Dude Abides
Banned
Dunk#7 said:
Your comment has been addressed, repeatedly, so no it isn't particularly relevant since it's been done to death.
FYI less than 10% of the private sector is unionized. Look elsewhere for your scapegoat.
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Occupy Wall St - Occupy Everywhere, Occupy Together!
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Your comment has been addressed, repeatedly, so no it isn't particularly relevant since it's been done to death.
FYI less than 10% of the private sector is unionized. Look elsewhere for your scapegoat.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
Oh man. If we just got rid of those pesky Unions, everyone would have jobs! Why didn't we see it before?!
Dunk#7 said:
Generalize much?
Dunk#7 said:
Yeah man, those overpaid factory workers! They should be getting paid less and the company should make more profit..they deserve it, right?
Dunk#7 said:
So IT jobs that they have been shipping overseas are because of fucking unions? Sorry, but they are getting shipped over because the companies here don't want to pay what the job is worth. They make more profit and get what needs to be done for much less while screwing over the country that makes them popular in the first place.
Dunk#7 said:
Last time I checked I could be fired for basically anything the company wanted to. I have no damn laws covering my ass. What do you do for a living?
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
Thanks for the acknowledgment!dave is ok said:
badcrumble
Member
What people need to understand here is that both employed people and unemployed people ought to ally against the 1% who want to pit them against each other.
There's a REASON this has been called a 'jobless recovery.' There's been a massive transfer of money to the wealthy; and it's GOOD for the wealthy if there's a lot of unemployment. That keeps their employees scared shitless of asking for raises or better treatment at work because they know there are tons of desperate people out there who'd love to replace them because they need to be able to feed their own kids.
High unemployment is used to drive wages and salaries down for the benefit of the wealthy. Both the unemployed and the employed need to figure this out and ally against the folks who are exploiting them.
People saying 'just get a job!!!!' are so stupid that even the most right-wing expert economists don't adopt that sort of position - which is, essentially, a claim that the overall condition of the economy doesn't have anything to do with the ease of finding work. That claim is pretty much ignorant lunacy, which is why nobody with a shred of intelligence and education will make it.
There's a REASON this has been called a 'jobless recovery.' There's been a massive transfer of money to the wealthy; and it's GOOD for the wealthy if there's a lot of unemployment. That keeps their employees scared shitless of asking for raises or better treatment at work because they know there are tons of desperate people out there who'd love to replace them because they need to be able to feed their own kids.
High unemployment is used to drive wages and salaries down for the benefit of the wealthy. Both the unemployed and the employed need to figure this out and ally against the folks who are exploiting them.
People saying 'just get a job!!!!' are so stupid that even the most right-wing expert economists don't adopt that sort of position - which is, essentially, a claim that the overall condition of the economy doesn't have anything to do with the ease of finding work. That claim is pretty much ignorant lunacy, which is why nobody with a shred of intelligence and education will make it.
Marleyman said:
I DID NOT say the company should make more profit by paying their workers less. I said they should not have the wages over inflated by the union so that they have the funds to hire more people.
I am an electrical engineer that is involved in sales and technical support at an electrical distributor.
I can be fired at any time for any reason. That is the way it should be.
If that reason turns out to be unjust then I have the legal system to fight that battle.
I am not entitled to my position. It is up to those above me to decide if I am needed.
badcrumble
Member
jesus christDunk#7 said:
That's all well and good, but society has to function, and a society where more then half the population isn't needed- that half of the population will have no stake in preserving the society. You'll end up with a revolution or worse.
That's why I support the 99%, that's the future I wish to prevent.
That's why I support the 99%, that's the future I wish to prevent.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
Well, considering open carry is now illegal in CA, they would be arrested at the very least.Bad_Boy said:
empty vessel
Member
Dunk#7 said:
Your understanding of capitalism appears to be deficient. Help me finish this sentence. Revenue less wages and other expenses equals _______.
Also, please explain to me why it is in anybody's interest who works for a living to have a lower wage? Once again, you seem to misunderstand how capitalism works.
Dunk#7 said:
Their job is literally to screw you over. They have fiduciary duties to shareholders, who get to keep whatever revenue they prevent you from having. Your interests are directly opposed to your employers' interests.
If your company is a publicly owned corporation then those in power above you are the shareholders of the company.
And shareholders are very definitely out to screw you over.
Even: And even if your company is not publicly owned it's competing against companies who are and working in a situation where the most powerful entities are publicly owned corps. Race to the Bottom. Wee!
And shareholders are very definitely out to screw you over.
Even: And even if your company is not publicly owned it's competing against companies who are and working in a situation where the most powerful entities are publicly owned corps. Race to the Bottom. Wee!
Dude Abides
Banned
Dunk#7 said:
Nope.
HammerOfThor
Member
Marleyman said:
Wait can someone explain what happened on Oakland?
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
Why not? Are you assuming unjust isn't due to a violation of is at will agreement, or prohibited reason, et al?Dude Abides said:
What do you mean over-inflated?Dunk#7 said:
Every labor agreement is signed by both management and labor.
