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[The Grim Reaper]

Wii U did 42k? That's like as much as it sold in Japan in May.
Pretty bad.
Though not surprising.

It's especially bad because the Wii U is actually down pretty significantly from last May. I know that last May Mario Kart 8 was released for a few days but we (and Nintendo) have been accustomed to YOY momentum in the USA ever since last October (and throughout most of 2014), and this is the second consecutive month of YOY drops.


All of a sudden it appears at first glance as if Wii U's decline is accelerating. It just doesn't look good, even if the comps are tough this month.


But hey. At least it's better than the rock-bottom May 2013. That's something, right?

 

[ethomaz]

How did you calculate this?

Hummmmmm...

PC 1.3m from 4m

US 60% PS4
UK 63% PS4
EU + RotW > 63% PS4 for sure
Japan 99% PS4

If you use only 63% you already have PS4 at ~1.7m.

But EU, RotW and Japan have ratios bigger than 63% for sure... so you can guesses close to 2m for PS4.

 

[John Harker]

I'd honestly be more surprised at this point if Zelda releases solely on the wii u at all. I'm thinking NX launch window. Potential Wii u version... But if anything it's a TP-like dual release.

It just makes the most sense.

Zelda isn't needed at this point to drive Wii u hardware. Their financials with that platform are already determined and the impact of Zelda this late in the game will not have any tangible long term benefit.

Zelda is more needed to spur adoption of their next soon to be released one. It's the one ace up their sleeve that would bring the attention of the core, full price spenders back to them.

 

[AniHawk]

I'd honestly be more surprised at this point if Zelda releases solely on the wii u at all. I'm thinking NX launch window. Potential Wii u version... But if anything it's a TP-like dual release.

It just makes the most sense.

Zelda isn't needed at this point to drive Wii u hardware. Their financials with that platform are already determined and the impact of Zelda this late in the game will not have any tangible long term benefit.

Zelda is more needed to spur adoption of their next soon to be released one. It's the one ace up their sleeve that would bring the attention of the core, full price spenders back to them.

and it indicates to me that nx is being worked on furiously for a november 2016 launch. march 2017 at the absolute latest.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

and it indicates to me that nx is being worked on furiously for a november 2016 launch. march 2017 at the absolute latest.

Oh yeh, another rushed launch for a Nintendo hardware. Not like it was already commonplace

 

[Wolves Evolve]

and it indicates to me that nx is being worked on furiously for a november 2016 launch. march 2017 at the absolute latest.

Yep. NX launch first, then a month later for Wii U.

 

[Gaiaknight]

and it indicates to me that nx is being worked on furiously for a november 2016 launch. march 2017 at the absolute latest.

I 100% disagree i think zelda will launch on wii u holiday 2016 for wii u and there next home console will launch november 2017 cause lets face it there gonna save a console launch for the holidays for bigger sales. The NX big launch game will be the next big 3d mario that EAD is probably working on.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

I 100% disagree i think zelda will launch on wii u holiday 2016 for wii u and there next home console will launch november 2017 cause lets face it there gonna save a console launch for the holidays for bigger sales. The NX big launch game will be the next big 3d mario that EAD is probably working on.

EAD Tokyo has been working on the next 3D Mario since at least November 2013.

That will be at least three years as of November 2016. Three years is more than enough time to develop a Mario game if Nintendo wanted to.

Why couldn't Nintendo combine 3D Mario (for NX) and Zelda for November 2016 - March 2017?

It would be a nice one-two punch to get the ball rolling.

 

[Tookay]

I 100% disagree i think zelda will launch on wii u holiday 2016 for wii u and there next home console will launch november 2017 cause lets face it there gonna save a console launch for the holidays for bigger sales. The NX big launch game will be the next big 3d mario that EAD is probably working on.

They aren't going to keep riding the Wii U for 2.5 more years.

It's pretty clear why Zelda was delayed. They're taking a page from the the Twilight Princess playbook.

 

[bombshell]

Xbox One sales in the U.S. were up 81 percent over May 2014

lol

May 2014 was the month where they butchered their own sales by announcing the Kinect-less SKU ahead of time, so the spin here is more impressive than the result.

 

[Broken Hope]

Why do people always seem surprised when a game charts after 'only' 2-3 days of sales?

