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[Gaborn]

I thought the 360 was successful in every way hardware and software sales?
You're telling EA the biggest publisher in the videogame industry can't make more money on the 360 than the PS3?
Now that's interesting since people in this thread are telling us how bad software is selling on the PS3.

Actually that's a couple of different issues. First, factually speaking the data you provided showed that the 360 DID actually make more net revenue from 360 sales than PS3 sales. Just thought that was worth noting.

Second of all though, that by itself doesn't mean that the HD systems are generally a profitable venture for EA, that's true of the 360 and that's true of the PS3. They're both much more expensive to develop for than the Wii and neither is currently as healthy as the Wii to develop for (though it's entirely possible certain games on either HD platform would sell better on them than they would on the Wii). So, bottom line EA clearly was unhappy with that revenue mix with the HD platforms on top and have redirected their efforts towards the Wii. You can draw your own conclusion as to whether that speaks well of the PS3/360.

 

[Yes Boss!]

I think that Wii Music will keep selling and selling just because people will discover it in so many "strange" ways

I believe this too. The game is remarkably complex despite what GAF might portray it as, and consequently will continue to sell over the next few years. I don't have the exact numbers but it should be nearing 3 million worldwide and will probably reach 5 million by the end of 2009.

 

[kinggroin]

PS3 could only manage ONE game in the top 20 in sales for the month?

ONE?

REALLY?

WTF is up, PS3 owners.

My guess (and has been since we started noticing the shitty software trend), is that quite a bit of these PS3 owners, aren't really gamers the way we know 'em. Remember, it does have another redeeming quality that makes it worth owning

 

[markatisu]

My guess (and has been since we started noticing the shitty software trend), is that quite a bit of these PS3 owners, aren't really gamers the way we know 'em. Remember, it does have another redeeming quality that makes it worth owning

Or they just have games that do not appeal to PS3 owners, I am a semi-hardcore gamer and only own 3 games for the PS3 (MG4, Uncharted, and Mortal Kombat vs DC)

Sadly I do use it much more for its Blu-Ray and media playback then games, which is a stark contrast from how I used the PS2.

 

[Joe211]

Actually that's a couple of different issues. First, factually speaking the data you provided showed that the 360 DID actually make more net revenue from 360 sales than PS3 sales. Just thought that was worth noting.

Second of all though, that by itself doesn't mean that the HD systems are generally a profitable venture for EA, that's true of the 360 and that's true of the PS3. They're both much more expensive to develop for than the Wii and neither is currently as healthy as the Wii to develop for (though it's entirely possible certain games on either HD platform would sell better on them than they would on the Wii). So, bottom line EA clearly was unhappy with that revenue mix with the HD platforms on top and have redirected their efforts towards the Wii. You can draw your own conclusion as to whether that speaks well of the PS3/360.

If you consider the install base there's nothing to rejoice about this.

Platform Net Revenue Mix (as a % of Net Revenue)
360 16%
PS3 13%

 

[dolemite]

Or they just have games that do not appeal to PS3 owners, I am a semi-hardcore gamer and only own 3 games for the PS3 (MG4, Uncharted, and Mortal Kombat vs DC)

Sadly I do use it much more for its Blu-Ray and media playback then games, which is a stark contrast from how I used the PS2.

Same here: I only have MGS4, Heavenly Sword, and Hot Shots Golf. I do receive all my netflix movies on Blu Ray though

 

[BorkBork]

1.) Wii Music sales = wildly profitable
2.) Wii Music sales compared to other games = success
3.) Wii Music sales expectation from Nintendo = disappointment

There's nothing to argue about. Nintendo seems intent on changing #3. We'll see if it will work in the following months.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Sony Squad?
Grow up kid




http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=351161


It seems EA manage to make money on the PS3 so I don't know what you and DeaconKnowledge are talking about

EA = One Pubilsher not to mention that all of their premiere games of that quarter (Madden especially) were on the PS3. Not to mention most EA games that were PS3/360 multiplats performed mediocrely (Dead Space and Mirror's Edge). But I can't ignore that this does significant damage to my point. So I guess it would be best for me to wait for the coming trends of the next few months before I continue on.

