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[2th]

I'm surprised LOTR beat the Bible, for once.

i laughed way too hard at this.

 

[Dead Man]

The Hyperion Cantos deserves to be in the top 10.

Yes it does. Such a brilliant series.

 

[Lazy vs Crazy]

American Gods is pretty awful. Shouldn't be anywhere near where it is.

 

[Dead Man]

Lord of the Rings is too high. It's obviously riding the movie success. Great books sure, but best all time? Not even remotely close. The story is rather blah if you really think about it. ASOIAF is far far better plot/character development and actually has real plot twists.

I'd move Hyperion up much higher as well. First book was a masterpeice and the second was fantastic in its own right. (I'd say 3rd and 4th too but I'd loose a lot of credibility by doing so).

I like Endymion a bit more than the first I think.

 

[The Technomancer]

Bullshit.

It should be much higher, if anything.

MUCH HIGHER.

Perdido had a lot of interesting ideas and a really flat execution. It needed about three passes by an editor and it could have left out a good 2-300 pages.

 

[xbhaskarx]

Terl is displeased with your list

 

[ZephyrFate]

Perdido had a lot of interesting ideas and a really flat execution. It needed about three passes by an editor and it could have left out a good 2-300 pages.

I can't get over the strong Communist influence of that book. I tried... but it's that and just how fucking weird it is that I can't get into it.

 

[markot]

I dont think Orwell belongs there at all >_<

They werent what I would call sci fi or fantasy...

 

[sikkinixx]

I liked the Elenium better than the Belgariad by Eddings, but I guess it did some like 20 years before.

And Terry Brook was on there too, my first fantasy series.

 

[Gaborn]

I'm more or less ok with this list (not because I wholly agree with it but because everyone is entitled to their opinion), however I do have one significant objection. Considering the signifigant number of SERIES represented {Shannara, the Dark Tower, WoT, ASOIAF, LOTR... etc etc etc etc) I see little reason to merely single out two exceptional books (Small Gods and Going Postal) from what is, in it's totality the better known (and overall excellent) series of Discworld. I voice this objection ESPECIALLY since Xanth made it as a series not as any slight on Piers Anthony except to the extent that I would consider Discworld a considerably stronger work with a more dedicated following. Also, for the record although I do not wish to remove either of those works (or rank them in any way) I consider Nightwatch to be Sir Terry's strongest Discworld book, not the two represented. Personally however I would rather have Discworld as a whole ranked rather than treated piecemeal as the list does.

 

[Alpha-Bromega]

I dont think Orwell belongs there at all >_<

They werent what I would call sci fi or fantasy...

dystopian futures are pretty sci fi, 451 is on that list.

ALSO

Anyone else relieved to see Neuromancer so high? it's what i ctrl f'd first

"the sky was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel"

 

[Dead Man]

dystopian futures are pretty sci fi, 451 is on that list.

ALSO

Anyone else relieved to see Neuromancer so high? it's what i ctrl f'd first

"the sky was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel"

One of my favourite lines in all of fiction.

 

[Count Dookkake]

Crap-lousy list, ratbrain!

fixed

 

[nitewulf]

are the Kushiel books that good? the covers always seemed like softcore porn to me...

Rama should be way higher, as in top 10. "altered carbon" should be there.

 

[Misanthropy]

ASOFAI higher than 1984?

nope.jpg

 

[Sirpopopop]

Perdido had a lot of interesting ideas and a really flat execution. It needed about three passes by an editor and it could have left out a good 2-300 pages.

Even if you consider the execution flat, it's ideas certainly make it a better inclusion than other series on the list - like anything from Terry Brooks.

I haven't read it in a few years (Perdido Street Station), but the execution certainly didn't seem flat to me. It was an interesting plot, with a lot of strange characters, and a really interesting world. So, if there was some bloat, I certainly didn't mind it that much, mostly because I enjoyed the world created by Mieville.

 

[ZephyrFate]

ASOFAI higher than 1984?

nope.jpg

I might be shooting myself in the foot here, but 1984 is surprisingly not as mindblowing as its hype makes it out to be. The concept is golden, and bears repeating in an age of increasing censorship... but the book itself has really, really wonky pacing. Its imagery is often deliberately obtuse, and I don't like the ending.

