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[SmokedMeat]

What need does anyone have for a Wii U if they already own an Xbox 360 and/or PS3? Not everyone buys every system out there, and U offers nothing worthwhile with that hefty $350 price tag.
Given how careless Nintendo was about the U's health and anemic launch window it deserves to be getting steamrolled.

 

[daycru]

What were the first few months of Virtual Boy, N64, and Cube like?

 

[prwxv3]

Nintendo should have invested in more studios years ago to make more games for the WiiU. HD games take longer to make and you need more studios to cover gaps. Thats what Sony did and that saved their asses after the horrible PS3 launch. Nintendo has a absurd war chest they should have used it to get them ready for the transition.

 

[Wickerbasket]

nope, just debunking a Nintendo stock related quote, Sony just for the lulz.

What were you debunking? That the stock is down 80% instead of 85% since 2008?

 

[ascii42]

Why? It's too late in the generation for any of tha to matter now.

Momentum? Perhaps. Not that that means anything with the two systems so close.

 

[luxarific]

I hope you really enjoyed your Dead Space 3, America. I hope it went down A REAL TREAT. Chances are you won't get another one whereas my dreams of a glorious Rising 2 live on! THROUGH THIS ARM.

I did actually. I'm hoping 600k+ is enough for a next gen sequel, but I guess we'll see.

 

[Meelow]

What need does anyone have for a Wii U if they already own an Xbox 360 and/or PS3? Not everyone buys every system out there, and U offers nothing worthwhile with that hefty $350 price tag.
Given how careless Nintendo was about the U's health and anemic launch window it deserves to be getting steamrolled.

...Exclusive games.

If the Wii U was just a third party machine and had very little exclusives than nobody would care about it.

I'm not going to stand around and try to defend the Wii U but IMO it's a great machine and gets too much hate.

Nintendo is to blame as well for this though.

 

[farnham]

Nintendo should have invested in more studios years ago to make more games for the WiiU. HD games take longer to make and you need more studios to cover gaps. Thats what Sony did and that saved their asses after the horrible PS3 launch. Nintendo has a absurd war chest they should have used it to get them ready for the transition.

i totally agree and I think thats the main reason iwata needs to get fired asap. buying studios like next level games, monster games that work with you closely already so that they dont go away like factor 5 and silicon knights did. buying publishers that were not sustainable anymore (THQ, Eidos, Midway etc.). they could have done so much.

 

[CouldBeWorse]

What were you debunking? That the stock is down 80% instead of 85% since 2008?

And it's 85+% from the peak, just not an arbitrary starting point 5 years ago to the day.

 

[Wickerbasket]

And it's 85+% from the peak, just not an arbitrary starting point 5 years ago to the day.

It was subhero that posted the graph showing it was down 80%, and that was who I was replying to.

It's not good in either case.

 

[chubigans]

I'm happy for those U sales. This year is going to be extraordinary in terms of first party titles

 

[EagleEyes]

Sound like the PS3 is getting more and more close to the 360 with each month, Microsoft should be very afraid imo.

Thats just laughable. It gets within 40K one month and now Microsoft should be very afraid. The 360 just destroyed the PS3 over the 2 holiday months by over a million units. Its up to almost a 15 million lead here in NA. I dont think Microsoft is worried about anything here.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

production yes. I meant the people that design the consoles themselves and the peripherals.

That won't be a very large team. Less than 500 but hardware drives a lot of revenue.

If Nintendo give out separate hardware/software revenue you will see that the hardware side accounts for a lot of it.

 

[NEO0MJ]

Considering that most of the units sold were deluxe, i wonder of Nintendo regrets cheapening on the tech, again.

 

[Jarmel]

Well good news everybody, of those 66k, 70 percent were deluxe consoles. Wii U is saved.

 

[Bisnic]

...Exclusive games.

If the Wii U was just a third party machine and had very little exclusives than nobody would care about it.

And those exclusive games are kinda lacking right now, so yeah... that's why nobody care about it.

 

[CouldBeWorse]

It was subhero that posted the graph showing it was down 80%, and that was who I was replying to.

It's not good in either case.

I'm agreeing with you. And I thought he was agreeing with me by posting the graph. I'm not sure who or what was being debunked?

The original post was a reply to that crazy Pro-Nintendo anti-Sony list where Sony's stock price was listed as a negative (which it is, of course) with zero context that Nintendo's stock price was on the same trend.

 

[Taurus]

http://i.imgur.com/2jvHHm2.png

I think he meant that with how Wii U is currently selling, Nintendo will put out great titles to fix that situation later this year.

