Support NeoGAF

[cilonen]

You realize that Tomb Raider needed a reboot in the first place because the old formula wasn't working. If it's not dead yet, one sure way to kill the franchise would be to try to make it a pure 3D puzzle platformer. If anything, RotTR bombing means that it needs to go even further in widening its audience.

Personally speaking, I bought, played, and enjoyed the reboot, but was/am put off by the emphasis RotTR placed on going back to the old formula. I have no idea what the gameplay is really like, which is due to the muddled marketing the game had. Between that and the XB1 exclusivity, SE has turn me from someone who had Tomb Raider on my 'To Buy' list to someone not caring about their game at all.

The problem is that the original formula is so inherently a product of it's time. It's right at the very start of the 3D era with controls that proved to be great for one or two iterations but quickly got surpassed by better control schemes. Seemingly no-one can marry the original idea and ambition with a modern control scheme without watering it down to yet another action game or flat out remaking the original game. The puzzles in the original are largely built around the restrictive controls in a similar way to the original Prince of Persia.

The 2006 (IIRC) was alright but by the the end of that trilogy things had strayed towards action fairly heavily. The remake of the original they did with that engine was fairly decent though.

If CD want to make an action game they should use the Legacy of Kain IP and just leave TR alone untill someone can figure out how to integrate a tight control scheme with environmental puzzles. Hell, maybe first person is the way to go along the lines of Portal.

 

[AniHawk]

What does starting early accomplish?

i don't think 2018 would be early. it's much earlier than the 360's time on the market, but that thing lasted way too damn long.

 

[PeterLegend]

To be honest im surprised the xbone has sold this well in the US market considering all the backlash and power disadvantages. PS4 is truly making a killing

 

[Jigorath]

i don't think 2018 would be early. it's much earlier than the 360's time on the market by itself, but that thing lasted way too damn long.

Yeah I guess 5 years isn't too bad with the way technology is evolving nowadays. They're certainly not going to wait 8 years again.

 

[GreenTornadoX]

Updating Ryng-Tolu's post from the prediction thread

Top November NPD's


11) 1,296,000 (XB1; 21015)

By this rate, the Wii-U will beat it in sales by the 211th century!

Spoiler

I had to make the joke xD

 

[donny2112]

Just had one the most exhausting and busy days of my entire life. Time sit down and attempt to catch up with 26 pages .... (T-T)

Send halp.

This week has been terrible for me. Most stress-filled at work that I've ever been (this job has always been hectic at a screaming pace, but not with this many different hectic, screaming pace trains piling on me at once!), and the week at home has had it's own unique sources of stress to add to my bucket. NPD days aren't exactly relaxing, but compared to my life this week, at least this is some kind of normal!

Spoiler

Search for NDP_Mulcair's posts, and you're caught up.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

honestly while sales for both platforms are good (well for ps4, great), this talk about the gap doesn't matter. the game is played worldwide and sony trounced the competition this generation. i wouldn't be surprised if they stay 2:1 with the xbox one until the end of the generation. i can certainly see the ps4 selling a lot longer than the xb1 after the platform's been replaced in 2019 too.

It already going pass 2 to 1 .

 

[RexNovis]

This week has been terrible for me. Most stress-filled at work that I've ever been (this job has always been hectic at a screaming pace, but not with this many different hectic, screaming pace trains piling on me at once!), and the week at home has had it's own unique sources of stress to add to my bucket. NPD days aren't exactly relaxing, but compared to my life this week, at least this is some kind of normal!

Spoiler

Search for NDP_Mulcair's posts, and you're caught up.

Thanks Donny. Sorry to hear you're having a rough go of it. It's crazy how quickly things spiral into chaos. Especially when so much is being crammed into schedules prior to the holidays. Anyways, hope you have a nice relaxing weekend and get the time you need to recoup.