 

[Pau]

I'm more or less ok with this list (not because I wholly agree with it but because everyone is entitled to their opinion), however I do have one significant objection. Considering the signifigant number of SERIES represented {Shannara, the Dark Tower, WoT, ASOIAF, LOTR... etc etc etc etc) I see little reason to merely single out two exceptional books (Small Gods and Going Postal) from what is, in it's totality the better known (and overall excellent) series of Discworld. I voice this objection ESPECIALLY since Xanth made it as a series not as any slight on Piers Anthony except to the extent that I would consider Discworld a considerably stronger work with a more dedicated following. Also, for the record although I do not wish to remove either of those works (or rank them in any way) I consider Nightwatch to be Sir Terry's strongest Discworld book, not the two represented. Personally however I would rather have Discworld as a whole ranked rather than treated piecemeal as the list does.

Pretty much this. While Sir Terry's work can be read standalone, (especially Small Gods and Going Postal, maybe that's why they made the cut?) Discworld works best as a whole. Very few authors can pull off a constantly evolving and developing world, ESPECIALLY in fantasy where everyone is so in love with the idea of a stagnant setting. Agree about Nightwatch, but it's definitely one of those novels where you wouldn't get the same out of it without reading the previous novels. That for me should be the criteria for listing a series instead of just one work. Discworld always get screwed over in lists like these though, just because everyone voting will have a different favorite novel from the series.

 

[Misanthropy]

I might be shooting myself in the foot here, but 1984 is surprisingly not as mindblowing as its hype makes it out to be. The concept is golden, and bears repeating in an age of increasing censorship... but the book itself has really, really wonky pacing. Its imagery is often deliberately obtuse.

I've read the book you don't have to tell me what it's like. Orwell's book aren't the best written out there, just like how James Joyce isn't that popular with people because of the stream-of-consciousness writing, but would you place that above Ulysses as well? The writing style isn't supposed to be the only factor in what makes a good book. The concept is by far greater than the style. Also, I might be attracting the fanboys to kill me right now but at least it doesn't take Orwell like 5000 pages and over 20 years to get a concept through. (jumps into bunker).

 

[ZephyrFate]

I've read the book you don't have to tell me what it's like. Orwell's book aren't the best written out there, just like how James Joyce isn't that popular with people because of the stream-of-consciousness writing, but would you place that above Ulysses as well? The writing style isn't supposed to be the only factor in what makes a good book. The concept is by far greater than the style. Also, I might be attracting the fanboys to kill me right now but at least it doesn't take Orwell like 5000 pages and over 20 years to get a concept through. (jumps into bunker).

There's a difference, though. ASOIAF is an epic fantasy series with a scope many, many times larger than 1984's. The plot of 1984 itself takes place in a very small world overall, with several condensed scenes and not a ton of action. The writing style is fine, the way it is expressed is off. Writing style is very important to me when it comes to judging books within not only the context of their time but against established canon. Heart of Darkness, a novel of similarly short length, comes off being written MUCH, MUCH better than 1984.

If GRRM wrote like Orwell, ASOIAF would have only been one novel that takes place in exactly three areas with little action.

 

[Misanthropy]

There's a difference, though. ASOIAF is an epic fantasy series with a scope many, many times larger than 1984's. The plot of 1984 itself takes place in a very small world overall, with several condensed scenes and not a ton of action.

If GRRM wrote like Orwell, ASOIAF would have only been one novel that takes place in exactly three areas with little action.

Action + Scope =/= Good book

Condensed + 0.01*Action =/= Bad book

 

[Alpha-Bromega]

One thing that I don't quiiiiiite see, is the distinction between myth and sci fi/fantasy

like The Once and Future King is considered, but not Mort de Art or The Green Knight or anything of that effect.

I think the Bhagavad Gita is some pretty sick fantasy with some great depth!

 

[ZephyrFate]

Action + Scope =/= Good book

Condensed + 0.01*Action =/= Bad book

Books don't work in such a black and white fashion. I'm not acting on them, either. You are the one who used page length + time as some sort of justification for ASOIAF being worse. Why you're even comparing the two is beyond me. Apples and durian fruits.