People realise that most games are front loaded right?

As seen in the Japanese sales threads the first few days are were the vast majority of the sales are with the rest of the month's sales being much lower.

 

[dallow_bg]

136k opening for Splatoon means I don't expect it to make the chart next month.


Terrible hardware numbers.
Wow at Wii U numbers. Close to lowest ever? Or new low?

 

[Mpl90]

Oh yeh, another rushed launch for a Nintendo hardware. Not like it was already commonplace

I don't know, honestly between the development teams unification in planning since 2013 and officially happened around June 2014, and the upcoming new membership service (launching this year), I feel they're trying to get as many things right as possible. Or, at least, that's my hope.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

136k opening for Splatoon means I don't expect it to make the chart next month.


Terrible hardware numbers.
Wow at Wii U numbers. Close to lowest ever? Or new low?

The lowest Wii U month ever was July 2013 at 29K.

Abysmally low back then.

 

[dallow_bg]

The lowest Wii U month was July 2013 at 29K.

Abysmally low back then.

Gosh, that number doesn't even seem possible.

 

[Striek]

The success of a potential Wii U successor isn't going to rest on the laurels of a traditional Zelda and/or Mario. It'll need a hell of a lot more going for it than all of Nintendo's "big guns" launching with it.

It will be a very small consideration for launching the new platform, and the platform will be a small consideration for launch timeframe for Zelda U.

 

[Mpl90]

EAD Tokyo has been working on the next 3D Mario since at least November 2013.

That will be at least three years as of November 2016. Three years is more than enough time to develop a Mario game if Nintendo wanted to.

Why couldn't Nintendo combine 3D Mario (for NX) and Zelda for November 2016 - March 2017?

It would be a nice one-two punch to get the ball rolling.

To be honest, I'd prefer the next 3D Mario to come out in Holiday 2017, if Zelda is there. I'd prefer the upcoming Pokémon X2/Y2/Z to be crossgen with NX: it'd be one main chapter of one of your most important series and a mid-main chapter of one of your most important series. I think having two main chapters of big series would be too much for a launch and wouldn't allow to get a costant flow of games. Not that there shouldn't be important games at launch (heck, I'm proposing the Zelda-Pokémon combo :lol ), but putting everything in the launch basket would be overkill in my opinion.

 

[Gaiaknight]

They aren't going to ride the Wii U out for another 2.5 years.

It's pretty clear why Zelda was delayed. They're taking a page from the the Twilight Princess playbook.

Yes they will Nintendo will give the wii u its full 5 years on the market before releasing there next home console. Nintendo also wont let the wii u go without having its own exclusive zelda game which will be the systems last big holiday title.

 

[AniHawk]

Oh yeh, another rushed launch for a Nintendo hardware. Not like it was already commonplace

nx is being made to absorb whatever the wii u's architecture was or something along those lines. it might not be based on what the wii u was, but it should allow for stuff to transfer over easily. i imagine this is due to wii u titles being moved over and/or worked on now while nx specs are being finalized.

I 100% disagree i think zelda will launch on wii u holiday 2016 for wii u and there next home console will launch november 2017 cause lets face it there gonna save a console launch for the holidays for bigger sales. The NX big launch game will be the next big 3d mario that EAD is probably working on.

ead is probably working on both, yeah. they could very realistically launch with mario for november 2016 and have zelda in march 2017. it wouldn't be the first time zelda's been a march game and it makes it so it rounds out the fiscal year. a zelda + mario launch combo would probably generate a ton of good will though.

 

[Tookay]

The success of a potential Wii U successor isn't going to rest on the laurels of a traditional Zelda and/or Mario. It'll need a hell of a lot more going for it than all of Nintendo's "big guns" launching with it.

It will be a very small consideration for launching the new platform, and the platform will be a small consideration for launch timeframe for Zelda U.

The basis of this argument being... what exactly?

 

[Striek]

The basis of this argument being... what exactly?

N64, GameCube, Wii U.

 

[AniHawk]

The success of a potential Wii U successor isn't going to rest on the laurels of a traditional Zelda and/or Mario. It'll need a hell of a lot more going for it than all of Nintendo's "big guns" launching with it.

