• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Obama's Fiscal Responsibility Commission: Cut Taxes for the Wealthy

Status
Not open for further replies.

confused

Banned
shintoki said:
But doesn't that include nearly everything? Health care, education, etc?

Free education till the age of 18, free healthcare till the age of 18. After 18, you pay a minimum of 100 euros per month, and doesn't offer full coverage and has an own risk of 170 euros a year. If you want dental and premium coverage it's 170. On top of that we have 21% sales tax on everything. Extra taxing on alcohol and cigarettes.
 

ToxicAdam

Member
confused said:
Free education till the age of 18, free healthcare till the age of 18. After 18, you pay a minimum of 100 euros per month, and doesn't offer full coverage and has an own risk of 170 euros a year. If you want dental and premium coverage it's 170. On top of that we have 21% sales tax on everything. Extra taxing on alcohol and cigarettes.


fuuuck


Any property taxes?
 

ShowDog

Member
confused said:
Yes, let's cut all forms of income while the deficit is at an all-time high. Genius, fucking genius. Living in Holland I make a decent wage (pretty average), yet I pay 38.5% income tax. You guys don't know how good you have it.

After social security and state tax I pay about 30% and I make less than 40k, so don't think anyone is really only paying 10% in tax dude.

And then they tax everything you could spend your remaining salary on (property tax, sales tax etc). Don't know how it works in Holland or if it's the same.
 

eznark

Banned
Joe Shlabotnik said:
Those aren't just members of Congress, they're the commissioners on the panel. If at least 14 out of the 18 don't agree on a proposal in the next three weeks then the whole thing is shelved indefinitely.



Guess I was wrong to chuckle at Obama's PR blunder. Clearly this is the intended outcome.
 

confused

Banned
ShowDog said:
After social security and state tax I pay about 30% and I make less than 40k, so don't think anyone is really only paying 10% in tax dude.

Yet im making 30K euros a year, paying close to 40 % income tax if I add SS it comes up to 45%. And then 21 % sales tax on every purchase, even food.
 
thekad said:
The draft proposes to cut our overseas bases by 1/3, saving 8.4 billion. There's a total of 100b in defense spending cuts, though a good amount of that is (real) wage cuts.

I'm going to go ahead and agree with eznark. Report's a nonstarter with our current representation.



It's the effective tax rate that matters, which this report doesn't show.

I'm not following you.
 
badcrumble said:
No country in the world actually plans to pay down their deficit, FYI.

Except for Canada, until the Conservatives took over.

Also...
nNIYs.jpg
 

thekad

Banned
state-of-the-art said:
I'm not following you.

America has, IIRC, the second highest corporate income tax rate of all industrialized nations, but is below average in the effective corporate tax rate, ie what corporations actually pay, because of all the tax loopholes and tax shelters.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Mr. Lemming said:
15% if you are in the higher brackets.
Aye. I've been advocating treating them as normal income for a long time, so that's a portion of the report I can support. And it partly offsets the income tax cut.

The report is DOA, assuming it makes to to Congress in the first place.
 
Obama said:
# Require the Smithsonian museums to start charging entrance fees and raise fees at the national parks.
# Eliminate funding to the Corporation for Public Broadcasting -- which many conservatives suggested in the wake of the firing of former NPR contributor Juan Williams.


Oh yeah, this will make a huge difference in the budget and national debt.

Huge difference.

Fucking idiots.

Why not cancel public education as well? That costs money and is not profitable.
 

JoeBoy101

Member
jamesinclair said:
Oh yeah, this will make a huge difference in the budget and national debt.

Huge difference.

Fucking idiots.

Why not cancel public education as well? That costs money and is not profitable.

Except of course public education is not handled by the federal budget, otherwise. Its not like those items are the only things they are recommending. Read the report in full as opposed to just the OP.

gcubed said:
i'm going more for the plastic bottle standard... i've been saving them for years and will be ready when it happens.

I'm going to regret this...

It?
 

