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[venne]

I'm curious to see how the general strike in Oakland goes down today.

 

[Chichikov]

No support of "full-on socialism". Then you speak of a mixed system, a mix of what, if not socialism and capitalism?

I'm talking about a mixed economy, which is what we have right now and what we'll most assuredly continue to have.

 

[Dash27]

I'm talking about a mixed economy, which is what we have right now and what we'll most assuredly continue to have.

I agree and it's a mix of socialism and capitalism. Thus the disagreement is between socialism vs. capitalism. How much of each in the mix.

 

[noah111]

In the very end, one form or another of basic socialism WILL prevail, it just makes too much sense not the be the end result. Whether we have reached that point is the question now though..

 

[aronnov reborn]

I'm curious to see how the general strike in Oakland goes down today.

I don't see how that type of behavior is going to be applauded. they'll hurt more then just the "1%"

 

[Azih]

At the intersection of Broadway and Wall Street, the veterans stopped and observed a moment of silence for Scott Olsen, before passing the financial district's iconic bull statue.

Turning in the direction of the Occupy Wall Street encampment at Liberty Square, the cadence of "Left, left, left, right, left," was paused by a call-back chant of, "Hold your heads and hold them high, the 99 percent is passing by."

Whoah. What chance of this getting play on the news media?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/nov/02/occuply-oakland-general-strike-live

 

[Karma Kramer]

Whoah. What chance of this getting play on the news media?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/nov/02/occuply-oakland-general-strike-live

Cool

 

[kame-sennin]

Whoah. What chance of this getting play on the news media?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/nov/02/occuply-oakland-general-strike-live

On NBC Nightly News, they mentioned that marines were at OWS carrying his picture, but they didn't show the actual march. I checked their website, but could not find video.

OWS has transformed public opinion



more: http://www.salon.com/topic/occupy_wall_street/

Amazing.

 

[jamesinclair]

Amazing how quickly the 3-4 members who enjoyed posting articles that when bolded selectively, made OWS seem like Hitlers army is nowhere to be found when articles like this appear.

Also, its amazing how removing the instigators (riot police) leads to even calmer and more peaceful marches.

In Los Angeles, New York and other cities, demonstrators planned their own rallies in solidarity with the Oakland protesters, who called for Wednesday's "general strike" after the city became a rallying point last week when an Iraq War veteran was injured in clashes with police.

Protesters, city officials and business leaders were optimistic the strike would be peaceful. There was little to no visible police presence all day. At a briefing, officials described the protests as peaceful and orderly and said no arrests had been made.

But wait, we need to treat out war veterans like criminals in the Billionaire's city

In New York, about 100 military veterans marched in uniform and stopped in front of the New York Stock Exchange, standing in loose formation as police officers on scooters separated them from the entrance. On the other side was a lineup of NYPD horses carrying officers with nightsticks.

"We are marching to express support for our brother, (Iraq war veteran) Scott Olsen, who was injured in Oakland," said Jerry Bordeleau, a former Army specialist who served in Iraq through 2009.

The veterans were also angry that returned from war to find few job prospects.

"Wall Street corporations have played a big role in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan," said Bordeleau, now a college student. He said private contractors have reaped big profits in those countries.

http://news.yahoo.com/protesters-target-downtown-oakland-bank-branches-211749695.html

 

[Enron]

Meanwhile in Atlanta

http://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta/city-says-occupy-atlanta-1215791.html

City says Occupy Atlanta cost $451,691

By Jeremiah McWilliams
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

8:30 p.m. Wednesday, November 2, 2011
Atlanta taxpayers will pick up a $451,691 tab for more than two weeks of tug-of-war between the city and Occupy Atlanta protesters, with nearly three-quarters going to police overtime.

The cost estimate, released Wednesday by Mayor Kasim Reed’s office, covers the period between Oct. 7-25, leading up to the day before police officers arrested 52 people for staying beyond Woodruff Park’s 11 p.m. closing time. Prior to that, Reed had extended, and then revoked, an executive order allowing the protesters to stay in the downtown park around the clock.

“That costs a bit more, but I would rather have that expense than be ill-prepared,” Reed said. “At the end of the day, the overall expenditure by the city of Atlanta will compare favorably to other major American cities that are dealing with Occupy protesters.

“I think the appropriate measure for us was, we had no one injured. We also treated people in a way that was humane and respectful.”

