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[Ether_Snake]

Fukushima Plant Released Record Amount of Radiation Into Ocean

The destroyed Fukushima nuclear plant in Japan was responsible for the biggest discharge of radioactive material into the ocean in history, a study from a French nuclear safety institute said.

The radioactive cesium that flowed into the sea from the Fukushima Dai-Ichi nuclear plant was 20 times the amount estimated by its owner, Tokyo Electric Power Co., according to the study by the Institute for Radiological Protection and Nuclear Safety, which is funded by the French government.

It’s the second report released in a week calling into question estimates from Japan’s government and the operator of the plant that was damaged in the March earthquake and tsunami. The Fukushima station may have emitted more than double the company’s estimate of atmospheric release at the height of the worst civil atomic crisis since Chernobyl in 1986, according to a study in the Atmospheric Chemistry and Physics journal.

The oceanic study estimates 27,000 terabecquerels of radioactive cesium 137 leaked into the sea from the Fukushima plant, north of Tokyo.

Tepco is aware of the estimate from the institute through media reports and has no comment, spokesman Hajime Motojuku said today by phone.

Nuclear Fission Detected at Fukushima Station

Tokyo Electric Power Co. detected signs of nuclear fission at its crippled Fukushima atomic power plant, raising the risk of increased radiation emissions. No increase in radiation was found at the site and the situation is under control, officials said.

The company, known as Tepco, began spraying boric acid on the No. 2 reactor at 2:48 a.m. Japan time to prevent accidental chain reactions, according to an e-mailed statement today. The detection of xenon, which is associated with nuclear fission, was confirmed today by the Japan Atomic Energy Agency, the country’s atomic regulator said.

“Given the signs, it’s certain that fission is occurring,” Junichi Matsumoto, a general manager at Tepco who regularly talks to the media, told reporters in Tokyo today. There’s been no large-scale or sustained criticality and no increase in radiation, he said.

Fission taking place in the reactor can lead to increases in radiation emissions and raises concerns about further leaks after another radioactive hot spot was discovered in Tokyo on Oct. 29. It’s possible there are similar reactions occurring in the No. 1 and No. 3 reactors, the other cores damaged at the station, Matsumoto said.

“Melted fuel in the No. 2 reactor may have undergone a sustained process of nuclear fission or re-criticality,” Tetsuo Ito, the head of Kinki University’s Atomic Energy Research Institute, said by phone. “The nuclear fission should be containable by injecting boron into the reactor to absorb neutrons.”

 

[Chiave]

This is never going to get better.

 

[Gaborn]

Cue people that take a poorly maintained 40 year old plant that experienced two catastrophic events right after each other and claim that nuclear power should be banned.

 

[Orayn]

Cue people that take a poorly maintained 40 year old plant that experienced two catastrophic events right after each other and claim that nuclear power should be banned.

Oh boy, I can't wait!

Spoiler

Keep digging that fossil fuel grave while praying for miraculous advances in renewable energy, residents of Earth.

 

[smokeandmirrors]

Cue people that take a poorly maintained 40 year old plant that experienced two catastrophic events right after each other and claim that nuclear power should be banned.

Nuculer power unsafe.

Drill baby, drill!

Spoiler

Nucular or nuculer?

 

[ReBurn]

Godzilla will be showing up any day now.

 

[Mineshaft_Gap]

This is just nuclear fission as it occurs naturally in nature. Anyone who tells you otherwise is a liberal fucker.

 

[Ether_Snake]

I was in Fukushima yesterday! Great sushi! Everything is A-OK!

 

[Gattsu25]

Oh dear. Will this ever get better?

 

[midonnay]

Godzilla will be showing up any day now.

my first thought, its like a self fulfilling prophecy now

 

[Escape Goat]

Sandy Frank will save us.

 

[Volimar]

I was in Fukushima yesterday! Great sushi! Everything is A-OK!

The best thing is, your testicles now serve as nightlights!

