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NYTimes: Swift boaters owned by Kerry (finally)

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http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/28/w...79bdf3f1d35&hp&ex=1148788800&partner=homepage

28kerry.xlarge1.jpg


Three decades after the Vietnam War and nearly two years after Mr. Kerry's failed presidential bid, most Americans have probably forgotten why it ever mattered whether he went to Cambodia or that the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth accused him of making it all up, saying he was dishonest and lacked patriotism.

But among those who were on the front lines of the 2004 campaign, the battle over Mr. Kerry's wartime service continues, out of the limelight but in some ways more heatedly — because unlike then, Mr. Kerry has fully engaged in the fight. Only those on Mr. Kerry's side, however, have gathered new evidence to support their case.

The Swift boat group continues to spend money on Washington consultants, according to public records, and last fall it gave $100,000 to a group that promptly sued Mr. Kerry, a Democratic senator from Massachusetts, for allegedly interfering with the release of a film that was critical of him.

"They lied and lied and lied about everything," Mr. Kerry says in an interview in his Senate office. "How many lies do you get to tell before someone calls you a liar? How many times can you be exposed in America today?"

His supporters are compiling a dossier that they say will expose every one of the Swift boat group's charges as a lie and put to rest any question about Mr. Kerry's valor in combat. While it would be easy to see this as part of Mr. Kerry's exploration of another presidential run, his friends say the Swift boat charges struck at an experience so central to his identity that he would want to correct the record even if he were retiring from public life.

Mr. Kerry portrays himself as a wary participant in his own defense, insisting in the two-hour interview that he does not want to dwell on the accusations or the mistakes of his 2004 campaign. "I'm moving on," he says several times.

The veterans group, led by Mr. O'Neill, a former Swift boat commander who was recruited by the Nixon administration to debate Mr. Kerry on "The Dick Cavett Show" in 1971, began its campaign in early 2004 by criticizing Mr. Kerry's protests against the Vietnam War. But backed by Republican donors and consultants, they soon shifted to attack his greatest strength — his record as a military hero in a campaign against a president who never went to war.

Naval records and accounts from other sailors contradicted almost every claim they made, and some members of the group who had earlier praised Mr. Kerry's heroism contradicted themselves.

Still, the charges stuck. At a triumphant gathering of veterans in Fort Worth after the election, Mr. O'Neill was introduced as the man who "torpedoed" Mr. Kerry's campaign; the Swift boat group spent more than $130,000 for a "Mission Accomplished" celebration at Disney World. The president's brother, Gov. Jeb Bush of Florida, sent a letter thanking the "Swifties" for "their willingness to stand up to John Kerry." Even people within the Kerry campaign believed that the attacks had cost their candidate the presidency.


Mr. Kerry's defenders have received help from unlikely sources, including some who were originally aligned with the Swift boat group but later objected to its accusations against Mr. Kerry. One of them, Steve Hayes, was an early member of the group. A former sailor, he was a longtime friend and employee of William Franke, one of the group's founders, and he supported the push to have Mr. Kerry release his military files. But Mr. Hayes came to believe that the group was twisting Mr. Kerry's record.

"The mantra was just 'We want to set the record straight,' " Mr. Hayes said this month. "It became clear to me that it was morphing from an organization to set the record straight into a highly political vendetta. They knew it was not the truth."

Mr. Hayes broke with the group, ending a 35-year friendship with Mr. Franke, and voted for Mr. Kerry. He has provided a long interview to Mr. Kerry's supporters, backing their version of the incident for which Mr. Kerry received the Bronze Star.

Of course, plenty of disappointed and angry Democrats would like to know why Mr. Kerry did not defend himself so strenuously before the election. He had posted some military documents on his campaign's Web site and had allowed reporters to view his medical records but resisted open access to them as unnecessarily intrusive.

