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[Boney]

The Conduit

:lol

Ok, you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Rainier]

I have a Wii. I don't own Conduit, MadWorld, or No More Heroes. Most 3rd party titles on the machine are worthless crap. That's the truth. I own many of the ones that weren't total crap, but the ones you mentioned? I can do without, though NMH is actually decent.

Same here, yet I'd buy PW for Wii on day one (assuming it also isn't released on the PS3).

 

[Lonely1]

:lol

Ok, you have no idea what you're talking about.

It sold better than Bionic Commando and Dark Void, so it proves there's a bigger market for sub par FPSes on Wii than the HD twins... :lol

 

[Son of Godzilla]

It's worth noting they are even releasing Reach mid-month instead of back quarter in order to game their numbers. Units will be movened.

 

[Redbeard]

That would killed the PSP version even more, unlike a Wii release. Also, GoW colection was a budget release, unlike this new expensive MGS mainline game...

The GoW collection originally released at $40, the same price as Peace Walker. And in terms of budget, Peace Walker from announcement to release took about a year. I'm not sure how long they've exactly been working on it, but there's no doubt that it was a budget mainline MGS title in terms of cost and was probably a small fraction of MGS4's budget.

I'm speaking from the hypothetical situation that the PS360 version would release after the PSP version had already been released.

And this speaks more to Sony's strategy with PSP software in general; are they looking to increase software sales, or PSP hardware sales?

The bottom line is that having great games like Peace Walker, this late in the PSP's lifecycle, is having zero effect on both hardware and software sales. Sony needs to rethink their strategy; if they are going to bankroll core, AAA titles for the PSP, they need to also put them on the PSN store as a PS3 alternative. While it may not increase sales into the stratosphere, it will certainly increase software sales rather significantly from their paltry PSP offerings, and I'm looking specifically at key titles like Peace Walker and the new God of War.

PS3 cannibalizing PSP hardware is a moot issue at this point -- the PSP has already been cannibalized by itself, and it's better to try and suck as much money out of it as possible by leveraging all aspects of the Playstation family of hardware and services.

 

[Cornbread78]

These used to come out with the top 20. That stopped a long time ago, and now only the top 20 comes through.

None released, hasn't been for a very long time. Historically Wired is generally the first outlet to post per-platform top 10s if any get released.

Damn, I want to see how everything else is doing over the long haul. I'd like to see how games are still selling a few months after release like: WKC, Heavy Rain, GoW3, FFXII, BFBC2 etc. Not that the number are interesting to everyone, but would be for some....

 

[donny2112]

Hey, donny2112, is it time to do the hardware prediction thread results yet? :lol

I find that if I do the HW results without the SW results that the SW results tend to be a long time in coming (i.e. When we don't get all the games for the software results, I keep putting off doing them with the excuse of waiting for that last game to be given sales for). I can plan to do the hardware results tonight, though. Maybe someone will have asked for MGSW sales by then, too.

Edit:

Spoiler

That's not a hint, but it sure does read like one. :lol

 

[Rainier]

It's worth noting they are even releasing Reach mid-month instead of back quarter in order to game their numbers. Units will be movened.

How many times does a game not do as well as expected it's first month, and we get 'b-b-b-but only 3 days of sales!'. It's almost as though the majority of games are released in the back half of every month. I have no idea if this is true, but it's always made me wonder why more games aren't released in the front half of the month, to at least show stockholders that their game had better opening numbers.

 

[donny2112]

It's almost as though the majority of games are released in the back half of every month. I have no idea if this is true, but it's always made me wonder why more games aren't released in the front half of the month, to at least show stockholders that their game had better opening numbers.

It's like that in Japan, and there are weekly sales results there. (e.g. The last Thursday of the month is usually the heaviest with new releases.) Maybe it's a deadline related issue. "Gotta get it out this month and that's the last day we can release it on."

 

[Busaiku]

What segment of those PS2 owners last gen own a Wii this gen? That's the important question. And the answer to that question is the same sorts of people that are buying Wii Sports, Wii Fit, etc. while ignoring The Conduit, MadWorld, No More Heroes, and eschewing third party ports of core franchise titles for PS360 versions.

Releasing only a Wii port would be an insanely stupid decision for a game like Peace Walker, but would make a lot of sense for the PS360.