It will be a very small consideration for launching the new platform, and the platform will be a small consideration for launch timeframe for Zelda U.

nintendo needs something other than zelda, but zelda probably isn't getting a bigger budget just so they can release it on the wii u in the waning years of its sad life.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

The success of a potential Wii U successor isn't going to rest on the laurels of a traditional Zelda and/or Mario. It'll need a hell of a lot more going for it than all of Nintendo's "big guns" launching with it.

It will be a very small consideration for launching the new platform, and the platform will be a small consideration for launch timeframe for Zelda U.

It's less about Zelda helping the NX be a "success," and more about helping Nintendo maximize ROI.

Zelda is already delayed. If Nintendo plans on rushing NX to market in late 2016, might as well wait for the multiple revenue streams of two systems than limit it to the aging failure. Twilight Princess was a resounding success, so Nintendo has precedent.

Besides, Zelda fans are used to delays. They'll still buy the title religiously regardless.

 

[Gaiaknight]

ead is probably working on both, yeah. they could very realistically launch with mario for november 2016 and have zelda in march 2017. it wouldn't be the first time zelda's been a march game and it makes it so it rounds out the fiscal year. a zelda + mario launch combo would probably generate a ton of good will though.

That sounds good and all except i dont believe one bit that they will release a new home console next year at all, but if im wrong you can gladly call me out on it but i strongly believe they wont release a new console till holiday 2017 at the earliest.

 

[Mpl90]

Also, I'd need to understand why is people clamoring that NX coming out November 2016 would be "rushing it", when it's 90% the handheld (form factor), which would release almost 6 years after 3DS's launch.

 

[Tookay]

N64, GameCube, Wii U.

So your examples are:

The N64 which launched with a key Nintendo franchise (Mario) and did well?

The GameCube which didn't and faltered?

And the Wii U which didn't and faltered?

While I suppose Nintendo could certainly make the same mistake, I think a reasonable company would look at the N64 launching with Mario 64 and the Wii launching with Zelda (and yes Wii Sports) and see there's a better way.

What other reason is there to delay Zelda and even bar it from appearing at E3 (an E3 which by the way will not discuss the NX) unless Nintendo realizes that it's better to stay coy about its platform status and have a full reveal with the new system?

 

[Striek]

I'm sure Zelda will be cross-gen. I just have misgivings that it's the reason for its delay. I've an easy time believing that the expanded scope of the game which is seemingly beyond anything EAD has attempted before has caused some serious issues with meeting the initial deadline.

 

[Otakumegane]

People are assuming too much that NX is a console successor.

 

[Aaron Strife]

So your examples are:

The N64 which launched with a key Nintendo franchise (Mario) and did well?

The GameCube which didn't and faltered?

And the Wii U which didn't and faltered?

While I suppose Nintendo could certainly make the same mistake, I think a reasonable company would look at the N64 launching with Mario 64 and the Wii launching with Zelda (and yes Wii Sports) and see there's a better way.

What other reason is there to delay Zelda and even bar it from appearing at E3 (and E3 which also will not discuss the NX) unless Nintendo realizes that it's better to stay coy about its platform status and have a full reveal with the new system?

Wii U had Mario at launch

 

[The Grim Reaper]

I'm sure Zelda will be cross-gen. I just have misgivings that it's the reason for its delay. I've an easy time believing that the expanded scope of the game which is seemingly beyond anything EAD has attempted before has caused some serious issues with meeting the initial deadline.

The budget for the game is probably very large given the massive scope.

Nintendo has probably had to ramp up development costs significantly from previous Zelda titles, and had to devote a lot of EAD manpower / Nintendo-affiliated contractors to it.

Another reason that cross-gen would make so much more sense in terms of maximizing profit than limiting this massive endeavor to a dying console on its way out.

 

[Gaiaknight]

I'm sure Zelda will be cross-gen. I just have misgivings that it's the reason for its delay. I've an easy time believing that the expanded scope of the game which is seemingly beyond anything EAD has attempted before has caused some serious issues with meeting the initial deadline.

Thats how i see the reason for the delay. Nintendo was so sure they game would be coming in 2015 i think something happened during development that forced them to delay it think about they have never done this big of a game before. Im not gonna argue that the game wont come to NX i just think it will get a remaster for when the system launches in 2017.

