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"OCCUPY WALL STREET"

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milkyjay20 said:
this country, as well as the rest of the world, is going down the toilet. for you to look away is bad enough, but to then make fun of people who are trying to change things, that's what makes you cowards.
Damn right. More people should have made fun of the Tea Party when they tried to change things. Their candidates should have been laughed out of the house, and they should have voted in people who would change things for the better.

The belief that we should support those who herald change, no matter how dumb their message may be, is ridiculous.

The people walking around with signs that say 'abolish capitalism' and other such nonsense are no better than the tea partiers. Well, they are better in one way. At least they are vastly less effective at spreading their overly simplistic ideas.


hukasmokincaterpillar said:
Did somebody say capitalism?

Wall Street is now in the business of decoupling liquidity from value. You can call that capitalism if you like. Money is a social construct afterall.

Related, Ted Talk by Kevin Slavin.
How Algorithms Rule Our World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDaFwnOiKVE

Hipsters!
I think a relatively large fixed time step on trades might be a good idea. The main supposed benefit of high-speed trading, liquidity, seems to disappear right when you need it the most.
 
Wazzim said:
CNN and Fox News don't say anything about the protests atm but even the Dutch national channel did and you some of you still think that protest isn't needed? It's so obvious now, bet if this was Iran the news channels would be all over it. It's structural censoring, undemocratic.

FOX News' response would not be news coverage but counter-propaganda. It's misguided to conceive of them as a responsible actor in a meaningful public sphere.

And the protest is itself a competition of ideologies. Representing it as that would be taken as satire or scorn, and representing it as possessed of a general and cohesive message would be to pay it too great a compliment.
 
Wazzim said:
CNN and Fox News don't say anything about the protests atm but even the Dutch national channel did and you some of you still think that protest isn't needed? It's so obvious now, bet if this was Iran the news channels would be all over it. It's structural censoring, undemocratic.
What would you even talk about on a segment for this protest?

I'm genuinely curious, what is the Dutch national channel saying about this protest?
 
Slavik81 said:
Damn right. More people should have made fun of the Tea Party when they tried to change things. Their candidates should have been laughed out of the house, and they should have voted in people who would change things for the better.

The belief that we should support those who herald change, no matter how dumb their message may be, is ridiculous.

The people walking around with signs that say 'abolish capitalism' and other such nonsense are no better than the tea partiers. Well, they are better in one way. At least they are vastly less effective at spreading their overly simplistic ideas.

you're not going to get complex ideas and a unified message out of a mass protest.

the overall message was "wall street is bad," despite a few silly signs and lethargic attitude. and they are bad, so i support this. the big banks (goldman sachs, jp morgan etc.) are responsible for much of this country's suffering. we're not going to convert to communism over a protest, but if this protest had been more effective, there might've been a few prosecutions.

i supported the tea party when they first started, when it was simply a tax revolt. i stopped when sarah palin and friends entered the picture. that's when they stopped being a grassroots protest and transformed into yet another platform for the republicans. their message was clear: we're paying too much for the government's spending. if they had stuck to their guns and had said no to the republicans, the tea party would have untold power. they just might still, if a republican president gets in and *surprise* spending stays up. but i'm not holding my breath on that one.
 
milkyjay20 said:
their message was clear: we're paying too much for the government's spending. if they had stuck to their guns and had said no to the republicans, the tea party would have untold power. they just might still, if a republican president gets in and *surprise* spending stays up. but i'm not holding my breath on that one.
This is kind of the problem I think. The problem with the US government is definitely not the amount of money they're spending. The problem is that they're spending it on the wrong things. You will only screw yourself by cutting government funding. It's a stupid cause anyway, the fuck do you think to accomplish by reducing funding? How will it get better? They're so horrible at paying for what they need to, they're going to be doing the same when you give them less. There will be less money available for the parts that actually need it now.
 
msv said:
This is kind of the problem I think. The problem with the US government is definitely not the amount of money they're spending. The problem is that they're spending it on the wrong things. You will only screw yourself by cutting government funding. It's a stupid cause anyway, the fuck do you think to accomplish by reducing funding? How will it get better? They're so horrible at paying for what they need to, they're going to be doing the same when you give them less. There will be less money available for the parts that actually need it now.

i agree with you, but things like the revolving door bailout (which was numbered around 24 trillion and that was last year), the fifty wars, a few rounds of the fed's "quantitative easing," and propping up gigantic zombie banks is going to hurt us in the long run.

the tea party then veered off into wanting to cut social programs, so yeah, republican platform.
 
