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[ninjablade]

But they just did? As they had done some years prior also. As they did when PS1 launched. As they do with every other consumer electronic product that steals the thunder from the previous dominant product.

Brand loyalty beyond quality is a rare gem that only shines on enthusiast circles. It's not a metric for the real world.

Naw brand locality is huge, if you look at certain parts of the world you would you can see clearly plays a huge role, you have to release a better product at a cheaper price to even compete, but if both products are even the stronger brand will easily win.

 

[CosmicQueso]

So where did the 100 million Wii owners go? they didn't stay in Nintendo ecosystem after years of being there.

What argument are you making right now? I can't get my head around what it is you're advocating.

 

[ethomaz]

So where did the 100 million Wii owners go? they didn't stay in Nintendo ecosystem after years of being there.

A lot of Wii owners never had a console before and I guess they will never buy a new one.

My boss is one of them... she don't like games or consoles at all but found Wii Sports fun due motion controls.

 

[Fdkn]

Naw brand locality is huge, if you look at certain parts of the world you would you can see clearly plays a huge role, you have to release a better product at a cheaper price to even compete, but if both products are even the stronger brand will easily win.

But this is a market with no even products. Most people buy what they find better. I can't believe we are arguing this for a whole day already.

 

[Chobel]

Thanks Queso for that info, the events that happened post E3 2013 make much more sense now.

 

[ninjablade]

But this is a market with no even products. Most people buy what they find better. I can't believe we are arguing this for a whole day already.

Exactly what I mean, there not even ps4 has every advantage In the book so it's no wonder it's destroying the XB1, but if Microsoft handled the XB1 better they could have giving better competition but will still lose by 20-30 million cause of sony strong brand ww.

 

[onQ123]

What argument are you making right now? I can't get my head around what it is you're advocating.

He said "Consumers just don't decide they're going to switch ecosystems after years of being in one on a whim."


so I asked what happened to the 100 million Wii owners if consumers don't decide they are going to switch ecosystems after years of being in one.

 

[Fat4all]

He said "Consumers just don't decide they're going to switch ecosystems after years of being in one on a whim."


so I asked what happened to the 100 million Wii owners if consumers don't decide they are going to switch ecosystems after years of being in one.

The lot of Wii consumers were not typical video game consumers, this has been known for quite a long time.

The Wii was the exception to the rule.

 

[Obliterator]

He said "Consumers just don't decide they're going to switch ecosystems after years of being in one on a whim."


so I asked what happened to the 100 million Wii owners if consumers don't decide they are going to switch ecosystems after years of being in one.

Those Wii owners didn't leave on a "whim". They left due to disinterest in the product and the rise of smart phones and tablets.

The bleeding of the Xbox marketshare in the US is a similar trajectory. The Xbox brand did not offer those consumers the experience they wanted so they jumped ship. MS failed to capitalize on its own momentum and Sony did a great job of positioning their console to appeal to that demo of gamers. Hence things like the COD bundle you see sitting on store shelves right now.

 

[Fdkn]

Exactly what I mean, there not even ps4 has every advantage In the book so it's no wonder it's destroying the XB1, but if Microsoft handled the XB1 better they could have giving better competition but will still lose by 20-30 million cause of sony strong brand ww.

But again, if Xb1 was a better product, it would sell more but the bulk of those sales wouldn't be taken away from the ps4. It would be simply more sales for the whole market.

More desirable products means more products sold. That's how the industry growths or shrinks depending on what is being offered. That's how last gen Wii+PS360 got to >260 million units sold.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

Dat Cosmic insight.

Interesting info.

 

[ninjablade]

Those Wii owners didn't leave on a "whim". They left due to disinterest in the product and the rise of smart phones and tablets.

The bleeding of the Xbox marketshare in the US is a similar trajectory. The Xbox brand did not offer those consumers the experience they wanted so they jumped ship. MS failed to capitalize on its own momentum and Sony did a great job of positioning their console to appeal to that demo of gamers. Hence things like the COD bundle you see sitting on store shelves right now.