Most PS3 budgets are shared with the 360 release, or may even be considered as just a "port" budget. That's up to the publisher.

How does this counter the fact that the PS3 versions are selling terribly?

Expectations that we don't know, most likely. Publishers are well aware of how sales trends are going.

Expectations obviously over sub-100k.

I'll try.

The question i'm asking here ultimately is "are PS3 owners buying the games?"

The PS3 right now has one major established problem; people aren't buying PS3s. This we know already. What we don't know is how diverse the PS3 gamers' tastes are. Basically, are PS3 owners content to buy 1 or 2 games, or do they typically buy a selection of games for the console?

If we saw a hypothetical "top 100" and CoDWaW was one of six titles in the entire top 100, we could say empirically "the PS3 isn't selling to the userbase (read: PS3 owners). On the contrary, if we saw a more appreciable number of titles in the top 100, we could assert that what PS3 owners there are are supporting the console. It's not GOOD support as the numbers are clearly deficient, but it is better in comparison to the alternative, which is Ps3 owners not buying games for the console that they own.

Or to put it another way:

The console sells like shit, but at least PS3 owners are buying software for it.

I see where you are going but software is selling really really bad even for the userbase. Regardless of how one spins it the console has sold over 7 million copies and the 360 and Wii didn't have a problem getting more then one piece software over 100k during those moments.

Maybe I'm pushing too far because as Joe2011 showed at least one publisher way pulling in revenue for the quarter. All I'm trying to say as that whether it is that they aren't buying any software or just very little software the end result is still very bad. The Gamecube owners brought very little third party software as support for the console and look how that turned out.

That hardly matters. If I release a game and make $10 million in profit from one version and $2 million from another, I'm going to keep making both versions, aren't I?

Again what does this have to do with anything? PS3 software is selling terrible and is on a downward trend, exclusive PS3 support has all but disappeared, and if things keep going the way they are it would be better if publishers would focus on one console or use the resources to port the game to a more software friendly system (the Wii) then the PS3. It's the same reason why the PSP multiplats of PS2 and Wii games were common in a matter of 2 years ago and have stopped despite PS2 versions of these games still being made. There comes a point where it doesn't even matter anymore.

As I said above, if PS3 games aren't worth it to publishers, we'll find out. It could be the case, sure. But you're calling a horse dead when all you know is that it runs slowly.

I admit you have a point but when nearly every recent NPD there is only one game in the Top 20 well that is a supporting indication that that slow horse is moving slow because of pneumonia.

It disproves your point when it does. This sort of software doesn't stop selling, not completely. Nintendo has proven that time and again. Considering some of their recent deals getting Wii Music in schools in various places throughout the States, I think it has a strong chance of growing 'by waggle-of-hand' and becoming a pretty huge deal.

It didn't get the acclaim some of the others have received because it's doing something entirely new, something innovative, in which the true score of how you've done is your own opinion. People, especially gamers, find this troublesome: We're accustomed to some kind of arbitrary guide of our skill and progress, not to mention Wii Music requires more time to truly understand and appreciate.

In other words, I think it's far too early to assess its impact. My opinion is, it's simply performing differently from the rest of the evergreen pack. Not worse necessarily, just differently.

Wii Music bombed because it just wasn't a good idea. When you have titles like Rock Band and Guitar Hero World Tour being all the range a subpar music game isn't the best idea. Wii Sports made it big because of the motion controls and while it was simple and obviously flawed that's sorta what made it so fun. Wii Play was similar as well as having a controller packed in with it. Wii Fit had the Balance Board and was a "lose weight" machine something that many people (especially Americans) see as an issue for themselves. Wii Music just didn't do anything for anybody.

So which game released last month were you expecting to sell more then 100k on PS3? Compared to 360 should about zero +-Skate2.

