Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity is getting a turn-based mode
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Hudo
Member
On one hand: That's awesome. Turn-based is my jam and the real-time with pause combat utilized in CRPGs is just bad (I have yet to see a CRPG with a good implementation of it).
On the other hand: Unless they also redo all the encounters, this change will cause the game to just take ages to get through.
On the other hand: Unless they also redo all the encounters, this change will cause the game to just take ages to get through.
Hudo
Member
Yes, they put it in some time after release. And while it makes the combat itself better (imho), they didn't touch the encounters. There are a lot of trash fights in these games by virtue of being able to "breeze" through them with a real-time with pause combat. With turn-based combat, the pacing of the game slows down significantly due to this.
Lux R7
Member
i agree with you, but my problem is the party. it doesn't feel good tot me to control 5+ chars in real time. So for example in Neverwinter Nights you have real time with pause combat but you just control 1 char and that's fine to me.
Mister Wolf
Member
Maybe they finally add full controller support to the PC versions of the game.
Sentenza
Member
MEH. Who cares.
Regginator
Member
Not sure how to feel about this, but I fear the worst for PoE3. I suppose it's cool for the people who wanted this as an option, but if Pillars 2's turn-based mode is any indication, it will DRASTICALLY slow down the game's combat pacing. The Pillars games simply have not been designed with another combat system in mind other than RTwP.
I desperately hope a potential PoE3 keeps the RTwP combat, but with the success of BG3 and Obsidian's recent attempts to patch the Pillars games with turn-based, I think it's likely they're going to commit to turn-based, unfortunately. I haven't played BG3 yet, but the Divinity OS games were incredibly slow and boring to play.
I desperately hope a potential PoE3 keeps the RTwP combat, but with the success of BG3 and Obsidian's recent attempts to patch the Pillars games with turn-based, I think it's likely they're going to commit to turn-based, unfortunately. I haven't played BG3 yet, but the Divinity OS games were incredibly slow and boring to play.
JaxarGT
Member
It's wild that they didn't considering there are consoles versions already.
Mister Wolf
Member
I know. Huge oversight on their part. Stupid omissions like that is why Larian and Owlcat's success with these cRPGs continued to improve, while Obsidian sank.
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Hudo
Member
That's one of the reasons why I think there's no good implementation of a real-time with pause combat in CRPGs. Ironically, Neverwinter Nights 1 is also the only game "in that spirit" that I like. And a huge part of the reason is that the real-time with pause combat gets bearable when you just control 1 character.
vaibhavpisal
Member
I am thinking POE3 will be built with pc + consoles in mind. Turn based will be better for that.
With that said, there is nothing like a good RTWP system, so hopefully they will make other smaller pc focused games as well.
With that said, there is nothing like a good RTWP system, so hopefully they will make other smaller pc focused games as well.
Punished Miku
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I never did finish the 1st one. Got maybe 10 hours into it. Avowed is demanding that I go back to play these. Tons of lore nonstop from past games, especially Deadfire.
Sentenza
Member
No one who's even remotely serious about playing this type of party based CRPG should want to play it on a controller.
People asking for it are probably the same who ask for RTS with a controller UI; which means they are the people who are "somewhat curious about it", but don't actually care. All they want is to dip in quickly to try the game (with the one control scheme they are somewhat familiar with), but in the end they will hardly ever commit to an extended playtime.
Even Baldur's Gate 3, which is SOMEHOW considered the golden standard for offering the option, it's overall an absolutely miserable experience with a controller.
Not too good with mouse and keyboard either, given Larian's obstinantion in not including a proper click-and-drag-to-select, but forcing the players to deal with their crappy chain/autofollow system
I'm not a fan of the concept, but the two Baldur's Gate and Aarklash Legacy are still the best implementations of it that I can think of.
One of the many reasons I always thought it was complete garbage and a massive let down compared to Bioware's works that preceded it (Baldur's Gate 1 and 2).
People asking for it are probably the same who ask for RTS with a controller UI; which means they are the people who are "somewhat curious about it", but don't actually care. All they want is to dip in quickly to try the game (with the one control scheme they are somewhat familiar with), but in the end they will hardly ever commit to an extended playtime.
Even Baldur's Gate 3, which is SOMEHOW considered the golden standard for offering the option, it's overall an absolutely miserable experience with a controller.
Not too good with mouse and keyboard either, given Larian's obstinantion in not including a proper click-and-drag-to-select, but forcing the players to deal with their crappy chain/autofollow system
Is there one in other genres?
I'm not a fan of the concept, but the two Baldur's Gate and Aarklash Legacy are still the best implementations of it that I can think of.
NWN isn't even an RTWP at its core. It's quite literally meant to be played in real-time and then they threw in the option to pause (when you are in single-player) just for good measure.
One of the many reasons I always thought it was complete garbage and a massive let down compared to Bioware's works that preceded it (Baldur's Gate 1 and 2).
IF POE3 even happens, that's probably why it will be the worst in the series.
Major Insano
Member
And add full M&K support for the console games.
These games are a chore to play with a contoller imo.