Yea i was 360 owner that jumped ship after I found out how underpowered it was to the ps4, having better multiplatform experience was a big deal to me, cause I liked both exlusives from both companies although sony took a huge lead with the last of us.

 

[Conduit]

Allan isn't even entirely wrong. MS complete mis calculation of the market played a significant role in the PS4's position in the NA market. Thats not even up for debate. Its not entirely that, Sony may have won the gen even if the Xbox One came out all cylinders firing but their mistakes had a noteworthy impact.

Yes, he is! MS's Xbone mistakes are SMALL part of the PS4 success. PlayStation is a simply a STRONGER brand than Xbox. PERIOD!
Dude, X360 without major fuckups ( well, even with RROD people get another X360 anyway ) last-gen was beaten by PS3 which had bad reveal, a year late launch and higher price point!

 

[Obliterator]

Dat Cosmic insight.

Interesting info.

Oh there's books that could be written about the post fallout from that reveal. Would make for quite a read

Yes, he is! MS's Xbone mistakes are SMALL part of the PS4 success. PlayStation is a simply a STRONGER brand than Xbox. PERIOD!
Dude, X360 without major fuckups ( well, even with RROD people get another X360 anyway ) last-gen was beaten by PS3 which had bad reveal, a year late launch and higher price point!

The 360 slaughtered the PS3 in the US last gen. We are in an NPD thread talking about US based performance or at least I am.

 

[Sterok]

The US went Nintendo, Nintendo/Sega, Sony, Sony, Nintendo/Microsoft, Sony. I'm not seeing how there's an absolute brand loyalty that can overcome all but the worst consoles when almost every gen sees some shift in who dominates. Sony just consistently has a more appealing console than its competitors for a variety of reasons. For the US I don't think it's much more complicated than that.

Worldwide might be a different story, but Playstation is generally better at appealing to non-Americans than Xbox, while Nintendo's success seems to depend on how much the country likes their main games. For the most part I think brand loyalty is a symptom of how appealing your system is rather than brands making a system appealing.

 

[Fat4all]

Yes, he is! MS's Xbone mistakes are SMALL part of the PS4 success. PlayStation is a simply a STRONGER brand than Xbox. PERIOD!
Dude, X360 without major fuckups ( well, even with RROD people get another X360 anyway ) last-gen was beaten by PS3 which had bad reveal, a year late launch and higher price point!

That is true, but as a separate point, the good will Microsoft had built with the gaming community up until that point for their relative success on the 360 was completely shredded as soon that they had their announcement event for the Xbox One. They lack of a botch would of allowed them to be much more competitive this generation sales-wise.

Instead, this generation is looking closer to the sixth gen over again, but with Xbox One being better off and Wii U being worse off.

 

[ninjablade]

But again, if Xb1 was a better product, it would sell more but the bulk of those sales wouldn't be taken away from the ps4. It would be simply more sales for the whole market.

More desirable products means more products sold. That's how the industry growths or shrinks depending on what is being offered. That's how last gen Wii+PS360 got to >260 million units sold.

I disagree. they are in direct completion. lastgen 360 took marketshare from the ps3, if 360 had sold only 40 million, you would have seen ps3 at over 120 million excluding those kinect sales.

 

[Obliterator]

I disagree. they are in direct completion. lastgen 360 took marketshare from the ps3, if 360 had sold only 40 million, you would have seen ps3 at over 120 million excluding those kinect sales.

Yes. The people in the US deciding between an Xbox One and a PS4 are the exact same demographic by and large.

 

[Conduit]

The 360 slaughtered the PS3 in the US last gen. We are in an NPD thread talking about US based performance or at least I am.

Oh...now is "NPD" thread. I see. Well, i'm talking about global race.

 

[onQ123]

A lot of Wii owners never had a console before and I guess they will never buy a new one.

My boss is one of them... she don't like games or consoles at all but found Wii Sports fun due motion controls.

So we are to believe that most Wii owners was just mindless casual gamers that would never buy another console?