Besides Skate II, none really. But this is a trend that was seen even last December which was the blockbuster software sales month.

 

[Gaborn]

If you consider the install base there's nothing to rejoice about this.

Who's rejoicing? I'm just correcting your factual error.

 

[Version 3.0]

Again what does this have to do with anything? PS3 software is selling terrible and is on a downward trend, exclusive PS3 support has all but disappeared, and if things keep going the way they are it would be better if publishers would focus on one console or use the resources to port the game to a more software friendly system (the Wii) then the PS3. It's the same reason why the PSP multiplats of PS2 and Wii games were common in a matter of 2 years ago and have stopped despite PS2 versions of these games still being made. There comes a point where it doesn't even matter anymore.

Exclusive PS3 support had already dried up, in part due to poor PS3 sales, but also because of high development costs in general. I'll say again: I'm not disputing that the PS3 might be on its way out, I'm simply saying that the minimal data we have doesn't prove it. It's far more likely that it's still viable (if only barely) and will stumble through the rest of this gen in the shadow of its competition, much as the Gamecube did last gen.

Expectations obviously over sub-100k.

That's infantile. By that standard, hundreds of games failed and 10 succeeded--5 of which were from Nintendo. Like I said, only 10 games can be in the top 10. The criteria you're applying would mean the industry as a whole is dead, not just the PS3.

 

[Talamius]

Just as ancedotal evidence, my PS3 gets a ton of use. However, it's usually to stream video from Netflix or Hulu via PlayOn, or downloadable games from PSN. I own very few retail games (though I am picking up SF4 this coming up week). I'm pretty sure I'm not alone on this front.

As a central media player in the living room, the PS3 is a great deal. As a dedicated games machine? Probably overpriced. I think this shows up in the software charts too.

 

[bj00rn_]

Who's rejoicing? I'm just correcting your factual error.

And you should also correct him on the direct comparison on install base. There is no logic in direct comparison (Unless you're EA) unless the total volume sales are linearly the same and with the same software titles available. If Gears of War 2 sells one gazillion, especially f.ex. when Dead Space is competing for the dollars at the same time, EA will have less potential sales - On that platform.

 

[Yes Boss!]

So, Wii likely surpasses the HD Twins next month in worldwide installed base? Is that reasonable?

 

[Fuzzy]

So, Wii likely surpasses the HD Twins next month in worldwide installed base? Is that reasonable?

No. It's an estimated 800K behind and only outsold them by an estimated 300K last month.

 

[a Master Ninja]

My guess (and has been since we started noticing the shitty software trend), is that quite a bit of these PS3 owners, aren't really gamers the way we know 'em. Remember, it does have another redeeming quality that makes it worth owning

I don't want to see the PS3 become like the PSP.

 

[Yes Boss!]

No. It's an estimated 800K behind and only outsold them by an estimated 300K last month.

Seems like they should be able to cover that 800K next month. Just curious as a lot of people did not think it would happen till second quarter but the 360 and PS3 will likely have a slow february while the Wii will continue to sell extremely well.

 

[Fuzzy]

Seems like they should be able to cover that 800K next month. Just curious as a lot of people did not think it would happen till second quarter since the 360 and PS3 will likely have a slow february.

From the chart.

Wii YTD: 1.4 million
360 YTD: 0.6 million
PS3 YTD: 0.5 million

That makes it 300K in one month with it still being behind 800K. It won't do it next month. Unless the 360/PS3 dies in Europe it'll take a while longer.

 

[Starchasing]

Wii Sports made it big because of the motion controls

Wii Play was similar as well as having a controller packed in

Wii Fit had the Balance Board and was a "lose weight"

You seem to not have a clue. All those 3 games are outstanding piece of software. The fact that you just dont get it doesnt change it

 

[Yes Boss!]

From the chart.

Wii YTD: 1.4 million
360 YTD: 0.6 million
PS3 YTD: 0.5 million

That makes it 300K in one month with it still being behind 800K. It won't do it next month. Unless the 360/PS3 dies in Europe it'll take a while longer.

