Should the Final Fantasy series go back to the turn based combat?
- Thread starter LordOcidax
- Start date
Drell
Member
In that case tell me why is it FF that should shift to real time and other licenses continue what FF did in the past and not the other way around? To me, the current paradigm is stupid because you'd better build up your big franchise on what made its success and try new ideas with new IPs.
swaffles23
Member
They should do both. FFX battle system is the goat and also the Rebirth system is great and I wanna see them continue to use it
Wandering Leopard
Member
Nahh. Generally, real-time combat offers more engaging and deeper (gameplay) mechanics - as longs as devs need to implement it in the right way eg FF7r.
Radical_3d
Member
DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
Why do people care so much about Final Fantasy? We get what, 1 mainline FF game per generation? Does it even matter whether it's turn based?
I feel like the people crying about this care more about having their opinions validated than about actually playing this hypothetical turn based FF game. And most of them would find some other reason to hate it anyway.
FWIW I think the best FF battle systems are the ones that incorporate elements of both turn based and real time: XII, XIII, and VII Remake.
BTW there are still shitloads of turn based JRPGs coming out every year, including even FF spinoff games. You guys can drop the persecution complex now.
I feel like the people crying about this care more about having their opinions validated than about actually playing this hypothetical turn based FF game. And most of them would find some other reason to hate it anyway.
FWIW I think the best FF battle systems are the ones that incorporate elements of both turn based and real time: XII, XIII, and VII Remake.
BTW there are still shitloads of turn based JRPGs coming out every year, including even FF spinoff games. You guys can drop the persecution complex now.
DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
I honestly hated this system. I think RPGs are best when you put together a party and come up with a strategy around their strengths/weaknesses/synergies.
With FFX, the only strategy was "swap in the character who can hit this enemy's weak point". Plus you're constantly swapping just so characters can do something to earn AP.
Liopleurodon
Member
I wouldn't have anything against turn based combat again - especially if it is something similar to FFX-2.
Ferdimage
Member
Grandia is still my favourite battle system.
Then Valkyrie Profile 2, heck FF can even borrow from these 2 games.
ComputerBlue
Member
I absolutely love the combat in Final Fantasy 7 Remake. Fuck me I guess.
LordOcidax
Member
Also the "new audience" loves turn based games, look at Pokemon.
kikii
Member
yes this ^^ i voted NO and never even tried fortnite
Trogdor1123
Member
I haven't played it yet. Can you tell us about it a bit?
ZehDon
Member
I haven't played Final Fantasy XVI - how was it's take on Real Time Action combat? The first part of the Final Fantasy VII Remake (never played the second part) seemed like a good first attempt to evolve the series down that road, but it definitely needed some work. I think Square are desperate for Final Fantasy to be a big series again, and I'm not sure they'll get their desired level of success with a turned based combat system. That's as much down to their inflated budgets requiring massive sales as it is the market's taste having shifted since FF's hayday.
Expedition 33 is amazing, but it was made by 30 people, and doesn't need to sell 5 million copies just to break even. Final Fantasy would need to scope down enormously to succeed in that kind of niche.
Expedition 33 is amazing, but it was made by 30 people, and doesn't need to sell 5 million copies just to break even. Final Fantasy would need to scope down enormously to succeed in that kind of niche.
BacklashWave534
Member
You lost any remaining credibility with the words "like Lightning Returns".
BacklashWave534
Member
Couldn't agree more. It's a soulless MMO clone.
Swapping every character for AP was dumb. Though it was common of RPGs from the time to not give exp to benched party members.
I do like the Shin megami team building, and how demon swaps costs a half-turn. Press-turn is a really good turn based system.
My line of thought is, if the party is character based I prefer the 10 system. Gives more reason to move characters around.
If you build the party (shin megami, pokemon) I don't mind the more traditional route.
Myths
Member
Yep, classic case of correlation is not causation. I would argue for FF, it's not as much the battle system as it is the overall game structure and progression. Since 13, it seems like battle => dialogue/cutscene => battle
Maybe 15 is an exception given the open world format. What's missing is puzzle and level design structure to progression, cast non combat spells to figure things out. Push a boulder, acquire key items, cast a spell (whatever happened to Float and Mini?) to modify yourself. Find a way across the river, juggle manipulating info out of NPC's…
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TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
That's pretty much Vagrant Story. Would be cool to have more games like that.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
There is pure stat RPG, and then there is an action game.
