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NPD Sales Results for November 2015 [Up3: Combined Hardware For PS4 + XB1 + Wii U]
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
This deal keeps getting worse all the time!
Stilton Disco
Member
Tinfoil hat time:
What if ... it was all intentional? Everything.
Oh, not from S-E, what interest would they have to waste millions of $, mismanage a property worth $millions and devalue it, and pissing off the fan base they have on the leading current platform?
No.
What if ... Microsoft and Crystal Dynamics have been talking to each other behind their back for a while now, with a concerted effort and goal to both render S-E deeply unhappy with the Crystal Dynamics management/ team, but also in the situation of not knowing what to do with a Franchise that would have been run into the ground by a calculated effort from both MS and CD?
I know, crazy.
To what end would you ask? Well ... With the hope that CD would eventually split semi-amicably from Square, sign a check to S-E for their trouble with the Tomb Raider IP and walk off into the sunset with it ... To then find immediately a new home with Microsoft Studios.
Impossible you say? I would have thought so a few years back, but then again Day Break ran away from Sony with Everquest, Planetside and H1Z1 among other franchises.
Proof? None of course, it's merely insanity and conjectures here.
But ...
- "someone" stuffed S-E's spreadsheets with insane potential sales numbers (cf the forecasts for the first new Tomb Raider)
- "someone" has been super-pals with Microsoft since Underworld, and not really being shy about it. An ex-employee revealed some nasty stuff done for the lifetime exclusive DLC back then*.
- Somehow, Microsoft found leverage to convince S-E to sign away the temporary rights for 1 game a AAA franchise that was closely associated with the now leading platform WW, which also happened to be the platform the last game sold most on. Then made it an exclusive for up to a year on said platform.
- Somehow, MS after becoming the publisher saw fit to bundle the title in a 1Tb $399 bundle (instead of $349), which would THEN be exclusive to 1 retailer in the US AND not even be sold in the biggest European market where the franchise even ORIGINATED from (UK).
- MS then bungled the reveal of the exclusivity SO much, that they managed to make the backlash even WORSE than if they just had come forward and said: it's exclusive for the end of 2015, coming to other platforms later in 2016. It was mismanaged so much, for such a simple thing, that the announcement itself and its handling for the following month+ was mind boggling.
- Everything we have learned since reeks of sabotage, from choosing the release date to coincide with the OTHER third party title MS had a partnership with, Fallout 4, which though in a 1Tb $399 bundle, was in its case not restricted to a single retailer -And- sold in the UK.
I don't know...
I read this, and it sounds completely crazy, I know.
But ... in some deranged and insane way, it also sort of make sense to explain some of the stuff that happened and S-E signing on all that.
So .. no I don't "believe" that this actually happened. As I said, it is insane. But then again, if months from now Crystal Dynamics happens to join MS Studios, possibly bringing along Tomb Raider (S-E would be fools to let it go btw) ...
Would we be THAT surprised?
* http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/88589-Ex-Crystal-Dynamics-Employees-Spill-the-Beans
As utterly insane as this is, and I don't believe it for a moment, it's honestly hard to look at how comprehensively bad every single decision that's been made with this game has been, and not have the nagging suspicion it's somehow deliberate.
I'm more inclined to believe in incompetence rather than malice though. I mean this would be genius level manipulation if it were true, and it's way easier to just fuck up spectacularly and consistently than pull something like that off.
I'd not be surprised to see at least senior management from CD end up at MS in the next few years though. The heads of that studio haven't even tried to hide their raging hard ons for everything Xbox for years, and I still place the blame for this deals proposal and facilitation at their door.
No way SE would let them take the Tomb Raider IP though, if only for the mobile game and merchandise revenue. If CD left them, TR would just be given to another development studio.
cartographer
Member
Sure, but they were probably talking about this before the Xbox One even launched. The decision was never an amazing one, but it also got worse over time with every development, culminating in a specific launch window and marketing plan that was just putting the game out to die.
I'm just saying at some point it was slightly more defensible than it is now.
spatenfloot
Member
Does Chobel work at SE?
" I bet this will sell a ton on the Xbone!"
xDamnYouSalazar
Banned
I'm not as sad Tomb Raider didn't do better as I am disgusted that people are just straight up rooting for it to do bad.
anexanhume
Member
The Star Wars PS4 bundle has surpassed the GoW Xbox One bundle on Amazon 2015 rankings. 37 vs 39.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/2015/videogames/ref=zg_bs_tab_t_bsar#2
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/2015/videogames/ref=zg_bs_tab_t_bsar#2
I think it's more people laughing at SE/CD for being damn morons than rooting for TR to do bad. I think most everyone who has played TR agrees that it's a great game and paired with the original reboot has been a great series.