Ok, now I see it. Yeah, a couple of months away.

 

[watership]

I think Killzone 2 will perform a lot better than LBP. It just seems more suited to the PS3 audience.

It's also a FPS. Its a pretty clearly defined game that even a casual player understands. Something LBP was not.

 

[Yes Boss!]

It's also a FPS. Its a pretty clearly defined game that even a casual player understands. Something LBP was not.

I'm a casual FPS player and I'm pretty amped for Killzone 2...a lot like I was for Halo 3. Just playing it on single player and there have gotta be other folks out there like me.

 

[a Master Ninja]

You seem to not have a clue. All those 3 games are outstanding piece of software. The fact that you just dont get it doesnt change it

WiiPlay is not outstanding. It's 9 extra games for $10. It sells because of quantity not quality. It's an impulse buy because of perceived value, which I why I manage to sell at least a dozen of them a day to customers.

 

[Kilrogg]

WiiPlay is not outstanding. It's 9 extra games for $10. It sells because of quantity not quality. It's an impulse buy because of perceived value, which I why I manage to sell at least a dozen of them a day to customers.

Well, yes and no. Quantity and the fact that it's only $50 with a Wiimote certainly plays a big part, but it's outstanding for introductory purposes. Just as Wii Sports is great for showing what the Wiimote can do with its accelerometer in an accessible way for beginners, Wii Play is great as an introduction to pointer controls and for those who want a bit more of that Wii Sports flavour. There's a reason why it's called "Hajimete no Wii" (which could be translated as "My first Wii game" or "Starting with the Wii") in Japan. It's great for what it's supposed to do.

 

[Aaron Strife]

WiiPlay is not outstanding. It's 9 extra games for $10. It sells because of quantity not quality. It's an impulse buy because of perceived value, which I why I manage to sell at least a dozen of them a day to customers.

For a ten dollar game it's pretty awesome.

Especially the Duck Hunt remake.

 

[Yes Boss!]

Well, yes and no. Quantity and the fact that it's only $50 with a Wiimote certainly plays a big part, but it's outstanding for introductory purposes. Just as Wii Sports is great for showing what the Wiimote can do with its accelerometer in an accessible way for beginners, Wii Play is great as an introduction to pointer controls and for those who want a bit more of that Wii Sports flavour. There's a reason why it's called "Hajimete no Wii" (which could be translated as "My first Wii game" or "Starting with the Wii") in Japan. It's great for what it's supposed to do.

Yep, love the game. One of my favorites of the fifty Wii games I have. GAF completely missed the point of the game. And it is perfect to show how well the Wii works for local play.

 

[Linkup]

WiiPlay is not outstanding. It's 9 extra games for $10. It sells because of quantity not quality. It's an impulse buy because of perceived value, which I why I manage to sell at least a dozen of them a day to customers.

nothing you said refutes his statement

 

[Bizzyb]

Well, yes and no. Quantity and the fact that it's only $50 with a Wiimote certainly plays a big part, but it's outstanding for introductory purposes. Just as Wii Sports is great for showing what the Wiimote can do with its accelerometer in an accessible way for beginners, Wii Play is great as an introduction to pointer controls and for those who want a bit more of that Wii Sports flavour. There's a reason why it's called "Hajimete no Wii" (which could be translated as "My first Wii game" or "Starting with the Wii") in Japan. It's great for what it's supposed to do.

Too...much...logic!!!

 

[Sushen]

Just as ancedotal evidence, my PS3 gets a ton of use. However, it's usually to stream video from Netflix or Hulu via PlayOn, or downloadable games from PSN. I own very few retail games (though I am picking up SF4 this coming up week). I'm pretty sure I'm not alone on this front.

As a central media player in the living room, the PS3 is a great deal. As a dedicated games machine? Probably overpriced. I think this shows up in the software charts too.

I've had excellent use out of my PS3 watching bluray movies and playing Persona 3&4. Pretty much all my friends are on XBL, and I have no good reason to pick up ps3 version or 360 now. I have a feeling that I'm not alone in this regard. I would blame all these to Sony's marketing of PS3: it's beyond game machine.

