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In a world where our annual pumpkin festivals are possible terrorist targets. We need to stand ready.
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Obama orders review of U.S. police use of military hardware
- Thread starter GK86
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Carnby
Member
This. My cynicism has taught me that no matter how many hashtags we make, no matter how many stories we "like" on Facebook, nothing is going to change the world.
Saucycarpdog
Member
Not much will become of this I bet. It's a good policy but that is exactly why it will go nowhere. Because it actually will do shit.
PlayALLtheGames
Banned
Glad to hear this has caught the WH's eye. I had no idea small towns had that kind of equipment. It's completely absurd.
well it's just in reaction to the terrists winning, we must escalate to meet the potential known unknowns.
homegrowndub
Banned
Of course not. I have never expected anyone behind a screen to change the world. I'm pretty sure the government doesn't either.
speculawyer
Member
It is going to interesting to see how the hard right does a 180 on this one. The NRA calls the Feds Jack-booted thugs. A the hard right backed-up Cliven Bundy when he said the Feds are too heavy handed. And reducing this military hardware could save money.
But . . . Obama and the people in Ferguson are black . . . so . . . .
But . . . Obama and the people in Ferguson are black . . . so . . . .
Ninja Scooter
Member
Angelus Errare
Banned
Let's see. For the college students? My school rioted after we beat Duke. It was fun but everyone knew it was stupid. People knocking over polls, blocking the street and pushing over cars. Dumb.
Again, I see how none of this has to do with Ferguson. These armored vehicles didn't make that cop shoot that boy.
Ninja Scooter
Member
I think the issues with militarization of the police is what it does to the mindset of the police and the population of the people they are supposed to "serve and protect". Cops should not be acting like they are going to war when they clock in every day.
what? no. i'm talking about pandering, positioning, and propaganda. usual politics.
edit: would love to be wrong though.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
I thought this stuff was surplus equipment handed down, not bought specifically for law enforcement.
gutter_trash
Banned
equipment acquired in the pretext to fight foreign terrorists but end up being used to suppress powerless minorities instead.
I love John Oliver too
BattleMonkey
Member
The military has hundreds of battle tanks doing just that, sitting around collecting dust and the top brass has said " we don't need more tanks in this day and age ", yet politicians keep pushing money to buy these things as they got to keep the companies making money and don't want to be the ones who make Americans lose their jobs.
elrechazado
Banned
The right is all over the ferguson cops, sorry to burst the bubble
ItAintEasyBeinCheesy
it's 4th of July in my asshole
Hrmmmmm fast twitch muscle fibres vs tanks, probably gonna need some more tanks.
Meh... I know what the results will be. More training needed.
Law enforcement has had armored vehicles since the Capone Era when weapons changed from pistols and shotguns to Submachine guns and machine guns. Then the ammo changed from full metal jacket to hollow points and armor piercing rounds. Police armored vehicles have also changed over time and in Ferguson all I saw were the modern Police Swat vehicles and gear. So, I don't have an issue with body armor, AR-15s, and Police armored vehicles. Police have to be ready and prepared for modern threats.
Many police officers have been killed because they are outgunned and don't have the gear to respond adequately to modern threats. Some departments don't give their officers any type of vests. Other departments used to rely on makeshift armored vehicles because they could not afford the modern Swat vehicle. And many officers have been killed because their pistols are no match to submachine guns and assault rifles on the streets of the US.
However, I do have a great issue with law enforcement pulling out this modern combat gear on unarmed people. I have an issue with lack of training these officers from MO had that they were pointing AR-15s and sniper rifles at unarmed civilians. I have an issue with the way all this gear was used in response to a water bottle. All this gear designed to protect against bullets and explosions, being used to respond to a thrown bottle.
So the issue is training and lack of guidelines of when this gear is used rather than the gear itself. Police need to be ready. And what we saw in Ferguson was the gear of multiple police departments across the county and area deployed in one area. So, no, Ferguson doesn't have 10 armored vehicles and 100 swat officers. At the most they had 1, at the most there should have only been one deployed with riot cops taking the lead. Shows the lack of training from multiple levels of the police forces.
Edit: Just to add, there is indeed some gear cops should not have. For example LMGs that some department have on their boats. An AR-15 on the hands of multiple officers should be enough, no need for an LMG.
Law enforcement has had armored vehicles since the Capone Era when weapons changed from pistols and shotguns to Submachine guns and machine guns. Then the ammo changed from full metal jacket to hollow points and armor piercing rounds. Police armored vehicles have also changed over time and in Ferguson all I saw were the modern Police Swat vehicles and gear. So, I don't have an issue with body armor, AR-15s, and Police armored vehicles. Police have to be ready and prepared for modern threats.
Many police officers have been killed because they are outgunned and don't have the gear to respond adequately to modern threats. Some departments don't give their officers any type of vests. Other departments used to rely on makeshift armored vehicles because they could not afford the modern Swat vehicle. And many officers have been killed because their pistols are no match to submachine guns and assault rifles on the streets of the US.
However, I do have a great issue with law enforcement pulling out this modern combat gear on unarmed people. I have an issue with lack of training these officers from MO had that they were pointing AR-15s and sniper rifles at unarmed civilians. I have an issue with the way all this gear was used in response to a water bottle. All this gear designed to protect against bullets and explosions, being used to respond to a thrown bottle.
So the issue is training and lack of guidelines of when this gear is used rather than the gear itself. Police need to be ready. And what we saw in Ferguson was the gear of multiple police departments across the county and area deployed in one area. So, no, Ferguson doesn't have 10 armored vehicles and 100 swat officers. At the most they had 1, at the most there should have only been one deployed with riot cops taking the lead. Shows the lack of training from multiple levels of the police forces.
Edit: Just to add, there is indeed some gear cops should not have. For example LMGs that some department have on their boats. An AR-15 on the hands of multiple officers should be enough, no need for an LMG.
It doesn't, directly, but it's all part of thei shifting view. The military fights enemies. Police protect their fellow citizens. When police become military the citizens become their enemies.
So uh
Fucking humvees were "sold somehow".
http://fusion.net/leadership/story/...nts-lose-loads-military-issued-weapons-984250
Fucking humvees were "sold somehow".
http://fusion.net/leadership/story/...nts-lose-loads-military-issued-weapons-984250
titiklabingapat
Member
I still do not understand how terrorism has something to do with the suburbs, and justifying some of the equipment, especially on unarmed civilians. It makes sense in the bigger cities. But no one is gonna attack you in Suburbs, Flyover State, USA.
I think it's to ensure they only request what they need. And they prove need by using it later.
Escape Goat
Member
When people bitch about government inefficiency and how government is the problem this is what they're talking about. Theres no accountability in government jobs. They don't know where their shit is and nobody really cares. Better to keep quiet and let Congress cut your dept/agency a check in the next quarter.
pants
Member
Do US police get Tonfa training?
When I first read that I thought the government was selling humvees in 12 packs
GungHo
Single-handedly caused Exxon-Mobil to sue FOX, start World War 3
Because if you aren't using it, they want to give it to someone else who would use it. The various LEAs get MRAPS, firearms, NVGs and other materiel at a significant discount because otherwise they would just be sitting in a depot eating depreciation, and demand is quite high on them because LEAs are essentially governmental doomsday preppers.
"In case."
Precisely. They need to be taking the money they spend on this shit and repurposing it for community outreach programs to teach their officers empathy.
It's stuff that was intended to be used to prosecute land wars in Asia.
kame-sennin
Member
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