<thumbs up>

I'm in favor of using nuclear power to bridge the gap until renewables get more efficient. The future needs to be a lot more diversified.

 

[Barkley's Justice]

So where does this stand at the moment? They just sort of left everything "as is" for the moment? The rods are just sitting there leaking? No way to dispose of them, I guess? Do they ever run out?

 

[X26]

scary stuff how you can't just pull the plug on it in some way

 

[Myansie]

Cue people that take a poorly maintained 40 year old plant that experienced two catastrophic events right after each other and claim that nuclear power should be banned.

Building on an Earth quake fault line really wasn't a good idea. Is this plant alone though? How many 40+ year old plants are there? Even those against nuclear power could surely be convinced replacing an old for a new is a better alternative?

 

[Log4Girlz]

My body is ready Godzilla.

 

[BocoDragon]

Cue people that take a poorly maintained 40 year old plant that experienced two catastrophic events right after each other and claim that nuclear power should be banned.

I don't think this issue deserves the "You are obviously so stupid" style derision.

 

[NihonTiger90]

Building on an Earth quake fault line really wasn't a good idea. Is this plant alone though? How many 40+ year old plants are there? Even those against nuclear power could surely be convinced replacing an old for a new is a better alternative?

I agree. There were some awfully bad decisions back in the day when some plants were built (Diablo Canyon, anyone?) but the greatest threat isn't nuclear power's existence: it's the absolute lack of maintenance or reactor replacement that's been going on. These are not meant to run forever, yet energy companies try to squeeze every bit they can out of them and leave the plants in such bad condition that an accident is likely.

I can tell you I'd be OK with it by me if my plant were in better condition, but Davis-Besse is not because FirstEnergy is completely irresponsible as a company. Nor is its sister plant, Perry, out near Cleveland. They just don't give a fuck as long as it doesn't completely meltdown on them.

 

[Souldriver]

Cue people that take a poorly maintained 40 year old plant that experienced two catastrophic events right after each other and claim that nuclear power should be banned.

Regardless of my position on this issue, posts like yours are definitely a lot more annoying than any of the ones you describe.

The "in before typical responses" meme is ironic anyway when your own post is just as easily a typical response to the subject at hand.

Long story short: your post fucking sucks.

 

[Spire]

Nothing to see here, everything is fine. Please return to your homes. Oh, and don't eat the fish.

 

[acheron_xl]

So where does this stand at the moment? They just sort of left everything "as is" for the moment? The rods are just sitting there leaking? No way to dispose of them, I guess? Do they ever run out?

The rods have probably been a molten puddle for months now.

 

[disco]

What is fission? I only know of the Metroid variety. :-/

 

[brianjones]

Oh, meltdown. It's one of those annoying buzzwords. We prefer
to call it an unrequested fission surplus.

 

[liquidspeed]

What is fission? I only know of the Metroid variety. :-/

When an atoms are split in a chain reaction. a neutron is fired that splits 1 atom, the new pieces hit more atoms, and with each atom hit, there are more "pieces" - split atomic cores striking their adjacent atoms.

 

[GDGF]

Where is Gamera when you need him?

 

[Volimar]

Building on an Earth quake fault line really wasn't a good idea. Is this plant alone though? How many 40+ year old plants are there? Even those against nuclear power could surely be convinced replacing an old for a new is a better alternative?

Not building on a fault line really kind of handcuffs Japan. They really need nuclear power. This was a case of a perfect storm of bad things happening.

 

[speculawyer]

Meh. This is just small scale fission activity happening because the fuel is just a slag pile at the bottom of the reactor container or possibly spilled on the floor.

But it does indicate that it will be a long LONG time before this is all cleaned up. Decades. More than 6 months later and we are still waiting for it to cool down.

 

[DanteFox]

Oh boy, I can't wait!

Spoiler

Keep digging that fossil fuel grave while praying for miraculous advances in renewable energy, residents of Earth.