He is happy because Wii U sales are bad. And it is deserved (the Wii U sales I mean).

 

[1st Course]

Thats just laughable. It gets within 40K one month and now Microsoft should be very afraid. The 360 just destroyed the PS3 over the 2 holiday months by over a million units. Its up to almost a 15 million lead here in NA. I dont think Microsoft is worried about anything here.

This is exactly why they should be afraid. The 360 used to outsell the PS3 with a 2:1 factor back then, this is no longer the case anymore. It shows that Sony do have a good chance of overtaking the Xbox brand in the US next gen.

 

[farnham]

That won't be a very large team. Less than 500 but hardware drives a lot of revenue.

If Nintendo give out separate hardware/software revenue you will see that the hardware side accounts for a lot of it.

well nintendo is a very small company only looking at their manpower. they could pay salary for more people and that would help them to produce more games.

 

[Taurus]

This is exactly why they should be afraid. The 360 used to outsell the PS3 with a 2:1 factor back then, this is no longer the case anymore. It shows that Sony do have a good chance of overtaking the Xbox brand in the US next gen.

Pachter, is that you?

 

[AzaK]

I honestly believe that wouldn't have made a single bit of difference. They let 2 years go by without any kind of significance support to keep momentum going from one platform to the next, at least enough so that the Wii brand lost whatever clout it had.

Yup, if Wii was pumping along and exciting right up until Wii U thing would have been different. Nintendo has mismanaged this transition and the Wii brand so monumentally badly it is like they have just joined the console space.

 

[ascii42]

This is exactly why they should be afraid. The 360 used to outsell the PS3 with a 2:1 factor back then, this is no longer the case anymore. It shows that Sony do have a good chance of overtaking the Xbox brand in the US next gen.

 

[Majmun]

Thats just laughable. It gets within 40K one month and now Microsoft should be very afraid. The 360 just destroyed the PS3 over the 2 holiday months by over a million units. Its up to almost a 15 million lead here in NA. I dont think Microsoft is worried about anything here.

I don't think Sony was worried with the Ps2 either. And the Ps2's lead over the original Xbox was more dramatic.

The US market doesn't mind to switch. Sony could overtake the US market again. I don't see why not.

 

[Nirolak]

Yup, if Wii was pumping along and exciting right up until Wii U thing would have been different. Nintendo has mismanaged this transition and the Wii brand so monumentally badly it is like they have just joined the console space.

This is why I never understand the argument "Why release a new console? The old one is still selling!"

You don't want everyone to think your platform is an ancient hunk of junk no one wants before you launch the next one.

 

[PhatSaqs]

This is exactly why they should be afraid. The 360 used to outsell the PS3 with a 2:1 factor back then, this is no longer the case anymore. It shows that Sony do have a good chance of overtaking the Xbox brand in the US next gen.

And back in 08 the PS3 outsold the 360 in the US for several months. I guess that showed the same things eh?

 

[EagleEyes]

This is exactly why they should be afraid. The 360 used to outsell the PS3 with a 2:1 factor back then, this is no longer the case anymore. It shows that Sony do have a good chance of overtaking the Xbox brand in the US next gen.

During regular months the 360 never sells at a 2:1 ratio over the PS3. Go back a few years ago and the PS3 was within 10 to 20K every non holiday month here in the states.

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

Do we have any numbers for Europe? Is slightly over one mil disappointing to EA for Dead Space?

Obviously that Crysis number is.

 

[Father_Brain]

Wii U's current performance is the result of all of NCL's Japan-centric, penny-pinching, and Not Invented Here decisions during the Wii era. They deserve a wake-up call, but their corporate culture might prevent them from hearing it even if Iwata is indeed ousted.

 

[alphaNoid]

This is exactly why they should be afraid. The 360 used to outsell the PS3 with a 2:1 factor back then, this is no longer the case anymore. It shows that Sony do have a good chance of overtaking the Xbox brand in the US next gen.

What? lol.. Throughout most all of last year and the year prior the 360 did not double monthly sales of the PS3. They sold a lot more, but not double. The holiday months are the exception where MS wiped the floor with Sony.

These sales figures from this month are very much the same as they were last year etc.. Settle down, MS got NA on lock (for now).

 

[Deku Tree]

Hey Nintendo: Release Pikmin 3 ASAP !!!