Mr. Kerry and his defenders say that they did not have the extensive archival material, and that it was too complicated to gather in the rapid pace of a campaign. He was caught off guard, he says; he had been prepared to defend his antiwar activism, but he did not believe that anyone would challenge the facts behind his military awards. "We should have put more money behind it," Mr. Kerry says now. "I take responsibility for it; it was my mistake. They spent something like $30 million, and we didn't. That's just a terrible imbalance when somebody's lying about you."


kerry.graphic.jpg


A lot more at the link. Anywhoo, it's nice to see these people bitchslapped. Perhaps two years too late, but nevertheless.
 

WalkMan

Banned
:lol I did a report on John Kerry a couple months back. Of course it had to be biased as my instructor hated him. But yea, I learned that he got some rice driven into his ass somehow and was taken off the field for the injury.
 

sefskillz

shitting in the alley outside your window
WalkMan said:
:lol I did a report on John Kerry a couple months back. Of course it had to be biased as my instructor hated him. But yea, I learned that he got some rice driven into his ass somehow and was taken off the field for the injury.
This is addressed in the article.

Mario: Rocking for Bush. ToxicAdam, you are the coolest, you know that right?
 
I knew that the Swift guys were making shit up while backed by Repubie dollars, but the Democrats are too stupid to know how to deal with it IN TIME. The only way this could help now is to further deteriorate the Republican party, and I don't think the Democrats know how to use the info efffectively.
 

Phoenix

Member
Battersea Power Station said:
I knew that the Swift guys were making shit up while backed by Repubie dollars, but the Democrats are too stupid to know how to deal with it IN TIME. The only way this could help now is to further deteriorate the Republican party, and I don't think the Democrats know how to use the info efffectively.



Yeah, there is no political value in even bringing this up by the democrats now.
 
The Swift Boaters could have just claimed Kerry is a stiff, robot-like candidate a la Al Gore, with a weakness for rich women.

That would have been truthful at the very least.
 
Battersea Power Station said:
I knew that the Swift guys were making shit up while backed by Repubie dollars, but the Democrats are too stupid to know how to deal with it IN TIME. The only way this could help now is to further deteriorate the Republican party, and I don't think the Democrats know how to use the info efffectively.

Seriously though, I respect the way that Kerry handled it. To address it straight on would almost seem like he actually had to try to defend himself. A man that served in the armed forces as he did should never be in a situation where he has to defand his service to the country; it's really dispicable that anyone would attack him from that angle, considering that both Bush and Cheney are two giant walking vaginas who pussied out of service not because they objected to the war, but because they had connections.

It's funny how the public perceives Bush to be an "every man" when in reality, that's so far removed from the truth.
 

Lo-Volt

Member
That makes me feel so much better, now that the truth is out while it can make a difference in public discourse. I'm almost glad the man isn't president, his timing is atrocious (but I guess it beats corruption, obfuscation and war with no exit strategery as promised every day of the week, but alas it comes too late).
 

APF

Member
Phoenix said:
Yeah, there is no political value in even bringing this up by the democrats now.
I'd say there's negative political value in bringing this up right now; why bother, when it only allows the Swift Boat squad a second chance to publicize their claims? This is just like the 9/11 conspiracy stuff: the longer you wait, the worse it gets, regardless of your proof. Kerry should have come out immediately after the convention when the SBVT guys first started running their ads. He also shouldn't have made the convention--and his campaign up to that point--about Vietnam, but whatever.
 

APF

Member
BREAKING: Dan Quayle announces he has "the perfect comeback" to Lloyd Bentsen's "you're no Jack Kennedy" remark from 1988 debate

Developing...
 
football.jpg


In all seriousness though, they should have:

a) Attacked them throughout the campaign

+

b) Had all things Kerry expelled from Vietnam's communist "hall of fame"
 

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
Darko said:
who cares.. you lost dude, get over it.
I'm not sure why you believe he's not over it.

Sure, it's too late to do any good regarding the election, but I fail to see a problem with Kerry going back and defending himself. I've got no problem with lies being disputed no matter what time it is.
 
