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[Fat4all]

Just going to assume you read the link and did not bother reading the article.

It's okay.

Let's dispel the notion that Ars Technica doesn't know what they're doing, they know exactly what they're doing.

 

[Old Gimlet Eyes]

It was over a million at launch, with digital.

Probably above 3mm ww. Didn't they say today they had a few million active players recently or something?

Amazing number, thanks for the reply. Not sure if Ubi mentioned that or not, haven't been able to follow my gaming news as much as I would like lately. Glad to see such a good FPS is getting rewarded with awesome sales. I never thought I would ever even play a Tom Clancy game again after Vegas, Advanced Warrior and the last Splinter Cell. Boy have Ubi turned at least r6 around (for me).

 

[Obliterator]

Also both Xbox One & PS4 play used games so what does that link have to do with PS4 success?

The Xbone reveal hurt that system incredibly. Its kind of astonishing how well its faired post launch considering the sheer brand damage it did.

And also I'm not going to go further into this, as frankly it would be a mistake for me.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Keep in mind that Allan has been using this point in almost every NPD thread. Keep in mind that his perspective of the PS3 is a failure despite it launching a year later at a higher price and almost matching the xbox 360's total sales. Keep in mind he has downplayed PS4's success while being impressed with XB1s time and time again. Hard to have an argument about something like this when a person is that biased.

Yeah looking over a small sample of his/her posts it seems like you hit the nail on the head.

Disappointing behavior.

I dunno about all this, and to be honest, I dont know if ill agree on allan being biased but one thing I do know is that the idea that the PS4 is only this successful because of the Xbox one reveal, 3 years later sounds awfully like the idea that the Xbox 360 sales were mostly people replacing faulty units.

Both ridiculous notions and anyone claiming otherwise should know better.

 

[Shenmue]

Im not using thoughts or dreams on anything. I never do on sales.

There has been extensive research by plenty of major players in the industry on the direction MS took the Xbox One and its effect on install base both before and after launch.

Here's one that was made public by a major company. And there are others.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/...wont-buy-console-that-doesnt-play-used-games/

Isn't this just a survey about intent and not actual effect on sales before and after?

Gamestop could have done way better because they have preorder numbers, cancellations numbers, and actual sales numbers.

Furthermore i don't believe that says anything about ps4's userbase increasing at the cost of xbox's.

 

[ethomaz]

I don't think self inflicted perma ban requests should actually be perma, as situations can always change and at a later date it may be sensible for that person to jump back in. Just have self inflicted (non perma) ban requests and that's it. That way you can avoid said persons desire for an alt in the first place, should they want to come back in. As I understand it, it can be difficult to get back in once a perma is self requested. Unless of course I'm misinformed.

The idea of self inflicted perma is something that didn't enter in my mind.

If you want to stop to post in a site you can do that without need to be banned... if you wish to back your account will be there.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

Im not using thoughts or dreams on anything. I never do on sales.

There has been extensive research by plenty of major players in the industry on the direction MS took the Xbox One and its effect on install base both before and after launch.

Here's one that was made public by a major company. And there are others.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/...wont-buy-console-that-doesnt-play-used-games/

Well the thing is that the DRM and 24-hour authentication policies weren't the only mistakes MS made during the XB1's reveal...

 

[Obliterator]

Gamestop could have done way better because they have preorder numbers, cancellations numbers, and actual sales numbers.

Of course they did. They would never make such things public knowledge. This is just one small study that company made public

 

[CosmicQueso]

Gamestop could have done way better because they have preorder numbers, cancellations numbers, and actual sales numbers.

They did. Quite loudly. Just not publicly.

Without getting into detail, the leading games retailer was not going to be forced out of the used games business. The public response to that conference was very strong and very negative. The leading games retailer's response was stronger and even more negative, with a lot of power behind it. That 180 came as fast as it did not because of the consumer backlash (although it was certainly a factor and would have likely led to a reversal over time).

 

[Obliterator]

They did. Quite loudly. Just not publicly.

Cosmic you always get a thumbs up from me.

 

[Loudninja]

So the next wave of bundles are coming up,what to expect?

 

[onQ123]

The Xbone reveal hurt that system incredibly. Its kind of astonishing how well its faired post launch considering the sheer brand damage it did.

And also I'm not going to go further ibto this, as frankly it would be a mistake for me to go further into this.