 

[seattle6418]

I´m not sure why so much surprise. The market is usually fair. Despite the half dozen fans for these titles, DMC sucks, the Rising demo showed a lot of MGS fans that it had nothing to do with MGS, meaning you didn´t need to buy the crappy hack and slash game, and Crysis, at best, is a derivative and generic shooter whose only quality are the GFX, displayed only on PC, and only on huge hardcore gaming rigs.

Of course those games will bomb. Good games still sell, it´s not a mistery.

And also, people are tired of this gen. It´s like people in this thread have never went through a generation shift. PS4 and Durango will be more than fine, and they will sell out in the holidays. Industry crash my ass, just because Nintendo released a system that nobody wanted it doesn´t mean the industry is broken.

There are problem with cost of development and other forms of gaming (phones, tablets), but Industry collapsing has nothing to do with the WiiU failure.

Vita and 3DS are a different beast, and both are suffering IMO, because of the cost of their games. 30-40 bucks for portable games is just not sustainable. Now that people can get portable experiences for 99 cents, or for a couple of dollars, those 40 dollar portable games are just absurd, no matter how AAA or AAAA they are. And the Vita suffers yet more due to the ridiculous prices on accessories.

Well, most people will be very mad for me calling those games trash, but it is what it is.

 

[Nirolak]

Do we have any numbers for Europe? Is slightly over one mil disappointing to EA for Dead Space?

Obviously that Crysis number is.

Well, codecow is bother to brag about it on twitter at least: https://twitter.com/codecow/status/312593834049675264

 

[lamaroo]

Not trying to add to all the doom and gloom, but it's absurd how much Nintendo mismanaged the Wii U launch. Resting on their laurels(sticking with the Wii brand even though it was all but dead at the time of launch), terrible marketing, and bad management concerning their game development.

Get rid of two skus, it's obvious people only want one, and offer it for $299. The question is do people care if Nintendoland is included or not, or will they buy the deluxe, minus that game, at $299.

 

[Currygan]

Haha, splendid.

the fact he misunderstood my post? Splendid indeed

 

[synce]

Seeing MGR tank almost makes me think that gamers really can still pick them (terrible camera, terrible pacing, terrible length)... and then I see DS3 is #1 and somehow the Aliens game is up there too :/

 

[Schnozberry]

Wii U's current performance is the result of all of NCL's Japan-centric, penny-pinching, and Not Invented Here decisions during the Wii era. They deserve a wake-up call, but their corporate culture might prevent them from hearing it even if Iwata is indeed ousted.

Occam's Razor tells us the conclusion that requires the fewest assumptions is probably the most likely one. Perhaps the fact that the system has very few compelling software titles and poor marketing might have something to do with it, no?

You can say all you want about Iwata and Nintendo collectively wiping their ass with Americans and their silly innovations, but it seems far more likely that they launched too early in an attempt to get a head start on their competition, and just didn't have the software ready to go. Saying that Nintendo or Iwata have some kind of vendetta against western game design and ideas is kind of blown up when you realize how many of their core franchises they've been involving western developers with. Have you read many Iwata Asks?

 

[BassForever]

What need does anyone have for a Wii U if they already own an Xbox 360 and/or PS3? Not everyone buys every system out there, and U offers nothing worthwhile with that hefty $350 price tag.
Given how careless Nintendo was about the U's health and anemic launch window it deserves to be getting steamrolled.

Nothing right now, eventually it'll be the same reason people here own/ed a Wii/3DS/DS, those Nintendo first party titles.

 

[Clear]

These sales figures from this month are very much the same as they were last year etc.. Settle down, MS got NA on lock (for now).

True, but its just a certain that a mere 10k/wk advantage is not nearly enough to make up for the shortfall outside the NA market and ensuring they are heading into the next generation with less global momentum than Sony.

Both 360 and PS3 are not done yet too. Even with new flagship devices entering the market they both have at least one, if not two holiday seasons in the primary markets to round off their sales totals.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Hey Nintendo: Release Pikmin 3 ASAP !!!

Since when has Pikmin been a system seller? I don't see it changing anything. This system is dead until Nintendo throws another Mario Kart out in November, plus a price cut. And even that won't matter in the long term due to the PS4/New Xbox.

Nintendo had a perfect window of time to own the next gen by releasing some big games, introducing a solid online system, etc. instead they essentially released an Xbox 360 without Live. If Nintendo can't buy exclusives and release first party titles on a decent pace this race is over. And considering Nintendo didn't acquire enough studios to do what Sony does in terms of constantly pumping out exclusive titles I see no reason for optimism.