Basically if someone or something does/says something dumb, they get mocked. That's how it works on GAF.
gundamkyoukai
Member
savage LMAO.
But yeah everyone could have seen this was not going to work out for SE.
Also don't know why they did not move it up or delay it when they saw fallout date .
Primethius
Banned
It's actually been pretty steady since thursday...
It's now #1 for the month (was #2 yesterday).
I think that Microsoft and SE originally were planning on using the Uncharted release hype and give xbone players something to counter Uncharted. However since Sony and ND delayed the release, the game had no hype and no real big marketing to play on and got lost in the shuffle with other major releases (BO3, FO4, H5, BF).
This delay actually helped Uncharted and Sony by giving it little to no real competition in the genre when it releases. No one to compare games and say one is better than the other. This gamble has hurt SE and MS more because of this.
This delay actually helped Uncharted and Sony by giving it little to no real competition in the genre when it releases. No one to compare games and say one is better than the other. This gamble has hurt SE and MS more because of this.
The Mad Draklor
Member
Guys.
SE can still salvage this.
FF7:R Demo packed in with the PS4 version of RoTR.
Instant mega-seller
Pack in both a FF7:R and DQXI demo and maybe we can talk. Maybe.
Annihilation
cartographer
Member
So probably no week extension for the price drop.
Well, there was an Uncharted going head to head with TR ;P
No sane person could have known that UCC will sell more than TR and mabe even Halo 5.
chromatic9
Member
Did we get a decent breakdown of the 7 million? Also someone quoted you saying 8.5m with the DE. Whether its 6.5, 7m or 8.5, it seems TR sold many units at a discount later on and not most at launch like you say happens generally, which can be true. TR does have a big fanbase or at least people interested to a point but not full price or enough to buy an Xbox One
According to this recent article SE has said TR sold 8.5m inc DE
http://www.pcgamer.com/tomb-raider-reboot-has-sold-85-million-copies/
Just having a quick search for NPD March 2013 (sorry if wrong but seems reasonable-ish)
1.BioShock Infinite (PC, PS3, X360) (878,000 per Gamespot)
2.Tomb Raider (PS3, X360) (640,000)
I wonder how close this weeks neogaf posters estimates are and whether CD/SE are laughing their tits off, at the estimates at least
. Sure ROTR is low and huge drop off but who knows what units at what discount SE needs over time across three platforms to make this pay off.Does 640k US give you a clue of the announced 6.5 million in a little over a year worldwide (June 2014). I should note I'm not saying millions of units at a discount is awesome., I feel quite the opposite but TR is a funny franchise that possibly relies on discounts and casual broad appeal making up a large part of profits all told. Could even be we have a Halo 4 Halo 5 thing going on people tried the 343i game once and said no thanks to Halo 5, same with TR, tried the reboot once and no thanks to Rise of. We'll just have to wait and see.
One thing I'll remember is how fast TR 2013 dropped in price. That alone should be an alarm bell this is not ripe for paying 30-50m. Figures from my ass of course.
Neuromancer
Member
How many Xbox Ones did MS sell because of this game? I can't imagine a significant number.
Ill-conceived. This whole thing was ill-conceived.
Ill-conceived. This whole thing was ill-conceived.
Primethius
Banned
It's gotta be a fairly large number. I'm sure Best Buy has been hoarding plenty of stock for when the positive WOM finally kicks in.
Any moment now, right?
Welfare
Member
Oh yeah, that's one bundle we did not get info on.
DamonForever
Member
The triumphant return of Core?
I would actually prefer an English studio. The accent of Lara is off and some of the dialogue just doesn't sound like what someone from the UK would actually speak. Can't think of any examples off the top of my head but I remember hearing a few lines and thinking that sounds like someone using the words of an American in a (off putting) British accent.
Or at least hire someone from the UK to proof read some of the dialogue.
This is like the third time we've said pretty much the same thing about the same franchise at the same time...
Stilton Disco
Member
Well that's my dream certainly. Along with remaking Angel of Darkness and releasing it in a fished state, then doing the full planned trilogy.
Damn do I miss original Lara.
Also, yeah, at least get an actual British woman to voice her in a natural accent, with input on colloquialisms.
