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[Jag]

If some Russians blew up a school of other Russians, you also wouldn't see the same solidarity as you do with Orlando, Paris, etc. It's not just race, religion, that separates us, it's culture.

 

[7DollarHagane]

It's something you hear about so often in those areas that people aren't shocked anymore. I feel like I've been hearing about middle eastern suicide bombings for 20+ years now on and off.

I don't think it's reason to call people prejudiced or insensitive. People feel the same way hearing reports about Mexican drug cartel violence. It happens and nobody is doing anything effective to stop it so it's not a surprise.

 

[giga]

If some Russians blew up a school of other Russians, you also wouldn't see the same solidarity as you do with Orlando, Paris, etc. It's not just race, religion, that separates us, it's culture.

"Some" Russians is not the same thing as ISIS attacks that have targeted both western and Muslim nations that have bred a growing distrust of Muslims in the former.

 

[kruis]

In this age of satellites and worldwide travel I really question if this continues to be true. The world has become astoundingly small to us. Think it has more to do with people who look like our majority. That is, white people sympathizing more with other white people.

It's not race, it's culture and shared history. There's a strong link between the US and western Europe, but it's far weaker between the US and the rest of the world. That's why a terrorist attack in Paris hits harder than one in Moscow, Buenos Aires or Addis Ababa.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

It's not race, it's culture and shared history. There's a strong link between the US and western Europe, but it's far weaker between the US and the rest of the world. That's why a terrorist attack in Paris hits harder than one in Moscow, Buenos Aires or Addis Ababa.

Maybe. But at the same time I don't see many Americans caring about what happens to people in Mexico, and they're literally connected to us.

 

[Teletraan1]

Where are those countries governments? When shit blows up in the West no matter what side of the political landscape you are on there is a bunch of deliberation on how this could happen, measures are taken to prevent that event from happening again, the people responsible are brought to justice if possible and at worst there is a dialogue on why this happened and how we can avoid it in the future. I don't see the same response from any of those 5 countries listed as they don't seem to have a proper government that actually cares about the wellbeing of their citizens or is not properly equipped to respond in kind to such aggression.. When you are faced with such inaction of course this will keep happening and of course people will be desensitized by events that become commonplace. There should be no such thing as a refugee if there was a properly functional government/military/police in those countries.

 

[AaronB]

To many Americans, those countries probably all register as places where that kind of thing just happens. The Istanbul airport attack was covered pretty extensively in the media where I'm at now, though (Twin Cities, US). That's also likely the most significant attack in a geopolitical sense, because it may push Turkey to go on the warpath against ISIS.

There's also generally less outrage when the perpetrators are in the same "group" as the victims. Look at the silence about Idi Amin's massacres of fellow blacks compared to the outrage against the apartheid regime in South Africa.

 

[Shaanyboi]

Because it's easy to dismiss the deaths of brown people as "not being particularly interesting".

 

[n00bsauce87]

If the city/country in question is perceived that a terrorist attack is likely to happen, then society doesn't care and sees it as something bound to happen. That's why this latest terrorist attack is like meh in the news world. It doesn't bring people to the website to generate that ad revenue.

 

[Bel Marduk]

Yet Muslims around the world are expected to care if something happens in the West. Or else they are supporters or as some would prefer to call them passive terrorists.

I do care about the people who were killed in Medina but two of my friends were killed in the Orlando shooting and Saudi Arabia executes people for gay sex. I understand that the House of Saud is not the people of that country but if they condemn THAT attack in Orlando and continue to kill us, those words ring very hollow.

 

[kiguel182]

It's sad the difference of reactions. It seems like some human lives are worth more than others and it's just sad.

I guess because it's far away people don't care. They are also Muslims so some people also won't care because of that unfortunely.

It's sad.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Because people are ignorant and don't realize that ISIS and similar groups are at war with traditional Islam. No thanks to idiots like trump, a number of Americans think most Muslims are either in support of terrorists or don't care enough to "do something about it."

A woman at work said about the weekend attacks: "oh they're killing each other now. They did it to themselves I guess." I avoided making a thing about it, there's no reasoning with someone who voluntarily listens to rush Limbaugh all day.

 

[nilbog21]

I mean, the Muslim world widely regards the western world as a culture of sin and vice and this is a contributing factor behind every attack in the west on some level.

Every time there is an attack by ISIS in the middle east I know that in the back of everyone's mind is some relief that it did not happen here.

When attacks occur in the west, we know that the victims are people who have similar values as us. Namely, people that value cultural inclusivity...

