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NYT: The Far Right Has a New Digital Safe Space

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Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
People educating themselves through Facebook was bad, but the ability to dismiss any kind of different thought with the creation of single-minded social networks may crank up the sectarianization of politics up to 11. This could be really problematic down the line.

Article is from November 30th, but I thought it deserved its own thread.

When the white nationalist leader Richard B. Spencer was suspended from Twitter recently, he hopped over to YouTube to address his supporters. “Digitally speaking,” he said, Twitter had sent “execution squads across the alt-right.” He accused Twitter of “purging people on the basis of their views,” calling it “corporate Stalinism.” Then he mapped out a path forward. “There’s obviously Gab, which is an interesting medium,” he said. “I think that will be the place where we go next.”

Gab is a new social network built like a hybrid of Twitter and Reddit — posts are capped at 300 characters, and the crowd votes to boost or demote posts in the feed. But Gab’s defining feature is its user guidelines, or rather, its lack thereof. Gab bans illegal activities — child pornography, threats of violence, terrorism — and not much else. “Facebook, Twitter and Reddit are taking the path of censorship,” Utsav Sanduja, Gab’s chief communications officer, told me via email. “Gab does not.”

...

Gab’s 25-year-old founder, Andrew Torba, dreamed up the site after reading reports that Facebook employees suppress conservative articles on the site. Mr. Torba — who previously created Kuhcoon, a system for running automated Facebook ad campaigns (it’s now called Automate Ads) — is a rare conservative Christian tech C.E.O. Gab is a corrective to what he dubs “Big Social,” and it’s based on what the company calls “a pluralistic ethos of mutual respect and toleration of dissonant views.”

When other social sites push out disruptive users, Gab opens its arms. Recently, Twitter beefed up abuse rules to police not only threats but also hate speech “against a race, religion, gender, or orientation.” (The move presaged the purge that swept up Mr. Spencer.) And Reddit erased a community called Pizzagate, where conspiracy theorists had gathered to spin lies about Democratic pedophiles operating out of a D.C. pizzeria. On Gab, the topic is always trending.

All the big-name Twitter castaways have resurfaced here: In addition to Mr. Spencer, there is Milo Yiannopoulos, the Breitbart editor who was barred from Twitter for siccing trolls on the “Ghostbusters” actress Leslie Jones; Pax Dickinson, the former Business Insider chief technology officer who rebranded himself as a victim of P.C. culture when he was sacked for posting sexist tweets; and Tila Tequila, the reality TV star who was booted from Twitter after posting racial slurs and pro-Nazi stuff. Gab has also attracted the cutting conservative commentator Ann Coulter; the right-wing media guerrilla Mike Cernovich; and the disinformation king Alex Jones, founder of Infowars. Gab now hosts 98,000 accounts, with tens of thousands more hopeful members on a wait list.

...

While mainstream social networks are promising to crack down on “fake news,” Gab clears the runway for posts like “Satanic PizzaGate Is Going Viral Worldwide (Elites Are Terrified)” to pick up speed. Ricky Vaughn, a pseudonymous white nationalist (he takes his name from Charlie Sheen’s character in “Major League”) also barred from Twitter, posted to Gab that Twitter is effectively dead and should now be used only to pull off “skirmishes” against Twitter denizens. Gab would be a convenient base for recruiting more digital foot soldiers to that cause.


Voat was just the beginning. And of course their fugging mascot would be a frog.

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When the alt-right is on global, wide-reaching platforms: "Ban them! Ban them!"

When the alt-right creates its own mediums: "This is problematic!"

We need to decide if we'd rather continuously engage alt-right people on wide-reaching websites or let them populate their 'containment' websites. Can't get angry over both opposites especially when alt-right have been pushed away from mainstream social media, you know?
 

Des0lar

will learn eventually
Reading the article, seems to me the toxicity of the people will ruin the whole thing anyway. If you simply want a White Supremacy board, Stormfront already exists.

High on Mr. Trump’s win, Gab users are pretty upbeat. Part of the reason that Gab’s anti-anti-harassment rules work so well, so far, is that most people agree with one another. And one of those points of agreement is that anti-Semitism is tolerable, if not exactly preferred. On Twitter, anti-Semitic and racist trolls prowl around, pouncing on users while dodging the site’s moderators. But on Gab, anti-Jewish rhetoric is slung casually and liberally. One user, angry that his content had just been downvoted, wrote, “Thanks to the #Jew that just stopped by.” Andrew Auernheimer, a white supremacist troll known as weev, kicked off a minor censorship debate when Gab erased his bio, which advocated the rape, torture and murder of Jews. When one user advised weev to be more careful to avoid trouble with the law, another accused him of being Jewish.

Stuff like that is gonna start a discord between even the most hardcore right wingers. May even convince a Trumpette or two that they actually voted for the champion of these kind of people.
 
I'm for putting baby in the corner. The right in America has proven they're too ignorant to suss out any degree of reason or validity from the noise, so trying to have a fully-inclusive conversation is a waste of time. Marginalize the message to the fringes and just accept that anyone who dips into that cesspool is a lost cause.