Occupy Atlanta leaders could not be reached for comment.

On Thursday, the Rev. Jesse Jackson is scheduled to meet at noon with Occupy Atlanta members, who have since relocated to the Peachtee-Pine shelter, according to Joe Beasley, southern regional director of the Rainbow/ PUSH Coalition. Beasley said the civil rights leader is in town for a conference.

The Woodruff Park arrests in the early morning of Oct. 26 involved a large show of force, with at least 150 officers deployed. Motorcycle patrols, horse patrols, officers in riot gear and a helicopter fly-over were involved.

Reed said sending police into Woodruff Park in full-scale mode was a wiser approach than going with a smaller contingent.

The operation was minuscule compared to the overall budgets of the police ($203 million), fire rescue ($101 million), corrections ($28.8 million), and parks ($31.5 million) departments. But it still raised questions about whether the city was being frugal with taxpayers’ cash.

From the beginning, Occupy Atlanta said the expanded police presence around the park was an unnecessary waste of money.

Yet the tally could increase, with Occupy Atlanta vowing to come back to the park on Saturday. Reed has said everyone is welcome in city parks during normal business hours.

On Monday, Reed said he would be willing to meet with Occupy Atlanta leaders. But the mayor said there will be no more allowances for after-hours protests, signaling that there could be more arrests.

Reed has publicly defended his decision to arrest protesters after a hip-hop concert was held briefly without a permit and what he described as an escalation. Once the situation became tense -- notably the arrival of a man toting an AK-47, apparently in support of the protesters’ right to remain in Woodruff Park -- something had to be done, Reed said.

“I don’t get do-overs with people with AK-47 assault rifles,” Reed said Tuesday night.

Police overtime cost $345,110. Other large expenditures were more than $16,000 for food and supplies for police officers and more than $64,000 for overtime for corrections officers.

The police department’s mobile command center cost $3,600.

“We have the capacity within our budget to pay the costs associated with the Occupy movement,” Reed said.

Staff writer Shelia Poole contributed to this article.

And that was just with 200-300 at the most in the park during the peak of the "Occupation" with no protester/police violence.

 

[theignoramus]

Protesters shout "al shaab yurid isqat wall street"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L47jKtlQj7A

 

[Clevinger]

Meanwhile in Atlanta

Did you have such an obsession with the Tea Party protests as well?

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Amazing how quickly the 3-4 members who enjoyed posting articles that when bolded selectively, made OWS seem like Hitlers army is nowhere to be found when articles like this appear.

Also, its amazing how removing the instigators (riot police) leads to even calmer and more peaceful marches.




But wait, we need to treat out war veterans like criminals in the Billionaire's city


http://news.yahoo.com/protesters-target-downtown-oakland-bank-branches-211749695.html

If you want I'll start posting here again. I've mostly been busy with working and hobbies, but if you really want me to I'll resume full on posting here.

 

[Enron]

Did you have such an obsession with the Tea Party protests as well?

The Tea Party shows up, rallies, prays to glenn beck and then goes away. They generally just litter the airwaves of AM radio.

If you want I'll start posting here again. I've mostly been busy with working and hobbies, but if you really want me to I'll resume full on posting here.

Please do, sir!

 

[Something Wicked]

Did you have such an obsession with the Tea Party protests as well?

Many of those Tea Party protests paid for the permits, security, and insurance.

 

[Lax Mike]

Many of those Tea Party protests paid for the permits, security, and insurance.

A bit ironic that the Tea Party protests would go to the trouble of pleasing "Big Government" by getting permits, while OWS did not.

 

[Chichikov]

Meanwhile in Atlanta

http://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta/city-says-occupy-atlanta-1215791.html



And that was just with 200-300 at the most in the park during the peak of the "Occupation" with no protester/police violence.

So in your mind, the right of the people peaceably to assemble and to petition the government for a redress of grievances is only applicable as long as it doesn't cost any money?
Or is there a certain dollar figure that above it the first amendment can go fuck itself?

 

[remnant]

OWS has transformed public opinion



more: http://www.salon.com/topic/occupy_wall_street/

That is a bold face lie. Income inequality has been a hot subject among policy wonks for years, and always come back to the "mainstream"in time of recessions.

Income inequality was a big factor during the welfare reform of the mid-nineties. It wasn't some taboo.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

Many of those Tea Party protests paid for the permits, security, and insurance.