 

[Tookay]

Wii U had Mario at launch

A 2D Mario that few cared about and some even confused for a port. Ask most people on GAF whether that was a killer app.

 

[Obliterator]

I'd honestly be more surprised at this point if Zelda releases solely on the wii u at all. I'm thinking NX launch window. Potential Wii u version... But if anything it's a TP-like dual release.

It just makes the most sense.

Zelda isn't needed at this point to drive Wii u hardware. Their financials with that platform are already determined and the impact of Zelda this late in the game will not have any tangible long term benefit.

Zelda is more needed to spur adoption of their next soon to be released one. It's the one ace up their sleeve that would bring the attention of the core, full price spenders back to them.

I agree 100% and hence why the game totally vanished without even a release window. Launching the game now, would have very little impact on the Wii U's actual hardware numbers. If its not gonna drive install base this late in the gen why release it? Sure the game itself would do a nice number and get some profit, but if they think they can have a new console ready by Holiday 2016 why not just hold onto it 1 more year, polish it up even more, then release it to not only sell the game itself but also drive hardware at full price from the core market that will buy a new console at launch for Zelda.

I think that's 100% the reason for the delay.

 

[Gaiaknight]

A 2D Mario that few cared about and some even confused for a port. Ask most people on GAF whether that was a killer app.

didnt no 4.7 million copies was a few its also the best selling wii u game....

edit second best title glad mario kart took that spot

 

[Tookay]

Thats how i see the reason for the delay. Nintendo was so sure they game would be coming in 2015 i think something happened during development that forced them to delay it think about they have never done this big of a game before. Im not gonna argue that the game wont come to NX i just think it will get a remaster for when the system launches in 2017.

I don't doubt that this game had development problems, because every Zelda does, but that hasn't exactly stopped it from appearing at E3 before. TP appeared at three E3s in some form and that game was famously troubled.

So what's different this time?

 

[AniHawk]

That sounds good and all except i dont believe one bit that they will release a new home console next year at all, but if im wrong you can gladly call me out on it but i strongly believe they wont release a new console till holiday 2017 at the earliest.

this assumes nintendo is sticking with the traditional console/handheld model. i doubt this happens.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

didnt no 4.7 million copies was a few its also the best selling wii u game....

2nd best-selling Wii U game. Mario Kart 8 has shipped 5.11 million copies as of March 31st, 2015.

But yeah. 4.81 million shipped is pretty good for a title "few cared about."

Far better than the other Wii transplant failures (Wii Sports Club, Wii Fit U, etc.)

 

[Gaiaknight]

I don't doubt that this game had development problems, because every Zelda does, but that hasn't exactly stopped it from appearing at E3 before. TP appeared at three E3s in some form and that game was famously troubled.

So what's different this time?

Whats different is Nintendo is different the way they announce and show off games is very different that how they did it in the past nowadays for alot of there games they get announced and shown off then released only a couple of months later mario 3d world being a good example.

 

[Obliterator]

this assumes nintendo is sticking with the traditional console/handheld model. i doubt this happens.

Nintendo have talked about fusing the two markets together before. Look whats happening with Wii U / 3DS right now. Smash on both. Now Hyrule Warriors on both.

Looking ahead I think that's their strategy. 1 device that will be both their handheld, and home console. How that will work exactly, no idea, but its my running theory and would make business sense for Ninty.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

A 2D Mario that few cared about and some even confused for a port. Ask most people on GAF whether that was a killer app.

Few cared about but is still the second bestselling wii u game behind mk8.

So no-one cared but everyone bought it anyway. Uhhh.

 

[Gaiaknight]

Nintendo have talked about fusing the two markets together before. Look whats happening with Wii U / 3DS right now. Smash on both. Now Hyrule Warriors on both.

Looking ahead I think that's their strategy. 1 device that will be both their handheld, and home console. How that will work exactly, no idea, but its my running theory and would make business sense for Ninty.

a hybrid console would help with software droughts cause as of right now you gotta own a 3ds and wii u if your a nintendo fan to always have something to play.

 

[Tookay]

Whats different is Nintendo is different the way they announce and show off games is very different that how they did it in the past nowadays for alot of there games they get announced and shown off then released only a couple of months later mario 3d world being a good example.