 

[AniHawk]

Yeah I guess 5 years isn't too bad with the way technology is evolving nowadays. They're certainly not going to wait 8 years again.

you can see in yearly sales in the us how the time was right after 7 years. the 360 started to drop significantly between 2012 and 2013.

i think that microsoft will start to position xbox in a slightly different way, so that you can access 'xbox' on more than one device for certain features or games. i kind of think the 8th gen is going to be defined as the last one with traditional hardware, and 9th gen is going to be more in the way of 'platforms' being kind of a software thing that drives the sales of different kinds of first-party developed form factors. i also think the 9th gen is probably the last time we'll be able to refer to hardware in the traditional generation sense, and each platform will start to have generations independent of one another, like you see with phones and tablets.

 

[eyeball_kid]

Look up media create threads

Thanks, that gives a better picture. Looks like the PS4 is picking up steam in Japan. I'm really excited for the platform going forwards in terms of developer support.

 

[Kralamoonard]

Thank you for telling me who ZhugeEx is! I will remember to avoid him.

Nah, Zhuge is a cool dude. He's doesn't pull numbers out of his ass. And he was a great poster before he got banned. He used to make great threads that were always interesting.

 

[hidys]

I kind of want to know by how much Blops 3 beat Fallout 4.

 

[LowEndTorque]

So the US gap increased by ~270K in November.

September, October, November and December is the playoffs. The rest of the year is just preseason.

 

[orochi91]

Here's why Xbox One beating Xbox 360 early isn't quite cutting it:

360 sales by year
2005: uh idk I actually can't find this, it's not that big though
2006: 3.9m
2007: 4.6m
2008: 4.7m
2009: 4.8m
2010: 6.8m
2011: 7.3m
2012: 5.3m
2013: 3.1m
2014: 1.3m

for that matter, 360's 11th November (72k) is fairly close to PS2's 11th November (80k)

Yea, outside of November and December, XB1 isn't anywhere near X360 levels.

 

[fuenf]

.

 

[Hydrargyrus]

Massive sales for PS4. Congrats for such a awesome month!!

2016 is going to be a blood bath with the lineup already announced, the 300€ price and, probably, the slim model.

Uncharted 4 sales are going to be really strong with an install base of 35-40 millions by the time

 

[AniHawk]

Thanks, that gives a better picture. Looks like the PS4 is picking up steam in Japan. I'm really excited for the platform going forwards in terms of developer support.

the ps4 is starting to absorb the ps3 userbase finally, like the ps vita did with the psp userbase. next year, it will absorb the ps vita userbase, and by 2017 it will be the only significant part left of the playstation ecosystem in japan.

at this point, i think we'll be seeing the nx and the playstation 4 treated as a single platform the same way western developers treat the xbox one and the playstation 4 as a single platform. nintendo fans get kingdom hearts 3, and playstation fans get monster hunter 5.

 

[Decado]

No TR.. Fuck sake MS.

In all fairness, would it have entered the charts even if it was multi?

I mean, #8 was freekin Halo and #9 AssCreed..

 

[donny2112]

Thanks Donny. It's crazy how quickly things spiral into chaos. Especially when so much is being crammed into schedules prior to the holidays. Anyways, hope you have a nice relaxing weekend.

Yep. Hope you have a stressless weekend, too! Oh, and Tomb Raider sold 200K and was in the 20-30 position on the chart.

 

[nib95]

Yep. Hope you have a stressless weekend, too! Oh, and Tomb Raider sold 200K and was in the 20-30 position on the chart.

Do you know how much it specifically sold on just the Xbox One?

 

[GobFather]

Yep. Hope you have a stressless weekend, too! Oh, and Tomb Raider sold 200K and was in the 20-30 position on the chart.

OMG so low

 

[Quentyn]

Close to no software numbers :/

Would love some details on Black Ops, Fallout, Battlefront and Need for Speed.

 

[Sayad]

Excellent numbers across the board, it's refreshing to see the game that ruined the IP you loved fail like this.

 

[Ninja Sharingan]

In all fairness, would it have entered the charts even if it was multi?

I mean, #8 was freekin Halo and #9 AssCreed..

With it being on 4 platforms it might have had a chance but I am with you. If it launched in november on all platforms I refuse to believe it owuld have made top ten. But the Jpegs and gifs are quiet funny I guess.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

I have to ask, did The Nathan Drake Collection outsell Halo 5: Guardians when we counting bundles too ?