 

[Kilrogg]

Yep, love the game. One of my favorites of the fifty Wii games I have. GAF completely missed the point of the game. And it is perfect to show how well the Wii works for local play.

Even if you don't play the game much, it doesn't take much standing back to understand its value and quality. I myself haven't played it in a looong while, same for Wii Sports, but still think they're very competent pieces of software. I have a few gripes about Wii Sports (mainly the controls in Golf and Boxing), but other than that... Wii Play's Duck Hunt remake is quite fun, as are the Find Mii and Tank games. Laser Hockey is fun, and good-looking in a simplistic way, but it's actually quite hard .

 

[kinggroin]

Or they just have games that do not appeal to PS3 owners, I am a semi-hardcore gamer and only own 3 games for the PS3 (MG4, Uncharted, and Mortal Kombat vs DC)

Sadly I do use it much more for its Blu-Ray and media playback then games, which is a stark contrast from how I used the PS2.

What else could PS3 owners possibly want from the thing? It shares almost the same library as the 360 and has it's own Sony exclusives. Taken on it's own, it's a damn fine gaming console imo. Just that many, MANY gamers here jumped on the next-gen wagon with the 360. Unfortunately for Sony, there isn't much to distinguish itself from Microsoft's white box; certainly not enough to pull folks away who've already invested in it as the primary console.

As for games playstation owners want, you can't be talking about stuff like SotC, because that didn't sell like gangbusters on the previous platform.

 

[Stumpokapow]

As for games playstation owners want, you can't be talking about stuff like SotC, because that didn't sell like gangbusters on the previous platform.

it did sell quite a few copies actually.

 

[milanbaros]

It's an impulse buy because of perceived value, which I why I manage to sell at least a dozen of them a day to customers.

Can you explain to me what the difference is between value and perceived value? Isn't the value of something what someone is willing to pay for it. If Nintendo make something for $150 and sell it for $250 that is value added. Everybody who bought a console or game or accessory value the product at or above the price they paid. There is no difference.

 

[professor_t]

And you should also correct him on the direct comparison on install base. There is no logic in direct comparison (Unless you're EA) unless the total volume sales are linearly the same and with the same software titles available. If Gears of War 2 sells one gazillion, especially f.ex. when Dead Space is competing for the dollars at the same time, EA will have less potential sales - On that platform.

This principle is way too advanced for GAF. Please take it back to MIT.

 

[Koren]

What else could PS3 owners possibly want from the thing? It shares almost the same library as the 360 and has it's own Sony exclusives.

Personally, more japanese-centric games. I was happy with games such as Valkyria Chronicles, but PS3 is awfully western-centric. Most japanese-style games tend to be 360 exclusives (and the fact that 360 (and Wii) are region-locked is a problem )

But I really doubt that's what most PS3 owners are looking for.

 

[Tobor]

I helped my Dad purchase and hook up a Wii today, which makes a grand total of 4 in my immediate family alone.

Watching my half blind diabetic father have fun with a video game sort of got me waxing nostalgic for when we were still amazed by the Wii's sales. Carry on.

 

[jay]

I helped my Dad purchase and hook up a Wii today, which makes a grand total of 4 in my immediate family alone.

Watching my half blind diabetic father have fun with a video game sort of got me waxing nostalgic for when we were still amazed by the Wii's sales. Carry on.

Your half blind diabetic father just killed gaming.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Exclusive PS3 support had already dried up, in part due to poor PS3 sales, but also because of high development costs in general. I'll say again: I'm not disputing that the PS3 might be on its way out, I'm simply saying that the minimal data we have doesn't prove it. It's far more likely that it's still viable (if only barely) and will stumble through the rest of this gen in the shadow of its competition, much as the Gamecube did last gen.

Agreed.