But they didn't do that with Zelda. They showed it, a year and a half in advance. And again a year in advance.

And then they refused to show it. At the biggest expo of the year. The same expo in which they refuse to discuss their next system.

Few cared about but is still the second bestselling wii u game behind mk8.

So no-one cared but everyone bought it anyway. Uhhh.

"Everyone" being the small userbase of a poorly selling console? Isn't that indicative of that launch game not being an enticing enough franchise to launch a system with?

 

[Obliterator]

a hybrid console would help with software droughts cause as of right now you gotta own a 3ds and wii u if your a nintendo fan to always have something to play.

Exactly. Nintendo has to spend all of their time developing for 2 platforms right now. Also as has been proven the dedicated handheld space is shrinking. That said though there is still a market there to tap into, as we've seen with the 3DS. Its nowhere close to the original DS but still a decent sized market.

With some sort of hybrid console they could prioritize their development cycle to take care of both at once, ensuring less droughts with more games, could tap into the still ok sized but smaller handheld space, and still release a new home console for their core enthusiasts. It makes a hell of a lot of sense for them to do, but the execution of it would be interesting.

 

[Striek]

So your examples are:

The N64 which launched with a key Nintendo franchise (Mario) and did well?

The GameCube which didn't and faltered?

And the Wii U which didn't and faltered?

While I suppose Nintendo could certainly make the same mistake, I think a reasonable company would look at the N64 launching with Mario 64 and the Wii launching with Zelda (and yes Wii Sports) and see there's a better way.

What other reason is there to delay Zelda and even bar it from appearing at E3 (an E3 which by the way will not discuss the NX) unless Nintendo realizes that it's better to stay coy about its platform status and have a full reveal with the new system?

Few points of contention here.

The N64 did "well"? If you are talking about its launch then the GC did just as well. If you mean in general then no, no it did not. Other than that Melee was basically a launch title and was way bigger than Zelda or Mario on the GC.

Secondly I am not so laser-focused on launch, my point was that those systems show a clear decline in fortunes for Nintendo's traditional efforts, and that even if all of Nintendo's "hardcore" gamers got on board day one it would not be enough to sustain the system. If Nintendo does not attempt to go "blue ocean", if they do not attempt another "Revolution", they may as well not show up. If they do show up with the goods, it will not matter if they have a Zelda, a Mario, a Metroid and an F-Zero day one as long as they bring their "Wii Sports".

Zelda will be an afterthought if it launches on the NX/if the NX is indeed a platform that can play Zelda U.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

you've gotta be squidding me

Best post so far.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

But they didn't do that with Zelda. They showed it, a year and a half in advance. And again a year in advance.

And then they refused to show it. At the biggest expo of the year. The same expo in which they refuse to discuss their next system.

I imagine that Nintendo originally planned for the title to be released exclusively on Wii U by 2015 when it started development in 2011, but Nintendo corporate changed their mind in late 2014.

That's why it was announced in January 2013. And then shown off at E3 2014. Because that's when it was still intended as a Wii U exclusive.

 

[qko]

Also, I'd need to understand why is people clamoring that NX coming out November 2016 would be "rushing it", when it's 90% the handheld (form factor), which would release almost 6 years after 3DS's launch.

Commit the same mistake of launching during election season where ad rates are astronomical like in 2012. Uhhhhhh, is there any consideration to marketing amongst the November '16 camp?


Edit: 2016 is election season in the U.S. A time where ad space is at its highest because political parties flood the airwaves with ads. NoA has admitted to the 2012 election being a reason there weren't many Wii U ads in the U.S. During launch.

 

[yukianderson]

I think Sony will drop the price to 299 in October in order to derail Halo 5. They cutoff the head.

 

[Tookay]

Zelda will be an afterthought if it launches on the NX/if the NX is indeed a platform that can play Zelda U.

I guess I just ultimately disagree with the extreme phrasing here. I don't think Zelda being a launch title is the most important decision they'll make with the NX, but I don't think it'll be "an afterthought" either. It wasn't when they made a calculated bet with the Wii and TP, and it won't be here.

 

[Thoraxes]

I wonder what Atlus thinks of this number...

They couldn't have expected it to do anything glamorous.

This is why the $50 pricetag exists.