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[Another48Hours]

Awww it's cute that you think that's what happened here. You're adorable.

I'll give you 2 seconds to not be a child to go and read a couple pages back where his first response was agressive ready to fight and he was called out a couple posts down. Or you can be a mor-

OH WAIT, you did the same thing and ALSO got called out on that same page. I guess all the children have to stick together. I can direct you to both posts but kids usually ignore facts and whine.

 

[Welfare]

I'll give you 2 seconds to not be a child to go and read a couple pages back where his first response was agressive ready to fight and he was called out a couple posts down. Or you can be a mor-

OH WAIT, you did the same thing and ALSO got called out on that same page. I guess all the children have to stick together. I can direct you to both posts but kids usually ignore facts and whine.

Wait, what?

Literally, these 2 posters were only "called out" once, and they weren't even called out. Someone was trying to explain to 5Twist your idea and RexNovis was told by someone that you were just giving a hypothetical situation.

The only child here is you for acting like this.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

I'll give you 2 seconds to not be a child to go and read a couple pages back where his first response was agressive ready to fight and he was called out a couple posts down. Or you can be a mor-

OH WAIT, you did the same thing and ALSO got called out on that same page. I guess all the children have to stick together. I can direct you to both posts but kids usually ignore facts and whine.

But I thought you said no one was backing me up and instead, backing you up. The inconsistencies in your posts are rather astounding

It's also ironic how the person who's accusing disagreers as whiney kids is being the whiney kid, himself...

 

[RexNovis]

I'll give you 2 seconds to not be a child to go and read a couple pages back where his first response was agressive ready to fight and he was called out a couple posts down. Or you can be a mor-

OH WAIT, you did the same thing and ALSO got called out on that same page. I guess all the children have to stick together. I can direct you to both posts but kids usually ignore facts and whine.

You seem to ascribe to the church of "saying it makes it so." Your arguments here have consisted of you making the same statements ad naseum (something you have been told numerous times) as if this proves their validity all the while ignoring or insulting anyone who disagrees with you. The fact you think people here have done anything but politely (or impolitely) dismantle your assertions and point out massive holes in your logic makes it crystal clear you're going to believe whatever you want to believe about what has transpired here.

The real kicker though? You are the one creating your own delusions about what is happening in order to protect your own ego yet you call others "whiny children" and proceed to inform them of what you will allow them to do. Wow dude. Just wow. Irony is a helluva thing.

 

[Kagari]

Let's just... all... calm down.

 

[RexNovis]

Let's just... all... calm down.

Cheers Kagari!

 

[FATALITY]

Let's just... all... calm down.

whats up with gohan avatar?

 

[orochi91]

whats up with gohan avatar?

Gohan fandom is having a renaissance right now.

Lots of interesting developments are happening in the Dragon Ball Super anime.

 

[Welfare]

whats up with gohan avatar?

Gohan fandom is in a new high right now.

 

[Abdiel]

Gohan fandom is in a new high right now.

Future Trunks is best DBZ character. No contest. Sadly, chibi Trunks is by contrast one of the worst characters. Amazing how having his dad around makes him go to crap.

 

[Sterok]

Any hints on what the pre-order situation for Fire Emblem: Fates is like?

 

[Ryng_tolu]

Future Trunks is best DBZ character. No contest. Sadly, chibi Trunks is by contrast one of the worst characters. Amazing how having his dad around makes him go to crap.

Chibi trunks is nice. I agree that future trunks is 100000000 better but imo, At least is way better than Goten.

 

[Welfare]

Chibi trunks is nice. I agree that future trunks is 100000000 better but imo, At least is way better than Goten.

Blackleg get in here.

 

[RexNovis]

All of y'all are wrong. There is one who surpassed all others. One who stands as the epitome of what means to be a Master.

Look upon him all ye imposters and despair.

Spoiler

seriously though guts this is super off topic. Let's try and get back to discussing sales before we get the thread closed

 

[Welfare]

We just gathered 7 posts about Dragon Ball. I think this means we get a wish.

Xenoverse numbers to fit the mood.

Spoiler

lol

 

[Rymuth]

Ya'll can whine...cry...sneer...and condescend. You may call favorites and argue power-levels but in the end, all your favorites are just jobbers to be sacrificed at the altar of Goku.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

Well, MS's results for Q2 FY 2016 :

"XBOX hardware revenue declined driven by lower volumes of XBOX360 consoles sold as those guys switched to PS4"

FTFY, MS.

But seriously, "hardware revenue declined driven by lower volumes of XBOX360 consoles sold", really???