Oh lovely. This is the last thing protesters could want to show up. It helps kill legitimacy like the plague when someone says nonsense like this and get air time (due to celeb status).

http://www.hiphopdx.com/index/news/...treet-protest-states-view-on-new-world-order/

This past weekend, several thousand American demonstrators gathered around New York City's Financial District to protest what they feel is Wall Street's stronghold on U.S. government and society. Although the protest, called "Occupy Wall Street," has overtly demanded higher taxes for corporations and criticizes Capitalism, there is also an underlying sentiment of a call for truth.

Lupe Fiasco attended the wide scale protest demanding the truth, specifically behind the events of 9/11 and subsequent wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

"Millions of people have died behind that," Lupe told media outlet We Are Change. "For the sake of what? For the price of what? What really happened to cause millions and millions of people to die? If it was just a terrorist attack, then so be it. Let that be known. Let that be out and vetted so the public can see it. And I think [the U.S.] would get more support. I think you would get more support from Muslim countries if it was just a more open and honest kind of thing instead of this kind of cloudy, mysterious, behind-the-scenes kind of operation."

He added that those who question too much, including Occupy Wall Street's demonstrators, are perceived as "crazy" by the rest of society. But he asserted that they were normal "firefighters, demolition experts, engineers," who question the existence and power of influential groups, including the New World Order.


"I think the New World Order is something that is deliberate and it's in the public. I do think that there are some parts of it that are done in secret simply because it is a private kind of situation with private individuals who hold private stake in certain parts of the world…you don't invite everybody to dinner at your house. I don't think that they're as nefarious as people make them out to be. I think it's the stuff that we silently allow [them to do]. I think that we're complicit."

Lupe explained that although America is a society dependent on consumption, sometimes that consumption cannot be averted. "We're a society based on consumerism…We blur our own lines between what we need and what we want. There could be somebody who lives in Harlem who works [on Wall Street] and you could [tell him], 'Hey, just take a bike.' And [he would say], 'Yo my man, I can't take a bike every day. I need a car.' But when you get in that car, you have to put fuel in that car, so you're financing Exxon Mobile, you're financing Ford or whatever car company it is. You're paying the city because you have to pay for registration, you have to pay taxes [on that car]. So you're financing the system just so you can say, 'Hey, I don't want to bike to work every single day because I'm gonna be tired at the end of the day.'

"For me it's about critical thinking and being critical about everything that's going on around you."

The Occupy Wall Street demonstrators have completed four days of protests. As of today, five activists have been arrested by New York City police.
 
Manos, i've got to tip my hat to you, man.

you have been absolutely ruthless, relentless, tireless in this thread. you've got like ten posts per page. i don't agree with a word of what you've typed but goddamn man, you sure do hate those hippies/bums/unhappy people. you're a complete asshole but you've got passion. i'll buy you a drink any time.
 
coldvein said:
Manos, i've got to tip my hat to you, man.

you have been absolutely ruthless, relentless, tireless in this thread. you've got like ten posts per page. i don't agree with a word of what you've typed but goddamn man, you sure do hate those hippies/bums/unhappy people. you're a complete asshole but you've got passion. i'll buy you a drink any time.

He's got the qualities of an OCD autistic, that's nothing to be proud of.
 
Riddick said:
He's got the qualities of an OCD autistic, that's nothing to be proud of.

i was trying to keep my post positive. i know that not everyone likes to do that, especially an OCD autistic, but.. that's just my style.
 
