you're getting a Wii in two weeks, there's plenty of games for your "hardcore" needs.

 

[Accident]

You do realize that at this rate, it may not be too far off....

Rock Band PS360 was around 3 million by the time the Wii version was released. Rock Band 2 sold around 600k by the end of october so it's still far off. Don't forget that Rock Band Wii is $99 compared to Rock Band 2 at $180

 

[soldat7]

Boohoo, you're getting a Wii in two weeks, there's plenty of games for your "hardcore" needs.

"Boohoo"? Can Nintendo fanboys at least try to be cordial? I reckon that the majority of Wii fans here on GAF can't all be totally optimistic about the situation.

 

[BishopLamont]

"Boohoo"? Can Nintendo fanboys at least try to be cordial? I reckon that the majority of Wii fans here on GAF can't all be totally optimistic about the situation.

You know what games the Wii have, there are PLENTY OF GAMES for you to enjoy. Quit acting like you don't know what games it has. Why do people even bring up game quality in sales thread constantly? It's been done to death.

 

[Linkup]

"Boohoo"? Can Nintendo fanboys at least try to be cordial? I reckon that the majority of Wii fans here on GAF can't all be totally optimistic about the situation.

If you don't like the games in the library then why would you be a fan, heck even Amirox could come up with 16 games he liked. If you look then I'm sure you can do the same. I'm looking forward to them and we already have confirmation early this year for one. The amount of core titles hitting the wii next year should only worry wii owners in America who may not even get half of them. DQ10 was just announced! That's should make a lot of owners optimistic.

 

[Raw64life]

Everything not in the OP so far...

November 08:

360 FABLE II: ~185K

PS3 LITTLE BIG PLANET: ~140K
PS3 VALKYRIA CHRONICLES: ~35K

-----

Rough LTDs:

WII MARIO KART WII: ~4.0 million
WII WII FIT W/BALANCE BOARD NINTENDO OF AMERICA: ~3.5 million
WII WII MUSIC: ~380K

360 FABLE II: ~975K

PS3 LITTLE BIG PLANET: ~355K

-----

Hardware LTD:

NDS: ~24.5 million
Wii: ~15.4 million
PSP: ~13.2 million
360: ~12.4 million
PS3: ~6.1 million

-----

WII PLAY W/REMOTE - 22 months in the top 10 and counting:

February 07 - 371K
March 07 - 273K
April 07 - 249K
May 07 - 227K
June 07 - 293K
July 07 - 278K
August 07 - 257K
September 07 - 282K
October 07 - 240K
November 07 - 564K
December 07 - 1.1 million
January 08 - 298K
February 08 - 290K
March 08 - 410K
April 08 - 360K
May 08 - 295K
June 08 - 295K
July 08 - 285K
August 08 - 200K
September 08 - 245K
October 08 - 280K
November 08 - 795K

LTD: ~7.93 million

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

So I never really was worried about this before but how can the Wii not affect the future
of gaming consoles. I am sure Sony and Microsoft are having meetings focused solely
on how the next iteration of consoles can be more mass market and cheaper to produce.
I mean what real reason do either of them have investing in creating another console
with bleeding edge technology. It makes me sad for the potential future but I am probably
blowing this out of proportion.

Yeah I just hope they still put a emphasis on graphics.



I definitely think that was a terrible move on their part but as I said above I just dont
want the progression of better and better looking games to slow down.

The problem is that most developers can't even handle "current gen" technology. How many small/medium developers do you see working on the PS3/360? Yes I mean there are some but they are extremely few and extremely far inbetween. The only developer of that size that continuiously creates games for those consoles that comes to my mind is "From Software". The reason for this is because it just isn't the texture increase that increases the cost of these games. It's hiring more developers to make the world bigger and more detailed. With that alone more developers to work with creating and smoothing more polygons (Snake in MGS2 has as many polygons as Snake's mustache in MGS4), more developers working with shading and lighting, more developers working with middleware (I.E. SpeedTree for those lushish trees).

And that's just graphics imagine the step ups in A.I. as people have to make more NPC's on the screen and have them work with the bigger and more detailed environments. Imagine what developers have to go through in this day in age where single player and multiplayer modes are standard this generation.

And now you want developers to step into another huge jump? I know you'll say "Well they don't have to though" but they have to they have to get up to standard with the console or else the game would get largely ignored. I could give examples but I don't think I need to.

My point is that technology is moving faster then developers can keep up with. And it really is showing. Just look at PC gaming. Yes games like Crysis and The Witcher exist but the majority of "top-tier" PC games aren't all that impressive. Compare that to last generation where most PC games looked better then most top-tier console games.

A future of $500+ videogame consoles got burned in a fire...and that's a bad thing?

:lol My thoughts exactly.

Hey now, I'm usually one to point out errors when pople try to dismiss the PC platform or spread the usual BS, but PC games aren't getting gimped by consoles. if they are getting gimped at all it's by the huge costs associated with making graphical powerhouses like Crysis. I mean seriously, Gears of War and Devil May Cry 4 are the first 2 examples that come to my mind of console games that were actually better on PC in a graphical sense and in how smooth the games ran. I;d hardly call the PC versions of most multiplatform games "gimped"

Umm no. Those games were "optimized" for the PC and not made ground up with them. I can guarantee you that they'd (especailly Gears of War) would look far better. And even so 2 exceptions versus dozens of games gimped down from PC games?