Imagine Apple telling their investors "hardware revenue declined driven by lower volumes of iPhone 5 mobiles sold". The old one isn't the driver of this development, it's the performance of the new one that matters.

 

[slavesnyder]

But seriously, "hardware revenue declined driven by lower volumes of XBOX360 consoles sold", really???

10/10
This is such a sad move.

Red Mond Recrimination

 

[Ryng_tolu]

Booooooo MAU discussion, Dragon Ball is better!

Spoiler

but seriisly Donny we are bored, make the January NPD prediction thread.

 

[RexNovis]

"XBOX hardware revenue declined driven by lower volumes of XBOX360 consoles sold as those guys switched to PS4"

FTFY, MS.

But seriously, "hardware revenue declined driven by lower volumes of XBOX360 consoles sold", really???

Imagine Apple telling their investors "hardware revenue declined driven by lower volumes of iPhone 5 mobiles sold". The old one isn't the driver of this development, it's the performance of the new one that matters.

Well I mean they sold more XB1s during the holidays this year than last year and yet hardware revenue still declined thanks to another sharp decline in 360s sold. Seems reasonable to me. It pretty much accurately sums up the situation: profits from XB1 HW increases were not enough to offset the 360revenue declines.

 

[Raist]

Well, MS's results for Q2 FY 2016 :

I think the 360 is soon going to start selling negative numbers.

 

[Bgamer90]

Well I mean they sold more XB1s during the holidays this year than last year and yet hardware revenue still declined thanks to another sharp decline in 360s sold. Seems reasonable to me. It pretty much accurately sums up the situation: profits from XB1 HW increases were not enough to offset the 360revenue declines.

Exactly -- Not sure why it's wrong to point out.

 

[slavesnyder]

Exactly -- Not sure why it's wrong to point out.

Nothing wrong, but for my taste this is a fog grenade.
Old stuff selling less should be normal, expected, even appreciated by MS.
Problem is that the new stuff can't fill the gap. So, not enough XboxOnes are sold to make up for lost sales of the (cheaper) 360.
This does not sound healthy for a new product sneaking up to the sales peak. If we put together the console sales to the famous Xbox family, it seems that less people are buying Xbox consoles.
Maybe they buy other consoles instead, maybe they switch to PC, mobile or deer hunting (doesn't matter).
Xbox doesn't seem to grow and that's the news they try to hide. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Bgamer90]

Nothing wrong, but for my taste this is a fog grenade.
Old stuff selling less should be normal, expected, even appreciated by MS.
Problem is that the new stuff can't fill the gap. So, not enough XboxOnes are sold to make up for lost sales of the (cheaper) 360.
This does not sound healthy for a new product sneaking up to the sales peak. If we put together the console sales to the famous Xbox family, it seems that less people are buying Xbox consoles.
Maybe they buy other consoles instead, maybe they switch to PC, mobile or deer hunting (doesn't matter).
Xbox doesn't seem to grow and that's the news they try to hide. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't see how this should be considered hiding. Them pointing this out means that the Xbox One isn't doing as well as "the 360 when it was still relevant (though on its way out) + the Xbox One when it was new".

I feel that this should have been expected even before the gen started; The Xbox One would probably have to sell similar to the original Wii in the Xbox brand's most relevant territoires to not have this happen (and the chance of that happening was very slim; regardless of how poor the console's reveal was).

The PS4 isn't in this spot mainly since the PS3 dropped sooner than the 360 did (especially in areas in which the system wasn't #1 like America) and the PS4 is having amazing sales -- sales that aren't normal (and I mean that in the sense that the PS4's sales shouldn't be seen as anything less than very impressive).

 

[Tfault]

Love all this constant currency stuff to massage numbers (good or bad). Real stuff:

Gaming revenue increased $192 million or 5%, primarily due to higher revenue from Xbox Live and video games, offset in part by lower Xbox hardware revenue. Xbox Live revenue increased 24%, driven by both higher volumes of transactions and higher revenue per transaction. Video games revenue grew 47%, driven by the Halo 5 launch in October 2015 and sales of Minecraft. We acquired Mojang AB, the Swedish video game developer of the Minecraft gaming franchise, in November 2014. Xbox hardware revenue decreased 9%, mainly due to a decline in Xbox 360 console volume. Xbox One revenue decreased slightly, due to higher console volume, offset by lower prices of consoles sold.