Barrett2

Member
Just think, if we got rid of that money-sink PBS, that's like, six extra missiles we could shoot at clay huts in Afghanistan that may or may not have Taliban fighters inside, whom may or may not pose any kind of actual threat to our National Security at this point.

What a sweet country.
 

gcubed

Member
JoeBoy101 said:
Except of course public education is not handled by the federal budget, otherwise. Its not like those items are the only things they are recommending. Read the report in full as opposed to just the OP.

umm... well... not ALL of it

I'm going to regret this...

It?

the move to the plastic bottle standard. you think they actually recycle those things? the governments been collecting them from recycling bins for YEARS. Its all a conspiracy
 

Binabik15

Member
lawblob said:
Just think, if we got rid of that money-sink PBS, that's like, six extra missiles we could shoot at clay huts in Afghanistan that may or may not have Taliban fighters inside, whom may or may not pose any kind of actual threat to our National Security at this point.

What a sweet country.

But the money spend on those rockets makes Dick Cheney and his friends rich, stupid.

Duh.
 

MrPliskin

Banned
Chichikov said:
I'm really losing patience with this administration.

The correct answer would be you're losing patience with our Government as a whole.

A dying car is still a dying car no matter who is driving it :lol
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Social Security cuts:
Index the retirement age to longevity -- i.e., increase the retirement age to qualify for Social Security -- to age 69 by 2075.

Index Social Security yearly increases to inflation rather than wages, which will generally mean lower cost of living increases and less money per average recipient.

"Increase progressivity of benefit formula" -- i.e., means test part of Social Security benefits by 2050.

Increase the Social Security contribution ceiling: while people only pay Social Security taxes on the first $106,800 of their wages today, that's only about 86% of the total potentially taxable wages. The co-chairs suggest raising the ceiling to capture 90% of wages.

Tax reform:
The co-chairs suggest capping both government expenditures and revenue at 21% of GDP eventually.

In their first plan, called "The Zero Plan," they suggest reducing the tax brackets to three personal brackets and one corporate rate while eliminated all credits and deductions. Without any credits or deductions (including the ETIC and mortgage interest deductions), the 3 tax rates would be 8, 14 and 23 percent.

In their second plan, they would increase the personal deduction to $15,000, create 3 tax brackets (15, 25 and 35%); repeal or significantly curtail a number of popular tax deductions (including the state and local deduction and the mortgage interest deduction); and eliminate other tax expenditures.

The third plan would force Congress to undertake comprehensive tax reform by 2012 by raising taxes for each year Congress fails to act.

All their proposals limit Congress to collecting taxes on income made within the United States, reducing or eliminating taxes on American expats and revenues companies earn abroad.

They also suggest raising the federal gas tax to 15 cents per gallon in 2013.

Medicaid/Medicare cuts

Force more low-income individuals into Medicaid managed care.

Increase Medicaid co-pays.

Accelerate already-planned cuts to Medicare Advantage and home health care programs.

Create a cap for Medicaid/Medicare growth that would force Congress and the President to increase premiums or co-pays or raise the Medicare eligibility age (among other options) if the system encounters cost overruns over the course of 5 years.

Discretionary spending cuts

Eliminate all earmarks.

Eliminate the Office of Safe and Drug-Free Schools.

Freeze federal worker wage increases through 2014; eliminate 200,000 federal jobs by 2020; and eliminate 250,000 federal non-defense contractor jobs by 2015.

Eliminate subsidized student loans, in which the government makes interest payments while the student is in school.

Establish co-pays in the VA medical system and change the co-pays and deductibles for military retirees that remain in that system.

Eliminate NASA funding for commercial space flight.

Require the Smithsonian museums to start charging entrance fees and raise fees at the national parks. This will equal an average of $7.50 per person in the Smithsonian museum and an increase of $0.25 per person at the national parks.

Eliminate funding to the Corporation for Public Broadcasting -- which many conservatives suggested in the wake of the firing of former NPR contributor Juan Williams.

Reduce farm subsidies by $3 billion per year.

