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Obama's Fiscal Responsibility Commission: Cut Taxes for the Wealthy

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GhaleonEB

Member
The Chairmen of Obama's fiscal commission just released their "Chairman's Mark". This is the proposal they are taking to the other members of the committee for debate before voting. It requires 14 of the 18 to agree to the plan, and then they'll send it to Congress.

There are some good ideas in the report. But those are offset by this gem: they propose a massive (additional) tax cut for the wealthy.

The report can be viewed here.

NY Times Article:

The plan would reduce Social Security benefits to most future retirees — low-income people would get a higher benefit — and it would subject higher levels of income to payroll taxes to ensure Social Security’s solvency for at least the next 75 years.

But the plan would not count any savings from Social Security toward meeting the overall deficit-reduction goal set by Mr. Obama, reflecting the chairmen’s sensitivity to liberal critics who have complained that Social Security should be fixed only for its own sake, not to balance the nation’s books.

The proposed simplification of the tax code would repeal or modify a number of popular tax breaks — including the deductibility of mortgage interest payments — so that income tax rates could be reduced across the board. Under the plan, individual income tax rates would decline to as low as 8 percent on the lowest income bracket (now 10 percent) and to 23 percent on the highest bracket (now 35 percent). The corporate tax rate, now 35 percent, would also be reduced, to as low as 26 percent.

Talking Points Memo

Social Security cuts

  • Index the retirement age to longevity -- i.e., increase the retirement age to qualify for Social Security -- to age 69 by 2075.
  • Index Social Security yearly increases to inflation rather than wages, which will generally mean lower cost of living increases and less money per average recipient.
  • "Increase progressivity of benefit formula" -- i.e., means test part of Social Security benefits by 2050.
  • Increase the Social Security contribution ceiling: while people only pay Social Security taxes on the first $106,800 of their wages today, that's only about 86% of the total potentially taxable wages. The co-chairs suggest raising the ceiling to capture 90% of wages.


Tax reform

  • The co-chairs suggest capping both government expenditures and revenue at 21% of GDP eventually.
  • In their first plan, called "The Zero Plan," they suggest reducing the tax brackets to three personal brackets and one corporate rate while eliminated all credits and deductions. Without any credits or deductions (including the ETIC and mortgage interest deductions), the 3 tax rates would be 8, 14 and 23 percent.
  • In their second plan, they would increase the personal deduction to $15,000, create 3 tax brackets (15, 25 and 35%); repeal or significantly curtail a number of popular tax deductions (including the state and local deduction and the mortgage interest deduction); and eliminate other tax expenditures.
  • The third plan would force Congress to undertake comprehensive tax reform by 2012 by raising taxes for each year Congress fails to act.
  • All their proposals limit Congress to collecting taxes on income made within the United States, reducing or eliminating taxes on American expats and revenues companies earn abroad.
  • They also suggest raising the federal gas tax to 15 cents per gallon in 2013.

Discretionary spending cuts

  • Freeze federal worker wage increases through 2014; eliminate 200,000 federal jobs by 2020; and eliminate 250,000 federal non-defense contractor jobs by 2015.
  • Establish co-pays in the VA medical system and change the co-pays and deductibles for military retirees that remain in that system.
  • Eliminate NASA funding for commercial space flight.
  • Require the Smithsonian museums to start charging entrance fees and raise fees at the national parks.
  • Eliminate funding to the Corporation for Public Broadcasting -- which many conservatives suggested in the wake of the firing of former NPR contributor Juan Williams.
  • Reduce farm subsidies by $3 billion per year.
 
Don't forget the whole "phase social security out over the long term" thing. Yay for bipartisanship Obama

eznark: horay for your 2% tax cut!
 

Evlar

Banned
Now I'm all in favor of closing tax loopholes and giveaways, and I'm glad someone is talking about that subject seriously, but it simply boggles the mind that the commission would suggest removing ALL tax expenditures in order to aim for lower tax brackets across the board. It's just breathtaking.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
And the cut to NASA is for $1.2 Billion. Why even offer this weak ass savings?
 
It's just a draft, but I only see 100 billion in cuts to defense spending. I will gladly trade NASA in exchange for cutting defense spending by a minimum of 50%. If people aren't willing to make major cuts to defense spending then they aren't really serious about wanting a balanced budget.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Social Security can be "saved" by just removing the cap on the payroll tax. It's only applied to the first ~$100k. Remove it, and the problem is pretty much done.