Well I mean they sold more XB1s during the holidays this year than last year and yet hardware revenue still declined thanks to another sharp decline in 360s sold. Seems reasonable to me. It pretty much accurately sums up the situation: profits from XB1 HW increases were not enough to offset the 360revenue declines.

Not quite Rex, a combination of 360 decline and decline in Xbox One revenue.

Xbox One revenue decreased slightly, due to higher console volume, offset by lower prices of consoles sold

 

[Elandyll]

I don't see how this should be considered hiding. Them pointing this out means that the Xbox One isn't doing as well as "the 360 when it was still relevant (though on its way out) + the Xbox One when it was new".

I feel that this should have been expected even before the gen started; The Xbox One would probably have to sell similar to the original Wii in the Xbox brand's most relevant territoires to not have this happen (and the chance of that happening was very slim; regardless of how poor the console's reveal was).

The PS4 isn't in this spot mainly since the PS3 dropped sooner than the 360 did (especially in areas in which the system wasn't #1 like America) and the PS4 is having amazing sales -- sales that aren't normal (and I mean that in the sense that the PS4's sales shouldn't be seen as anything less than very impressive).

But it is indicative of something that should be worrying for MS imho.

A lower margin would be expected, as in having to be priced competitively they certainly make less margin on a XB1 sold than a 360.
But here we are talking revenue loss, which the XB1s sold cannot offset. It means that they are not converting those diminishing X360 sold into XB1 sold -and the XB1s are more expensive than the 360s at this time, which means they don't have to sell as many units to offset the revenue lost-.

Whether that benefits directly the PS4, another gaming system, or being related to people leaving gaming behind, is another matter.

 

[slavesnyder]

I don't see how this should be considered hiding. Them pointing this out means that the Xbox One isn't doing as well as "the 360 when it was still relevant (though on its way out) + the Xbox One when it was new".

They are not pointing out. I know that they concentrate on positive stuff, leave out negative and shift responsibilities for problems they can't hide. That's perfectly normal for a predentation, pr statement or stuff like that.
Nevertheless it's okay that we state our conclusions here.

 

[GifGafIsTheBestGaf]

you know a bit off topic but not, i was cleaning up bookmarks when i saw one from Octobers NPD. it gave me a chuckle because the gaffer posted about how it was a sign Sony was done in NA lol

 

[leeh]

Nothing wrong, but for my taste this is a fog grenade.
Old stuff selling less should be normal, expected, even appreciated by MS.
Problem is that the new stuff can't fill the gap. So, not enough XboxOnes are sold to make up for lost sales of the (cheaper) 360.
This does not sound healthy for a new product sneaking up to the sales peak. If we put together the console sales to the famous Xbox family, it seems that less people are buying Xbox consoles.
Maybe they buy other consoles instead, maybe they switch to PC, mobile or deer hunting (doesn't matter).
Xbox doesn't seem to grow and that's the news they try to hide. Correct me if I'm wrong.

How can Xbox not be growing when it's had the most users online ever on the 28th? I don't get peoples logic.

 

[Raist]

How can Xbox not be growing when it's had the most users online ever on the 28th? I don't get peoples logic.

Xbox Live is a lot more than just people using their XB1.

 

[slavesnyder]

How can Xbox not be growing when it's had the most users online ever on the 28th? I don't get peoples logic.

If you sold 10 apples yesterday and 5 apples today, your amount of total customers has grown (to 15), but you have sold less day by day.

 

[leeh]

If you sold 10 apples yesterday and 5 apples today, your amount of total customers has grown (to 15), but you have sold less day by day.

If I sold 5 apples at a quid, and sold 10 apples at 40p, I would have 20% less revenue but more opportunity for return business.

 

[slavesnyder]

If I sold 5 apples at a quid, and sold 10 apples at 40p, I would have 20% less revenue but more opportunity for return business.

Now you're talking about oranges.

Your question was how they can possibly sell less when they have the biggest userbase ever.
My reply was basically that your userbase even grows continously when you sell less than before, because it all piles up.
You don't lose consoles sold in the past because those are still counted as active users.

That's the miracle of MAU.

 

[spatenfloot]

If I sold 5 apples at a quid, and sold 10 apples at 40p, I would have 20% less revenue but more opportunity for return business.

You are a fool not to sell those apples at $99.

jk

 

[RexNovis]

How can Xbox not be growing when it's had the most users online ever on the 28th? I don't get peoples logic.

If I sold 5 apples at a quid, and sold 10 apples at 40p, I would have 20% less revenue but more opportunity for return business.