...with money and logistical support from several established conservative think tanks.

 

[cooljeanius]

So my school (GWU) is going to have its own occupation. Our first GA will be Friday the 11th. I'm on the planning committee for it. It'll be kinda awkward for our school since a lot of the students here are part of the 1%, but on the other hand, our University President has a million-dollar salary while we get stuck with fees and high tuition and stuff, so we might be able to get some people active in it. It probably won't be continuous like other occupations though.

Please do, sir!

Don't encourage him.

 

[makingmusic476]

Went back a few pages, but didn't see this posted. Live stream of the shit going down in Oakland:

http://www.emergencystream.com/video_streams/CA/SanFrancisco5.html

A friend said he saw some guy get mugged and killed on the feed. I have no idea if that's true, however.

 

[empty vessel]

Meanwhile in Atlanta

http://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta/city-says-occupy-atlanta-1215791.html

And that was just with 200-300 at the most in the park during the peak of the "Occupation" with no protester/police violence.

The police are free to leave. Nobody asked them to be there. Those expenditures are on you, friend.

 

[XMonkey]

Don't encourage him.

Manos and Enron are peas in a pod. A very salty pod.

Glad to see such a big turnout in Oakland today.

 

[Alpha-Bromega]

Protesters shout "al shaab yurid isqat wall street"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L47jKtlQj7A

that's pretty cool, it means "fall on your (own) sword or that of the people" ?


it's seriously mind blowing to me that the Arab Spring catalysed the West to action, this is one for the history books

 

[TurtleSnatcher]

So.. I've had no issue with the Occupy stuff. But what was the point of this?

http://news.yahoo.com/occupy-protesters-declare-victory-shipping-port-042315471.html


Closing a shipping port has what to do with what now? Seems to just cost the local economy money and people who work time at their jobs...

 

[noah111]

that's pretty cool, it means "fall on your (own) sword or that of the people" ?


it's seriously mind blowing to me that the Arab Spring catalysed the West to action, this is one for the history books

Yeah, al shaab means 'the people' or 'the citizens', yurid means 'demands' or 'requests' and it usually is followed my 'esqat al nizam' which means the fall of the system/regime or something similar.

Pretty awesome to see and hear this words being shouted in something other than protests for democracy/against the regimes.

 

[WARCOCK]

Amateur attempt of writing about human psychology by a professional economist.

I believe we need to listen to theorists talk about how to move forward to the next stage of humanity, people like Zizek, but economists shold stick to what they know, or don't know looking at the current economic situation lol

yay! Charlie rose handled him like a fucking pro.

http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/11966

Right wingers, please feel free to make fun of his apparent coke habit and accent.

 

[Myansie]

That is a bold face lie. Income inequality has been a hot subject among policy wonks for years, and always come back to the "mainstream"in time of recessions.

Income inequality was a big factor during the welfare reform of the mid-nineties. It wasn't some taboo.

If you're going to call someone a liar you need to back it up. It's so rude to call someone that especially when they've actually provided a reference. You've been pulled up for making false claims before in this thread and by a mod no less. So I'm not prepared to take your word for it.

 

[Rocket Scientist]

Hey guys, a few questions that maybe some on GAF could help with. First of all, these charts that people have linked too in the various economy related threads on GAF are amazing:

http://www.businessinsider.com/income-inequality-charts-2011-10

http://www.businessinsider.com/what-wall-street-protesters-are-so-angry-about-2011-10?op=1

The problem is that these are only for America and I've been trying to find something similar for the Netherlands. Unfortunately there seems to be no sign of charts like these. The most important charts to me are the ''When income grows, who gains?'' ones. Now the thing is that Holland has an institution that has numbers on basically everything and as far as I know it's all public information (on their website you can find everything I think), but nothing like this it seems (for obvious reasons).

My question is, how did they make those charts in the first place? You would have to have information on ALL individual incomes to determine that, no? Then take the lowest 20% of incomes, add them up, and so on. So basically if someone wanted to make these graphs they'd have to have a professional programming background to work the numbers and have access to every single income over the past however many years you want to analyze?

Anyone have an idea on how to get someone in Holland to do these numbers? Journalists, politicians, whatever. I think these graphs are extremely important information, especially in a country like Holland.

Any Dutch Gaffers have any leads or information on this?