 

[Gigglepoo]

Am I just weird that I don't consider certain books a part of this genre? Watchmen is a super hero graphic novel. Wicked is a fairy tail. The Time-Travelers' Wife just, um, just doesn't seem to fit. It's not based in reality, but I don't think that necessarily means it's fantasy. Are Frankenstein and Gulliver's Travels considered fantasy as well?

Dystopian societies (Orwell, Huxley) don't seem to belong either.

 

[maxxpower]

I'm surprised LOTR beat the Bible, for once.

You mean The Silmarillion? It's practically the same thing.

 

[Stinkles]

Culture series at 83 Demonstrates this is a combination of popularity contest, NPR reader demo and REALLY?

 

[Mumei]

Came to post this. Ursula K. LeGuin's fantasy books are some of the few fantasy novels that actually feel like old folktales or legends that have survived through the ages. Definitely my favorite fantasy series, along with Discworld.

Glad to see The Last Unicorn. Absolutely beautiful book that most people will look over thinking it's simply a children's novel.

What is the appropriate order in which to read them? The Earthsea books, that is.

 

[Themacabre]

87. The Book Of The New Sun, by Gene Wolfe
Should be higher

 

[Dresden]

What is the appropriate order in which to read them? The Earthsea books, that is.

A Wizard of Earthsea (1968)
The Tombs of Atuan (1971)
The Farthest Shore (1972)

Can't comment on Tehanu since I've never read it. Just go by the published order and you'll be fine.

 

[mavs]

I do not respect this list.

 

[Pau]

What is the appropriate order in which to read them? The Earthsea books, that is.

A Wizard of Earthsea
The Tombs of Atuan
The Farthest Shore

After that, the books become pretty feminist and change their pacing and tone. Some people like to pretend the series stops there. (I didn't mind it at all, especially considering how most fantasy and science fiction treats women - if they include them at all.)

Tehanu
Tales from Earthsea This includes some short stories that take place anywhere from way way before the first book to a story that forms a bridge between Tehanu and the next. If you don't like Tehanu, I still recommend picking this one up.
The Other Wind

 

[Slavik81]

Always meant to read 'The Silmarillion.'

It's the most boring book I've ever read. Don't.

 

[GillianSeed79]

Just happy that Dune is in the top 10. Enders Game must be amazing if it beat out Herbert. It just saddens me that no one has read The Jesus Incident, Lazarus Effect or Ascension Factor. It's like no one bothered to read anything else by Herbert.

Also, is No. 21 still in print? I searched for that for years in the pre-internet days and could never find a copy.

 

[Stinkles]

Just happy that Dune is in the top 10. Enders Game must be amazing if it beat out Herbert. It just saddens me that no one has read The Jesus Incident, Lazarus Effect or Ascension Factor. It's like no one bothered to read anything else by Herbert.

Also, is No. 21 still in print? I searched for that for years in the pre-internet days and could never find a copy.

The idea that Ender's Game is beter than Dune is one that Orson himself would laugh at. Ender is awesome in it's own way, but as different from Dune as Potter is from Lord of the Rings.

 

[BorkBork]

What is the appropriate order in which to read them? The Earthsea books, that is.

Start with the Wizard of Earthsea, then Tombs of Atuan, and then the Farthest Shore. They form the first trilogy she did in the late 60's to early 70's. I started out reading them as a kid, and loved Wizard the most for its adventure bits. As I got into my 20's, Tombs started to appeal to me more for its notions of faith and freedom as well for its vivid atmosphere. In recent years, the Farthest Shore has become my absolute favorite, for its reflections on life, death, notions of power and acceptance. It's a magnificent (I don't use this word lightly) set of books that had and continues to shape me as a person today.

After the original three, start with Tehanu. It's pretty much the weak link of the series, and is a little bit heavy-handed in its feminist tone, but it's a very unique take on typical fantasy, focusing on the unwritten aspects in the world of heroic deeds: women, the powerless, mundane day to day living, the terrible common evils committed by man. There's very little action, but it's a thought provoking read. Stick with it.

Tales of Earthsea is next, and is a series of short stories that fleshes out the world of Earthsea. The last short story ties Tehanu and the Other Wind together, but the rest are extremely good: "The Finder", "the Bones of the Earth", and "On the High Marsh" are my favorite. Her prose is second to none IMO, certainly in genre fiction.