It hurt the brand yet it sold more at launch than any other Xbox console? so tell me how Xbox One hurt Xbox Brand & sell faster than any other Xbox console & at the same time sell PS4's that Sony couldn't sell themselves?

Think about that, all the mishaps didn't stop Xbox One from selling better than all other Xbox consoles that came before it but somehow it was able to make PS4 more successful than Sony who has already sold over 100 million consoles twice?

 

[30yearsofhurt]

Really you're gonna post a link to arstechnica? arstechnica!?

Really?

Also both Xbox One & PS4 play used games so what does that link have to do with PS4 success?

2024 baby! The age of sony is DONE!

 

[Shenmue]

They did. Quite loudly. Just not publicly.

Ah so i assume they had significant numbers showing pre-orders and then actual purchasers following through on those pre-orders switching from xbox to ps4 at the point the "mistakes" were announced and made known to the public then.

 

[ethomaz]

They did. Quite loudly. Just not publicly.

I remember that.

It was after one meeting with GameStop (that probably showed the the terrible preorders numbers) that MS did the 180 going against their our words.

 

[Obliterator]

It hurt the brand yet it sold more at launch than any other Xbox console? so tell me how Xbox One hurt Xbox Brand & sell faster than any other Xbox console & at the same time sell PS4's that Sony couldn't sell themselves?

Think about that, all the mishaps didn't stop Xbox One from selling better than all other Xbox consoles that came before it but somehow it was able to make PS4 more successful than Sony who has already sold over 100 million consoles twice?

The Xbox One, for as well as it launched, could have done much much more. I have full entire confidence in that statement.

I'm not here to take one single thing from Sony. They have been fantastic this generation. They could have still won global sales and maybe even NA without MS giant cluster fuck at the start of this generation.

But that reveal has had a real and lasting impact.

 

[ethomaz]

It hurt the brand yet it sold more at launch than any other Xbox console? so tell me how Xbox One hurt Xbox Brand & sell faster than any other Xbox console & at the same time sell PS4's that Sony couldn't sell themselves?

Think about that, all the mishaps didn't stop Xbox One from selling better than all other Xbox consoles that came before it but somehow it was able to make PS4 more successful than Sony who has already sold over 100 million consoles twice?

You can't look at the launch numbers to weight the success of a console.
This generation is more front loaded than previous... even the preorders today is bigger than what it was in previous generation.

After the great launch Xbone sales become crap to the point MS was forced to get rip from Kinect in May.

 

[Fat4all]

You can't look at the launch numbers to weight the success of a console.
This generation is more front loaded than previous... even the preorders today is bigger than what it was in previous generation.

The thirst for next-gen was super real, last-gen was just too fucking long.

 

[El-Pistolero]

Haha, you're not. I don't have any interest in the game.

Great! We are a team of three now...

 

[Fdkn]

Ok this is a blatant simplification but I think I understand where lies the logic of this whole discussion:

What some people think that's happening:

- Joe wants to buy a Xbox but the new Xbox 'sucks' so he nods and buys a PS4 instead. The Xbox being worse product made a PS4 sale.

What it's actually happening:

- Peter wants to buy a console and ask himself "whats the best console for my needs?" and after researching his options, he chooses a PS4. The PS4 sold a new unit because it is the better product.

---

I could admit that, specially in an entushiast space like GAF, there would be some people like Joe, but I think is delusional to think that the whole market follows that way of thinking instead of the one Peter did. The one where people buy what they want to buy, and not the competition from what they don't want to buy.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

I would say something, but I mean, it's not like the information on who Mulcair was, how the account was setup, and why they would be registered as an alt, is not out in the wild on a certain site that has a sales forum.

Banning the one person that gave us concrete info because of them being an "alt" is laughable, but I mean, that is neither here nor there.

Oh.

Well, if what you are saying is what I think you are saying, then its for the best. That user needs to move on with their life, much as they love this forum. As someone who recently took up a job which has an extremely stringent social media policy, I know how much it sucks not being able to say or do what you want online anymore, but your livelihood is worth more than that.

Even if the winds have changed, they could just as easily change back again. Its not worth it.

To NPD George and your water based predecessor, thank you for the information you shared, it was well received every time. However, please dont fly so close to the sun. We really arent that important.

 

[CosmicQueso]

Ah so i assume they had significant numbers showing pre-orders and then actual purchasers following through on those pre-orders switching from xbox to ps4 at the point the "mistakes" were announced and made known to the public then.

Yes, but that wasn't what really pushed the issue.