 

[alstein]

Hey guys, a few questions that maybe some on GAF could help with. First of all, these charts that people have linked too in the various economy related threads on GAF are amazing:

http://www.businessinsider.com/income-inequality-charts-2011-10

http://www.businessinsider.com/what-wall-street-protesters-are-so-angry-about-2011-10?op=1

The problem is that these are only for America and I've been trying to find something similar for the Netherlands. Unfortunately there seems to be no sign of charts like these. The most important charts to me are the ''When income grows, who gains?'' ones. Now the thing is that Holland has an institution that has numbers on basically everything and as far as I know it's all public information (on their website you can find everything I think), but nothing like this it seems (for obvious reasons).

My question is, how did they make those charts in the first place? You would have to have information on ALL individual incomes to determine that, no? Then take the lowest 20% of incomes, add them up, and so on. So basically if someone wanted to make these graphs they'd have to have a professional programming background to work the numbers and have access to every single income over the past however many years you want to analyze?

Anyone have an idea on how to get someone in Holland to do these numbers? Journalists, politicians, whatever. I think these graphs are extremely important information, especially in a country like Holland.

Any Dutch Gaffers have any leads or information on this?

This stuff largely comes from census data, which is a constitutional requirement in the US.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

The police are free to leave. Nobody asked them to be there. Those expenditures are on you, friend.

Well I guess it would be easier to commit violence then, so I can understand your point of view.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/04/us/protest-in-oakland-turns-violent.html?_r=1&hp

Excerpts

...
A roving group of about 100 mostly young men broke from the main group of protesters in a central plaza and roamed through downtown streets spraying graffiti, burning garbage and breaking windows. The police said some in the group briefly occupied a building on 16th Street near the port.

After warning the group to clear the building, which according to local media reports was vacant, officers in riot gear fired tear gas and bean bag rounds shortly after midnight local time. Dozens of protesters “wielding shields” were arrested, the police said; the building was cleared by around 2 a.m.

The spasm of violence early Thursday morning came after thousands of Occupy Oakland protesters had expanded their anti-Wall Street demonstrations on Wednesday, marching through downtown, picketing banks and swarming the port. By early evening, port authorities said maritime operations there were effectively shut down.

“Maritime area operations will resume when it is safe and secure to do so,” port officials said in a statement, asking marchers to “allow your fellow 99% to get home safe to their families.”

Funniest comment though was from my dad (who works in the area) when I asked him about the OccupyPhilly people, He said the setup and people were"absolutely pathetic" and apparently had no numbers or any type of support. lol

http://news.yahoo.com/occupy-protesters-declare-victory-shipping-port-042315471.html


Closing a shipping port has what to do with what now? Seems to just cost the local economy money and people who work time at their jobs...

Simple, they want to exacerbate tensions and makes matters worse. They want escalation as no one otherwise has been giving them the time of day.

 

[gcubed]

Well I guess it would be easier to commit violence then, so I can understand your point of view.

[im1g]http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2011/11/04/us/4oalkand-image2/4oalkand-image2-popup.jpg[/img]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/04/us/protest-in-oakland-turns-violent.html?_r=1&hp

Excerpts


Funniest comment though was from my dad (who works in the area) when I asked him about the OccupyPhilly people. "absolutely pathetic" and apparently had no numbers or any type of support. lol



Simple, they want to exacerbate tensions and makes matters worse. They want escalation as no one otherwise has been giving them the time of day.

i see them outside my window every day, once the fog burns off i'll take a picture. There is about 40-50 tents. I dont know how big it is in other places. I only get a view of half the area.

 

[empty vessel]

Well I guess it would be easier to commit violence then, so I can understand your point of view.

Not even subtle about implying that "my point of view" is supportive of violence, huh? Pathetic.

I don't believe Americans require police supervision to assemble. I understand that isn't your view. That's fine, but when you tally up the charges, assign it to your tab, not ours.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Not even subtle about implying that "my point of view" is supportive of violence, huh? Pathetic.

If it wasn't true it would be, but that's not the case.

I don't believe Americans require police supervision to assemble. I understand that isn't your view. That's fine, but when you tally up the charges, assign it to your tab, not ours.

Nice try at skirting responsibility.

 

[Lucky Forward]

Electricity cut off to Occupy Baltimore protesters

Electricity was shut off Wednesday evening to outlets in McKeldin Square that protesters have used for the past month to power computers, televisions and kitchen appliances.