I laugh at solar and wind energy proponents. Once we attain sustained fusion, the battle's over.

 

[Ether_Snake]

I agree. There were some awfully bad decisions back in the day when some plants were built (Diablo Canyon, anyone?) but the greatest threat isn't nuclear power's existence: it's the absolute lack of maintenance or reactor replacement that's been going on. These are not meant to run forever, yet energy companies try to squeeze every bit they can out of them and leave the plants in such bad condition that an accident is likely.

I can tell you I'd be OK with it by me if my plant were in better condition, but Davis-Besse is not because FirstEnergy is completely irresponsible as a company. Nor is its sister plant, Perry, out near Cleveland. They just don't give a fuck as long as it doesn't completely meltdown on them.

And that is why nuclear power cannot be safe. Humans run the damn thing, and greed, profits, ignorance, and shoving problems under the rug will cause other Fukushimas and Chernobyls to happen.

 

[Cow Mengde]

Perfect time to make a new Godzilla movie.

 

[Gaborn]

Regardless of my position on this issue, posts like yours are definitely a lot more annoying than any of the ones you describe.

The "in before typical responses" meme is ironic anyway when your own post is just as easily a typical response to the subject at hand.

Long story short: your post fucking sucks.

and you're entitled to your opinion. I'm just completely and totally sick of irrational fear of nuclear power when it's absolutely necessary and it's extremely safe.

 

[Orayn]

I laugh at solar and wind energy proponents. Once we attain sustained fusion, the battle's over.

Not necessarily. There's definitely a place for solar, wind, and other renewable, they're just not viable as a main power source and won't be in the foreseeable future.

 

[FyreWulff]

Still less radiation than coal plants are pumping into our air every day.

Oh wait, I can see the smoke from the coal plant, so that means its safe!

And that is why nuclear power cannot be safe. Humans run the damn thing, and greed, profits, ignorance, and shoving problems under the rug will cause other Fukushimas and Chernobyls to happen.

It'd be extremely safe if we were actually able to replace all those ancient reactors. Everyone will gladly let coal plants be rebuilt as technology catches up, meanwhile we're running the equivalent of nuclear Model-Ts.

There was an administrative issue at Fukishima, but the plant was also 40 years old and hit by a double whammy of an earthquake and tsunami wave. It is now contained. Chernobyl was a reactor type that nobody sane uses, and was a worst of worst case scenario.

Pinning nuclear safety on this ancient and special case makes about as much sense as saying nobody should drive a car because someone's 1972 Cadillac burst into fire after being hit yesterday by a pickup truck.

 

[tino]

Cue people that take a poorly maintained 40 year old plant that experienced two catastrophic events right after each other and claim that nuclear power should be banned.

STFU. Why did they build the plants next to the ocean anyway? Japan is known to have tsunami

 

[Rorschach]

Long story short: your post fucking sucks.

I'm going to have to agree here.

 

[krameriffic]

And that is why nuclear power cannot be safe. Humans run the damn thing, and greed, profits, ignorance, and shoving problems under the rug will cause other Fukushimas and Chernobyls to happen.

I suspect that the net amount of radioactive carbon-12 spewed into the atmosphere by burning coal absolutely DWARFS the amount of radioactive material that has escaped confinement at Three Mile Island, Chernobyl and Fukushima. Of course when you dig into the subject beyond platitudes about human error... well, I'll just link that Cracked article about logical fallacies here. The part about understanding statistics is of particular interest.

http://www.cracked.com/article_1946...-that-make-you-wrong-more-than-you-think.html

 

[Finaika]

 

[Gaborn]

STFU. Why did they build the plants next to the ocean anyway? Japan is known to have tsunami

And it would have been just fine if it hadn't had one of the top 10 most powerful earthquakes ever reported hit it right before the tsunami. I'm not saying Japan didn't screw up in a lot of ways with the plant, I'm saying that some people take this tragedy and turn it into "all nuclear plants are equally as bad and at risk"