Once the announce hit, it took most people by surprise. Consumers weren't the only ones surprised by the conference and the policies. No real prep was done with retail or 3rd parties (I'm sure some people knew, but it took most people by surprise). What happened next was quite amazing. Flurries of phone calls, meetings, all around how the heck to set up these used game activation codes and policies. Basic questions like who was responsible for getting used game sellers the activation codes their customers would need to activate used games, how would pubs set up the back end support to track all these codes, what costs would be involved and who would pay for things like printing...

And the position of the biggest used games retailer basically was "give us free codes for our customers or we're not buying your products." So then what can you do? If you give the biggest retailer free activation codes for your used products or they don't carry your product then you have to give free activation codes to all used retailers. Problem is, someone had to pay for the codes, which were going to basically cost a reduced royalty fee. Who was going to do that? Were publishers now going to pay $5 to MS every time a customer bought a used game at the world's biggest retailer of used games product? How would those codes be tracked? Would each game now need a SKU specifically for used game activation codes?

The whole idea was cursed from jump street. It was never going to fly. No one thought through the actual implementation of the idea. How it would actually work at store level. I mean, it's shocking that the reveal went out the way it did in that so little homework was done to make sure the whole idea was workable to begin with.

All the preorders and the consumer sentiment? That was just icing.

 

[Welfare]

Oh.

Well, if what you are saying is what I think you are saying, then its for the best. That user needs to move on with their life, much as they love this forum. As someone who recently took up a job which has an extremely stringent social media policy, I know how much it sucks not being able to say or do what you want online anymore, but your livelihood is worth more than that.

Even if the winds have changed, they could just as easily change back again. Its not worth it.

To NPD George and your water based predecessor, thank you for the information you shared, it was well received every time. However, please dont fly so close to the sun. We really arent that important.

Mulcair's job was not at stake.

 

[Javin98]

Oh.

Well, if what you are saying is what I think you are saying, then its for the best. That user needs to move on with their life, much as they love this forum. As someone who recently took up a job which has an extremely stringent social media policy, I know how much it sucks not being able to say or do what you want online anymore, but your livelihood is worth more than that.

Even if the winds have changed, they could just as easily change back again. Its not worth it.

To NPD George and your water based predecessor, thank you for the information you shared, it was well received every time. However, please dont fly so close to the sun. We really arent that important.

Nope, no one was threatening George to inflict a self imposed ban on his GAF account. In fact, he was given permission to share the numbers here.

 

[onQ123]

The Xbox One, for as well as it launched, could have done much much more. I have full entire confidence in that statement.

I'm not here to take one single thing from Sony. They have been fantastic this generation. They could have still won global sales and maybe even NA without MS giant cluster fuck at the start of this generation.

But that reveal has had a real and lasting impact.

Where is the proof that MS mishaps created PS4 success?

 

[Welfare]

Where is the proof that MS mishaps created PS4 success?

The fact that the Xbox One is not number one in the US after years of constant domination from the 360? Consumers just don't decide they're going to switch ecosystems after years of being in one on a whim.

 

[ethomaz]

Cream please give us pie.

The conversation is getting weird and I'm making part of it

 

[Fat4all]

The fact that the Xbox One is not number one in the US after years of constant domination from the 360? Consumers just don't decide they're going to switch ecosystems after years of being in one.

Yeah, Sony would still be winning world-wide, but for NA and Europe the Xbox One probably would be leading.

 

[ethomaz]

Yeah, Sony would still be winning world-wide, but for NA and Europe the Xbox One probably would be leading.

Europe? Not even a chance... PS3 lead in EU over 360 was really big like over 2:1.

 

[Welfare]

Yeah, Sony would still be winning world-wide, but for NA and Europe the Xbox One probably would be leading.

Not Europe. Europe last gen was Sony. UK would be the only one that would be more Xbox.

 

[capitalCORN]

Is China a Sony nation yet?

 

[ethomaz]

Is China a Sony nation yet?

That 1%

 

[tilomite!]

Let's dispel the notion that Ars Technica doesn't know what they're doing, they know exactly what they're doing.

I got the reference. Good job.

 

[onQ123]

Yes, but that wasn't what really pushed the issue.

Once the announce hit, it took most people by surprise. Consumers weren't the only ones surprised by the conference and the policies. No real prep was done with retail or 3rd parties (I'm sure some people knew, but it took most people by surprise). What happened next was quite amazing. Flurries of phone calls, meetings, all around how the heck to set up these used game activation codes and policies. Basic questions like who was responsible for getting used game sellers the activation codes their customers would need to activate used games, how would pubs set up the back end support to track all these codes, what costs would be involved and who would pay for things like printing...