Did we get a decent breakdown of the 7 million? Also someone quoted you saying 8.5m with the DE. Whether its 6.5, 7m or 8.5, it seems TR sold many units at a discount later on and not most at launch like you say happens generally, which can be true. TR does have a big fanbase or at least people interested to a point but not full price or enough to buy an Xbox One
According to this recent article SE has said TR sold 8.5m inc DE
http://www.pcgamer.com/tomb-raider-reboot-has-sold-85-million-copies/
Just having a quick search for NPD March 2013 (sorry if wrong but seems reasonable-ish)
1.BioShock Infinite (PC, PS3, X360) (878,000 per Gamespot)
2.Tomb Raider (PS3, X360) (640,000)
I wonder how close this weeks neogaf posters estimates are and whether CD/SE are laughing their tits off, at the estimates at least
Does 640k US give you a clue of the announced 6.5 million in a little over a year worldwide (June 2014). I should note I'm not saying millions of units at a discount is awesome., I feel quite the opposite but TR is a funny franchise that possibly relies on discounts and casual broad appeal making up a large part of profits all told. Could even be we have a Halo 4 Halo 5 thing going on people tried the 343i game once and said no thanks to Halo 5, same with TR, tried the reboot once and no thanks to Rise of. We'll just have to wait and see.
One thing I'll remember is how fast TR 2013 dropped in price. That alone should be an alarm bell this is not ripe for paying 30-50m. Figures from my ass of course.
He mentioned the 8.5m included the remaster for the PS4 and XB1.
This is also a possibility. It is possible that gaf + critics aren't great arbiters of game quality, or at least the kind of quality mass market gamers like. For instance, AC: Black Flag by received wisdom, is some kind of amazing game, possibly the best AC game. Yet, Unity's first week of sales were disappointing. That is odd for the follow-up to a supposed great game, same with TR.
It is possible that making games for critics dosent lead to satisfied customers.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
XBO does not have a 18 million install base. Closer to 15 million atm.
That actually would be a good thing. Then again, there's zero reason they couldn't put that demo on PSN and save some disc space.Guys.
SE can still salvage this.
FF7:R Demo packed in with the PS4 version of RoTR.
Instant mega-seller
ULTROS!
People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
Star Ocean 4 being timed exclusive on the Xbox 360 is just as worse too!
I know SO4 doesn't have stellar reviews but it's still a "kinda" major JRPG franchise because the past 2 games sold more than 1m worldwide. Placing a JRPG on an Xbox 360 spells easy death.
Primethius
Banned
Yea, it's quite hard to deny the possibility given the decline just on the Xbox vs Xbox platform. Unfortunately the delayed release timing makes it pretty much impossible to tell regarding the PS4 version. A decline in the PC version should be pretty clear cut on the matter though.
In defense of the person you quoted I believe there have been at least a couple people in this very thread who have admitted to hoping it fails.
But yeah it appears SE/CD really screwed up here
LifEndz
Member
Not odd at all when many early reports and reviews stated that Unity had all sort of bugs and glitches. All the positive press that Black Flag accumulated can't make consumers part with their $$$ for a buggy game. That's not the case here.
Someone mentioned this earlier and I think they were joking around but they probably nailed it. Tomb Raider GOTY edition for PS4, and included is a code for a sneak peek/demo/trial of the FFVII remake. Hell, Sony might even invite them to PSX to make the announcement.
Primethius
Banned
After the Uncharted 4 DLC is announced for release in fall 2016, SE will renegotiate the deal again to post pone the PS4 version until Spring 2017 to avoid the mass murderer himself, Nathaniel.
Just in time to launch the game at full price, with no DLC and on the same day as Elder Scrolls VI.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
But why? Do they not know about Rare? Do they think just because MS at large has a ton of money they'll get funding for whatever game they want to make, when even Bungie, MS's best 1st-party until departure, couldn't even get clearance for anything other than Halo (hence the reason why they went off to do their own thing again in the first place)?
CD is just hopped up on a romanticized dream of MS when examples from reality easily destroy that to any dev with a head on their shoulders. I'm not saying MS is some Dante's Inferno type of hell for developers, but it's pretty easy to say they're the weakest out of the three when it comes to fostering 1st party talent to diversify and expand the library, and do so consistently. And it's almost always an issue w/ MS corporate, not the devs under their wings.
So why the hell would CD want that?
igordennis
Member
Man i wouldn't doubt it at this point. And if they do its going to be hilarious.
This needs more love. Rarely does a Star Wars meme fit so perfectly.
This deal has been a hilarious disaster. It really is a gift that just keeps on giving...
Full price... without any of the DLC. At 30 fps.
SEGAvangelist
Member
Has this poster been properly vetted? I'm pretty sure I know the exact source (who works for a developer that is not Crystal Dynamics) and I don't think he/she would want the information shared here... especially since it's straight from a private message board.
See below:
I've removed quite a bit as to not reveal the writing style of the source. I can provide unedited images of the entire conversation to the mods if needed.
gundamkyoukai
Member
NM.
Biah approved about 3-4 pages back if you're a 50ppp peasant like me
opticalmace
Member
He has already been vetted. I highly recommend removing that image before you get ban hammered for sleuthing.