There is a line between these two extremes, but clearly if you are more of an action game you have less RPG. You can have a mix, but FF was originally an RPG and SquareEnix is forgetting what that means. Much like how Bethesda is slowly removing RPG elements from their TES and Fallout franchises. Except Squareenix is not even pretending they are making RPGs anymore.
There is a line between these two extremes, but clearly if you are more of an action game you have less RPG. You can have a mix, but FF was originally an RPG and SquareEnix is forgetting what that means. Much like how Bethesda is slowly removing RPG elements from their TES and Fallout franchises. Except Squareenix is not even pretending they are making RPGs anymore.
EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
Because they already got franchises that are turned based and the fact that the All the entries are different and only the name remains the same makes this entire thing even more irrelevant because you could just swap out any fucking final fantasy with a bravely default and just pretend that's what they lead with regarding the franchise
So I'm sorry you're bickering over a name showing something and being turned based in disregarding the concept already exist with the company
So I think they're completely fine to go their current path there have with the action based stuff they're doing as there's not really one way to make a JRPG
And they built their franchise off of being different with each entry there was nothing that argued final fantasy was supposed to say the same regarding its gameplay especially considering a lot of the games did so many different things there is no reason for them to stay in one game play type as that doesn't make sense based on what the franchise's generally did...
Which actually means it makes just as much sense for them to just make a random turn base one as for them to make it action because each entry was different in the first place.....
Keep in mind I don't even see any evidence that what made final fantasy successful will solely turn based
Bravely default and octopath technically should be outselling final fantasies if such a fucking thing was true so I don't see any evidence to really support any of that lol
I think you simply wish that was true.
lol here is your FF, lets print it out and you have your wish sir lol
Look, you win. OMG BRO, they really did it WOOOOOW! /s lolz
This 1000x
This obsession with them wanting to be validated with having some turn based title CALLED FINAL FANTASY is hilarious
Even if we took bravely default 3 and they decided to say fuck it let's just name it "final fantasy" I think you'll have a lot of them fooled and then when they find out internally it was supposed to be bravely default they'll just start fucking complaining about some other dumb shit lol
Because each entry is different they're basically arguing over the title of something....
I'm just happy they still make turn based games and that's good enough for me whether or not one of the main final fantasies is that is completely irrelevant. I'm fine with them experimenting and keeping it action.
The entire thing is semantics and Square has a game if you want that with Final Fantasy, its called Bravely Default, Octopath Traveler etc
Kataploom
I mean sure, but they already do, it called Bravely Default and Octopath So fuck me man, not only do they have 1 spin off like this, they have 2....they literally have 2 fucking IP devoted to that old concept and folks are stuck on a NAME.
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genesisblock
Member
No. Once you're character is overleveled, you're just spamming over and over again, you might as well create a Macro that makes you run around enabling the "X" mashing continuously.
Why people find this engaging is blowing my mind. Do they just watch YT or any social media, so then can level up without any thought process? Usually, the mechanics peak midway or during Boss battles where you had to actually target weaknesses or defend but this will be extremely tedious in a grind the limit is there.
The only innovation I've seen when it comes to turn based combat was Undertale. If only more experimented like this, then I'll be open to turn-based combat again. FF7's remake combat system is already refined as it is and it should be the standard moving forward.
Why people find this engaging is blowing my mind. Do they just watch YT or any social media, so then can level up without any thought process? Usually, the mechanics peak midway or during Boss battles where you had to actually target weaknesses or defend but this will be extremely tedious in a grind the limit is there.
The only innovation I've seen when it comes to turn based combat was Undertale. If only more experimented like this, then I'll be open to turn-based combat again. FF7's remake combat system is already refined as it is and it should be the standard moving forward.
Larxia
Member
No.
The people saying this everytime a new turn based game is popular seem to forget / not see something very obvious : those modern turn based games that are popular, always have much, much better turn based than the ones we have in most j-rpgs.
I always thought I just hated turn based in general, because of games like FF or Dragon Quest. I still played several episodes, but I always disliked the combats and just found them pointless. They usually don't involve any strategy, it's incredibly simple and basic, and most of the time just involves auto attack, with the occasional spell every now and then.
The turn based games that are popular nowadays usually involve much better turn based systems than the ones likes this. For example, I really enjoyed the combats in Baldur's Gate 3, and that's when I saw I could truly enjoy turn based system. Then I played Midnight Suns and I loved that even more.