A lot of the PS1 & PS2 owners never had a console before because PlayStation was the 1st console to make it to 100 million & 150 million & there is also people who bought the PS4 that never bought a console before. it's people with the PS4 that just sit in PlayRoom all day broadcasting & talking to people but it would be crazy to look at these people & say that PS4 owners don't play games & would never buy another console. Wii got some people into gaming that wouldn't buy a console before but there is also people who already play games that bought the Wii to play games & still play games today & bought a new console.

 

[Fdkn]

I disagree. they are in direct completion. lastgen 360 took marketshare from the ps3, if 360 had sold only 40 million, you would have seen ps3 at over 120 million excluding those kinect sales.

lol, no. The market is not a zero-sum game. smh

 

[Javin98]

I disagree. they are in direct completion. lastgen 360 took marketshare from the ps3, if 360 had sold only 40 million, you would have seen ps3 at over 120 million excluding those kinect sales.

Dude, that's not how this works. Who said that sales and competition work in a linear scale? Just because someone doesn't buy a 360 it doesn't mean they will automatically buy a PS3 and vice versa.

 

[Obliterator]

Oh...now is "NPD" thread. I see.

It always was. Every post where I discuss this entore thing I state the only major difference would likely have been in the US. I've stated PS4 would take global either way in I believe every single post on this discussion where we've mentioned global install base.

 

[Fat4all]

So we are to believe that most Wii owners was just mindless casual gamers that would never buy another console?

Come on, man...

There's always a chance another console hits the same mainstream stride as the Wii, get massive public attention like the Wii did, gets in national newspapers, retirement homes, etc. But a flash in the pan is a flash in the pan. They aren't mindless for buying the Wii, and Nintendo didn't design the console for mindless people to play it.

 

[Obliterator]

lol, no. The market is not a zero-sum game. smh

Dude, that's not how this works. Who said that sales and competition work in a linear scale? Just because someone doesn't buy a 360 it doesn't mean they will automatically buy a PS3 and vice versa.

Thats actually almost exactly how this work considering they share a nearly exact demo. There is no strong 3rd pillar. And those people aren't just deciding to not buy a console.

 

[FuturusX]

Buy a fucking console...you have to. Why? Coz it's the law!!

 

[Hyunashi]

The fact that the Xbox One is not number one in the US after years of constant domination from the 360? Consumers just don't decide they're going to switch ecosystems after years of being in one on a whim.

So we are gonna discredit how much growth the PS3 had in its sales towards the end of last generation? There was a reason Sony came back from the brink and that is part of the reason people DID swap ecosystems.

Sony are doing as well as they are today partly because they built up their world wide studios, offered a great VARIETY of games which encouraged individuals to switch ecosystems.

 

[Miles X]

Yes, he is! MS's Xbone mistakes are SMALL part of the PS4 success. PlayStation is a simply a STRONGER brand than Xbox. PERIOD!
Dude, X360 without major fuckups ( well, even with RROD people get another X360 anyway ) last-gen was beaten by PS3 which had bad reveal, a year late launch and higher price point!

We have no idea if PS3 or 360 won, not had shipment updates from either, it's an assumed tie. Also you have no numbers from RROD either, stop talking absolute bollocks mate.

 

[Obliterator]

Buy a fucking console...you have to. Why? Coz it's the law!!

If you are walking into a GameStop / Best Buy / Wal-Mart with $300 in your pocket with the intent to purchase than yes.

The Playstation brand and Xbox brand in the US basically live or die with how they stack up directly in comparison to their competitor.

 

[Javin98]

Thats actually almost exactly how this work considering they share a nearly exact demo. There is no strong 3rd pillar. And those people aren't just deciding to not buy a console.

Sure, a vast majority of people would probably buy the other console, but I'm saying that it is not exactly a 1:1 linear scale like ninjablade claims it is. As in, a lost sale for 360 is not a definite sale for PS3. I know that I wouldn't get an XB1 if the PS4 was not available in my country.

P.S. I'm not turning this into fanboy wars, I just don't have any interest in an XBox console.

 

[Fdkn]

Thats actually almost exactly how this work considering they share a nearly exact demo. There is no strong 3rd pillar. And those people aren't just deciding to not buy a console.

