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[nkarafo]

I finally managed to make this work and it's amazing. Some explanation first so you know what issue this solves:

Basically, the problem with modern panels is that they have inherent motion blur, unlike old CRTs that have a crystal clear, sharp motion. High refresh monitors help mitigate the issue since the higher the refresh rate, the less motion blur you get. But only as long as the frame rate also matches the refresh rate. A 60fps game on a 240hz monitor will still have the same motion blur as a regular 60hz monitor.

Reaching 120/240fps in some games is possible as long as the frame rate is unlocked and the games can reach those numbers. Then you get better motion clarity with less motion blur.

The issue with old console games that you emulate on PC though is that they can't go above 60 FPS because they were made for 60hz TV in mind. So even if you have a 240hz screen you can't get rid of the dreaded motion blur in those games. You may use some fancy CRT shader, but it won't be as nice as your old CRT for that reason.

Enter Nvidia's Smooth Motion feature. What this does is adding fake frames between existing ones to give the impression of a higher frame rate. This is basically the frame generation feature, that was made in order to help demanding games feel like they are running faster. But Smooth Motion adds those fake frames on 2D games as well (as long as they run under Vulkan or Direct X, OpenGL doesn't work). So that old Sonic game on Genesis now runs at 120fps instead of 60 and that reduces the LCD motion blur by a lot. Still doesn't reach CRT levels 100% but it does look closer.

Ty it out. You can enable this feature through Nvidia Inspector or Nvidia's app. It works much better than other solutions like BFI because it doesn't mess with the brightness and colors.

Also, is there someone who is familiar with the feature? I would like to know if this only doubles the frame rate.
Since i have a 240hz screen, i could go 4x, which is possible with frame generation but i'm not sure is Smooth Motion can do that.

 

[Doggyred]

With only 3x the input lag

 

[nkarafo]

With only 3x the input lag

Didn't notice any added lag because on my 240hz monitor it's already too low. You can also enable the reflex setting to compensate but i didn't have to do that, so far the games feel fine to me.

 

[IAmRei]

This is too technical for me, as for CRT I usually using reshade or shader developed for emulators.
I'm obsessed with CRT though : ))
Emulator or 2000s games without CRT or Scanline is kinda bugs me
My monitor only 144hz though

 

[nkarafo]

My monitor only 144hz though

It's still good for 120fps so smooth motion should work well with this for 60hz locked games.

 

[Ellis]

My CRT at 75-80 Hertz still has better motion than my IPS monitor at 240.

 

[Zathalus]

That really the main function of frame generation and such. Nvidia likes to advertise it as extra performance but it's not, it's just much better motion clarity.

 

[nkarafo]

My CRT at 75-80 Hertz still has better motion than my IPS monitor at 240.

True. I played Monster Boy, a PC native 2D scrolling game with unlocked frame rate, at 240fps. And while it's close to the CRT clarity, it's not 100% there. I would say you need 360hz/fps for that.

But 240fps is very clean. I use a smooth scrolling setting on my Firefox browser so i can read text while i scroll. I could do that on my old CRT monitor but not on a 60hz LCD.

 

[Fafalada]

so far the games feel fine to me.

Good for you - maybe you can also play them through GFNow to add even more latency.
But for me, - in 2d games more latency + made-up pixels artifacting is a lose-lose scenario - not a win.
And as people note - 240hz doesn't reach CRT clarity - while strobbing shader actually gets much closer without any of the other negatives.

 

[Soodanim]

In the Lossless Scaling thread people ask "What is the point of this program?" This thread is the answer. Whack on one of its multipliers and see how well it does.

Another thing worth mentioning is that RetroArch now supports a CRT-like rolling scanline shader but you will need a high hz monitor to take advantage of it. The last time I tried it on my 180hz I couldn't get rid of the stuck scanline, but I don't know if that's fixable. Haven't tried in a while.

 

[Prekk]

Good for you - maybe you can also play them through GFNow to add even more latency.
But for me, - in 2d games more latency + made-up pixels artifacting is a lose-lose scenario - not a win.
And as people note - 240hz doesn't reach CRT clarity - while strobbing shader actually gets much closer without any of the other negatives.

Agreed.

I'd say BFI and strobing methods are much better than messing with the animations in 2D games with generated frames and potentially adding even more input lag.

If you're really into old games just invest in a good crt tv and monitor. It's worth it.

 

[DirtInUrEye]

No thanks, I don't have any inclination to pretend I'm still playing games in 1994.

 

[nkarafo]

Good for you - maybe you can also play them through GFNow to add even more latency.
But for me, - in 2d games more latency + made-up pixels artifacting is a lose-lose scenario - not a win.

Have you actually tried it on a 2D game?

I hate latency and i'm sensitive enough to it. But honestly, trying this with RetroArch or yuzu didn't feel any different. This comes from someone who refused to play DOOM on Switch, due to lag compared to how i play on PC.

I also have low latency enabled from the Nvidia settings. My setup has extremely low latency as it is, i believe there's enough breathing room to allow a bit more before i notice a difference.

I didn't notice any artifacts on a 2D game yet, i did notice them on Cyberpunk though.

And as people note - 240hz doesn't reach CRT clarity - while strobbing shader actually gets much closer without any of the other negatives.

I'd say BFI and strobing methods are much better than messing with the animations in 2D games with generated frames and potentially adding even more input lag.