That's infantile. By that standard, hundreds of games failed and 10 succeeded--5 of which were from Nintendo. Like I said, only 10 games can be in the top 10. The criteria you're applying would mean the industry as a whole is dead, not just the PS3.

I meant in the first month or 2. Skake 2 didn't make the list, nor did Lord of the Rings Conquest (though that's deserving).

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

You seem to not have a clue. All those 3 games are outstanding piece of software. The fact that you just dont get it doesnt change it

And I stated the contrary when exactly?

WiiPlay is not outstanding.

...okay maybe not "outstanding" but these games are pretty fun.

 

[selig]

Well, yes and no. Quantity and the fact that it's only $50 with a Wiimote certainly plays a big part.

no.

who wants a wiimote pays 40$ for one. Who wants WiiPlay pays 50$ for the wiimote-bundle.
But noone pays 50$ because he wants a wiimote.

 

[MacBosse]

Your half blind diabetic father just killed gaming.

No, he just showed you the true beginning of gaming; fun.

 

[Tobor]

Your half blind diabetic father just killed gaming.

Don't worry, I knocked over his magazine rack on the way out.

 

[Cipherr]

I think we need to draw a line between saying something Bombed and saying it didnt meet expectations.

IMO it goes like this:

If a game bombs, not only does it not meet expectations but it loses money in the process.

If a game doesn't meet expectations there is a possibility it fell short AND loss money. However theres also the chance that it made money, yet still fell short of expectations.

Not meeting the forcasted goal != "Bombed" to me. So when I see stump write out a 3 paragraph post detailing how we are all certain Wii music made its budget back and some by moving millions of units, then he closes this with "but it still bombed". Its seeming like a complete contradiction to me. Not meeting expectations and bombing are two completely separate things.

Don't worry, I knocked over his magazine rack on the way out.

:lol

 

[Kilrogg]

no.

who wants a wiimote pays 40$ for one. Who wants WiiPlay pays 50$ for the wiimote-bundle.
But noone pays 50$ because he wants a wiimote.

What I mean is that 10$ is a low premium for a game. It's not too far-fetched to imagine people thinking "for 10$ more, I might as well take that, it's got a game!"

Notice that my position is that Wii Play is still a good piece of software. It's just that I can fathom SOME people buying it just because it's 10$ more for a game. Maybe I shouldn't have put the word "big" there.

 

[Halvie]

No, he just showed you the true beginning of gaming; fun.

totally! Because we all know games were zero fun before the Wii came out.

 

[Gaborn]

totally! Because we all know games were zero fun before the Wii came out.

Well they were, at least for the vast majority of a certain audience.

 

[J-Rock]

Nice to see more Nintendo domination.

 

[Cipherr]

totally! Because we all know games were zero fun before the Wii came out.

Not sure if your joking or not, but the word "beginning" is literally right there in the text you quoted from him which directly references "fun" in gaming prior to the Wii. Makes what you said silly/redundant unless it was.... sarcastic sarcasm.

 

[Halvie]

Not sure if your joking or not, but the word "beginning" is literally right there in the text you quoted from him which directly references "fun" in gaming prior to the Wii. Makes what you said silly/redundant unless it was.... sarcastic sarcasm.

To equate old NES games with Wii games is silly. Could they be anymore different?

 

[Cipherr]

To equate old NES games with Wii games is silly. Could they be anymore different?

 

[selig]

What I mean is that 10$ is a low premium for a game. It's not too far-fetched to imagine people thinking "for 10$ more, I might as well take that, it's got a game!"

Notice that my position is that Wii Play is still a good piece of software. It's just that I can fathom SOME people buying it just because it's 10$ more for a game. Maybe I shouldn't have put the word "big" there.

That still doesnt justify those posting where people demand WiiPlay to be put off of the software charts. I bought Deadly Creatures because it was only 40 bucks. It´s not the consumer´s fault if a game is cheaper than others. Just like it´s Sony´s fault that they chose to create a 600$ system. Hope you get the point.

Also, WiiPlay is damn fun, more so for that little money. The tank game alone is worth 10$.