Some people will buy a WiiU to play 1-2 first party titles a year, but overall that's not a good business strategy as we saw with the GameCube and the Wii's final years.

 

[VanMardigan]

For me, it's price. The Wii U should be right up my wheelhouse: I have a young daughter and I love Nintendo games. I'm not even a hardcore gamer anymore so the drought wouldn't even bother me, I haven't bought a retail game in over a year.

But $350 is simply not a good deal in my mind. The tech doesn't justify it, the software doesn't justify it. I just hope they drop the price by my daughter's bday in July, otherwise it may be too late for Nintendo in my household with the Ps4 and 720.

 

[Replicant]

It also needed a demo with a better tutorial...the demo was hard as hell,at least they didn't hide that,but the tutorial sucked and probably a lot of people went the hell with this game,it's too hard and they didn't buy it...

I was definitely confused with the blade implementation/control using the right hand stick. I don't like how it works. That, the so-so graphic, and the fact that I didn't have much money pretty much lead to the decision that I don't need the game at the moment.

 

[velvet_nitemare]

Out of curiosity, did Nintendo invite input from western devs when they were designing the Wii U?

 

[AzaK]

What need does anyone have for a Wii U if they already own an Xbox 360 and/or PS3? Not everyone buys every system out there, and U offers nothing worthwhile with that hefty $350 price tag.
Given how careless Nintendo was about the U's health and anemic launch window it deserves to be getting steamrolled.

Pretty much. Nintendo hasn't shown the machine's prowess to get people excited. Ports are old and expensive. Most multiplats still arent coming. It's pricier than other machines (moreso if you want a HDD), nothing really shouting 'must have' about the GamePad although I love it. No marketing and no decent first parties. Nothing. A wasteland. Dead. Silent.

Out of curiosity, did Nintendo invite input from western devs when they were designing the Wii U?

If they did they picked the wrong ones

 

[seattle6418]

A "NFS: Most Wanted jump" likely isn't a sufficient upgrade to upgrade. This hardware means nothing, graphics mean nothing mantra that's continually repeated rings hollow.

Consumers would not have bought the PS1 if it wasn't an upgrade from the SNES.
Consumers would not have bought the PS2 if it wasn't an upgrade from the PS1.
Consumers would not have bought the PS3/360 if it wasn't an upgrade from the PS2.

Every generational transition in recent history has been sold on the promise of greater hardware power delivering new games not possible before, with the exception of one - the Wii. To deny that is folly.

The Wii stands out as an anomaly. A market disruptor, that hasn't been repeated.

Regarding, the EDIT: underlined, that's essentially what I just said. Except that isn't it's "current state" that's fundamentally what the system is except later it will have more Nintendo games.

There isn't any incentive for someone who owns a PS3 or 360 to make a generational transition to the Wii U - there isn't a discernible upgrade; and I can't see what Nintendo intend to do or even can do that will change that.

Reading some older pages and i came across this, it´s exactly how i feel. The Wii was an anomaly, needs to be studied, and probably a one hit only type of event.

Every other generation shift was based on powerfull hardware, and with PS4/Durango it will be just like this. Only possible bump on the road is with the theory of diminishing returns and early software not looking leaps and bounds better than current gen, but i still don´t think it will be the case.

 

[Saint Gregory]

Occam's Razor tells us the conclusion that requires the fewest assumptions is probably the most likely one. Perhaps the fact that the system has very few compelling software titles and poor marketing might have something to do with it, no?

You can say all you want about Iwata and Nintendo collectively wiping their ass with Americans and their silly innovations, but it seems far more likely that they launched too early in an attempt to get a head start on their competition, and just didn't have the software ready to go. Saying that Nintendo or Iwata have some kind of vendetta against western game design and ideas is kind of blown up when you realize how many of their core franchises they've been involving western developers with. Have you read many Iwata Asks?

I don't think that you can ignore the idea that many Wii customers felt burned by their Wii purchase and are now a bit wary of the successor. There was a year during the height of the Wii craze (2008 I think) where Nintendo seemed to be content selling the console on Wii Sports alone and didn't think it was important to release new software as long as the console was still selling at record breaking speed.

You can't treat customers like you don't care what they do with your console once it's in their homes and then expect them to just trust you again and dive in head first to their next system. Nintendo is reaping what they sowed unfortunately.

 

[Father_Brain]

Occam's Razor tells us the conclusion that requires the fewest assumptions is probably the most likely one. Perhaps the fact that the system has very few compelling software titles and poor marketing might have something to do with it, no?