Create a Committee to eliminate unnecessary programs to the tune of $11 billion by 2015.
Merge the Department of Commerce and the Small Business Administration and cut its budget by 10 percent.

End "low-priority" Army Corps of Engineers programs to the tune of $1 billion by 2015.
Cut the State Department's overseas budget by 10 percent by 2015; reduce the proposed foreign aid budget by 10 percent in 2015; and cut voluntary contributions to the United Nations by 10 percent in 2015.

Eliminate the Overseas Private Investment Corporation, which provides subsidized financing and political risk insurance for U.S. companies' investments abroad.

Cut $900 million in fossil fuel research funds.

Force airlines to increase their contributions to airline security costs and allow them to increase per-ticket security fees.

Defense spending cuts:

Double the number of defense contractor positions scheduled for elimination from 10 percent of current staff augmentees to 20 percent.

Reduce procurement by 15 percent, or $20 billion.

Eliminate the V-22 Osprey program.

Cancel the Marine Corps' Expeditionary Fighting Vehicle program.

Halve the number of F-35 Joint Strike Fighters in favor of F-16s and F/A-18Es.
Cancel the Marine Corps F-35 program
.

Cancel the Navy's Future Maritime Prepositioning Force.

Cancel the new Joint Light Tactical Vehicle (JLTV), the Ground Combat Vehicle, and the Joint Tactical Radio.

Reduce military forces in Europe and Asia by one-third.

Send all military children based in the U.S. to local schools.

The report also recommends tort reform as a way to reduce Medicare and Medicaid expenditure

Cuts bitch!

Man that's alot of got damn cuts. In some strange way (after doing more reading) I sorta respect this commission for at least throwing every damn thing on the table. Some I like and some I don't like.

But at least somebody is doing something, instead of talking all the time about the deficit.
 
Well, if it makes SS last the next 75 years, I'm good till at least 101, so sounds great to me.

Too bad my kids are fucked.
 
mckmas8808 said:
Cuts bitch!

Man that's alot of got damn cuts. In some strange way (after doing more reading) I sorta respect this commission for at least throwing every damn thing on the table. Some I like and some I don't like.

But at least somebody is doing something, instead of talking all the time about the deficit.

You mean "every damn thing on the table except anything that doesn't benefit the wealthy/corporations"
 
PhoenixDark said:
You mean "every damn thing on the table except anything that doesn't benefit the wealthy/corporations"

Limiting deductions is a huge hit to corporations and counting dividends/capital gains as ordinary income is a huge hit to the wealthy. There is something in here for everyone to hate!
 
All their proposals limit Congress to collecting taxes on income made within the United States, reducing or eliminating taxes on American expats and revenues companies earn abroad.​

Well I know where all my corporate earnings will NOT be coming from!
 

GhaleonEB

Member
A reader from TPM made an astute observation. The report really goes into government discretionary spending and Social Security. But real budget problem is Medicare. Not just its size, but the growth rate of Medicare is what's chewing up the federal budget down the road. And this report does almost nothing to it. It's basically slashing everything else, but doesn't do much to push the growth curve down at all.

Social Security has less of a growth problem. It basically needs a one-time tick up in revenue (lift the payroll tax cap!) and it's fine. But Medicare has a major growth problem. Any serious proposal would have tackled that first.
 

gcubed

Member
Mr. Lemming said:
Limiting deductions is a huge hit to corporations and counting dividends/capital gains as ordinary income is a huge hit to the wealthy. There is something in here for everyone to hate!

there is.. there are a lot of ideas to digest. I do like tying the budget to GDP, i like clearing corporate loophole and in turn lowering the tax rate on corporations. I like tying capital gains to your tax rate, i like a lot of the cuts.

i'm with tomservo though, you eliminate deductions on mortgage insurance you can kiss my ass
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
ToxicAdam said:
I guess it's time for us all to join defense contractors. They clearly hold the leaders by the balls.

Fixed.