Are you aware how blatantly obvious your "argument" tactics are? When people address your comments you either change the topic being debated by acting like whatever suits your arguments was the actual topic all along or you tell everybody you know better than they do for one reason or another. I wonder how long it will be until the latter comes up. I know I'm looking forward to your next sanctimonious lecture.

 

[leeh]

Now you're talking about oranges.

Your question was how they can possibly sell less when they have the biggest userbase ever.
My reply was basically that your userbase even grows continously when you sell less than before, because it all piles up.
You don't lose consoles sold in the past because those are still counted as active users.

That's the miracle of MAU.

No, you said Xbox wasn't growing as a platform. It's had its largest single user count as a platform on a single day ever, that is a growing platform.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

No, you said Xbox wasn't growing as a platform. It's had its largest single user count as a platform on a single day ever, that is a growing platform.

I feel that he misspoke and meant to say that the Xbox isn't growing well enough. Also, I think this part of his comment is more important:

Problem is that the new stuff can't fill the gap. So, not enough XboxOnes are sold to make up for lost sales of the (cheaper) 360.
This does not sound healthy for a new product sneaking up to the sales peak. If we put together the console sales to the famous Xbox family, it seems that less people are buying Xbox consoles.

 

[RexNovis]

No, you said Xbox wasn't growing as a platform. It's had its largest single user count as a platform on a single day ever, that is a growing platform.

So are you seriously arguing that someone was saying the XB1 has sold no units whatsoever? Of course not because that's absurd. When people say it isn't growing in this context it is perfectly logical to assume they mean it's sales are no longer increasing but in fact slowing down. Apply common sense to people's comments. Especially when English is not everyone's first language or, as was in this case, the remainder of the comment in question actually clarified exactly what was meant. He even re explained exactly what he meant to you.

 

[slavesnyder]

No, you said Xbox wasn't growing as a platform.

Really?
Where. Could you please quote me?
If you are right I am sorry.
Maybe we don't understand each other so well.

 

[gtj1092]

No, you said Xbox wasn't growing as a platform. It's had its largest single user count as a platform on a single day ever, that is a growing platform.

Xbox live is growing but not console sales.

 

[leeh]

Nothing wrong, but for my taste this is a fog grenade.
Old stuff selling less should be normal, expected, even appreciated by MS.
Problem is that the new stuff can't fill the gap. So, not enough XboxOnes are sold to make up for lost sales of the (cheaper) 360.
This does not sound healthy for a new product sneaking up to the sales peak. If we put together the console sales to the famous Xbox family, it seems that less people are buying Xbox consoles.
Maybe they buy other consoles instead, maybe they switch to PC, mobile or deer hunting (doesn't matter).
Xbox doesn't seem to grow and that's the news they try to hide. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Really?
Where. Could you please quote me?
If you are right I am sorry.
Maybe we don't understand each other so well.

Bolded above. If you didn't mean it like that, apologies.

 

[RexNovis]

Nothing wrong, but for my taste this is a fog grenade.
Old stuff selling less should be normal, expected, even appreciated by MS.
Problem is that the new stuff can't fill the gap. So, not enough XboxOnes are sold to make up for lost sales of the (cheaper) 360.
This does not sound healthy for a new product sneaking up to the sales peak. If we put together the console sales to the famous Xbox family, it seems that less people are buying Xbox consoles.
Maybe they buy other consoles instead, maybe they switch to PC, mobile or deer hunting (doesn't matter).
Xbox doesn't seem to grow and that's the news they try to hide. Correct me if I'm wrong.

That's fair but I think the wording of their release was pretty tame. It may not have outright stated the situation at hand but the reality is easily deduced from what they said. This is relatively tame as far as PR is concerned and doesn't really seem particularly objectionable to me.

Not quite Rex, a combination of 360 decline and decline in Xbox One revenue.

Hmm fair enough I missed that line.

But it is indicative of something that should be worrying for MS imho.

A lower margin would be expected, as in having to be priced competitively they certainly make less margin on a XB1 sold than a 360.
But here we are talking revenue loss, which the XB1s sold cannot offset. It means that they are not converting those diminishing X360 sold into XB1 sold -and the XB1s are more expensive than the 360s at this time, which means they don't have to sell as many units to offset the revenue lost-.

Whether that benefits directly the PS4, another gaming system, or being related to people leaving gaming behind, is another matter.

To be clear I never argued that it wasn't a worrying situation for MS but I do feel like their statement was a perfectly reasonable one that accurately described the situation to a degree where the facts were easily discernible. There was little in the way of spin present.

Xbox Live is a lot more than just people using their XB1.