 

[Orayn]

STFU. Why did they build the plants next to the ocean anyway? Japan is known to have tsunami

You'd be a fool to think they didn't take any precautions to protect the plants from tsunami. No, they got hit by one of the largest earthquakes in recorded and by a massive tsunami, which is what we call a black swan event. What this means is that "Don't build them so close to the ocean!" sounds smart to you right now, but you're ignoring the fact that preventing all of the damage would have entailed preparing for an unpredictable event far beyond the worst case scenario. That is only possible in hindsight.

 

[Mango Positive]

Cue people that take a poorly maintained 40 year old plant that experienced two catastrophic events right after each other and claim that nuclear power should be banned.

My issue with nuclear power is the one demonstrated so well by Fukushima. In the event of a natural disaster, shit can go majorly wrong. What if a sun event fried all the wiring in our modern power infrastructure, making cooling of all nuclear power plants in the United States impossible? It would mean I'd have to high-tail it out of the southern US, which would quickly become uninhabitable for the next 10,000 years. It doesn't matter if it's not likely. It could happen.

Note: In 1859, a big solar flare known as the Carrington Event caused the telegraph lines to overload, causing fires and injury. This historical footnote, were it to happen today, would put us without power until we replaced all of the electrical wiring in almost everything electronic, including our nuclear power stations.

 

[Gaborn]

My issue with nuclear power is the one demonstrated so well by Fukushima. In the event of a natural disaster, shit can go majorly wrong. What if a sun event fried all the wiring in our modern power infrastructure, making cooling of all nuclear power plants in the United States impossible? It would mean I'd have to high-tail it out of the southern US, which would quickly become uninhabitable for the next 10,000 years. It doesn't matter if it's not likely. It could happen.

Note: In 1859, a big solar flare known as the Carrington Event caused the telegraph lines to overload, causing fires and injury. This historical footnote, were it to happen today, would put us without power until we replaced all of the electrical wiring in almost everything electronic, including our nuclear power stations.

first, a little context, we're talking about a top 10 of all recorded history earth quake, not just a normal little rumble like California (and Japan) regularly experiences. Second, nuclear plants usually have triple redundancy on their systems, I'm pretty sure modern nuclear plants are prepared for that scenario.

Edit: also, that solar flare was by far the biggest in recorded history, you're talking about something that is a once in a thousand years type event.

 

[Orayn]

My issue with nuclear power is the one demonstrated so well by Fukushima. In the event of a natural disaster, shit can go majorly wrong. What if a sun event fried all the wiring in our modern power infrastructure, making cooling of all nuclear power plants in the United States impossible? It would mean I'd have to high-tail it out of the southern US, which would quickly become uninhabitable for the next 10,000 years. It doesn't matter if it's not likely. It could happen.

10,000 years is beyond a gross exaggeration; I think you play too much Fallout. The area surrounding surrounding Chernobyl has somewhat elevated radiation levels, but has been habitable for many years now.

 

[speculawyer]

and you're entitled to your opinion. I'm just completely and totally sick of irrational fear of nuclear power when it's absolutely necessary and it's extremely safe.

Well economically is where it falls apart. The reactors are extremely expensive site, license, and build. And the potential fall-out (pun intended) from an accident is so great that we subsidize the fuck out of nuclear power with things like the Price-Anderson act. (Think of the value of all that land around the Fukushima plant which is now pretty much worthless.) Yet even with the massive subsidy, there hasn't been a new plant built in 30 years.

So really now . . . if you want to Mr. Libertarian, you should be completely against nuclear power. That is what the market has decided . . . even though it has been given huge anti-Libertarian subsidy! So it is funny to watch you kiss the ass of the nuclear industry.


I think nuclear power should continue since fossil fuels are dirty and finite. But nuclear needs to very carefully regulated.