When it occurs in the middle east, we know fuck all about the the people that are affected or its current cultural climate. For all we know it's affecting people who view women as trash, see homosexuality or christianity as a crime punishable by death, and find it permissible to beat your wife for reasons we find trivial. We just don't fucking know, and we can't fucking relate.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

Terrorism happening to Muslims in Middle Eastern countries doesn't instill fear in some shitty American's heart, therefore they don't give a fuuuuuuuuck.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Maybe Skull Face was right, and it's language related.

 

[Tuck]

A few reasons:

1. I care more about a fire in my kitchen, or my neighbor's kitchen, than a fire in the kitchen of someone three blocks away who I don't know.

2. I care about a fire when it happens unexpectedly, in a place fires usually do not happen. But if that neighbor a few blocks down keeps having fires, eventually I start to care less and less than I already do.

Its really not complicated to understand why the West doesn't pay much attention to bombings in the middle eats. Theres always bombings in the middle east. Eventually you just become desensitized.

 

[The Technomancer]

...this is a hard topic for me to discuss without getting back into my...controversial opinions about the initial reaction to the Charlie Hebdo shootings

 

[starchild excalibur]

A lot of people view it as par for the course. It's the same reason why you don't see a ton of outrage over any given rash of shootings in Chicago. "Oh, that's just how it's like over there," and all.

 

[backflip10019]

A few reasons:

1. I care more about a fire in my kitchen, or my neighbor's kitchen, than a fire in the kitchen of someone three blocks away who I don't know.

2. I care about a fire when it happens unexpectedly, in a place fires usually do not happen. But if that neighbor a few blocks down keeps having fires, eventually I start to care less and less than I already do.

Its really not complicated to understand why the West doesn't pay much attention to bombings in the middle eats. Theres always bombings in the middle east. Eventually you just become desensitized.

This is a good analogy. Add to this the drastic differences in culture and general lack of knowledge or interest in Middle Eastern politics or history and that's pretty much why many people don't care.

 

[Infinite]

"But where are the Muslims condemning these attacks?"


Hey now, there was a hashtag.

Wasn't that all over the news and Michelle Obama held up a hashtag?

A hashtag isn't news and that particular hashtag was created in response to the story not being covered by mainstream news outlets.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

A few reasons:

1. I care more about a fire in my kitchen, or my neighbor's kitchen, than a fire in the kitchen of someone three blocks away who I don't know.

2. I care about a fire when it happens unexpectedly, in a place fires usually do not happen. But if that neighbor a few blocks down keeps having fires, eventually I start to care less and less than I already do.

Its really not complicated to understand why the West doesn't pay much attention to bombings in the middle eats. Theres always bombings in the middle east. Eventually you just become desensitized.

Your reason 1 fails because we in the US don't generally give a rat's ass about what happens to people in Mexico. And they're more our neighbors than the UK.

 

[Shaanyboi]

I mean, the Muslim world widely regards the western world as a culture of sin and vice and this is a contributing factor behind every attack in the west on some level.

Every time there is an attack by ISIS in the middle east I know that in the back of everyone's mind is some relief that it did not happen here.

When attacks occur in the west, we know that the victims are people who have similar values as us. Namely, people that value cultural inclusivity...

When it occurs in the middle east, we know fuck all about the the people that are affected or its current cultural climate. For all we know it's affecting people who view women as trash, see homosexuality or christianity as a crime punishable by death, and find it permissible to beat your wife for reasons we find trivial. We just don't fucking know, and we can't fucking relate.

There's a whole fucking bunch of assumptions you're making.

 

[Vicetrailia]

I think it's a lack of sympathy more so than the 80/20 rule of event regularity. The media forces guarantee that.

 

[Kralamoonard]

I mean, the Muslim world widely regards the western world as a culture of sin and vice amd is a contributing factor behind every attack in the west on some level.

When it occurs in the middle east, we know fuck all about the the people that are affected or the cultural climate. For all we know it's affecting people who view women as trash, homosexuality or christianity as a crime punishable by death, and see it as permissible to beat your wife. We just don't fucking know, and we can't fucking relate

These two paragraphs are baseless assumptions and just reek of projections.

Firstly, many Muslims in the Middle East actually really like the West (if you bother to actually talk to many of them) and love European countries (can't speak for America) whether as tourists or for education and living there etc. In fact, a lot of this tourism in London has shaped how services cater to these groups by having hotels with Arabic speaking assistants etc. I've gone to the ME countless times and people I talk to (whether relatives, friends or people working in shops/stores) find it fascinating that I'm from the UK and dream to go there.

Secondly, you're projecting a hell of a lot of things onto people saying that they think in that certain way when a) People in the Middle East who are victims of these attacks aren't just made up of Muslims or even if Muslims, not extremist mentality - there are Christians too and b) speculation side, it's an asinine reason to even think this is a justification for ignoring attacks in the Middle East. It's probably the last reason people would think of in relating to middle easterners because it's quite frankly stupid.