Huh, just saw One Liberty Plaza sign in one of these pictures. The company I work for has a floor on One Liberty -- I've been there a couple of times.

It's too bad that I don't live there anymore. I should ask some folks who still work there if the protests are disrupting their commute.
 
Wazzim said:
Land of the FREE! But hey, they're dumb hippies and this is what they deserve right?

Um I didn't see anything wrong with those arrests. They violated nuisance laws. They got arrested. I don't see any "brutality" there. If I'm an NYPD official I'd be glad to see video of my officers where they handle themselves professionally.

I know I said I'd stay away, but I actually kind of feel bad for the cops there being accused of doing something wrong. The guy is trying to get away from the cop when he tries to arrest him.
 
Bluth said:
One dude breaks the law so they arrest him, then let the rest keep protesting? I don't see the problem.
Also there is a bizarre cut at around 28 to 29 seconds in. It looks like footage is missing. Why would LibertyRevPlaza edit that out?

brucewaynegretzky said:
Um I didn't see anything wrong with those arrests. They violated nuisance laws. They got arrested. I don't see any "brutality" there. If I'm an NYPD official I'd be glad to see video of my officers where they handle themselves professionally.

I know I said I'd stay away, but I actually kind of feel bad for the cops there being accused of doing something wrong. The guy is trying to get away from the cop when he tries to arrest him.

Using an amplified sound device without a permit is a violation of New York City Administrative Code Title 10 §10–108.

Thanks to the one sane person on the Youtube comments!
 
brucewaynegretzky said:
Um I didn't see anything wrong with those arrests. They violated nuisance laws. They got arrested. I don't see any "brutality" there. If I'm an NYPD official I'd be glad to see video of my officers where they handle themselves professionally.

I know I said I'd stay away, but I actually kind of feel bad for the cops there being accused of doing something wrong. The guy is trying to get away from the cop when he tries to arrest him.
Yeah and if they do that elsewhere in the world because of nuisance laws then everybody gets angry and all. I don't blame the cops, I blame the hypocrites giving them these orders.
 
Wazzim said:
CNN and Fox News don't say anything about the protests atm but even the Dutch national channel did and you some of you still think that protest isn't needed? It's so obvious now, bet if this was Iran the news channels would be all over it. It's structural censoring, undemocratic.

There's an interest in Europe about the possibility of American protests. The BBC actually ran a feature on protests in America this week but instead cited the union protests in Wisconsin from earlier in the year as more important benchmarks. And for reference, the Canadian media barely covered the occupy wall street thing as well as well, if at all. I'm fairly plugged in to the left-leaning CBC public broadcaster and they haven't mentioned it, not even on their talk-ish radio shows, and if they did, it must have been brief. So the explanation is more cultural than the stereotypical American media sucks angle.

That said, the US media can be blamed here for not mentioning this, but it's fairly obvious as well the protest itself has no plurality of support, and that European interest in this story is largely about penis size comparison; mainly wondering about how translatable their experience is to the American experience, which, at least according to some experts cited on the BBC article, is not very translatable. Not that Americans aren't suffering from the effects of the recession, but they just react and respond to it differently.

You'll need a more prolonged and deeper recession to see mass protests of the sort seen in Europe.
 
Wazzim said:
Yeah and if they do that elsewhere in the world because of nuisance laws then everybody gets angry and all. I don't blame the cops, I blame the hypocrites giving them these orders.

Umm if they are arrested in a manner consistent with what was shown there no one does.

Deku said:
There's an interest in Europe about the possibility of American protests. The BBC actually ran a feature on protests in America this week but instead cited the union protests in Wisconsin instead as more important benchmarks. And for reference, the Canadian media barely covered it as well, if at all. I'm fairly plugged in to the left-leaning CBC public broadcaster and they haven't mentioned it, not even on their talk-ish radio shows. So the explanation is more cultural than the stereotypical American media sucks angle.

That said, the US media can be blamed here for not mentioning this, but it's fairly obvious as well the protest itself has no plurality of support, and that European interest in this story is largely about penis size comparison; mainly wondering about how translatable their experience is to the American experience, which, at least according to some experts cited on the BBC article, is not very translatable. Not that Americans aren't suffering from the effects of the recession, but they just react and respond to it differently.

You'll need a more prolonged and deeper recession to see mass protests of the sort seen in Europe.

Russia Today has been! lol

OccupyWallStreet.org said:
Police continued pressuring protesters with extralegal tactics, saying that a protester on a bullhorn was breaking a law. The protester refused to cease exercising his first amendment rights and was also arrested. Then the police began to indiscriminately attempt to arrest protesters, many of them unsheathed their batons, in spite of the fact that the protest remained peaceful.

Man what a joke. Someone there should actually advise them on the law.
http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/nycode/ADC/10/1/10-108
 
Wazzim said:
Yeah and if they do that elsewhere in the world because of nuisance laws then everybody gets angry and all. I don't blame the cops, I blame the hypocrites giving them these orders.

People get angry when police strongarm people or use offensive tactics. The police arrested ONE person here. The guy breaking the law. You're not giving a useful analogy. If they were arresting the people there without megaphones I agree that you'd have a valid complaint. Also, if they had gotten a permit this wouldn't be a problem. Again this all falls on the inadequacies of the organizers.
 
brucewaynegretzky said:
People get angry when police strongarm people or use offensive tactics. The police arrested ONE person here. The guy breaking the law. You're not giving a useful analogy. If they were arresting the people there without megaphones I agree that you'd have a valid complaint. Also, if they had gotten a permit this wouldn't be a problem. Again this all falls on the inadequacies of the organizers.
There are no real organizers anyway though. I have to agree with the statement that the police did this professionally, it was a clean and calm arrest from what I have seen. Props to the protesters too for not throwing beer like in London.
 
Qwomo said:
Show up to protest about social and economic inequities

with iPad
does buying an iPad automatically disqualify someone from being against social and economic injustice?

what if I have a GPS? Does your shitty critique still apply and I cannot be anti-war then?
 
Joe said:
does buying an iPad automatically disqualify someone from being against social and economic injustice?

what if I have a GPS? Does your shitty critique still apply and I cannot be anti-war then?
You can't pretend you're being horribly economically oppressed if you show up with the latest brand name gadgets and clothes.
 
Slavik81 said:
I think a relatively large fixed time step on trades might be a good idea. The main supposed benefit of high-speed trading, liquidity, seems to disappear right when you need it the most.
the benefits are making money by taking advantage of arbitrage...the post is on point, these days trading is dependant on mathematical abstractions of mass trading behavior, not actual analyses based on corporate finances. and since all big banks have top tier programmers, quants and computers...i am not even sure where the advantage lays.
 
Qwomo said:
You can't pretend you're being horribly economically oppressed if you show up with the latest brand name gadgets and clothes.

What can you claim? And can you claim something in the name of others?
 
Qwomo said:
You can't pretend you're being horribly economically oppressed if you show up with the latest brand name gadgets and clothes.
"horribly economically oppressed"...are those your words or theirs? and what about protesting and raising awareness for others?
 
Qwomo said:
You can't pretend you're being horribly economically oppressed if you show up with the latest brand name gadgets and clothes.

So because I can afford an iPad, necessarily others are not being economically oppressed? Or because I choose to buy an iPad, I automatically lose my ability to speak out about conditions that I disagree with, even if I do not experience them directly?
Sounds like it's boiling down to the "hypocrite" argument, which is always absurd and never actually amounts to making a valid point or claim.
 
magicstop said:
So because I can afford an iPad, necessarily others are not being economically oppressed?