Both Call of Duty World at War and Modern Warfare Reflex on Wii managed to do beyond a million (I'm not actually completely sure on Modern Warfare Reflex).
Ubisoft has also commented (this year) that Wii games with big names tend to perform very well (Avatar sold best on Wii), that's why we're seeing titles like Ghost Recon Future Soldier on there.

No one is doubting it would fare far better as a PS3/360 game, but the next best option would've been PSP/Wii.

 

[Chris1964]

The GoW collection originally released at $40, the same price as Peace Walker. And in terms of budget, Peace Walker from announcement to release took about a year. I'm not sure how long they've exactly been working on it, but there's no doubt that it was a budget mainline MGS title in terms of cost and was probably a small fraction of MGS4's budget.

No.

 

[Dalthien]

This "the gap is widening further between AAA and A/B/C games" discussion is the most interesting to me: too bad we don't have enough data. The combination of Pachter's recent comments (different thread on the main page) and NPD's explicit statement that, yes, the bigger games are selling better while the smaller ones are selling worse, is good enough proof for me.

I want to see if this continues, and then I want to discuss what it means going forward.

I'll just be repeating what I've said in previous months, but to me, this is the natural result of a prolonged hardware cycle. This is why trying for a 10-year cycle is clearly in Microsoft's and Sony's best interests, but it isn't nearly as cut & dry for publishers. People are often quite happy to play their favourite franchises on a new system, along with a sequel or maybe even two, and try out some new stuff that seems up their alley. But as the generation goes on, things start feeling stale for a growing percentage of the userbase. People start feeling as though they are just playing the same games that they've already played numerous times, and they start to pull back their purchases and focus more and more on the must-have titles.

This is a major reason why generations have historically slipped into a fairly regular pattern. At a certain point, new hardware is needed to refresh enthusiasm for a larger and larger portion of the userbase. But MS and Sony have no interest in starting a whole new costly cycle after the insane losses that both companies took upfront this generation.

But 3rd-parties will increasingly need a new generation to refresh consumer excitement. We are already seeing that start to play out, and it is not a coincidence that we are starting to enter that phase where we would typically be starting to hear the buzz build about the new coming generation of products. The Halos, Call of Duties, Gran Turismos will all be fine. The must-have titles won't have any problem at all. But many of the titles that would have pulled off 1.5M earlier in the cycle will start having a hard time getting to 700k.

 

[Hellsing321]

Konami just needs to port Peace Walker to some system(s) that people actually want to play games on. Wii/PS2/PS360, whatever. As has been said by many people already in this thread, playing 3D action games on the PSP is not fun. The nub is horrible and lack of buttons doesn't help either. The hardware is poorly designed for that type of game.

 

[SimpleDesign]

Konami just needs to port Peace Walker to some system(s) that people actually want to play games on. Wii/PS2/PS360, whatever. As has been said by many people already in this thread, playing 3D action games on the PSP is not fun. The nub is horrible and lack of buttons doesn't help either. The hardware is poorly designed for that type of game.

It would be an interesting experiment for Konami to port Peace Walker to the 360/PS3 and sell it at a budget price. Or maybe it can be thrown in as a limited edition bonus for Rising/Lords of Shadow.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

I don't think not being a mainline Halo game had much to do with ODST not outselling Halo 3 (although it definitely had some effect). The main reason was probably that it didn't ship with a new multiplayer component (not counting Firefight), and multiplayer is what gives Halo its legs.

Err, i'm not a fan of "don't count this" arguments, but I do see your point. ODST was basically Halo 3+ which surely impacted it sales. However the advertising argument is foolish (Not saying you made it).

 

[NeoUltima]

Peace Walker not even in top 20...holy shit

 

[Aaron Strife]

What segment of those PS2 owners last gen own a Wii this gen? That's the important question. And the answer to that question is the same sorts of people that are buying Wii Sports, Wii Fit, etc. while ignoring The Conduit, MadWorld, No More Heroes, and eschewing third party ports of core franchise titles for PS360 versions.

Releasing only a Wii port would be an insanely stupid decision for a game like Peace Walker, but would make a lot of sense for the PS360.

I saw something a couple years back (so this may not hold as much water now) saying 70% of Wii owners were also PS2 owners.