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Dazraell
Member
I believe Paradox's internal team handled console ports of Pillars 1. This might be a reason why PC version never got controller support
vaibhavpisal
Member
Cant be worse than part 1 which I couldn't finish due to combat.
But am gonna try part 2 cause heard they improved it.
Hudo
Member
I do think as far as RPGs go, FF12 Zodiac Age has the best implementation of it. The Gambit system is genius in how such a simple idea can have such a big impact.
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
Same. I love the story and writing but the combat in these games just isn't that fun. I'm not big into CRPGs at all though. I put it on story mode but still ended up moving on.
vaibhavpisal
Member
Biggest issue for me was that fights mostly resolve themselves, with little input from me.
I heard they improved part 2 and it feels good to play.
But will play it on pc at some point.
SomeNorseGuy
Member
Can't wait, just wish they'd implement it like Owlcat did. Being able to switch between modes on the fly Is samazing. RTwP for easy fights and TB for hard encounters/bosses.
ClanOfNone
Member
Both of Owlcat's Pathfinder games launched with a turn based option, Obsidian lttp as usual.
As an og BG1/2 vet, I love my rtwp, but more options are never a bad thing. I fear for Pillars 3 though, I don't really trust Obsidian to not fuck it up at this point.
A shame, the first two games were pretty good, and a return to form for the kind of crpg's that I had thought gone.
Then there was Tyranny, which was their best work in ages and nobody fuckin played it. I'd love a console port for that so I can play it again.
As an og BG1/2 vet, I love my rtwp, but more options are never a bad thing. I fear for Pillars 3 though, I don't really trust Obsidian to not fuck it up at this point.
A shame, the first two games were pretty good, and a return to form for the kind of crpg's that I had thought gone.
Then there was Tyranny, which was their best work in ages and nobody fuckin played it. I'd love a console port for that so I can play it again.
Kingmaker didn't.
Cyberpunkd
Member
This. BG3 is super fun, but the combat in the game is one giant slog.
Hemingwayoffbase
Member
This is awesome. The lack of turn based definitely kept me from playing this.
Is there confirmation that this is coming to consoles?
Is there confirmation that this is coming to consoles?
ClanOfNone
Member
Huh, I coulda swore it did, but you are correct sir, it was patched in later.
I played it on console, maybe it launched there after they updated the game or my old man memory is just shit.
Sentenza
Member
It was a fan-made mod for more than a year before they patched it in as an official optional mode.
Interestingly enough the mod was better than their official implementation in several ways.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
I can't see myself wanting to play the game that way, but it's super cool to see them adding it to the game this far after the fact. I'd really like to revisit Pillars 1 - I never did get a chance to play the DLC expansions. The original is probably my favorite CRPG ever.
It may be because BG3 sold a billion copies. It's not the worst idea in the world, but I think doing it well is a lot more involved than just changing the combat system. Retroactively applying turn-based to encounters and sequences of encounters which were designed for rtwp is not enough.
March Climber
Member
My only small gripe seeing this. It needs a 2x or 4x speed option for that long wait time and animation buildup.
Otherwise I like the idea.
Hudo
Member
That's actually not a bad idea. Certainly a cheaper solution than redoing/rethinking all the encounters for a turn-based mode.My only small gripe seeing this. It needs a 2x or 4x speed option for that long wait time and animation buildup.
Otherwise I like the idea.
March Climber
Member
It has been a boon for modern turn based JRPG releases, to the point where I feel the option needs to be in every turn based game.
Just think about at how much wait time we can shed in OP's video alone.
Wildebeest
Member
They adopted a community mod from Kingmaker and didn't rebalance the game at all. I still really like them, but Owlcat Pathfinder games were known for having really fucked up extreme balance from the start that doesn't really follow the guidelines of the tabletop game. Not only did they not rebalance the encounter rate for turn based, but you are also going to be reloaded some of their long turn based fights until you get ten super lucky rolls in a row because that is shit hot game balance for Russians. Technically, they can't even rebalance any shit for turn based because you can flip in and out of turn based at any time.
pudel
Member
Isnt that a good thing?
Zacfoldor
Member
They had a sale on it the other day on PS Store so I bit. I had it on gamepass but never played it before I cancelled.
Hate to give Sir Adam a win here but honestly Avowed they said performed well for them so maybe they are bringing the whole catalog of related games up while they are working on POE3 maybe?
Also they saw how successful Larian was with qol updates in BG3 and maybe thought they could do the same, and they can! Everyone can! Be more like Larian.
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Soodanim
Member
Would you mind elaborating? They're both on my to-do list and it sounds like your insight would be useful
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ClanOfNone
Member
You can tweak individual party member's combat behavior to tailor it more to your liking.
You can also set up the game to auto-pause on a billion different things.
I'm convinced that half the people that hate rtwp have never really messed around with the systems there.
It makes battles so much faster, I don't want to spend like half an hour plus on combat encounters. The first time I triggered the goblin fight at the fortress in BG3 and it was my 4 man squad versus like 30 enemies I thought that shit would never end.
Rtwp battles last as long as you want them to, you can set it up to auto-pause to stop after every action, or let things rip. Makes replaying tough battles less taxing and less time consuming.
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