You're wrong. People buying consoles are buying them because they find them desirable. Period. The console market is not a fixed ammount and if the products weren't satisfiying the market, they would buy other things for enterteinment or don't buy anything at all.

As an easy example, look at Japan. They bought consoles because they found them desirable, until most of them stopped finding them that way. So sales declined, and declined, and they are now a fraction of what they were. Those are the same consoles that we buy, but the market have rejected them because they've found other things that suit their needs better.

Seriously, asumming the console market exists in a vacuum and that it has a fixed size where sales forcefully go to one or the other is so bizarre I can't believe I'm in a sales thread.

 

[Purest 78]

The lot of Wii consumers were not typical video game consumers, this has been known for quite a long time.

The Wii was the exception to the rule.

That's definitely True even my Dad in his fifties bought a Wii. Which was probably played once It proves your point though.

 

[FuturusX]

Japan needs to pass the one house one console law, like in the the US. Decline solved.

 

[Obliterator]

You're wrong. People buying consoles are buying them because they find them desirable. Period. The console market is not a fixed ammount and if the products weren't satisfiying the market, they would buy other things for enterteinment or don't buy anything at all.

As an easy example, look at Japan. They bought consoles because they found them desirable, until most of them stopped finding them that way. So sales declined, and declined, and they are now a fraction of what they were. Those are the same consoles that we buy, but the market have rejected them because they've found other things that suit their needs better.

Seriously, asumming the console market exists in a vacuum and that it has a fixed size where sales forcefully go to one or the other is so bizarre I can't believe I'm in a sales thread.

Im not wrong. At all.

I never claimed we live in a vacuum of install base. The fact of the matter is the Xbox brand and the Playstation brand in the US share a nearly 1:1 demo in terms of purchasing habits and buying power and the loss of sale to one far more often than not leads to a purchase of the other.

This is the way the current sales landscape in the US works.

 

[ninjablade]

Sure, a vast majority of people would probably buy the other console, but I'm saying that it is not exactly a 1:1 linear scale like ninjablade claims it is. As in, a lost sale for 360 is not a definite sale for PS3. I know that I wouldn't get an XB1 if the PS4 was not available in my country.

P.S. I'm not turning this into fanboy wars, I just don't have any interest in an XBox console.

Lol it's pretty much fact that third-parties are selling both the ps4 and xbone, if ps4 wasn't available they would turn to xbone as the console of choice.

 

[Giriath_89]

Damn guys, you're suddenly so active I thought there would be pies...

 

[Sterok]

Im not wrong. At all.

I never claimed we live in a vacuum of install base. The fact of the matter is the Xbox brand and the Playstation brand in the US share a nearly 1:1 demo in terms of purchasing habits and buying power and the loss of sale to one far more often than not leads to a purchase of the other.

This is the way the current sales landscape in the US works.

Are you counting the people who bought a 360 for the Kinect, or are you tossing away those consumers into the Wii pile?

 

[Jarod McChicken]

We have no idea if PS3 or 360 won, not had shipment updates from either, it's an assumed tie. Also you have no numbers from RROD either, stop talking absolute bollocks mate.

If you want a number for RROD, we have this one from Peter Moore : $1.15bn. That's what Steve Ballmer agreed to spend to repair the damage caused by this.

"If we hadn't made that decision there and then, and tried to fudge over this problem, then the Xbox brand and Xbox One wouldn't exist today."

 

[Javin98]

Lol it's pretty much fact that third-parties are selling both the ps4 and xbone, if ps4 wasn't available they would turn to xbone as the console of choice.

Dude, I'm from Malaysia and I can bet that even if the PS4 was unavailable here, the XB1 wouldn't be popular. Besides, only a handful of people I know actually own a PS4. Consoles are just not popular in Malaysia. Unless I'm completely misunderstanding your point because honestly, your post is a bit hard to comprehend.

Edit: Oh, wait, I think I get your point now, my bad. Anyway, the part you bolded is my personal preference. Obviously the mass market would generally pick the other console. I even said so myself in that post.

 

[Conduit]

We have no idea if PS3 or 360 won, not had shipment updates from either, it's an assumed tie. Also you have no numbers from RROD either, stop talking absolute bollocks mate.