Here's the thing - The Conduit sucks. MadWorld is extremely niche and No More Heroes is only less so. If you're expecting COD/GTA numbers out of those games you clearly haven't played them or have no sense of scope. They appeal to very limited markets (extremely hardcore gamers and people who like games that suck).

Third parties have simply squandered any good will they've had with Wii gamers, through piss poor ports and spin-offs. Look at Resident Evil. RE4 was a great port of a great game. It sold well. RE:UC was okay and came just as rail shooters found their home on the console. It sold well. REC belly flopped because of an oversaturated market and lower quality.

I don't think Peace Walker would do terribly on Wii. In fact I'm surprised that there hasn't been an MGS released for the system already. All that exposure to Nintendo fans that Snake got in Brawl.

 

[Massa]

Who said anything about being a "better" option? Stop it with this "one or the other" crap. Both.

As to "why," because it should be pretty easy. Same generation level of powerful hardware. That's why there have been several PSP, PS2, and Wii games. The question is why any game that is Western focused would be PSP exclusive and not at least add in Wii.

I wouldn't call a PSP game designed to be played coop with ad-hoc only "Western focused".

 

[Ushojax]

I don't know why people are surprised about Peace Walker. The previous MGS game was a turd, and the new one is on a dead system. It was never going to do well in the West.

 

[antiquegamer]

But why
There was ample evidence by early 09 that the PSP was a weak platform for software, particularly in the west, where MGS does a large portion of its business. Not surprisingly, the PSP's situation has continued to deteriorate, as 6 year old systems don't tend to suddenly spring back to life in the face of overwhelming competition.

How did Sony convince Konami to overlook this clear and unambiguous data?

Because they were hoping it would help revive the PSP, but as it turn out people have other choices for their portable gaming need, be it iPod touch, iPhone or iPad. The iDevice is probably one of the most popular platform for kids that moving from the DS. All my son's friends have one of the iDevice, instead of the PSP. My nieces, nephews etc are all playing on iPod/Pad/Phone.

 

[donny2112]

I wouldn't call a PSP game designed to be played coop with ad-hoc only "Western focused".

I wouldn't call MGSW "Western focused." That part of my statement was about general PSP to Wii ports (and the lack thereof) and not MGS in particular. The reason I threw in "Western focused" into the middle of that is that there is a reason why an Eastern focused game would be put on PSP and not Wii. PSP doesn't do terrible in Japan for software. Not great either, but light-years beyond what it does outside of Japan, and generally better than Wii does in Japan due to the lack of releases/"push" from third-parties.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I would think that Konami thought it could replicate Capcom's success with Monster Hunter.

One thing that bothered me in the leadup to PW's release is how absolutely cynical it felt from the outside looking in. It really seemed like they were trying to cram in everything that is popular in Japan, put money in all the right pockets, hit all those "You like this, doncha?" buttons, to make the game sell well. And obviously Kojima doesn't mind, because he sees this sort of thing like Hollywood does, a necessary evil. But it did bother me.

But Konami thought it was needed to be done to make the game take off like Monster Hunter and wasn't shy about expressing that desire. That's why they put it on the PSP, because Monster Hunter fans that liked that sort of thing would hopefully go out and buy PW.

 

[jay]

Because they were hoping it would help revive the PSP, but as it turn out people have other choices for their portable gaming need, be it iPod touch, iPhone or iPad. The iDevice is probably one of the most popular platform for kids that moving from the DS. All my son's friends have one of the iDevice, instead of the PSP. My nieces, nephews etc are all playing on iPod/Pad/Phone.

One day I hope to graduate from the DS to an adult system, too.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Putting PW download codes with Rising for an XBLA/PSN release would actually be pretty damn clever.

 

[seady]

If Konami is smart they would do an upgraded port of PW to 3DS at its launch. It will definitely sell a lot as it will become one of the biggest titles at launch.

It's hard to do a port on the PS2 though, because the game has a lot of multiplayer component.

 

[DangerousDave]

Meanwhile, NIS announce 2 very niche games for PSP in US.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Meanwhile, NIS announce 2 very niche games for PSP in US.

NISA's continued existence honestly baffles me.