And the position of the biggest used games retailer basically was "give us free codes for our customers or we're not buying your products." So then what can you do? If you give the biggest retailer free activation codes for your used products or they don't carry your product then you have to give free activation codes to all used retailers. Problem is, someone had to pay for the codes, which were going to basically cost a reduced royalty fee. Who was going to do that? Were publishers now going to pay $5 to MS every time a customer bought a used game at the world's biggest retailer of used games product? How would those codes be tracked? Would each game now need a SKU specifically for used game activation codes?

The whole idea was cursed from jump street. It was never going to fly. No one thought through the actual implementation of the idea. How it would actually work at store level. I mean, it's shocking that the reveal went out the way it did in that so little homework was done to make sure the whole idea was workable to begin with.

All the preorders and the consumer sentiment? That was just icing.

Even with all that happening before launch by time the consoles launched the media outlets was claiming Xbox One to be the better console to buy. they wouldn't even admit that PS4 was more powerful.

 

[Chobel]

Nope, no one was threatening George to inflict a self imposed ban on his GAF account. In fact, he was given permission to share the numbers here.

Where is this coming from? Do people actually believes he/she was working for NPD group?

 

[Welfare]

Where is this coming from? Do people actually believes he/she was working for NPD group?

Check your PM's in just a bit.

 

[Fat4all]

Where is this coming from? Do people actually believes he/she was working for NPD group?

They had NPD in their name, duh.

 

[ethomaz]

Check your PM's in just a bit.

Welfare looks like a badass mod.

 

[Javin98]

Where is this coming from? Do people actually believes he/she was working for NPD group?

Well, Welfare is sending you a PM to answer your questions, but I'll just say that it was confirmed that George did have permission. I don't make claims without proof.

 

[DeepEnigma]

The fact that the Xbox One is not number one in the US after years of constant domination from the 360? Consumers just don't decide they're going to switch ecosystems after years of being in one on a whim.

What ecosystem?

 

[CosmicQueso]

Even with all that happening before launch by time the consoles launched the media outlets was claiming Xbox One to be the better console to buy. they wouldn't even admit that PS4 was more powerful.

On the business side no one cared about any of that.

 

[Welfare]

What ecosystem?

Xbox Live?

Welfare looks like a badass mod.

I just hope a badass mod doesn't crack down on me ;~;

 

[Obliterator]

Cream is reading this thread like "No way in hell I'm posting while all this drama is going down"

Haha I love you Sales GAF. Even when we argue

 

[Fdkn]

Consumers just don't decide they're going to switch ecosystems after years of being in one on a whim.

But they just did? As they had done some years prior also. As they did when PS1 launched. As they do with every other consumer electronic product that steals the thunder from the previous dominant product.

Brand loyalty beyond quality is a rare gem that only shines on enthusiast circles. It's not a metric for the real world.

 

[Welfare]

Cream is reading this thread like "No way in hell I'm posting while all this drama is going down"

Haha I love you Sales GAF. Even when we argue

We're like this because there's no cream.

But cream won't post because we're like this.

But we're like this because there's no cream.

But cream won't post because we're like this.

But

 

[small44]

When Vita will be discontinued do you think Sony will give PS4 numbers again?

 

[DeepEnigma]

Xbox Live?

I would not quite call a closed platform online service an "ecosystem".

Both companies are starting to head down that road, thankfully, for the future to get that iOS/Android pie, but at the time, it was not even remotely resembling anything close, other than a paid online service on a new box which the competition offered as well.

 

[Dsyndrome]

There's more interesting info today than there was yesterday, what with the CQ perspective and such. Curious who Mulclair was an alt for that got him banned, but that's neither here nor there.

I don't want MS out of the console business, I just want them to try to create content without just buying exclusivity. Hopefully the trek is not too appalling for investors.

 

[Fat4all]

I would not quite call a closed platform online service an "ecosystem".

For some reason, the Universal Media Disc just popped into my head.

 

[onQ123]

The fact that the Xbox One is not number one in the US after years of constant domination from the 360? Consumers just don't decide they're going to switch ecosystems after years of being in one on a whim.

So where did the 100 million Wii owners go? they didn't stay in Nintendo ecosystem after years of being there.