Dan said:
I'm not sure why you believe he's not over it.

Sure, it's too late to do any good regarding the election, but I fail to see a problem with Kerry going back and defending himself. I've got no problem with lies being disputed no matter what time it is.

Agreed. I think any returning war veteran would want to set the record straight after his/her record had been mercilessly skewered by a bunch of liars. Who really cares what the political value is? It's about personal integrity.
 

skrew

Banned
the likes of toxicadams care very little about integrity, honesty and character

the ends justify the means, right guys?
too bad the whole country got shafted in the process

PARTY BEFORE COUNTRY
 

TJ Bennett

TJ Hooker
This makes John Kerry look even more like an idiot. The evidence was there to back his claims yet the pathetic Democrats couldn't muster up this stuff when it really mattered. Good job!
 

Mumbles

Member
Ninja Scooter said:
where was all this shit 2 years ago, Kerry, you idiot?

Actually, the swift boat claims had already been disproven long before the election took place - it's not that hard when every record from the time contradicts them. It's hard to say that Kerry really should have spent huge sums of money saying this in election ads, though, since it would be seen as tit-for-tat, and people would have prrobably come up with some other BS to slam him with (for example, Zell Miller screeching about how Kerry voted to cut military spending - and somehow failing to remember that he often did so at the explicit demands of then-Secretary of Defense Dick Cheney)
 

winter

Member
APF said:
BREAKING: Dan Quayle announces he has "the perfect comeback" to Lloyd Bentsen's "you're no Jack Kennedy" remark from 1988 debate

Developing...

You just couldn't resist, could you?

I don't understand why some of you must believe this is political. These people attacked his honor. Only in America can a decorated war hero be twisted into a war criminal. And a deserter become a president.
 

APF

Member
winter said:
You just couldn't resist, could you?
Huh? I couldn't resist what now? I knew someone wouldn't be able to resist riding my jock, regardless of what I posted here. You're in love with me, I know. I GET IT--move on.

winter said:
I don't understand why some of you must believe this is political.
Well since you went there, this is obviously a political maneuver to diffuse the claims of the SBVFT at a time when it's the most politically-harmless; better address this now than closer to the 08 campaign, but what the Kerry camp just doesn't get is that it reminds his erstwhile supporters how horrible his campaign management was.


winter said:
These people attacked his honor. Only in America can a decorated war hero be twisted into a war criminal.
Tell that to Colin Powell.
 

winter

Member
APF said:
Huh? I couldn't resist what now? I knew someone wouldn't be able to resist riding my jock, regardless of what I posted here. You're in love with me, I know. I GET IT--move on.

You made one legitimate post and then you obviously posted again when you realized you forgot to deliver your stupid unneccessary quip.
 

APF

Member
winter said:
You made one legitimate post and then you obviously posted again when you realized you forgot to deliver your stupid unneccessary quip.
And you put your stupid unnecessary quip in the same post as your "legitimate" comment. And the cycle continues.


I'm spoken for.


[edit after thinking for a moment:]

Seriously though, I'm likely one "unnecessary quip"--the bread and butter of discussion forums, and especially NeoGAF--away from whomever is down-modding my posts having enough of an excuse to ban me and thereby silence my dissent forever, so don't worry. Soon there will be no one around to make timely references to classic dressing-downs of Republican VP candidates, and make relevant, coherent, and dare-I-say fair points from a different perspective than most of the folks who post here.
 

Silent Death

lemme get one or two licks
TJ Bennett said:
This makes John Kerry look even more like an idiot. The evidence was there to back his claims yet the pathetic Democrats couldn't muster up this stuff when it really mattered. Good job!