 

[Parham]

Peace Walker probably would have been better suited as an Xbox Live Arcade / Playstation Network title.

 

[Busaiku]

Meanwhile, NIS announce 2 very niche games for PSP in US.

I'm sure niche games sell to expectations.
It's not like they'd expect 100k+ from them.

 

[Jokeropia]

i think it's more that wii owners ignore a good chunk of quality games, particulalry mature or third party ones

But that's an equally stupid claim.

 

[Spiegel]

The comments about a Live/PSN release surprise me.

MGS: PW is the longest and largest game in the series (20h main story/40-50+h gameplay). It doesn't fit the 10/15$ mentality of the service.

 

[shintoki]

Putting PW download codes with Rising for an XBLA/PSN release would actually be pretty damn clever.

There are a few of them on handheld where it seems like the market would have been better suited for a XBLA/PSN release. Chinatown wars was another.

The comments about a Live/PSN release surprise me.

MGS: PW is the longest and largest game in the series (20h main story/40-50+h gameplay). It doesn't fit the 10/15$ mentality of the service.

When a major release doesn't even pass 100k. It doesn't matter if it fits or not.

 

[Chris1964]

The comments about a Live/PSN release surprise me.

MGS: PW is the longest and largest game in the series (20h main story/40-50+h gameplay). It doesn't fit the 10/15$ mentality of the service.

That surpises you?

It would be an interesting experiment for Konami to port Peace Walker to the 360/PS3 and sell it at a budget price. Or maybe it can be thrown in as a limited edition bonus for Rising/Lords of Shadow.

 

[Vinci]

The comments about a Live/PSN release surprise me.

MGS: PW is the longest and largest game in the series (20h main story/40-50+h gameplay). It doesn't fit the 10/15$ mentality of the service.

But that's the mentality of this gen: If it's a handheld title or something not boasting the best graphics possible, it's budget.

 

[ElFly]

Well, it's true that ODST was a much smaller success than 3 (5M people played it), however Wars and ODST were not main Halo games and had nowhere near marketing push of Halo 3 (even MS stated that they chose MW2 as the game to push for last Holiday season, not ODST). That said I don't think they were failures by any means, Halo series was sitting at 25M sold (shipped) as of January 2009 and it's at 34M now. Each main game in the series was bigger than the previous one and there are ~8M people who played Halo 3 but didn't buy it (or bought it used or rented, whatever), so they are familiar with the franchise and might be on launch this September for the next big entry.

Or people are sick of Halo and don't want it anymore, we'll see soon enough.

But is Reach a mainline game, when it's not named Halo 4?

 

[jvm]

Spoiler

That's not a hint, but it sure does read like one. :lol

That's quite reasonable. Regrettably, MGSW is not something I'll be able to do for us.

 

[Spiegel]

That surpises you?

Actually it's not a surprise because lots of PS3/360-only owners think that any handheld game should be ported to PSN/Live and sold for 5/15$.



Edit

Yeah Vinci, I don't understand this line of thinking.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

The comments about a Live/PSN release surprise me.

MGS: PW is the longest and largest game in the series (20h main story/40-50+h gameplay). It doesn't fit the 10/15$ mentality of the service.

So charge more. $15 isn't the max cap btw.

 

[antiquegamer]

One day I hope to graduate from the DS to an adult system, too.

Yeah it's pretty sad now I have less and less excuse to buy DS games before I could tell my wife they are also for the kids now he have very little interest in the DS since all his friends are playing on iPod. My daughter still play with DS but we have difference taste in game.

 

[Haunted]

I would think that Konami thought it could replicate Capcom's success with Monster Hunter.

One thing that bothered me in the leadup to PW's release is how absolutely cynical it felt from the outside looking in. It really seemed like they were trying to cram in everything that is popular in Japan, put money in all the right pockets, hit all those "You like this, doncha?" buttons, to make the game sell well. And obviously Kojima doesn't mind, because he sees this sort of thing like Hollywood does, a necessary evil. But it did bother me.

But Konami thought it was needed to be done to make the game take off like Monster Hunter and wasn't shy about expressing that desire. That's why they put it on the PSP, because Monster Hunter fans that liked that sort of thing would hopefully go out and buy PW.

Agreed 100%.

But - apologies since this is a NPD thread and all - how did it perform in Japan?