I really wish we could get an official declaration of what accounts are included in these figures. It would clear up a lot of the confusion but then again I guess that defeats the point of using these figures in the first place.

 

[slavesnyder]

Bolded above. If you didn't mean it like that, apologies.

The userbase grows of course. But not the sales year on year it seems. It's still a sales thread, not a MAU thread.
Sorry for the misunderstanding.we kept polite, so that's fine with me.

 

[Raist]

I really wish we could get an official declaration of what accounts are included in these figures. It would clear up a lot of the confusion but then again I guess that defeats the point of using these figures in the first place.

Anything that used Xbox Live at least once in the past month. It's pretty straightforward.

 

[RexNovis]

Anything that used Xbox Live at least once in the past month. It's pretty straightforward.

Until we get an official statement clarifying exactly what platforms are counted there will be debate and confusion around it no matter how obvious or straightforward you or I might feel it is.

 

[Tfault]

Until we get an official statement clarifying exactly what platforms are counted there will be debate and confusion around it no matter how obvious or straightforward you or I might feel it is.

The original statement by Microsoft on why they were changing to MAU was

The addition of Xbox Live active users demonstrates the opportunity that we see to extend our gaming assets beyond the living room to PCs, tablets, phones and other form factors with Windows 10 and is more aligned to our long-term opportunity.

This would suggest it's measured across all Windows platforms?

 

[CosmicQueso]

Well I mean they sold more XB1s during the holidays this year than last year and yet hardware revenue still declined thanks to another sharp decline in 360s sold. Seems reasonable to me. It pretty much accurately sums up the situation: profits from XB1 HW increases were not enough to offset the 360revenue declines.

Exactly.

This is precisely what is happening in the financials. And that's all a financial report like this should do. Describe the exact what is happening.

Revenue declined because Xbox 360 declines weren't offset by growth in Xbox One.

The why things are happening? That's really not proper for a financial report. There are many factors that could cause what is happening. And speculating on those things should be done outside of the statement of actual known fact (the change in sales). This can be done in supplemental commentary by leadership, questions during an earnings call, etc.

There's no hiding anything here, from a corporate language perspective.

How can Xbox not be growing when it's had the most users online ever on the 28th? I don't get peoples logic.

Don't confuse a comparison of sales in one period versus another period with the aggregation of those sales over time. An installed base always grow, but it can grow at a slower rate from one time period to the next.

 

[Raist]

Until we get an official statement clarifying exactly what platforms are counted there will be debate and confusion around it no matter how obvious or straightforward you or I might feel it is.

Why on earth would MS exclude non-xbox users of Xbox live, when they've been pushing for that level of integration for years, again recently with Windows 10?

 

[Three]

Well I mean they sold more XB1s during the holidays this year than last year and yet hardware revenue still declined thanks to another sharp decline in 360s sold. Seems reasonable to me. It pretty much accurately sums up the situation: profits from XB1 HW increases were not enough to offset the 360revenue declines.

It's worth pointing out that there was a decline in hardware revenue this year even if the 360 were excluded. There was a decrease in revenue for XB1 hardware, not an increase that can offset 360 declines. I agree that it is still very reasonable to point out that this was driven by a 360 decline if that was the main driver.

 

[RexNovis]

Exactly.

This is precisely what is happening in the financials. And that's all a financial report like this should do. Describe the exact what is happening.

Revenue declined because Xbox 360 declines weren't offset by growth in Xbox One.

The why things are happening? That's really not proper for a financial report. There are many factors that could cause what is happening. And speculating on those things should be done outside of the statement of actual known fact (the change in sales). This can be done in supplemental commentary by leadership, questions during an earnings call, etc.

Hmm yea ok I see your point. It's sorta like "leading the witness" in the court of law except instead of a witness its investors and instead of a lawyer it's reporting parties for a publicly traded company.

I guess my question would be is this sort of statement really all that uncommon in investor briefings then? I feel like, despite being a bit dubious, it's pretty par for the course. In fact, I distinctly remember similar commentary being made by Samsung in regards to drop in revenue relating to declining sales for their previous Galaxy model phones during a quarterly call a couple years back. I'll see if I can track it down. My point being that it seems to me that primary driving factors are often cited as explanation for decreases in revenue to investors during financial briefs. Maybe I'm wrong though and it's not as common as I thought.

There's no hiding anything here, from a corporate language perspective.

Wait I'm confused so are you agreeing that this isn't objectionable then or are you saying its objectionable but not particularly difficult to see through?