Yes, it's depressing, but that's the state this sad-ass country is in.
 
“Facebook, Twitter and Reddit are taking the path of censorship,” Utsav Sanduja, Gab’s chief communications officer, told me via email. “Gab does not.”
Sure buddy, until the advertisers have gone away and you need money to run it.
 
This is preferable to having them on Twitter and other networks. If they want to be known as a place for white supremacists and fake news, let them.
 

maruchan

Member
YouTube needs to do something, any idiot can start a channel and start misinforming people. You should see the countless times I've been told to see some bullshit racist video on YouTube..
 

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
When the alt-right is on global, wide-reaching platforms: "Ban them! Ban them!"

When the alt-right creates its own mediums: "This is problematic!"

We need to decide if we'd rather continuously engage alt-right people on wide-reaching websites or let them populate their 'containment' websites. Can't get angry over both opposites especially when alt-right have been pushed away from mainstream social media, you know?

I hope you are not addressing my comment, because I can't recall ever saying something like "ban the alt-right from Facebook".

Not that I'd shed a tear for them.
 
When the alt-right is on global, wide-reaching platforms: "Ban them! Ban them!"

When the alt-right creates its own mediums: "This is problematic!"

We need to decide if we'd rather continuously engage alt-right people on wide-reaching websites or let them populate their 'containment' websites. Can't get angry over both opposites especially when alt-right have been pushed away from mainstream social media, you know?

The festering pool of smegma that is the neo nazi alt right needs to be stamped out. No space for them. Ever.
 

Slayven

Member
The thing with this places is they usually die out, because without targets they end up just shouting at each other.
 

Somnid

Member
The festering pool of smegma that is the neo nazi alt right needs to be stamped out. No space for them. Ever.

Yes, but we live in the real world where historically strong censorship campaigns almost never have the intended effect and tend to produce strong underground movements.
 
The nice thing about this is there's no particular reason for anyone to use Gab unless they desperately want to interact with these people, so having the app on your phone basically becomes a scarlet letter for everyone around you.

No more prodding. No more, "When you say you read this on Reddit, do you mean r/the_donald?" or "When you say you saw it on a news site, do you mean Breitbart?" Just, "Oh, you heard it on Gab. You're scum. Got it."
 

Yagharek

Member
If Gab bans accounts of people who make threats of violence and terrorism it will be forced to ban alt reich nutjobs. That's what they do.
 
When the alt-right is on global, wide-reaching platforms: "Ban them! Ban them!"

When the alt-right creates its own mediums: "This is problematic!"

We need to decide if we'd rather continuously engage alt-right people on wide-reaching websites or let them populate their 'containment' websites. Can't get angry over both opposites especially when alt-right have been pushed away from mainstream social media, you know?

Came here to say this, basically.

Personally I'd rather see them on mainstream sites where they can be easily seen but also easily countered.
 

sohois

Member
But the likes of Stormfront and /pol/ already exist. The main reason why Twitter and Reddit even move against far right accounts is because they are so toxic, forcing regular users off the site which will eventually hit revenue. If Gab is entirely far right trolls then no one else is ever going to register on the site and it will just be them all shouting at each other.

Since the main issue with this stuff being posted on reddit or twitter, from a social perspective, is the possibility for otherwise normal people to slowly become influenced or conditioned to the hate speech. If there are no normal people to begin with then you'll never see 'new recruits' to the ranks of the fascists.
 

iuxion

Member
I would rather have hate speech off mainstream social media in the hope that fewer "ordinary people" will come across it.
 

Bit-Bit

Member
I'm OK with it. Let them hang out in their echo chamber and the rest of society can easily identify the bigots by their use of GAB.
 
Came here to say this, basically.

Personally I'd rather see them on mainstream sites where they can be easily seen but also easily countered.

You're giving the people in the middle too much credit if you think they're going to read a logical deconstruction of alt-right arguments and say, "I understand, I was being manipulated by a neo-nazi asshole."

The entire problem we have is that "countering" them doesn't work because as long as they're able to present their platform in seemingly "legitimate" spaces the average member of the electorate is hilariously incapable of applying critical thinking to what they're being presented, completely removing the burden of evidence or even basic logical cohesion.
 

Red

Member
But the likes of Stormfront and /pol/ already exist. The main reason why Twitter and Reddit even move against far right accounts is because they are so toxic, forcing regular users off the site which will eventually hit revenue. If Gab is entirely far right trolls then no one else is ever going to register on the site and it will just be them all shouting at each other.

Since the main issue with this stuff being posted on reddit or twitter, from a social perspective, is the possibility for otherwise normal people to slowly become influenced or conditioned to the hate speech. If there are no normal people to begin with then you'll never see 'new recruits' to the ranks of the fascists.
I think it is naive to think that the only users would be far right trolls. There are many people who genuinely believe that social media like Twitter and Facebook are out to silence the political right. They feel persecuted. We are at the point where our polarization has entangled far-right trolls with run of the mill conservatism. They're part of the same bloc now.
 