 

[donny2112]

But that's the mentality of this gen: If it's a handheld title or something not boasting the best graphics possible, it's budget.

"2-D = automatic digital title for $15 or less" gets me, too. :lol

But - apologies since this is a NPD thread and all - how did it perform in Japan?

On track to be around the top-selling MGS games in Japan. Longer legs than the series has seen recently, too.

 

[antiquegamer]

But is Reach a mainline game, when it's not named Halo 4?

I think it's suppose to be a prequel of sort. It will have all new multiplayer so in a way I would say it is differ than ODST.

 

[donny2112]

I think it's suppose to be a prequel of sort.

Yeah, my "outsider" understanding is that it could reasonably be called "Halo 0".

 

[Haunted]

On track to be the best-selling MGS game in Japan. Longer legs than the series has seen recently, too. Will probably end up < but close to 1 million. Like the other "big" third-party releases on PSP not named Monster Hunter (e.g. Dissidia, CC:FFVII, KH:BBS).

Thanks.

Would be interesting to speculate whether those sacrificed sales in the US and Europe were offset by the gained sales in Japan.

 

[Chris1964]

On track to be the best-selling MGS game in Japan. Longer legs than the series has seen recently, too. Will probably end up < but close to 1 million. Like the other "big" third-party releases on PSP not named Monster Hunter (e.g. Dissidia, CC:FFVII, KH:BBS).

Peace Walker won't even come close to 1 million in Japan and has a very long way to go if it wants to outsell MGS2 and MGS3.

 

[donny2112]

Peace Walker won't even come close to 1 million in Japan and has a very long way to go if it wants to outsell MGS2 and MGS3.

Yeah, my recollections were higher than the facts. Went back and looked and updated my previous comment.

Thanks.

Updated my comments. Getting to around MGS2/3 is probably a better determination, which would be > 800K.

Would be interesting to speculate whether those sacrificed sales in the US and Europe were offset by the gained sales in Japan.

They weren't. Even if my previous statement was the case, it'd only be a 200K increase or so, which wouldn't offset lost U.S./EU sales.

 

[Parham]

The comments about a Live/PSN release surprise me.

MGS: PW is the longest and largest game in the series (20h main story/40-50+h gameplay). It doesn't fit the 10/15$ mentality of the service.

What's the alternative? Leaving it to die on the PSP? I'll admit that the game is much better suited as a retail PSP title, but at the moment it can't capture an audience outside of Japan. As it stands, Konami would be much better off if they sold Peace Walker digitally on the Xbox 360 and/or PlayStation 3.

 

[Zachack]

But that's the mentality of this gen: If it's a handheld title or something not boasting the best graphics possible, it's budget.

Most handheld titles are budget priced compared to console games and have the ability to be resold, so I don't see why the idea of handheld games on a console DD service for $20 gets mocked. Sure, I see the $5-10 strawman get tossed out over and over again, but there have been $20 XBLA games and Siren: Blood Curse on PSN was $40 initially, now $30.

Certainly in the case of Peace Walker, releasing it for $20 on two systems where people buy DD games and aren't as easily able to pirate them (unlike the PSP and Wii) would certainly seem to be a good idea in the west given what's happened so far.

 

[Magicpaint]

I don't know why people are surprised about Peace Walker. The previous MGS game was a turd, and the new one is on a dead system. It was never going to do well in the West.

I think most people though it'd match say Dissidia and pull 150k or so on the strength off the franchise. That won't be great, but considering the PSP software climate, it'd be OK.

But it's a different thing all together when the game is completely missing from the Top 20. That's just sad for a well made and polished game.

 

[The Technomancer]

Most handheld titles are budget priced compared to console games and have the ability to be resold, so I don't see why the idea of handheld games on a console DD service for $20 gets mocked. Sure, I see the $5-10 strawman get tossed out over and over again, but there have been $20 XBLA games and Siren: Blood Curse on PSN was $40 initially, now $30.

Certainly in the case of Peace Walker, releasing it for $20 on two systems where people buy DD games and aren't as easily able to pirate them (unlike the PSP and Wii) would certainly seem to be a good idea in the west given what's happened so far.

Right, but that opens the whole "should a games price reflect its budget" can of worms