If it was the military, the soldiers would at least get pay increases.
 

thekad

Banned
GhaleonEB said:
A reader from TPM made an astute observation. The report really goes into government discretionary spending and Social Security. But real budget problem is Medicare. Not just its size, but the growth rate of Medicare is what's chewing up the federal budget down the road. And this report does almost nothing to it. It's basically slashing everything else, but doesn't do much to push the growth curve down at all.

Social Security has less of a growth problem. It basically needs a one-time tick up in revenue (lift the payroll tax cap!) and it's fine. But Medicare has a major growth problem. Any serious proposal would have tackled that first.


There are cuts in Medicare et al on pages 32-36.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Mr. Lemming said:
Limiting deductions is a huge hit to corporations and counting dividends/capital gains as ordinary income is a huge hit to the wealthy. There is something in here for everyone to hate!


Good point.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
thekad said:
There are cuts in Medicare et al on pages 32-36.


Yeah like me early, people need to slow down, because there's cuts for EVERYBODY here. It's the number 1 reason why this commission's report will never ever pass our "body" of Congress.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
thekad said:
There are cuts in Medicare et al on pages 32-36.
"almost nothing"

They are a pittance compared to the growth rate and the overall size of the problem. They have some good ideas (strengthening the Medicare commission, for instance), but some are overly vague (discounts for Medicare part D? Okay, what kind? How big? Why not direct negotiations like the VA does?) By contrast, Social Security gets ripped pretty hard.

Edit: White House statement steers clear:

"The President will wait until the bipartisan fiscal commission finishes its work before commenting. He respects the challenging task that the Co-Chairs and the Commissioners are undertaking and wants to give them space to work on it. These ideas, however, are only a step in the process towards coming up with a set of recommendations and the President looks forward to reviewing their final product early next month," said White House spokesperson, Bill Burton.​

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2010/11/white_house_not_biting.php#more
 
gcubed said:
i'm with tomservo though, you eliminate deductions on mortgage insurance you can kiss my ass

Why should anyone get a tax deduction based on their mortgage interest?

I ask this as a home owner.

Doesn't make sense to me.

If you're not for Fanny/Freddie, how can you be for the government subsidizing your home purchase?
 
CharlieDigital said:
Why should anyone get a tax deduction based on their mortgage interest?

I ask this as a home owner.

Doesn't make sense to me.

If you're not for Fanny/Freddie, how can you be for the government subsidizing your home purchase?
It gives incentive to buy a better house and improve neighborhoods. A family that may only be able to afford a 50,000 dollars house can afford a 75,000 dollar house, [maybe] improving their quality of life.
 
balladofwindfishes said:
It gives incentive to buy a better house and improve neighborhoods. A family that may only be able to afford a 50,000 dollars house can afford a 75,000 dollar house, [maybe] improving their quality of life.
So what happened to buying within your means?
 

gcubed

Member
CharlieDigital said:
So what happened to buying within your means?

it adjusts your means. You can kiss my ass = i will not own a home. There would be no real incentive in owning a home, on the contrary, you would drop the home ownership in this country a decent rate. You can rent a house just as easily and not have to worry about property taxes, school taxes, etc.
 
CharlieDigital said:
So what happened to buying within your means?
The American economy doesn't work that way

Corporations don't even work that way. Very, very few businesses are started without any debt to the owner. If the owner didn't go outside his means, the business wouldn't have existed.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
CharlieDigital said:
This isn't from Obama, this is from a panel that was commissioned by him.


Everybody needs to understand this point. This isn't from the members of Congress on the panel either.

I've chilled out after learning more about this report and from whom it's from.
 
gcubed said:
it adjusts your means. You can kiss my ass = i will not own a home. There would be no real incentive in owning a home, on the contrary, you would drop the home ownership in this country a decent rate. You can rent a house just as easily and not have to worry about property taxes, school taxes, etc.
Why should you have an incentive to own a home aside from having your own private property and a roof over your head?

And what makes you think the market and housing prices wouldn't adjust to this?
 

dave is ok

aztek is ok
Thank god. Maybe when the rich finally get a 0% tax rate, the recession will stop. They are the ones that create jobs you know
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom