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[Jak140]

glad to see some discourse in here. are we generally agreeing that at the least these movements should culminate in the reinstatement of Glass-Steagal and the removal of corporate citizenship?

I would add to that, that there also need to be strict regulations preventing the intermingling of employees of financial corporations and the Treasury, the Fed, SEC, and other government institutions. Someone should not be able to work at the SEC then skate over to a cushy high paying job at the same banking institutions they were regulating a few years earlier; the kind of moral hazard this opens our government to is obscene.


Neither should the opposite situation be allowed where a bunch of guys from Goldman are appointed to high government positions and have free reign to rig the system in favor of their previous employer and their current investments. The Democrats need to get their feet held to the fire for this shit more than anyone, because until now they have been getting a free pass since they claim to be for the little guy, while the only alternative is a party for the batshit insane.

The people rose up to vote for Obama because they saw the corruption inherent in the current system and one of the first fucking things he does in office is load up his cabinet and advisors with the same corporate and banking shitheels like Geitner and the CEO of GE that put us into this malaise of outsourcing and wall street gambling.

I do genuinely believe that Obama gives a shit about working people, which is a lot more than I can say about most politicians, but he naively let his presidency get hijacked by these fuckers and the first thing he needs to do to gain back the trust of the American people is to kick these bastards out and replace them with people like Elizabeth Warren who actually give a damn about the average American worker. This should be high on the fucking list of OWS demands.

 

[Measley]

Its pretty amazing how far the right has gone in attempting to belittle and demonize this protest. I heard one radio commentator go so far as to say that these protests are anti-semetic in nature.

 

[Karma Kramer]

For anyone claiming the protestors should be thrown in jail because they are a "nuisance" ... how should the protestors or anyone bring justice to those responsible for the "nuisance" that was the 2008 financial crisis? Assuming you would agree the illegal "gambling" that caused global economic hardship is more criminal than noise pollution and public park damage.

 

[jamesinclair]

Its pretty amazing how far the right has gone in attempting to belittle and demonize this protest. I heard one radio commentator go so far as to say that these protests are anti-semetic in nature.

Whats more amazing is that they decided to skip out on the

"Look, the people are unhappy with Obama and his failed policies!" angle

Because they realize his failed policies are the ones the right promotes and wants more of.

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

For anyone claiming the protestors should be thrown in jail because they are a "nuisance" ... how should the protestors or anyone bring justice to those responsible for the "nuisance" that was the 2008 financial crisis? Assuming you would agree the illegal "gambling" that caused global economic hardship is more criminal than noise pollution and public park damage.

This makes no damn sense. Do you know what "nuisance" laws are?

 

[Jenga]

Whats more amazing is that they decided to skip out on the

"Look, the people are unhappy with Obama and his failed policies!" angle

Because they realize his failed policies are the ones the right promotes and wants more of.

totally, the right has been purposely failing politically for the last four years because obama is the dark knight they deserve

 

[Wilsongt]

Its pretty amazing how far the right has gone in attempting to belittle and demonize this protest. I heard one radio commentator go so far as to say that these protests are anti-semetic in nature.

What's even more annoying is that they even go so far as to label this group a mob and are doing their damndest to try to make their Tea party movement look legit compared to this.

 

[Karma Kramer]

Whats more amazing is that they decided to skip out on the

"Look, the people are unhappy with Obama and his failed policies!" angle

Because they realize his failed policies are the ones the right promotes and wants more of.

This is the most telling evidence that the mainstream media is far from liberal. The new york times is not a progressive organization. They don't represent liberal philosophy. They favor Democrats which is also far from liberal.

Okay, you look at the structure of that whole system. What do you expect the news to be like? Well, it’s pretty obvious. Take the New York Times. It’s a corporation and sells a product. The product is audiences. They don’t make money when you buy the newspaper. They are happy to put it on the worldwide web for free. They actually lose money when you buy the newspaper. But the audience is the product. The product is privileged people, just like the people who are writing the newspapers, you know, top-level decision-making people in society. You have to sell a product to a market, and the market is, of course, advertisers (that is, other businesses). Whether it is television or newspapers, or whatever, they are selling audiences. Corporations sell audiences to other corporations. In the case of the elite media, it’s big businesses.

-Noam Chomsky

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

What's even more annoying is that they even go so far as to label this group a mob and are doing their damndest to try to make their Tea party movement look legit compared to this.

Eh. I don't see the coverag of the Occupy movement as any less negative than coverage of the tea party. Which is pretty significant because I can't think of any property destruction that was done by the tea party or blatant violations of any sort of laws.

 

[ezrarh]

The people rose up to vote for Obama because they saw the corruption inherent in the current system and one of the first fucking things he does in office is load up his cabinet and advisors with the same corporate and banking shitheels like Geitner and the CEO of GE that put us into this malaise of outsourcing and wall street gambling.

I do genuinely believe that Obama gives a shit about working people, which is a lot more than I can say about most politicians, but he naively let his presidency get hijacked by these fuckers and the first thing he needs to do to gain back the trust of the American people is to kick these bastards out and replace them with people like Elizabeth Warren who actually give a damn about the average American worker. This should be high on the fucking list of OWS demands.

This. Obama's shine wore off immediately when I saw the kind of people he was hiring for his cabinet. Thing is, I'm not so sure he naively let these guys in. Goldman Sachs donated a lot to his campaign and I'm sure that played a role in him hiring former Goldman goons.

 

[Karma Kramer]

This makes no damn sense. Do you know what "nuisance" laws are?

I don't actually, I put those in quotes because it wasn't clear you understood those laws either...

There's quite a few things actually. I mean its technically assault, probably some sort of nuisance law violation, probably a violation of their permit, etc. Don't act like everything they're doing is just permissible because they're a mob.

I'm more than willing to hear you out, but I think my point still stands.

 

[Something Wicked]

Note to the hippies on the Greenway:

Do not step on flowers dedicated to a Kennedy or Mumbles will get fussy... and you won't like it when that incoherent fat-ass gets fussy.

 

[Alpha-Bromega]

This. Obama's shine wore off immediately when I saw the kind of people he was hiring for his cabinet. Thing is, I'm not so sure he naively let these guys in. Goldman Sachs donated a lot to his campaign and I'm sure that played a role in him hiring former Goldman goons.

yes, it was certainly a disappointment. it's strange the optimism I and I feel many others probably felt on his election, and just the crushing realization that he was a corporacrat like any other.

 

[DrForester]

 

[Measley]

yes, it was certainly a disappointment. it's strange the optimism I and I feel many others probably felt on his election, and just the crushing realization that he was a corporacrat like any other.

People who call Obama is a socialist need to get punched in the face. Corporations and capitalists are up to their eyeballs in profit and wealth.

 

[akira28]

yes, it was certainly a disappointment. it's strange the optimism I and I feel many others probably felt on his election, and just the crushing realization that he was a corporacrat like any other.

I keep feeling like if he could send us a message in morse code blinks or something, that he's being influenced and corralled via the multiple choice questionnaires his staff offer him. I mean, the man is the Executive. It's like he's afraid the Republicans will crucify him with the tree, if he ever were to go out on a serious limb with his power. He always plays to the middle, even if he does do a juke and actually gets something made into a law eventually, it's like having a good average season instead of making a Championship run. We actually WANT him to slam motherfucking bills down their throats they complain about it so much, lets see how they like it when we go on the constant attack instead of constant defense. But he's fucking Captain America when we don't even feel like we have a goddamn America anymore. He's trying to play it straight when he doesn't realize how many enemies he has. We have.

Most of what has been said about Obama has been a smear of paint to color their comment or their viewpoint. Covered in every hue and pigment in existence, everyone wants to see him as something. They even change the perception of what he's actually doing.

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

I keep feeling like if he could send us a message in morse code blinks or something, that he's being influenced and corralled via the multiple choice questionnaires his staff offer him. I mean, the man is the Executive. It's like he's afraid the Republicans will crucify him with the tree, if he ever were to go out on a serious limb with his power. He always plays to the middle, even if he does do a juke and actually gets something made into a law eventually, it's like having a good average season instead of making a Championship run. We actually WANT him to slam motherfucking bills down their throats they complain about it so much, lets see how they like it when we go on the constant attack instead of constant defense. But he's fucking Captain America when we don't even feel like we have a goddamn America anymore. He's trying to play it straight when he doesn't realize how many enemies he has. We have.

1.) This is what second terms are for. 2.) I think a lot of people thought Obama was more liberal than he ever really claimed he was.

 

[bill gonorrhea]

theses guys are trollicious

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=mmWmaHMibJs#!

 

[Dude Abides]

theses guys are trollicious

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=mmWmaHMibJs#!

Virgins.

 

[kame-sennin]

Its pretty amazing how far the right has gone in attempting to belittle and demonize this protest. I heard one radio commentator go so far as to say that these protests are anti-semetic in nature.

They're scared. And they're going to be a lot more scared when the protesters march uptown to where they live. The wealthy people in this country are not used to confrontation, and they're not known for their bravery either. I hope their fear doesn't lead to violence being committed by the police on their behalf.

 

[the chris]

I love Neil Gaiman.

 

[Jak140]

This. Obama's shine wore off immediately when I saw the kind of people he was hiring for his cabinet. Thing is, I'm not so sure he naively let these guys in. Goldman Sachs donated a lot to his campaign and I'm sure that played a role in him hiring former Goldman goons.

I don't disagree, except I mean naive in the sense that I think he bought the line that these guys would do and recommend things that would benefit the country as a whole rather than just their friends and their own pocketbooks.

2.) I think a lot of people thought Obama was more liberal than he ever really claimed he was.

This is true, but I think many complaints against his administration are not political, but ethical. For instance, I think even the Tea Party would agree with most of the complaints I wrote above about corporate influence leading to government corruption. Honestly, this applies to both parties, but extra scrutiny is on Obama because he campaigned against it and because of the state of the country when he came into office.

 

[ErasureAcer]

Spent 4 days and nights at OccupyMN...am taking 2 days off...will be back Thursday for another extended stay(5-6 days). Crowds seem pretty good but dwindling. I'd estimate 4,000-5,000 people have come through in the first 4 days.

Anyhow...Marches are the most fun, as well as talking to people there. Worst part is probably loneliness for lack of a better word. People know me and I know them...I really haven't made any friends or anything though...while I see others in groups/cliques...kinda disappointing.

People staying over night is anywhere from 60-100 depending on the day.

 

[Bloodbeard]

OccupyGaf, I need your help.

I need videos of "celebrities"and scholars (ie. Naomi Klein, Cornell West, etc.) speaking at Occupywallstreet events. Who all has addressed the general assembly? video link?

 

[akira28]

Spent 4 days and nights at OccupyMN...am taking 2 days off...will be back Thursday for another extended stay(5-6 days). Crowds seem pretty good but dwindling. I'd estimate 4,000-5,000 people have come through in the first 4 days.

Anyhow...Marches are the most fun, as well as talking to people there. Worst part is probably loneliness for lack of a better word. People know me and I know them...I really haven't made any friends or anything though...while I see others in groups/cliques...kinda disappointing.

People staying over night is anywhere from 60-100 depending on the day.

Hey good on you. I hear that it takes time to get accepted, like anything, but that it happens eventually once someone breaks the ice. Some of those people really do bring their friends and have their little group things and that can be hard to break into. Do you know anyone who might want to go down with you for a day?

 

[akira28]

OccupyGaf, I need your help.

I need videos of "celebrities"and scholars (ie. Naomi Klein, Cornell West, etc.) speaking at Occupywallstreet events. Who all has addressed the general assembly? video link?

Is THIS what you search for?
When you write your report, post a summary here, we'd like to read it.

 

[Bloodbeard]

Is THIS what you search for?
When you write your report, post a summary here, we'd like to read it.

Of course, I tried googling that and didn't find who I was looking for. He has an eastern european name, is a political philosopher and economist. He spoke a couple days ago. Can't remember his name.

I'm compiling something like the OP for a professor of mine today who said the movement was divisive and is the hippie/liberal answer to the tea party. I'm trying to convince him that the occupy movement is not a movement within the political system but a general call for a paradigm shift in our politics and a re-evaluation of the relationship between our politics and our financial institutions.

 

[magicstop]

Slavoj Zizek. I posted about it yesterday, and it's on the front page of http://occupywallst.org
I'll edit the OP to add him and a few others that I can find.

 

[akira28]

Of course, I tried googling that and didn't find who I was looking for. He has an eastern european name, is a political philosopher and economist. He spoke a couple days ago. Can't remember his name.

I'm compiling something like the OP for a professor of mine today who said the movement was divisive and is the hippie/liberal answer to the tea party. I'm trying to convince him that the occupy movement is not a movement within the political system but a general call for a paradigm shift in our politics and a re-evaluation of the relationship between our politics and our financial institutions.

Hrm...You don't mean Noam Chomsky do you? The Observer link on that Google search I sent you has a bunch of notable speaker vids.

edit: never mind, your guy's name is way more EE than mine.

this is democracy in action, interestingly enough. People in the streets and classrooms talking. What's your guess at your teacher's political affiliation?

 

[Bloodbeard]

Slavoj Zizek. I posted about it yesterday, and it's on the front page of http://occupywallst.org
I'll edit the OP to add him and a few others that I can find.

Boom, thanks a lot. I'm creating a list of articles I thought we good. I'll post them when I've finished and you can include them in the OP if you'd like.

 

[magicstop]

Boom, thanks a lot. I'm creating a list of articles I thought we good. I'll post them when I've finished and you can include them in the OP if you'd like.

I'd really appreciate that. I've been swamped in the last two days with Occupy Durham and Occupy Chapel Hill. Both are trying to get things together for occupations beginning this weekend. There's a ton of work to be done, and I just haven't had as much time to gather resources for this thread. Thanks!

Also, neat video on the NYGCA website:
http://vimeo.com/30241489

"We the People Have Found Our Voice"

 

[Bloodbeard]

nvm

 

[magicstop]

Wow! Looking at the NYGCA's website, they are doing some cool stuff like hosting educational forums. I saw the following happening today at 10:00am:

For all of you moaning about how the Occupy people are all ignorant, etc., not only is that not the case, but organized educational forums are seeking to further prove it wrong It's nice to see this community really taking care of itself, and I hope all of the movements grow to this degree of sustainability, independence, etc.

 

[remnant]

Wow! Looking at the NYGCA's website, they are doing some cool stuff like hosting educational forums. I saw the following happening today at 10:00am:

For all of you moaning about how the Occupy people are all ignorant, etc., not only is that not the case, but organized educational forums are seeking to further prove it wrong It's nice to see this community really taking care of itself, and I hope all of the movements grow to this degree of sustainability, independence, etc.

Are we seriously going to pretend that is a balanced and realistic look at finance and economic history around the world?

Edit: I mean a crash course? Really?

 

[bjb]

I'm highly anticipating the trainwreck of protesting outside of rich people's lawns, while said wealthy individuals sit inside and have their paid assistants laugh at them.

 

[Jak140]

Are we seriously going to pretend that is a balanced and realistic look at finance and economic history around the world?

Edit: I mean a crash course? Really?

What a pointless reply. Try waiting to make an argument addressing what is actually said rather than what you imagine will be said.

 

[Alucrid]

What a pointless reply. Try waiting to make an argument addressing what is actually said rather than what you imagine will be said.

Considering that people with Ph.Ds in Economics have a hard enough time trying to understand the system, yeah, I'd say an hour and a half crash course isn't going to do much aside from give them talking points.

 

[magicstop]

Considering that people with Ph.Ds in Economics have a hard enough time trying to understand the system, yeah, I'd say an hour and a half crash course isn't going to do much aside from give them talking points.

So wait . . . we can only teach people things if we are doing it as a Doctorate program? Or we just shouldn't talk about things at all because even people with doctorate degrees get confused? Wow.
Makes all of us BA, BS, and Master's holders look like idiots I suppose. In truth, I suspect that an hour and a half is an adequate amount of time for sharing and exploring the basics of the stock exchange system.

Also, remnant is still trolling, so don't get excited, lol. Next will be the "So disagreeing = trolling?" in 3 . . . 2 . . . I mean, check it out, he's evidently got a sneak peek at the agenda for the forum:

Waiting for what? A YouTube video full of misinformation and propaganda about economic history being passed off as a legit class.

Care to give us specifics, remy? No? Speculate on, but stop presenting it as done and done.

I'm not sure about the Millionaire March, either, but there's been talk of doing it here as well. I'm not against it, but I'm not really excited about it either. I'd want to hear more about it before I went, I suppose.

 

[remnant]

What a pointless reply. Try waiting to make an argument addressing what is actually said rather than what you imagine will be said.

Waiting for what? A YouTube video full of misinformation and propaganda about economic history being passed off as a legit class.

Edit: and here is magicstop crying becuase I refuse to listen to his bullshit. You poor soul.

 

[Jak140]

Considering that people with Ph.Ds in Economics have a hard enough time trying to understand the system, yeah, I'd say an hour and a half crash course isn't going to do much aside from give them talking points.

You're arguing against a strawman. You don't know what will be said and it's called "basics" for a reason. It is possible to give someone an introductory understanding of a subject without lying to or misleading them or expecting that they need to have complete knowledge of every complex facet of it.

 

[Jak140]

Waiting for what? A YouTube video full of misinformation and propaganda about economic history being passed off as a legit class.

Then what the fuck is your point? You can’t just say something is full of misinformation and propaganda and expect to be taken seriously. You have to actually prove your contention. Otherwise you are just trolling.

 

[remnant]

Then what the fuck is your point? You can’t just say something is full of misinformation and propaganda and expect to be taken seriously. You have to actually prove your contention. Otherwise you are just trolling.

My fucking point is this is no proof that these protestors understand what they are protesting. Wall St is a small cog in a system that can't be understood by taking one crash course. Probably a heavily biased one at that looking at its description.

 

[Enron]

For all of you moaning about how the Occupy people are all ignorant, etc., not only is that not the case, but organized educational forums are seeking to further prove it wrong It's nice to see this community really taking care of itself, and I hope all of the movements grow to this degree of sustainability, independence, etc.

To be fair, do you think the majority of the Occupy crowd has any sort of understanding of the financial system beyond "They screwed us"? I don't. Shit, normal office people and people that work closer to the industry many times dont even have that understanding. (Personal experience)

 

[Karma Kramer]

My fucking point is this is no proof that these protestors understand what they are protesting. Wall St is a small cog in a system that can't be understood by taking one crash course. Probably a heavily biased one at that looking at its description.

Remnant spell out the solutions then. What is the solution, sir expert?

edit: And Enron answer my damn question lol or you will be forever a troll in my mind.

 

[magicstop]

Gonna take a quick respite from "crying" to post up the following article.

World intrigued by OWS

Really interesting article, with a couple of quotes worth posting below:

Inspired by the momentum of the U.S. movement, which started small but is now part of U.S. political debate, activists in London will gather to protest outside the London Stock Exchange on October 15 on the same day that Spanish groups will mass on Madrid's Puerta del Sol square in solidarity.

Chinese newspapers splashed news about Occupy Wall Street with editorials blaming the U.S. political system and denouncing the Western media for playing down the protests.

In Cairo, Ahmed Maher, a founder and leading member of Egypt's April 6 Youth Movement which helped to topple autocrat Hosni Mubarak, said it was in contact with several groups organising the anti-Wall Street demonstrations.

"But perhaps the closest historical parallel is with the Populist movement of the 1890s, which, like Occupy Wall Street, was a broad, economics-driven revolt that targeted a predatory class of corporate capitalists - the robber barons of the Gilded Age," the newspaper said.

And FWIW:

British commentators were not so convinced by such an apocalyptic vision. Giles Whittell in the London Times, highlighting the movement's lack of a coherent agenda, came to the conclusion in a headline that it was: "Passionate but Pointless."

An interesting read, for certain.

To be fair, do you think the majority of the Occupy crowd has any sort of understanding of the financial system beyond "They screwed us"? I don't. Shit, normal office people and people that work closer to the industry many times dont even have that understanding. (Personal experience)

I think it's a mixed bag. In my personal experience, I have encountered people at the Occupy movements who have an incredible knowledge about the US's financial system. I have also encountered people that are simply mad because they recognize that the bankers who played a large role in helping screw the economy also got huge bailouts and bonuses made up of tax payer money, THEIR money, and that doesn't sit right by them.

I think it's ultimately wrong to say that the OWS or any Occupy people are all entirely one thing or another. I also think that it's not important that they all be MBA's, MFA's, have doctorates in economics, etc. People are smart enough to know what it looks like to get screwed, and they are finally pipping up about it.
About damn time!

Yes, because that's exactly what I said.

Fair enough, then

 

[Alucrid]

So wait . . . we can only teach people things if we are doing it as a Doctorate program? Or we just shouldn't talk about things at all because even people with doctorate degrees get confused? Wow.
Makes all of us BA, BS, and Master's holders look like idiots I suppose. In truth, I suspect that an hour and a half is an adequate amount of time for sharing and exploring the basics of the stock exchange system.

Also, remnant is still trolling, so don't get excited, lol. Next will be the "So disagreeing = trolling?" in 3 . . . 2 . . . I mean, check it out, he's evidently got a sneak peek at the agenda for the forum:

Care to give us specifics, remy? No? Speculate on, but stop presenting it as done and done.

I'm not sure about the Millionaire March, either, but there's been talk of doing it here as well. I'm not against it, but I'm not really excited about it either. I'd want to hear more about it before I went, I suppose.

Yes, because that's exactly what I said.

Remnant spell out the solutions then. What is the solution, sir expert?

edit: And Enron answer my damn question lol or you will be forever a troll in my mind.

Well. Housing is due for a boom, invest in that and all your financial woes shall be gone.

 

[Jak140]

To be fair, do you think the majority of the Occupy crowd has any sort of understanding of the financial system beyond "They screwed us"? I don't. Shit, normal office people and people that work closer to the industry don't always have that understanding.

Honestly, most people don't, which is ex-fucking-xactly why good-faith financial regulation is needed. If the average man can't understand how the financial system is screwing him, how is he supposed to be protected from it unless there are competent people in government performing that job? Warren makes a good analogy with this regarding toasters: Governments have standards to keep toasters from being built poorly and blowing up because the average American is not an electrician, so why the hell should we not have the same kind of regulations for the financial industry?

 

[UltimaPooh]

Waiting for what? A YouTube video full of misinformation and propaganda about economic history being passed off as a legit class.

Edit: and here is magicstop crying becuase I refuse to listen to his bullshit. You poor soul.

It's an Open Forum not a class. There is no grade and there are no credits.

 

[Alucrid]

Honestly, most people don't, which ex-fucking-xactly why good-faith financial regulation is needed. If the average man can't understand how the financial sytem is screwing him, how is he supposed to be protected from it unless there are competent people in government performing that job? Warren makes a good analogy with this regarding toasters: Governements have standards to keep toasters from being built poorly and blowing up because the average American is not an electrician, so why the hell should we not have the same kind of regulations for the financial industry?

We should. So call me when these people get that accomplished. I'm all for the movement, just not how they're doing it.

 

[Muffdraul]

To be fair, do you think the majority of the Occupy crowd has any sort of understanding of the financial system beyond "They screwed us"? I don't. Shit, normal office people and people that work closer to the industry many times dont even have that understanding. (Personal experience)

All anyone needs to do is sit down and watch Inside Job, the documentary about the 2008 economic meltdown. It did an excellent job of explaining the whole thing in terms any average schmoe can understand. And the thing is, after I watched it and the credits were rolling, I totally wanted something like OWS to happen.

If anything, I think if everyone at the protests really understood the situation... they'd be a lot more violent.