I'm currently playing Persona 5, and while it's more simple / basic, it's still more dynamic, with a lot more features and "complexity" than what FF / Dragon Quest used to offer with Turn Based.
I haven't played Clair Obscur but from what I've seen, it's also in the vein of Persona.
If Square Enix were to release a new FF, turn based, but it played like FF X, I'm sure there would be a lot of complaints about the gameplay, and it would be really boring. I'm more open to turn based than I used to be, but I don't want for games to go back to THIS type of turn based.
Now, if they updated it to something more fun and interesting, why not, but usually when I see people begging for the return of turn based, it seems that they just want ps1 style turn based to come back, and they think that everyone would be open to that just because they enjoy some new games with turn based, but these games, like I said, have much more interesting turn based systems than the old school style people want to return to.
The people saying this everytime a new turn based game is popular seem to forget / not see something very obvious : those modern turn based games that are popular, always have much, much better turn based than the ones we have in most j-rpgs.
I always thought I just hated turn based in general, because of games like FF or Dragon Quest. I still played several episodes, but I always disliked the combats and just found them pointless. They usually don't involve any strategy, it's incredibly simple and basic, and most of the time just involves auto attack, with the occasional spell every now and then.
The turn based games that are popular nowadays usually involve much better turn based systems than the ones likes this. For example, I really enjoyed the combats in Baldur's Gate 3, and that's when I saw I could truly enjoy turn based system. Then I played Midnight Suns and I loved that even more.
I'm currently playing Persona 5, and while it's more simple / basic, it's still more dynamic, with a lot more features and "complexity" than what FF / Dragon Quest used to offer with Turn Based.
I haven't played Clair Obscur but from what I've seen, it's also in the vein of Persona.
If Square Enix were to release a new FF, turn based, but it played like FF X, I'm sure there would be a lot of complaints about the gameplay, and it would be really boring. I'm more open to turn based than I used to be, but I don't want for games to go back to THIS type of turn based.
Now, if they updated it to something more fun and interesting, why not, but usually when I see people begging for the return of turn based, it seems that they just want ps1 style turn based to come back, and they think that everyone would be open to that just because they enjoy some new games with turn based, but these games, like I said, have much more interesting turn based systems than the old school style people want to return to.
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hemo memo
You can't die before your death
SMT games says hi.
GateofD
Member
Idk, does it have to be strictly turn based to count, I always considered ATB action waiting to be turn based
Imru’ al-Qays
Member
This is the opposite of reality. Turn-based combat is vastly more engaging and deeper than real-time combat in an RPG, particularly a party-based RPG. The best JRPG combat systems have been developed by Atlus and the Clair Obscur devs and they're all turn-based.
sendit
Member
Subjective
Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
Huh?
Arguably FF1-12 most agree are the best of the bunch. 14 is the second most played mmo.
13 was too linear. 15 was a mess from development. 16 was barely a rpg.
So 3 mid games to 13 good ones?
I'll even give you remake of 7 and rebirth are bad for arguments sake and you still have 5 mid games to 13 good ones.
The franchise has been good FAR more than bad, and even at its worst it's better than 90% of JRPGs coming out of Japan. Few exceptions.
It's not too late for this franchise to kick it up a notch.
Sleepwalker
Member
Its pretty much classic turn based with a parry/dodge/jump/attack timing system that makes it dynamic and fun without disrupting its turn based nature.
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diffusionx
Gold Member
I don't understand this argument. "moving on" implies that there is some sort of progression to what they are doing with these games and there so obviously is not. if they replaced the turn based combat with something good then people would be cool with it, but they haven't. The last two main entries have the worst combat in the series. At the same time other games are coming out and embracing TBS and are finding an audience and are very successful.
People want FF to go back to turn-based because the turn-based games are better than the stuff they are putting out now as they "move on."
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IFireflyl
Gold Member
Men_in_Boxes
voted no. That should tell everyone else voting no that they picked the wrong side.
bitbydeath
Member
I would take it a step further and go for the same level of production values.
FF7 > FF8 took 2 years to create.
FF8 > FF9 took 1 year to create.
Why more devs don't go this route to save time and make a ton more money along the way absolutely bewilders me.
FF7 > FF8 took 2 years to create.
FF8 > FF9 took 1 year to create.
Why more devs don't go this route to save time and make a ton more money along the way absolutely bewilders me.
Imru’ al-Qays
Member
Wrong.
Mister Wolf
Member
Yes. Real Time Turn Based like the original FF7.