This strobbing shader doesn't work correctly for me. It produces a horizontal stripe where all colors inside it are messed up.

I was told i can't do anything about it and that it's simply incompatible with my monitor's hardware.

No thanks, I don't have any inclination to pretend I'm still playing games in 1994.

Having cleaner motion without blur isn't retro. It's jut nice.

 

[nkarafo]

Another thing worth mentioning is that RetroArch now supports a CRT-like rolling scanline shader but you will need a high hz monitor to take advantage of it. The last time I tried it on my 180hz I couldn't get rid of the stuck scanline, but I don't know if that's fixable. Haven't tried in a while.

I'm not sure if we have the same issue but i also get a stripe that doesn't go away with this. And mine is a 240hz monitor.

Someone told me its because the monitor does 8bit color or something along those lines. And that it won't work on any monitor that has this 8bit issue. Which means the shader is not compatible with all high refresh monitors.

 

[Soodanim]

I'm not sure if we have the same issue but i also get a stripe that doesn't go away with this. And mine is a 240hz monitor.

Someone told me it's because the monitor does 8bit color or something along those lines. And that it won't work on any monitor that has this 8bit issue. Which means the shader is not compatible with all high refresh monitors.

That sounds about the same, perhaps that is it. Unfortunate, but maybe on my next upgrade in 5 years I'll be able to play games from 30-40 years prior with optimal visuals...

 

[The Cockatrice]

Didnt test on 2d, but on normal games, the resolution quality drops significantly or just makes it blurry af as if using a very agressive TAA. No thanks.

 

[Knightime_X]

With only 3x the input lag

A good way to test this is play Mega Man 2: Bubble mans stage.
If you can jump across the platforms without them falling then there's no noticable input lag

 

[Holammer]

Boy finally did it!
Now the new hotness is to use Shaderglass to inject BFI/Beam Simulator on everything, even modern games.
Linneman talked about it on DF yesterday (timestamp).



Here's a Beam Simulator specific alpha build if you want to try. But it really needs an OLED display, I get a couple of vertical beams slowly moving upwards, but the image clarity is there.
(edit: I'm a dumbass, did additional testing, the beams are a feature and can be turned off in shader parameters.)

ShaderGlass v1.2.1-bfi-alpha3 · mausimus ShaderGlass · Discussion #202

UPDATED ALPHA VERSION OF BFI / BLUR BUSTERS CRT BEAM SIMULATOR EXPERIMENT This is an experimental branch of ShaderGlass dedicated to BFI & Blur Busters CRT Beam Simulator shaders. Visit https://blu...

github.com

A good way to test this is play Mega Man 2: Bubble mans stage.
If you can jump across the platforms without them falling then there's no noticable input lag

I tested it on Super Mario World & Black Dragon, Smooth Motion felt a lot better, the low latency mode seems to shave off enough MS of lag to be noticeable.
We need someone with a high speed camera setup comparing.

 

[Fafalada]

Have you actually tried it on a 2D game?

I have - to be clear I find interpolators - not great in motion across the board but IME 2d tends to be particularly poor*.
But I'll concede that in absence of any other options - extra clarity 'can' be nice (at least that's a tradeoff for the artifacts I'd accept) - but unless playing something like Advance Wars, I just don't care for the input latency.

* if this was a game-native interpolation for 2d games, it 'might' be better, but working off of just colour buffers is the worst of both worlds for quality and latency alike.
Also do note that mileage might vary - lots of emulation out there has piss poor input latency (compared to original hw) to begin with (hell I found PCSX2 nearly un-useable until recent updates that finally allow low-latency - at steep performance penalty) - so I'd not want to make that even worse.

 

[nkarafo]

Now the new hotness is to use Shaderglass to inject BFI/Beam Simulator on everything, even modern games.

Unfortunately, this is another thing i can't use because it doesn't work correctly for me.

Whenever i open it there's this ugly yellow line around the screen. And again, no fix for this because apparently it's a Windows 10 issue and i need to install Windows 11.

I'm not going to use Windows 11 just for this one app.

 

[mèx]

I never used Nvidia's Smooth Motion but I use Lossless Scaling quite a bit.

Playing side scrolling 2D games at 60 FPS on an OLED with near instant pixel response time feels awful. They can really look juddery, the latest example being Ninja Gaiden Ragebound. Those kind of games should run at 120 FPS as a minimum on a modern OLED monitor. Ideally you should be able to push them to the full refresh rate of your monitor.

Low framerate is more noticeable on side scrolling 2D games then 3D games. In turn, when you increase the framerate the smoothness is incredibly more apparent on side scrolling 2D games than 3D games. Most likely it's due to the constant scrolling intrinsic to these kind of games.

Lossless Scaling can help a lot, as long as the game does not use overly complex rendering pipeline with tons of transparencies or particles. For example, in Ninja Gaiden Ragebound it works quite decently, aside from a few sections where the interpolation artifacts are visible in normal gameplay. There are also other artifacts but they are basically invisible in normal gameplay, e.g. around the hud.

The hit in input latency is almost worth it in my experience, as long as the interpolation artifacts are not disrupting the experience of course. And this applies only if you are playing with a gamepad, with a mouse it's a different story.

If you are running a dual GPU set-up you can reduce the latency hit even more.