Safety concerns were the primary reason that power was cut off, said Ian Brennan, a spokesman for Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake, who has said she will address violations on the plaza while the protest continues on a case-by-case basis.

Inspectors surveyed the area and determined that the large number of items being powered from each outlet created fire hazards, he said. Power strips were plugged into many of the outlets, which are at the base of lampposts.

The protesters, aligned with the Occupy Wall Street movement, have set up tents and remained on the square night and day for the past month without a permit from the city.

The protesters' failure to adhere to permitting procedures also led to the energy being cut, Brennan said.

"It is meant to be used by people who have filed a permit," he said.

Street lights on the square will remain illuminated.

"We were able to turn off the power remotely," Brennan said. "The locations still remain lit for general foot traffic, but there's no power for your PlayStation."

 

[empty vessel]

If it wasn't true it would be, but that's not the case.

What the fuck are you saying?

Nice try at skirting responsibility.

What the fuck are you saying?

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Electricity cut off to Occupy Baltimore protesters

Hmm, that's funny I seem to recall saying exactly this time of thing could have been a problem a month or so ago.

You'd think SquatBaltimore would try some other ways of limiting their need for powering their crap instead of wasting natural resources.

What the fuck are you saying?



What the fuck are you saying?

Keep trying empty, keep trying.

 

[Azih]

Taking a Mass Movement and judging the entirety of it by the inevitable minority fringe is certainly a common tactic Manos but it's still an intellectually dishonest one.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Taking a Mass Movement and judging the entirety of it by the inevitable minority fringe is certainly a common tactic Manos but it's still an intellectually dishonest one.

Are you saying their not the 99%?

 

[akira28]

I expect that's something he's not worried about. The question is how effective is it in painting the entire movement? Is the sum equal to its worst parts? If it's something you're inclined to see as negative anyway(hi manos) then the answer is probably yes.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I expect that's something he's not worried about. The question is how effective is it in painting the entire movement? Is the sum equal to its worst parts? If it's something you're inclined to see as negative anyway(hi manos) then the answer is probably yes.

It's funny to watch the squatters pull a page from the Tea Party again, with the whole "it's only a fringe part and not the whole."

 

[travisbickle]

Funniest comment though was from my dad (who works in the area) when I asked him about the OccupyPhilly people, He said the setup and people were"absolutely pathetic" and apparently had no numbers or any type of support. lol

I don't see the "laugh out loud" funny, I guess it's in the way he tells it?

 

[Azih]

Are you saying their not the 99%?

I'm not saying that. I'm saying taking a Mass Movement and judging the entirety of it by the inevitable minority fringe is intellectually dishonest one

Which is to say that judging the entirety of the 99% protestors by the small minority of idiots within it as you are doing is bullshit.

 

[JohnnyPhatsaqs]

It's funny to watch the squatters pull a page from the Tea Party again, with the whole "it's only a fringe part and not the whole."

What's even worse is that it's acceptable for that to be considered fringe when referring to OWS. With the Tea Party, one asshole is considered representative of the whole thing.

 

[teruterubozu]

It's funny to watch the squatters pull a page from the Tea Party again, with the whole "it's only a fringe part and not the whole."

So that IS part of the Tea Party playbook?

 

[travisbickle]

Are you saying their not the 99%?

You're part of the 99% too, unless you have 1.25 million dollars worth of assets (taking into consideration the $250,000 loan you took)

 

[akira28]

It's funny to watch the squatters pull a page from the Tea Party again, with the whole "it's only a fringe part and not the whole."

its nice when it's actually true innit?

I only bag on the racist scumbags anyway. Those true grit Americans are all ok with me.

 

[empty vessel]

Keep trying empty, keep trying.

Apology excepted, cretin.

 

[BruiserBear]

What's even worse is that it's acceptable for that to be considered fringe when referring to OWS. With the Tea Party, one asshole is considered representative of the whole thing.

It's funny how that works.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

cretin.

It's okay, I forgive you.

So that IS part of the Tea Party playbook?

So I've been told.

What's even worse is that it's acceptable for that to be considered fringe when referring to OWS. With the Tea Party, one asshole is considered representative of the whole thing.

That's the rules apparently.

You're part of the 99% too, unless you have 1.25 million dollars worth of assets

Maybe I don't care for attempts to artificially put me into an us vs them mentality.

(taking into consideration the $250,000 loan you took)

And paying off. It's said you attempt to paint responsible behavior as a problem.