The Other Wind is the end of the series. The book delves back into themes of life and death and ties everything up within the Earthsea universe, breaking some well entrenched rules to do so. But the great thing is that it all makes sense in the end; it's an extremely satisfying conclusion to the series.

LeGuin wrote the second set in the 90's and 2000's, they're much different in tone, not as young adult friendly, but very very rewarding reads and written beautifully.

Sidenote: If you can find audiobook versions of the Tombs of Atuan and the Farthest Shore, listen to them. Gabrielle de Cuir and Scott Brick have wonderful voices for the two books.

 

[ZephyrFate]

Just happy that Dune is in the top 10. Enders Game must be amazing if it beat out Herbert. It just saddens me that no one has read The Jesus Incident, Lazarus Effect or Ascension Factor. It's like no one bothered to read anything else by Herbert.

Also, is No. 21 still in print? I searched for that for years in the pre-internet days and could never find a copy.

That's another thing I totally missed. When did Ender's Game become even close to Dune? Dune is in a whole 'nother STRATOSPHERE compared to any other sci-fi series.

I mean... really?

 

[Gigglepoo]

Enders Game must be amazing if it beat out Herbert.

Dune is the best individual fantasy book I've read, but it's really difficult to rank it definitively against Enders Game. Both are absolutely fantastic, and should be read by anyone with even a passing interest in the genre.

 

[Slavik81]

Just happy that Dune is in the top 10. Enders Game must be amazing if it beat out Herbert. It just saddens me that no one has read The Jesus Incident, Lazarus Effect or Ascension Factor. It's like no one bothered to read anything else by Herbert.

Well, I did.

But for the record, he only co-authored The Jesus Incident, Lazarus Effect and Ascension factor. Bill Ransom was an equal partner. In fact, Herbert took a 90% pay cut on The Jesus Incident to force the publisher to allow Bill Ransom's name on the book. They had been willing to pay him 10x more if it were just in Herbert's name.

Frank Herbert's awesome.

 

[Dresden]

The Scar > Dune

 

[Alpha-Bromega]

Ender's Game is more accessible, readable, and all that. The world history is only implied, and relationships are the focus. Dune is pretty heavy on history and exposition IIRC

 

[Tapiozona]

Nah you wouldn't. Go for it. Endymion and The Rise of Endymion are incredible books.

Endymion and more so, The Rise of Endymion, are better books than the first two books in the Hyperion Cantos.

There I said it. I appreciate the support.

 

[x Power Pad Death Stomp x]

Wheel of Time is WAY too high. I'm slogging through it at this point and it feels like there's a whole lot of nothing happening.

 

[Gigglepoo]

The Scar > Dune

That's the book about a lady on a boat, right? How's that for a simple, stupid description? Anyway, I loved Perdido, but the other two books I read (Scar and Iron Council) were just lacking. The Scar started great, but couldn't keep a good rhythm and sputtered at the end. I love Melville's language, but his storytelling is inconsistent.

 

[ZephyrFate]

Endymion and more so, The Rise of Endymion, are better books than the first two books in the Hyperion Cantos.

There I said it. I appreciate the support.

Did you make sure to speak the language of the living and the dead, and hear the music of the spheres?

When I think of great lines in fiction, I think of those words.

 

[texasairhead101]

im actually surprised (in a good way) the Thrawn trilogy by Timothy Zahn is on their. never thought of them on their own but just as part of the star wars universe. great books along with the duology.

 

[Ratrat]

RA Salvatore? Old Man's War? Barely decent books right there.

edit: At least there's no Richard Morgan, Scott Lynch and Joe Abercrombie.

 

[ShadyMilkman]

Eh, I like Neil Gaiman, but American Gods wasn't that great.

 

[Mumei]

Thanks to everyone who answered my question about Earthsea, much appreciated.

 

[rando14]

Question for Wheel of Time readers who are up to date with the series: could I legitimately skip a couple of the crappy slow books without being hopelessly lost?

 

[Dresden]

Question for Wheel of Time readers who are up to date with the series: could I legitimately skip a couple of the crappy slow books without being hopelessly lost?

You can skip books 8~12 with no trouble. Wiki them.