What bollocks? Didn't MS offered free repair because RROD?

 

[Obliterator]

Are you counting the people who bought a 360 for the Kinect, or are you tossing away those consumers into the Wii pile?

All you have to do is look at the results of the Kinect for Xbox One and its support from 3rd parties and MS itself in terms of software to answer the question of what happened to Kinect purchasers by and large.

 

[Miles X]

If you want a number for RROD, we have this one from Peter Moore : $1.15bn. That's what Steve Ballmer agreed to spend to repair the damage caused by this.

Yes, to repair, that gives us no numbers on how many units people rebought after throwing away consoles.

What bollocks? Didn't MS offered free repair because RROD?

Yes? You said about people rebuying consoles because of RROD. What has that got to do with repairs and $$$ spent?

 

[FuturusX]

Damn guys, you're suddenly so active I thought there would be pies...

Do we even need Pies at this stage? Xbox handed over their lunch money without a peep. Sony could have launched a toaster and they would still be crushing it.

Sony...are you even trying?

Nope, don't have to.

 

[Fat4all]

Yes, to repair, that gives us no numbers on how many units people rebought after throwing away consoles.

The problem is that we could never have an accurate number for that, it's statistics can't really be applied to any real argument over the sales.

The best we have is some defect rates, and even then that doesn't give us enough info.

 

[Miles X]

The problem is that we could never have an accurate number for that, it's statistics can really be applied to any real argument over the sales.

The best we have is some defect rates, and even then that doesn't give us enough info.

Well, that's exactly my point. Don't bring it up without any sort of proof of numbers because it just looks like fanboy giberish.

 

[Obliterator]

Do we even need Pies at this stage? Xbox handed over their lunch money without a peep. Sony could have launched a toaster and they would still be crushing it.

Sony...are you even trying?

Nope, don't have to.

No one is saying that at all.

The results of this generation are both a testament to great design and understanding of the market by Sony and gigantic mis calculation of the market by MS. The two go hand in hand.

 

[Sterok]

All you have to do is look at the results of the Kinect for Xbox One and its support from 3rd parties and MS itself in terms of software to answer the question of what happened to Kinect purchasers by and large.

So you're only talking about what Playstation and Xbox currently appeal to. In which case yeah, basically the same people. There are slight differences with Xbox having a greater concentration of shooter fans while Playstation attracts people who like JP games, but at this point in time the demographic overlap between the two seems incredibly high.

 

[On Demand]

Lets say we all agree that PS4's success is 100% attributed to MS mishaps, i don't get why it needs to keep being used as an excuse for PS4's sales.

Woulda, coulda, shoulda.......

The fact that the Xbox One is not number one in the US after years of constant domination from the 360? Consumers just don't decide they're going to switch ecosystems after years of being in one on a whim.

But this thinking assumes nothing at all could be possible for Sony to position the PS4 to steal those consumers even if MS did things right. You're just looking to the 360's success and thinking that means an automatic win. The general consumer is not loyal to anyone one platform. The PS4 was designed to fix all the mistakes from PS3, it was launching at the same time as XB1, it was definitely possible for the PS4 to lead the U.S. regardless if everything went according to plan for MS or not.

 

[Conduit]

Well, that's exactly my point. Don't bring it up without any sort of proof of numbers because it just looks like fanboy giberish.

What fanboy giberish? X360 dales didn't slow down WW because RROD, isn't it.

 

[onQ123]

Come on, man...

There's always a chance another console hits the same mainstream stride as the Wii, get massive public attention like the Wii did, gets in national newspapers, retirement homes, etc. But a flash in the pan is a flash in the pan. They aren't mindless for buying the Wii, and Nintendo didn't design the console for mindless people to play it.

PS4 is selling to them same type of people who bought the Wii also. click on Live From PlayStation & see the broadcasters nothing about these people say they are hardcore gamers but they all have PS4. Also don't forget all the Netflix & chill people , these people are buying consoles to use for Netflix. The Wii buyers did not just go away into the sunset never to buy a console again.