For the record, even those who can afford iPads are economically oppressed. If you look at the data, anybody not in the top 5% of income earners has seen significant losses in yearly income as a result of rising inequality over the last three decades. Even people who aren't struggling economically can be economic losers who are worse off than they should be because of an exceedingly powerful and wealthy tiny economic elite.
 
empty vessel said:
For the record, even those who can afford iPads are economically oppressed. If you look at the data, anybody not in the top 5% of income earners has seen significant losses in yearly income as a result of rising inequality over the last three decades. Even people who aren't struggling economically can be economic losers who are worse off than they should be because of an exceedingly powerful and wealthy tiny economic elite.
Then maybe they shouldn't be buying an iPad.
 
Salvor.Hardin said:
I think empty vessel has an ipad.
It did sound a lot like rationalization.

I have to say it's kind of funny how so many people there seem to have iOS products. You think an open source OS would be more favored by "revolutionaries", but I guess not.
 
pictures of this Occupy Wall Street seems lame as hell, we had more people at Rutgers back in the day during the great american sleep out.
 
Technosteve said:
pictures of this Occupy Wall Street seems lame as hell, we had more people at Rutgers back in the day during the great american sleep out.
Is that the event that raised money for the homeless? People sleeping outside and getting sponsors, sort of like a charity walk?
 
harriet the spy said:
For someone who studies rhetoric, you surely don't seem to have any skill in it. Is the word 'sex workers' inherently hilarious somehow? Are sex workers supposed to support capitalism?
yes, because in a capitalist system they'd have the freedom to sell their wares without the interference of a moralistic nanny state that doesn't let them control their own bodies.
 
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
Is that the event that raised money for the homeless? People sleeping outside and getting sponsors, sort of like a charity walk?


Hmmm i'm not sure, i thought they were protesting for the sake of protesting. They could of been doing it for charity, I was expecting something to the level of John Stewart's Rally for sanity. Or more organized effort, like sit ins or human chains infront of all the wall street banks.
 
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
Then maybe they shouldn't be buying an iPad.

That's a weird thing to say. Because somebody has been economically exploited or has suffered an economic loss at the hands of another, they "shouldn't be buying an iPad"? Bizarre reasoning.

Salvor.Hardin said:
I think empty vessel has an ipad.

He hasn't. Although he does perfectly well for himself. And still has suffered economic loss at the hands of the highest one percent of income earners.
 
elrechazao said:
yes, because in a capitalist system they'd have the freedom to sell their wares without the interference of a moralistic nanny state that doesn't let them control their own bodies.

And yet, it is illegal in the US, while legal in the netherlands (and de facto legal in many places in europe), a super nanny state compared to the US. But, yes, I am sure that it's perfectly logical for sex workers to support wall street and desire no safety net.
 
elrechazao said:
yes, because in a capitalist system they'd have the freedom to sell their wares without the interference of a moralistic nanny state that doesn't let them control their own bodies.

That isn't capitalism. Capitalism is a system in which people's labor is sold to people who own capital (the means of production) in order to obtain subsistence. A prostitute is a socialist, unless she is under somebody else's control. And if I were a prostitute, I'd object to capitalism too.
 
i wish the naysayers had some actual reasons to object to what people are doing over there right now other than "but ipad" and mel brooks quotes.
 
Joe said:
i wish the naysayers had some actual reasons to object to what people are doing over there right now other than "but ipad" and mel brooks quotes.
Numerous people have pointed out the these demonstrators are poorly organized with no discipline (see badcrumbles post), common sense (we don't need a permit), lack any real cohesive message, understanding of many issues, and inducing ridicule and marginalization of liberal views by allowing them to be associated with people displaying monumentally stupid slogans and signs like the leftists Tea Party would have,
 
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
Numerous people have pointed out the these demonstrators are poorly organized with no discipline (see badcrumbles post), common sense (we don't need a permit), lack any real cohesive message, understanding of many issues, and inducing ridicule and marginalization of liberal views by allowing them to be associated with people displaying monumentally stupid slogans and signs like the leftists Tea Party would have,
So you're basically lowering yourself to their level(or lower)? Makes perfect sense.
 
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