True enough Kerry didn't counterattack as hard as he should have but he was running a campaign. He didn't want to have to turn his full attention to addressing these spurious attacks at the expense of losing focus on his campaign. Where the fuck was the media on this entire SB Vet thing? They could have and had a responsibility to you know research the claims of the SB Vets and report the truth. Instead the media just allowed the SBs to say whatever and left it up to Kerry to answer.
 

skrew

Banned
APF said:
Seriously though, I'm likely one "unnecessary quip"--the bread and butter of discussion forums, and especially NeoGAF--away from whomever is down-modding my posts having enough of an excuse to ban me and thereby silence my dissent forever, so don't worry. Soon there will be no one around to make timely references to classic dressing-downs of Republican VP candidates, and make relevant, coherent, and dare-I-say fair points from a different perspective than most of the folks who post here.
well aren't you a self-important little prick

unnecessary quip above
 

APF

Member
Silent Death said:
True enough Kerry didn't counterattack as hard as he should have but he was running a campaign. He didn't want to have to turn his full attention to addressing these spurious attacks at the expense of losing focus on his campaign. Where the fuck was the media on this entire SB Vet thing? They could have and had a responsibility to you know research the claims of the SB Vets and report the truth. Instead the media just allowed the SBs to say whatever and left it up to Kerry to answer.
It's funny, because that's exactly what the Right-wing blogosphere was saying when the Swifties started coming out with their stuff (I think they published a book first, then started running ads after the Democratic convention): where is the media, why aren't they reporting this (omg bias)? They got especially riled-up when the first major media report on them (IIRC) was the Times' expose that *gasp* some of them were Republicans (or had ties to Republican organizations). Well no shit; the leader of the Swifties was Nixon's talkshow point man against Kerry way back when he (K) was emerging as an anti-war figure.

The point is, it's not the media's job to run spin control for your campaign. If these allegations are truly dangerous to the story you wish to base your run on, an effective campaign organization shouldn't be twiddling their thumbs waiting for the NYT to find something negative to report about. An effective campaign stops it dead in its tracks immediately before any real damage can be done, especially when it was long known that some of these arguments/attacks (at least about Kerry's comments against the war being used against the troops in captivity, etc) were bound to come out eventually.

skrew said:
well aren't you a self-important little prick
*shrug* show me where I'm wrong; I'm open to different perspectives if you actually bring something to the table.
 

DCharlie

And even i am moderately surprised
i always thought it was funny that the Reps were loving attacking Kerrys war record (discrediting some one who served) but didn't see anythign wrong with Flyboy and his amazing devotion to the American cause (IF he even turned up for that!)
 

Triumph

Banned
This is just proof that John Kerry sucks. TWO YEARS for a rebuttal. Yeah.

And further proof that Democrats are too stupid to be allowed to pick their own candidates. "Best chance of beating Bush" my ass. I suppose Hilary is gonna have the "Best Chance to Win" in 2008, huh?

There is no hope in the Democratic Party. They are born losers at this point. They lost in 2004, they'll lose in the midterms this year, and they're sure as hell gonna lose in 2008. They suck so bad they'll probably find a way to lose in 2007 when nothing is on the line.

In conclusion, vote Nader in 2008 and vote Triumph in 2012. Good night, and good luck.
 
Say what you want about Kerry's 04 campaign, but if it weren't for him and his fundraising prowess for the 06 elections, the Democrats would be in deep shit. He's personally given millions and millions to local and state candidates.
 
Incognito said:
Say what you want about Kerry's 04 campaign, but if it weren't for him and his fundraising prowess for the 06 elections, the Democrats would be in deep shit. He's personally given millions and millions to local and state candidates.
Money is nice, but couldn't he practice being more charismatic and fast? Like say, merge him with Rachel Ray?
 

terrene

Banned
It looks really bad, doing this now. It took two years to drudge up a report corroborating boat coordinates and two photographs? Tens of millions of dollars went into his campaign - he couldn't muster up this shit then? Now the idea is so implanted into people's minds that contrary evidence is going to be treated with great skepticism, not to mention the fact that the GODDAMN ELECTION IS ALREADY OVER.
 
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