Not included, among other things: directly negotiated prices for prescription drugs under Medicare Part D. Savings: a couple hundred billion over the next decade.
 

Spire

Subconscious Brolonging
Eliminate funding to the Corporation for Public Broadcasting -- which many conservatives suggested in the wake of the firing of former NPR contributor Juan Williams.

What the fuck?
 
It's worth noting that one of the options explored does retain the 35% highest marginal rate and triples the standard deduction. Option 2 FTW. Sure there are things I don't like in the report (cutting subsidized student loan interest, changing to chained CPI) but its not all a giveaway to the wealthy either.

I have no faith that option 2 will even be close to what will result from the coming clusterfuck that will be the debate surrounding this report.
 

Chichikov

Member
That commission was a stupid PR move by Obama, and now he's stuck with that steaming pile of shit.
Excellence in leadership!
I'm really losing patience with this administration.
 
FYI none of these things will end up being considered by Congress because they're nearly all politically toxic in one way or another.
 

eznark

Banned
This says nothing about cutting NASA, just funding for their forays into commercial space. Zero justification for NASA in the commercial market.


That commission was a stupid PR move by Obama
best part right there!
 

Binabik15

Member
Quick, invest in umbrella manufacturer´s shares, people will have to buy the fuck out of umbrellas to shield themselves from all that trickling down!
 
It looks like Option 1, the one in the original post that drops the highest bracket to 23%, also counts all capital gains and dividends as ordinary income. Which is a huge change and explains the significant drop... would love to see someone run the numbers on how it actually affects taxable income.
 

shintoki

sparkle this bitch
Cutting NPR? Hurting Public Educational/Historical sites?

With the humorous, 20k federal jobs, and 25k non-defense...

Holy shit is America screwed. Time to pack up and head north... south soon to our wonderful neighbors or somewhere else.
 

JoeBoy101

Member
From the Plan:

Our plan makes five basic recommendations:
1. Enact tough discretionary spending caps and provide $200 billion in illustrative domestic and defense savings in 2015.
2. Pass tax reform that dramatically reduces rates, simplifies the code, broadens the base, and reduces the deficit.
3. Address the “Doc Fix” not through deficit spending but through savings from payment reforms, cost-sharing, and malpractice reform, and long-term measures to control health care cost growth.
4. Achieve mandatory savings from farm subsidies, military and civil service retirement.
5. Ensure Social Security solvency for the next 75 years while reducing poverty among seniors.
 
And here is what will happen . . . they'll implement the tax cuts and get cold feet on the spending cuts such that situation actually gets worse.

We are doomed.
 

Menelaus

Banned
The third plan would force Congress to undertake comprehensive tax reform by 2012 by raising taxes for each year Congress fails to act.
Yes, punish us for the sins of our congress critters.
 
In their first plan, called "The Zero Plan," they suggest reducing the tax brackets to three personal brackets and one corporate rate...
So small time, Main Street mom and pops will pay the same rate as Google, Goldman, and Caterpillar?

...while eliminated all credits and deductions. Without any credits or deductions (including the ETIC and mortgage interest deductions)...
Yeah, good luck with that.

Seems that it may be a tax-cut-in-name-only.
 

eznark

Banned
speculawyer said:
And here is what will happen . . . they'll implement the tax cuts and get cold feet on the spending cuts such that situation actually gets worse.

We are doomed.

.
 

confused

Banned
Yes, let's cut all forms of income while the deficit is at an all-time high. Genius, fucking genius. Living in Holland I make a decent wage (pretty average), yet I pay 38.5% income tax. You guys don't know how good you have it.
 
26rqowo
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
Mr. Lemming said:
It looks like Option 1, the one in the original post that drops the highest bracket to 23%, also counts all capital gains and dividends as ordinary income. Which is a huge change and explains the significant drop... would love to see someone run the numbers on how it actually affects taxable income.

I actually think option 1 and option zero are a tax hikes

It looks like a huge tax cut, but take away all deductions and treat Cap Gains as ordinary income and the top 1% will pay more.

This is a stealth tax hike disguised as a tax cut.

Bravo commission, Bravo.
 

TomServo

Junior Member
Remove home mortgate interest deduction and and the keys to my house go in the mailbox as I walk away from it.
 

Zamorro

Member
If some tax breaks are repealed, like the deductibility of mortgage interest payments, wouldn't that increase the tax burden for rich people on the whole?