 

[Skellig Gra]

This is ludicrous, most of these attacks occur in politically socially, economically unstable countries, terror attacks of that scale are far more prominent in these nations than they are in the west, to put it bluntly it's not news. You may as well ask why #Blacklivesmatter and the media in general turns a blind eye to black on black crime that has plagued African American communities for the better part of 5 decades, and is far more prominent than a kid being shot by a police officer, the latter is news the former is not.

That's a pretty depressing outlook you have on the world. It should ALWAYS be news. These events need to be counted so for those of us who do actually care can be aware of them and the effect on the people in those communities.

 

[Hazmat]

Your reason 1 fails because we in the US don't generally give a rat's ass about what happens to people in Mexico. And they're more our neighbors than the UK.

I disagree. I think most Americans would feel more at home in London or even Paris than Mexico City. Western European countries are more our "neighbors" in that poster's analogy than Mexico. It means "people that I think are like me" more than "people who live close."

 

[Onemic]

Couldnt the same be said the other way round as well? Where was the outcry of support and condemnation from Muslim groups and countries when the attacks on Brussels, Paris, and Charlie Hebdo happened?

 

[blu]

A few reasons:

1. I care more about a fire in my kitchen, or my neighbor's kitchen, than a fire in the kitchen of someone three blocks away who I don't know.

2. I care about a fire when it happens unexpectedly, in a place fires usually do not happen. But if that neighbor a few blocks down keeps having fires, eventually I start to care less and less than I already do.

Its really not complicated to understand why the West doesn't pay much attention to bombings in the middle eats. Theres always bombings in the middle east. Eventually you just become desensitized.

That's easy to solve - get to know your neighbor from three blocks away. You don't even have to pay them a visit - there are various channels of remote communication nowadays.

The reason I'm saying this is not to point a finger at you (and definitely not at a single gaffer, in particular), but to raise the issue of 'Is 3 blocks way a good enough reason for me to neglect that?'.

Turns out '3 blocks away' can be rather close to my doorstep. In the EU we're getting tons of refugees from those troubled zones. I'm sure Americans feel isolated enough at this stage. Dunno about the future, though.. I don't think a single point on the globe will be 'far enough' for an alert human being to discard that as 'too remote'.

 

[JB1981]

People expect those things to happen in the Middle East.

Pretty much.

 

[Coriolanus]

Couldnt the same be said the other way round as well? Where was the outcry of support and condemnation from Muslim groups and countries when the attacks on Brussels, Paris, and Charlie Hebdo happened?

Really?

Hebdo.
Brussels.
Paris.

all it takes is to type muslims condemn X attack on google and you'll get tons of hits on every single one.

 

[Captain Chaos]

Oh, I dont know, haven't western companies threatened to take their garment manufacturing out of Bangladesh since the cafe attacks. That's an outpouring of some sort.

 

[Shaanyboi]

Couldnt the same be said the other way round as well? Where was the outcry of support and condemnation from Muslim groups and countries when the attacks on Brussels, Paris, and Charlie Hebdo happened?

Again with this fucking shit...

 

[NoblesseOblige]

I disagree. I think most Americans would feel more at home in London or even Paris than Mexico City. Western European countries are more our "neighbors" in that poster's analogy than Mexico. It means "people that I think are like me" more than "people who live close."

Poster I responded to said they care more about their neighbor than a person three blocks away. Which ignores that maybe I feel more at home in a person I know three blocks away than my neighbor. So no, your interpretation does not follow their analogy. Plus they were using a physical proximity argument, which would have been silly to use as a metaphor for cultural similarities.

 

[dankir]

Selective outrage.

Bingo.

 

[Mr. Giggles]

Couldnt the same be said the other way round as well? Where was the outcry of support and condemnation from Muslim groups and countries when the attacks on Brussels, Paris, and Charlie Hebdo happened?

How cute.

Keep your head buried in the sand, then complain that you can't hear shit.

 

[Rembrandt]

All this victim blaming



The idea of getting upset at somebody feeling like the continuous death of their people is being ignored is insane.

 

[GuessMyUserName]

Couldnt the same be said the other way round as well? Where was the outcry of support and condemnation from Muslim groups and countries when the attacks on Brussels, Paris, and Charlie Hebdo happened?

 

[Disxo]

It has always been like that imo. When something happens in a western country it gets more coverage in western media than when something happens in africa, south america, asia, ... And pretty sure it's the other way around also. And that's no so very strange tbh.

Doesn't mean I personally don't care, because I do, a great deal.

We are not west now?