You can say all you want about Iwata and Nintendo collectively wiping their ass with Americans and their silly innovations, but it seems far more likely that they launched too early in an attempt to get a head start on their competition, and just didn't have the software ready to go. Saying that Nintendo or Iwata have some kind of vendetta against western game design and ideas is kind of blown up when you realize how many of their core franchises they've been involving western developers with. Have you read many Iwata Asks?

Regarding the first point, you're seeing a difference of opinion where I'm not sure one exists. The lack of compelling software titles directly results from Nintendo's failure to significantly expand first-party development back when Wii U was entering its early R&D phases around 2009 or so (penny-pinching and Japan-centrism, concerning Western investment).

Re: Japan-centrism, it's not that Nintendo isn't willing to work with Western developers; it's that, since early in the Wii era, they haven't been willing to work with them on titles targeted at a different audience from their traditional first-party output. You can't expect COD and other demographically similar multiplatform titles to sell when a slow-paced, permadeath survival horror game is the closest thing you have to an AAA exclusive aimed at that demographic.

 

[Acquiescence]

If Crysis 3 could only do 260K then that reflects badly on everything else below it that came out last month, especially Aliens and MGR. That EA tweet wasn't off the mark after all.

 

[Pociask]

I think he means Nintendo is forced to get some games finished quick.

however that can be a double edged sword. they may get out unfinished games (much like the unfinished OS of wiiU) that play horribly.

I think the only solution for them is to grow substantially in manpower. Nintendo has had a revenue of 1000 billion yen (about 10 billion dollars) in 2010 with only 4700 employees (in 2011 they only had 650 billion yen of revenue with about the same number of employees). In comparison EA had a 4 Billion Dollar revenue with 9000 employees, Ubisoft had a 1,3 Billion Dollar revenue with 7000 Employees, activisionblizzard had a 5 billion dollar revenue with 7000 Employees

If they manage to double their output of games by having a workforce similar to EA that may not mean that they can double their revenue but they may have a much better release date and strenghten the argument to buy their software and thus hardware.

Holy crap. I've argued for a long time that Nintendo should have expanded a long time ago, but that really puts it in stark relief. Those other major publishers also only (!) have a goal of publishing profitable video games. Nintendo has a goal of doing that and supporting two different hardware lines, which means you NEED consistent releases. And yet they have a workforce that's half to 2/3 the size of the largest third-party publishers ( who don't have to employ anyone to come up with new hardware)? It's madness.

Also, that stat about 70+% of Wii U hardware sales being the deluxe makes me think something has gone wrong for Nintendo. It would suggest that the Deluxe is producing such an obvious value added that the Standard pack is either a) too lacking or b) too expensive to stand on its own. I don't know, maybe they want to sell just Deluxes.

 

[Aquamarine]

Holy crap. I've argued for a long time that Nintendo should have expanded a long time ago, but that really puts it in stark relief. Those other major publishers also only (!) have a goal of publishing profitable video games. Nintendo has a goal of doing that and supporting two different hardware lines, which means you NEED consistent releases. And yet they have a workforce that's half to 2/3 the size of the largest third-party publishers ( who don't have to employ anyone to come up with new hardware)? It's madness.

Also, that stat about 70+% of Wii U hardware sales being the deluxe makes me think something has gone wrong for Nintendo. It would suggest that the Deluxe is producing such an obvious value added that the Standard pack is either a) too lacking or b) too expensive to stand on its own. I don't know, maybe they want to sell just Deluxes.

Remember, Nintendo has subsidiaries all over the world. Their subsidiaries handle marketing + distribution + localization. Not to mention Nintendo's internal packaging factories, their hardware R&D and certification centers, etc.

While hardware management takes up a LOT of Nintendo's workforce, they have a LOT of overhead to take into consideration.

Reading some older pages and i came across this, it´s exactly how i feel. The Wii was an anomaly, needs to be studied, and probably a one hit only type of event.

Every other generation shift was based on powerfull hardware, and with PS4/Durango it will be just like this. Only possible bump on the road is with the theory of diminishing returns and early software not looking leaps and bounds better than current gen, but i still don´t think it will be the case.

The Wii was the quintessential nation-wide fad / craze that swept the USA. Everyone talked about it; everyone just "had" to have one. It's often likened to "capturing lightning in a bottle,"...I don't think that analogy could be any more apt.

The GameCube is a more realistic sales estimate if the Wii hadn't captured the imagination of the public. Nintendo can reliably squeeze out around 20 million in hardware sales on the strength of their IP alone.