 

[FyreWulff]

My issue with nuclear power is the one demonstrated so well by Fukushima. In the event of a natural disaster, shit can go majorly wrong. What if a sun event fried all the wiring in our modern power infrastructure, making cooling of all nuclear power plants in the United States impossible? It would mean I'd have to high-tail it out of the southern US, which would quickly become uninhabitable for the next 10,000 years. It doesn't matter if it's not likely. It could happen.

Note: In 1859, a big solar flare known as the Carrington Event caused the telegraph lines to overload, causing fires and injury. This historical footnote, were it to happen today, would put us without power until we replaced all of the electrical wiring in almost everything electronic, including our nuclear power stations.

Most if not all plants are built next to a river. They are shielded internally and would be able to cool off on generator power + opening the river flow into the plant. It'd make the plant unusable after dirty water was used to cool it off, but you're not going to have runaway nuclear plants.

A coal plant would have to be shut down in a similiar way quickly, otherwise it'd start setting shit on fire because the power it's sending out has to go somewhere.

Fort Calhoun was underwater for most of the year next to Omaha and we're all still fine.

 

[Enron]

excellent! Idiots have already found this thread!

 

[Orayn]

excellent! Idiots have already found this thread!

Darn those pesky people who disagree with you. (Whichever side they're on, I don't know your stance.)
Why do they have to be so wrong all the time?

 

[speculawyer]

excellent! Idiots have already found this thread!

Yeah, let's all take lessons about energy from Enron. LOL! He's clearly the smartest guy in the room.

 

[hydragonwarrior]

Isn't the leaking of the material into the ocean the bigger deal? The fission part of the article isn't as worrisome since there is a way to control that..

 

[Gaborn]

Well economically is where it falls apart. The reactors are extremely expensive site, license, and build.

So you're arguing that the licenses should be cheaper. Understood. Although "extremely expensive" is such a general term I'd be curious of your source.

And the potential fall-out (pun intended) from an accident is so great that we subsidize the fuck out of nuclear power with things like the Price-Anderson act. (Think of the value of all that land around the Fukushima plant which is now pretty much worthless.) Yet even with the massive subsidy, there hasn't been a new plant built in 30 years.

in the first place, I have to say, I love that turn of phrase "the potential fall-out from an accident is so great..." could be trying to convey "the potential COST in the EVENT of a fall out..." or "the potential FOR an event is so great..." or even both! Wonderful. Simply wonderful. 5 stars on the wording. The risk nuclear power poses is still extremely minimal and fatalities from nuclear disasters (chernobyl aside, and even then it was more negligence in the response of the government than anything) are extremely minimal. Coal is more dangerous.

Third, the reason a nuclear plant hasn't been built in 30 years is the fear mongering after the 3 mile island incident which, and most anti-nuclear activists leave this out, resulted in no fatalities, no injuries, and no adverse health effects. Fear can be a powerful thing, just ask South Koreans about fan death.

So really now . . . if you want to Mr. Libertarian, you should be completely against nuclear power. That is what the market has decided . . . even though it has been given huge anti-Libertarian subsidy! So it is funny to watch you kiss the ass of the nuclear industry.

I'm pro-science, there is no reason to have an irrational fear of nuclear power any more than I should support South Korean superstitions about fan death.

I think nuclear power should continue since fossil fuels are dirty and finite. But nuclear needs to very carefully regulated.

A wonderfully bland phrase that says everything and means nothing. I agree! I think we should EXPAND our nuclear power as France has done personally though.

 

[BocoDragon]

first, a little context, we're talking about a top 10 of all recorded history earth quake, not just a normal little rumble like California (and Japan) regularly experiences. Second, nuclear plants usually have triple redundancy on their systems, I'm pretty sure modern nuclear plants are prepared for that scenario.

Edit: also, that solar flare was by far the biggest in recorded history, you're talking about something that is a once in a thousand years type event.

In geological time, that earthquake was routine.