Was basically every PS4 sold coming with the NDC ?

 

[donny2112]

Do you know how much it specifically sold on just the Xbox One?

We just have a total number and position. No breakdowns, yet.

 

[Bioshocker]

I'm honestly a bit sad to see that RotTR didn't even chart. I wasn't expecting top 5 but I did think it would snatch a number 9 or 10 at least. :-(

Good hardware sales for both Sony and Microsoft. But I think we can finally conclude that the war is over now. From now on it doesn't matter what Microsoft does with pricing or exclusive deals (it's not like they're going to get a GTA 6 exklusive deal anyway), they'll never beat PS4 even in the US. Apart from one month here and there.

Xbox One is still doing well in North America, though. It's just that PS4 is doing crazy numbers, making the XB1 look bad. And yes, Microsoft needs to do much more in Europe.

Ah, well. I'm enjoying myself in RotTR at least.

 

[nib95]

We just have a total number and position. No breakdowns, yet.

Appreciate the update and response.

 

[onQ123]

Here's why Xbox One beating Xbox 360 early isn't quite cutting it:

360 sales by year
2005: uh idk I actually can't find this, it's not that big though
2006: 3.9m
2007: 4.6m
2008: 4.7m
2009: 4.8m
2010: 6.8m
2011: 7.3m
2012: 5.3m
2013: 3.1m
2014: 1.3m

And people wonder why MS put so much faith in Kinect?

 

[Mahonay]

Thanks, that gives a better picture. Looks like the PS4 is picking up steam in Japan. I'm really excited for the platform going forwards in terms of developer support.

Ehhh. The PS4 has finally maintained a consistent drip of sales in Japan. As opposed to barely having a pulse. It's creeping up behind the Wii U slowly.

Console market is still dire in Japan. Meanwhile the 3DS just keeps pushing big numbers.

 

[Jarod McChicken]

In all fairness, would it have entered the charts even if it was multi?

I mean, #8 was freekin Halo and #9 AssCreed..

A first month of Tomb Raider PS4+Xbox One should easily outsell the second month of a AssCreed in total decline, I think ^^

 

[jjonez18]

Isn't that missing the PS4 number from November 2013, or is it left out on purpose because it was the launch ?

PS4 launch numbers were ~1138k

 

[RexNovis]

Yep. Hope you have a stressless weekend, too! Oh, and Tomb Raider sold 200K and was in the 20-30 position on the chart.

Yikes! What a terrible deal that was. Just fell apart in so many ways.

 

[Jarod McChicken]

PS4 launch numbers were ~1138k

Ah thanks, it was below then.

 

[Radec]

Obviously the PS4 couldn't beat the 360 because Sony was being complacent, unlike the good guy Microsoft. Unfortunately, Sony doesn't have an infinite war chest.

Xbox War Chest =/= Microsoft War Chest

Same goes to Sony and PlayStation

Nah, Zhuge is a cool dude. He's doesn't pull numbers out of his ass. And he was a great poster before he got banned. He used to make great threads that were always interesting.

Yeah. He wasn't banned by false numbers anyway.

 

[Markitron]

Before I go reading through the entire thread, can anyone tell me if there was a meltdown?

 

[Hoo-doo]

I don't give a shit if it's your favorite game of all time, honestly, because my comment wasn't even about quality.

It's an abhorrent TOMB RAIDER game that destroyed a true original for checklist game design nonsense that I could play in thirty five other games every year.

They could have called it RETURN OF THE LADY WARRIOR and gave it no relation to Tomb Raider and no one would have gave a shit. They made their bed, now as an OG TR fan I have a right to dance in the fuckin' rain over seeing it crash and burn. As it is my only shot at ever seeing a return to the glory days of what the franchise was always about. This shouldn't bother you one bit.

I'm not happy about any game bombing. These titles still represent hundreds of people working their asses off for years to create something they hope will resonate with gamers.