I can't see how this would otherwise reduce the deficit.
 

shintoki

sparkle this bitch
confused said:
Yes, let's cut all forms of income while the deficit is at an all-time high. Genius, fucking genius. Living in Holland I make a decent wage (pretty average), yet I pay 38.5% income tax. You guys don't know how good you have it.
But doesn't that include nearly everything? Health care, education, etc?
 

ToxicAdam

Member
speculawyer said:
And here is what will happen . . . they'll implement the tax cuts and get cold feet on the spending cuts such that situation actually gets worse.

We are doomed.


Pretty much.

All of these items they want to cut have champions in Congress. With the way Senate rules are set up, one lone Senator can stall the whole fucking thing if he wants to protect "program X" from being defunded. Reagan and the Republicans tried some of this in the 80's and met crazy resistance, even for small things.
 
thekad said:
It actually looks mostly good to me. Maybe I love the wealthy or corporations or something.

The income tax rate is extremely low as it is. The reason the bush tax cuts are expiring is because cutting them had no effect or even a detrimental effect on the deficit. So of course the solution to tax cuts not working is...cut them more? enough of this already.
 
badcrumble said:
FYI none of these things will end up being considered by Congress because they're nearly all politically toxic in one way or another.

This, guys.

There's a reason this isn't being proposed by elected officials.
 

Azih

Member
Mr. Lemming said:
It looks like Option 1, the one in the original post that drops the highest bracket to 23%, also counts all capital gains and dividends as ordinary income. Which is a huge change and explains the significant drop... would love to see someone run the numbers on how it actually affects taxable income.
Actually, that.. might... work. What's the tax on capital gains and dividends right now?
 
TomServo said:
Remove home mortgate interest deduction and and the keys to my house go in the mailbox as I walk away from it.

At least with option 2 it looks like mortgage interest deduction on a primary residence would remain but any 2nd homes or home equity loans would lose the deduction.

"Limit mortgage deduction to exclude 2nd residences, home equity loans, and mortgages over $500,000"
 
CharlieDigital said:
Before you get too depressed, realize that they are proposing removing a bunch of deductions and other offsets.

I read that, but I still believe this is an absurd concession to corpratism at the expense of the lower class. Egregious all the same.
 

eznark

Banned
StoOgE said:
I actually think option 1 and option zero are a tax hikes

It looks like a huge tax cut, but take away all deductions and treat Cap Gains as ordinary income and the top 1% will pay more.

This is a stealth tax hike disguised as a tax cut.

Bravo commission, Bravo.

That's going to be a non-starter. Some of that stuff looks like tit-for-tat from commission members so that they could all point to something the base would love. Paul Ryan can go to Milwaukee and say he fixed social security while Dick Durbin can go to Illinois and say he sure screwed Wall St.

It'll all get tossed and we'll be left with minor adjustments to social security that will be phased in over 100 years.
 

thekad

Banned
The draft proposes to cut our overseas bases by 1/3, saving 8.4 billion. There's a total of 100b in defense spending cuts, though a good amount of that is (real) wage cuts.

I'm going to go ahead and agree with eznark. Report's a nonstarter with our current representation.

state-of-the-art said:
I read that, but I still believe this is an absurd concession to corpratism at the expense of the lower class. Egregious all the same.

It's the effective tax rate that matters, which this report doesn't show.
 

turnbuckle

Member
Binabik15 said:
Quick, invest in umbrella manufacturer´s shares, people will have to buy the fuck out of umbrellas to shield themselves from all that trickling down!

I stupidly bought an Obama umbrella for $40 to help fund his campaign. I'm not sure it'll be able to withstand all that trickling.
 

Evlar

Banned
Zamorro said:
If some tax breaks are repealed, like the deductibility of mortgage interest payments, wouldn't that increase the tax burden for rich people on the whole?

I can't see how this would otherwise reduce the deficit.
There's a nice chart on it on Page 25 of the draft proposal. The top quintile definitely benefits the most from tax expenditures. The bottom two quintiles, however, still benefit to the tune of 6% to 8% of their after-tax income. And of course, 6% of your income is a much bigger deal to someone living paycheck-to-paycheck than it is to the top 1%.
 

eznark

Banned
Evlar said:
There's a nice chart on it on Page 25 of the draft proposal. The top quintile definitely benefits the most. The bottom two quintiles, however, still benefit to the tune of 6% to 8% of their after-tax income. And of course, 6% of your income is a much bigger deal to someone living paycheck-to-paycheck than it is to the top 1%.

11.10.10 DRAFT DOCUMENT – DO NOT QUOTE, CITE, OR RELEASE
:lol
 
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