 

[Hazmat]

Poster I responded to said they care more about their neighbor than a person three blocks away. Which ignores that maybe I feel more at home in a person I know three blocks away than my neighbor. So no, your interpretation does not follow their analogy. Plus they were using a physical proximity argument, which would have been silly to use as a metaphor for cultural similarities.

The poster you quoted made a generalization in which people care more about someone close to them than someone that they've never even seen. This, of course, does not cover every single person and possibly does not cover you but in my opinion adequately describes the attitudes of the westerners that we're discussing here.

And using the word "neighbor" to mean more than "the guy that lives next door" is not silly. Taking that metaphor further is not silly. I'm sorry if you didn't understand his metaphor, but that doesn't mean it was inaccurate.

 

[FreezeSSC]

Probably for the same reason you don't hear much when 30 people die in Chicago over the weekend due to gang related activities, you just come to expect it.

 

[Kuroyume]

Alright, I read the thread so far and almost none of you have read the article. Especially those of you outraged by it.

Read it and come back.

Except I did, but okay.

 

[Sheroking]

Probably for the same reason you don't hear much when 30 people die in Chicago over the weekend due to gang related activities, you just come to expect it.

Probably this.

It's the Joker analogy. Nobody freaks out because it's expected, part of the plan. If it were as simple as "white people don't give a shit about non-whites", there wouldn't be a reaction to a Malaysian plane crash or a Japanese hurricane.

The unexpected horrors generates a much stronger reaction, and whether or not it's right, we expect terror attacks to happen in Iraq.

 

[AndyD]

People expect those things to happen in the Middle East.

This is pretty much most people's take. It happens there regularly so how is this news?

 

[Kenshin001]

The past couple of decades all we've heard is how terrorism against the West is a product of Western foreign policy, support for Israel, the presence of US troops in Muslim countries etc. Any sympathy for Western victims was quickly followed up by a subtle victim blaming. I've seen it even on this forum. Now the shoe is on the other foot I'm not sure why anyone expects any solidarity. You sympathise with your allies, your friends, not the people who blame you or despise you.

 

[Tuck]

Your reason 1 fails because we in the US don't generally give a rat's ass about what happens to people in Mexico. And they're more our neighbors than the UK.

You're thinking geographically. I'm talking culturally.

Granted, my analogy is geographic, so in that sense I could have chosen a better analogy. But thats what I meant, anyways.

 

[Condom]

The past couple of decades all we've heard is how terrorism against the West is a product of Western foreign policy, support for Israel, the presence of US troops in Muslim countries etc. Any sympathy for Western victims was quickly followed up by a subtle victim blaming. I've seen it even on this forum. Now the shoe is on the other foot I'm not sure why anyone expects any solidarity. You sympathise with your allies, your friends, not the people who blame you or despise you.

That's not victim blaming, that's blaming government policy. You know that just as well as I do.

 

[Shy Fingers]

It only took us a week to move on from a mass shooting killing 49 people in the US. Not hard to imagine we ignore things elsewhere in the world.

 

[Abilidebob]

It has always been like that imo. When something happens in a western country it gets more coverage in western media than when something happens in africa, south america, asia, ... And pretty sure it's the other way around also. And that's no so very strange tbh.

Doesn't mean I personally don't care, because I do, a great deal.

South America and Africa aren't in the West?

And pretty sure it's the other way around also

Nope.

 

[Messofanego]

Because it is further away from us. Same reason we don't really care that much about what happens to people in China, Indonesia or Russia. We don't feel connected to them like we do with France or the US for example.

It's really not that strange and happens with everything.

This distance argument doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Japan is pretty far away, yet Western countries give a lot of shits when something bad happens over there. Malaysia is far away, yet people gave a shit about a missing plane (MH370). There are plenty of other examples.

 

[Espada]

I disagree. I think most Americans would feel more at home in London or even Paris than Mexico City. Western European countries are more our "neighbors" in that poster's analogy than Mexico. It means "people that I think are like me" more than "people who live close."

Yup, it's not just geographical proximity it's cultural proximity as well. Mexico and Canada are the only countries with land borders with us, but we care a lot more about things in Canada than we do in Mexico. We're closer to Latin America than Europe, but the difference in the amounts (and quality of coverage) is huge.

Something like that is at play with the discrepancy between responses to terrorist attacks in the Middle East vs the West. There's also the issue of the unexpected vs the sadly all too common.

I'm not surprised by the lack of outpouring of support for Iraq, and I wouldn't fault someone in China for not supporting the victims of our regular mass shootings here in the States. That map of attacks in Iraq reminds me of a map of mass shootings here. It's really fucking easy to become inured to things like this.

And a point made really early in the thread is how much people can relate to a given group or event.