Which is scary.

I'm more concerned about the echo chamber politics this brings and people who are going to be hurt in the process.
 
Nope. /pol/ idiots get mocked outside of the board regularly and get told to go back to their containment board.

I also remember most 4chan boards banning gamergaters back when the movement started.

It's weird to think that in many ways 4chan has become one of the less hateful places on the internet.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
I'm fine with this. Let them create some horrid cyber ghetto where they and other like minded pieces of filth can congregate and leave the rest of the world be. Its not like everyone on facebook or twitter is going to leave for the Alt Right Utopia.
 
I hope you are not addressing my comment, because I can't recall ever saying something like "ban the alt-right from Facebook".

Not that I'd shed a tear for them.

It was not aimed at any particular person but I just find it ironic that many people rejoice at things like the banning of that Younnopolis guy from Twitter (and I'm not saying it's unethical or anything, don't get me wrong) and would still be pissed at the founding of a site like this.

The festering pool of smegma that is the neo nazi alt right needs to be stamped out. No space for them. Ever.

Well, wouldn't shed a tear if they were gone myself, but the point here is that people act all exasperated and surprised that such sites are created even though they themselves helped push these people out of mainstream places. I'm not saying it should have been one way or the other but I think it should be acknowledged that online alt-right echo chambers like this forming is in part affected by the liberal stance on the presence of these people on more popular websites like Twitter or FB.
 

royalan

Member
You're giving the people in the middle too much credit if you think they're going to read a logical deconstruction of alt-right arguments and say, "I understand, I was being manipulated by a neo-nazi asshole."

The entire problem we have is that "countering" them doesn't work because as long as they're able to present their platform in seemingly "legitimate" spaces the average member of the electorate is hilariously incapable of applying critical thinking to what they're being presented, completely removing the burden of evidence or even basic logical cohesion.

Exactly. You can counter white supremacists until the cows come home. They don't care about facts and rational arguments. They're guided by hate and fear of other races. There's no logic in that.

Let them have their Gula Gula Island of hate. And then when that starts getting terrorist-y, nuke that too.
 

Oppo

Member
Exactly. You can counter white supremacists until the cows come home. They don't care about facts and rational arguments. They're guided by hate and fear of other races. There's no logic in that.

Let them have their Gula Gula Island of hate. And then when that starts getting terrorist-y, nuke that too.

i think this is a super bad long term trend though. reinforced bubble walls.

i absolutely understand the "fuck em" sentiment. but it's half the country. on some level. at the risk of sounding like a condescending Canadian, you guys need to talk to each other. balkanizing the social space will lead to even weirder manifestations of things like PizzaGate.

i can only hope the infighting and lack of sponsors or money (although who knows - fake news is lucrative after all) will slow the progress of things like this.

i mean consider the recent Guardian thing on Google auto complete searches.
 
I don't care about their echo chambers away from the masses unless they have an actual goal to rally behind.

Without someone to directly oppress, I don't see it lasting long anyway, unlike sites like stormfront.
 

kmfdmpig

Member
i think this is a super bad long term trend though. reinforced bubble walls.

i absolutely understand the "fuck em" sentiment. but it's half the country. on some level. at the risk of sounding like a condescending Canadian, you guys need to talk to each other. balkanizing the social space will lead to even weirder manifestations of things like PizzaGate.

i can only hope the infighting and lack of sponsors or money (although who knows - fake news is lucrative after all) will slow the progress of things like this.

The people talked about in this article are much less than half the country.
The far right, alt-right, neo-nazis are the fringes of the republican party. Hillary's deplorable comment (which likely cost her the election according to her strategist) pegged the number at "half" of Trump supporters, which would be 23% of voters. I suspect it's lower than that, although personally I can't understand finding legitimate reasons to vote for Trump.

Pretty cool how divided we are. We never even have to speak to each other anymore.

Yup. That's part of the problem. People watch news which provides a 24x7 circle jerk for what they already believe while shitting on the other side for being so dumb. It's quite unhealthy for political discourse.
 
You're giving the people in the middle too much credit if you think they're going to read a logical deconstruction of alt-right arguments and say, "I understand, I was being manipulated by a neo-nazi asshole."

The entire problem we have is that "countering" them doesn't work because as long as they're able to present their platform in seemingly "legitimate" spaces the average member of the electorate is hilariously incapable of applying critical thinking to what they're being presented, completely removing the burden of evidence or even basic logical cohesion.

You gotta be successful at that unless you want a "dictatorship of wise men" to tell everyone what to think. Obviously, such wise men inevitably prove to be anything but.
 
From a money making standpoint, this is genius. And the word of mouth potential is huge.

But morally, I couldn't get down with it. It'll be a cesspool of hate.
 

Kuga

Member
The internet has brought a lot of nice things. Ease of niche socialization and formation of echo-chambers (right and left) are not.
 
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