Are you suggesting that labor should not try to get the best deal that they can?
And that's free market for you?
Wait, I don't see how the bolded gel with everything else.Dunk#7 said:
You either can be fired for any or every reason, or the government get regulate what you can or can't be fired for.
How would the free market address unjust firing?
Dude Abides
Banned
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
I can think of a million unjust reasons you'd get fired and have no recourse.
If he doesn't like you because you're too short, too tall, too fat, too skinny, you're shit out of luck. If he fires you because he doesn't like Eagles fans and you're an Eagles fan, you're shit out of luck. If you boss fires you because he wants to fuck your wife and hopes she'll leave you if you're unemployed, you're shit out of luck.
Edit: except in Wyoming.
teruterubozu
Member
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
It's SUPER rare that someone gets fired and takes the company to court and wins. In fact, most companies make you sign your life away when you get hired, saying that you won't ever sue (if you read between the lines).
empty vessel
Member
Dunk#7 said:
So he clearly opposes your interests as an employee. How could it not be more clear?
Unfortunately, what American companies seem to excel at in terms of competition is wage suppression. It'd be nice if they competed in reducing the actual cost of operations outside of wages, e.g., increasing genuine productivity.
Chichikov said:
Just because the you can be fired for any reason does not make that reason indisputable in the court of law.
If a company had that policy and fired somebody for something ridiculous like having a small limp I am pretty sure the legal system could fight and win that battle.
Yeah, but that's government regulation that interfere with free market.Dunk#7 said:
I mean, you either have a system where you "can be fired at any time for any reason" (which you said is "[...] the way it should be") or there are some regulations that limit the freedom of companies.
And just so we're clear, personally, I'm fine with that regulation.
Fuck, I'm more than fine, I think it's essential.
Dude Abides
Banned
Dunk#7 said:
Nope. A slight limp that did not substantially limit your ability to walk wouldn't qualify as a disability under the ADA. You're screwed, gimpy.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
But that's what unions are for...Dunk#7 said:
Holy cognitive dissonance batman.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
Dude Abides said:
Okay, that's what I thought you meant.
I kind of want to know this too now.Mike M said:
dave is ok
aztek is ok
I doubt it.Dunk#7 said:
More likely he just says that to scare his workers from unionizing
Dude Abides
Banned
Mike M said:
It's actually Montana. Got my mountain west states confused. It's the only state that doesn't have at-will employment. You have to be fired for just cause.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
I was only asking about what he meant by his statement, I thought I did, and I was right. I'm not speaking about likelihood of success, just the option.teruterubozu said:
Yes, though pretty much all contracts for everything usually have you waive pretty much any rights you might have. Those provisions don't always stand. They can be voided as against public policy (non-competes often encounter these issues with Doctors and other professions)
Interesting. I wonder how much specific cause has to be? .Dude Abides said:
Mortrialus
Banned
Menelaus said:
Oh shit.
SouthernDragon
Member
Balls.
badcrumble
Member
The presence of one group of fucked-up assholes doesn't condemn the overall movement any more than the presence of Paultards or Larouchites does.Menelaus said:
Mortrialus
Banned
badcrumble said:
It's going to look extremely badly on them and deservedly so if they don't openly reject these guys once they're informed of the fact that they're neo nazis.
The American Neo Nazis have supported OWS for a while now.Menelaus said:
Something something Jewish bankers that controls wall street.
p.s.
Personally, I don't think that "who has more racist supporters" is a game that conservatives would want to play.
But it's a stupid game anyway.
For what it's worth, I saw "everyone is accepted but racists" sings in all the occupy rallies I went to.Mortrialus said:
And seriously, I think it's going to be an uphill battle to try and paint a bunch of dirty hippies as Nazis.
Alpha-Bromega
Member
Oh shit, that's my home city guys. I know exactly where and what the deal with that is. These guys are real deal shitheads, the kind you'd expect from lower middle class whites living in Arizona
I'm for militia protecting us symbolically considering what's been happening, but not them, not like this.gif
I'm for militia protecting us symbolically considering what's been happening, but not them, not like this.gif
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
Hmm where I have heard something similar to that from before?badcrumble said:
Dude Abides
Banned
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
The NRA?
Mortrialus
Banned
Chichikov said:
I realize that "Everyone is accepted but racist" views of the movement, but these guys probably walked up to the OWS group and said, "Hey we're a local militia, mind if we protect you symbolically?" and after the Oakland debacle, they thought "Great!" and let them in not knowing they were neonazis and it is going to unfairly bite they group there in the ass. I should have realized something was up when they guy started talking about the silver and gold standard. They OWS people there probably aren't even aware that they're neonazis yet.
I haven't been to the Arizona rallies, but based on the one I've been to, I think you're grossly overestimating the level of central planning and organizations those rallies have.Mortrialus said:
People don't really ask for permission to do things, they just kinda show up and do their thing.
But yeah, Neo Nazis should be removed from pretty much everywhere, and for better reasons that PR.
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