But I think you're damn right when you say that modern TR is basically a frankenstein built out of the selected best parts of other, better games.
A good game in it's own right, but the Tomb Raider branding is less than meaningless at this point, with them disregarding everything the franchise used to be.

 

[Javin98]

Xbox War Chest =/= Microsoft War Chest

Same goes to Sony and PlayStation

I hope you realize that I was just kidding, man. So it doesn't matter if it's factually correct or not.

 

[Kralamoonard]

Just to add...

Thank you for telling me who ZhugeEx is! I will remember to avoid him.

Nah, Zhuge is a cool dude. He's doesn't pull numbers out of his ass. And he was a great poster before he got banned. He used to make great threads that were always interesting.

Besides, you'll be avoiding him anyway since he doesn't have an account on GAF, and if you want numbers or doubt his , you've got them anyway.

I mean I'm not sure how you say you want to avoid him considering you have 'never' actually talked to him or interacted with him before, or knew how he got banned in the first place, unless...

 

[leeh]

Great to see both consoles doing well, shame to see TR not charting.

Do we have NPD people just floating around in NPD threads now? Great if so.

Surprising that BO3 sold more on Xbox, especially considering the exclusivity deal.

 

[slavesnyder]

pew. 53 pages...
seems you had fun!

 

[demigod]

I'm not happy about any game bombing. These titles still represent hundreds of people working their asses off for years to create something they hope will resonate with gamers.

But I think you're damn right when you say that modern TR is basically a frankenstein built out of the selected best parts of other, better games.
A good game in it's own right, but the Tomb Raider branding is less than meaningless at this point, with them disregarding everything the franchise used to be.

Why should I give a damn about any developer when their publisher made the deal to screw me, as a consumer, out of their product? You know, the people that paid full price for the definitive edition.

 

[Acquiescence]

Absolutely none. Sony was offered it and they rejected it. Same goes for Bayonetta 2.

You're an insider of sorts, right? I know you called out some stuff a long time before it actually happened, so this must be true. Wow, that's an interesting nugget of industry info. I guess Sony knows better than to drop money on a dev that's commercial poison by this stage.

 

[Ninja Sharingan]

honestly while sales for both platforms are good (well for ps4, great), this talk about the gap doesn't matter. the game is played worldwide and sony trounced the competition this generation. i wouldn't be surprised if they stay 2:1 with the xbox one until the end of the generation. i can certainly see the ps4 selling a lot longer than the xb1 after the platform's been replaced in 2019 too.

Totally agree. It''s not even a discussion anymore. PS4 is miles ahead.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

Great to see both consoles doing well, shame to see TR not charting.

Do we have NPD people just floating around in NPD threads now? Great if so.

Surprising that BO3 sold more on Xbox, especially considering the exclusivity deal.

As always, bundles are not counted.

 

[orochi91]

Great to see both consoles doing well, shame to see TR not charting.

Do we have NPD people just floating around in NPD threads now? Great if so.

Surprising that BO3 sold more on Xbox, especially considering the exclusivity deal.

With bundles included it's probably a close split, in favour of the PS4.

Other than that, give it some time.

It'll take a while for much of the FPS crowd to transition to the PS4.

 

[leeh]

As always, bundles are not counted.

Give it some time.

It'll take a while for the most of the FPS crowd to transition to the PS4.

With bundles included it's probably a close split, in favour of the PS4.

Ah, cheers guys.

 

[Hoo-doo]

Why should I give a damn about any developer when their publisher made the deal to screw me, as a consumer, out of their product? You know, the people that paid full price for the definitive edition.

Just because the suits at MS and SE made a piss-poor business decision, I don't think the hard work of the CD dev team should be marginalized.

 

[Ninja Sharingan]

Preach on. This is the best news for people who really want a true 3D puzzle platformer honest to goodness proper tomb raider game.

The chance of that happening is the same as the final fantasy VII remake being an exact remake instead of a reimagining. this isn't 20 years ago. Sorry to say

 

[nib95]

Absolutely none. Sony was offered it and they rejected it. Same goes for Bayonetta 2.

Why did either of them have to be offered anything? Why not just have the game be multiplatform?