01011001
Banned
well then I'm looking forward to getting a 6ghz router maybe some day, but here and now 10ms of additional lag in best case scenarios is still noticeable and especially when even the link cable already has noticeable lag
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well then I'm looking forward to getting a 6ghz router maybe some day, but here and now 10ms of additional lag in best case scenarios is still noticeable and especially when even the link cable already has noticeable lag
Tygeezy
Member
10 ms isn’t best case scenario. 6 ms is the best case scenario. Virtual desktop gives you wireless transmission data and if you watched the video I linked it falls between 6-10 ms. That much extra lag isn’t game breaking. You typically have more latency in native console gaming actually.
The most important think is the head rotation latency being 20 ms or lower and that will always be the case with ATW that’s always running on the headset.
01011001
Banned
Virtual Desktop is not AirLink, is it? Virtual Desktop has its own issues.
and wtf is "You typically have more latency in native console gaming actually" supposed to mean? that 10ms of lag AirLink ADDS to the equation is not all the lag you have. a typical console game at 60fps has about 60 to 90ms of input lag, not adding TV lag (with a good TV you will be at 72 ms to 102 ms for a good 60fps console game)
the end to end lag from controller input to image output is: Controller Latency + Game Engine Latency + API latency + OS latency + TV latency
all that's measured in these overlays is the end to end from picture finished rendering to the moment it is displayed on your device. so 40ms and more is actually already REALLY high, with airplay you will be above 50ms going into 60ms territory... that would be unacceptable in a normal FPS, console or PC. that's like played on a TV with game mode off basically and image enhancements on.
let's say Half Life Alyx has 50ms of lag simply due to engine, api and OS. add 45ms to that, which is via Link Cable, and you are at 94ms, which is already worse than a well made console FPS like Call of Duty. then add another 6-10ms and you are above 100ms end to end latency. you are now in the 30fps console shooter territory, so Halo 3 on Xbox 360 played on a good TV will have less latency
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Tygeezy
Member
You can also measure the latency difference between link and airlink once again like the video I linked. It’s 6-10 ms of added latency just like virtual desktop. games are optimized for low latency so the game engine will not have 50 ms of latency. Game latency is usually 10 ms or lower for vr games.
Even a juggernaut game like Asgards wrath was hitting 60 ms of TOTAL latency in airlink. There was nothing approaching 90 ms of latency.
I think there is just some misunderstanding here. I’m comparing controller latency to that of consoles because that is where you will feel the lag. Turning your head is just as smooth as native games. So what I’m saying is if you’re okay with controller latency on consoles you will most likely be okay with controller latency on airlink.
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01011001
Banned
10 ms difference is still noticeable, and easily so. also, I would need info on engine latency for games like that. I can't see any reason why they would be any better than any other game with similar graphical prowess. why should Alxy have less engine latency than Titanfall 2 for example, both running on similar engines (Modified Source engine vs Source Engine 2)
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
What game are you able to notice lag?
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*edit* Finally got the v29 update with 120Hz Air Link and the new stupid menu. Beat Saber at 120Hz is great.
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Tygeezy
Member
Yes, you can get virtual desktop on steam and use link or airlink at 120 hz and play pc games in different environments like an imax size theatre.
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
Check out the difference in latency as you increase frame rate. 72Hz has around 15% more latency than 90Hz.
*I forgot to mute one of the comparison streams, so you'll need to mute the video*
I remember during GeForce Now beta they had a 720p/120fps mode and made a noticeable difference in reducing input latency. I'd guess the latency for Air Link at 120Hz is right on top of Link Cable at 72Hz.
P.S.- I loved the video, but I got a kick out of him saying he's a drummer(appeal to authority) and testing Beat Saber on anything but Ex+. It's very, very close to native latency. I'm guessing that's to do with Quest 2 Beat Saber being 72Hz, while Air Link/VD + Steam Saber is 120Hz.
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Tygeezy
Member
Yeah, the raw data was great but then his subjective analysis based on his ‘expertise’ was the complete opposite. You may be on to something with beat saber at 120 hz airlink possibly being a superior experience to native beatsaber at 72 hz.
I don’t like the game enough to buy another copy of it. It really should be a cross buy game anyway.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Maybe somethings wrong with your setup because I don’t notice any difference in latency between airlink and cable.
In native quest mode when I wave my controllers around it feels 1:1 and it’s the same in airlink mode.
What is your setup like? How was the latency when using virtual desktop? What graphics card have you got? I noticed a big improvement with encoding time going from AMD to nVidia.
Tygeezy
Member
So I picked up a UniFi U6 lite access point and what’s interesting is my quest 2 will connect to that over the closer router that’s one room over while it’s in my bedroom. The new access point is downstairs but virtual desktop and my router is showing that is connected at 1200 mbps which is pretty crazy considering how far away it is. My dream machine router is only wifi 5, so maybe that’s why my router is telling the device to connect to the wifi 6 ap…
Anyway, 120 hz just became available to me. I get 36-37 ms latency in 120 hz mode and 42-43 ms at 90 hz and I’m pretty far away from this access point that has a floor between it. Airlink is damn good.
Anyway, 120 hz just became available to me. I get 36-37 ms latency in 120 hz mode and 42-43 ms at 90 hz and I’m pretty far away from this access point that has a floor between it. Airlink is damn good.
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
Nice. Quest 2 is fucking ludicrous. This is shit is the real next-gen experience.
I moved out to the living room near the router(Netgear Nighthawk X6) and played some Ex+ Beat Saber via VD and was getting right around that same 36-37ms in 120Hz mode with Beat Saber running 120fps on my PC. It's not flawless in the regards that there's occasional minor blips/stutter(very minor) every minute or so, maybe to do with network traffic.
The input latency is at a level that I can't tell the difference between 120Hz wireless and native Quest 2 play. There's just a line that despite whatever seemingly significant percentage it's faster, it's not going to be perceivable by the normal player(regular Ex+ bro, not pro-tier).
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Twinguistics
Member
EX+ beat saber to test latency. Lol.
Nice. Quest 2 is fucking ludicrous. This is shit is the real next-gen experience.
I moved out to the living room near the router(Netgear Nighthawk X6) and played some Ex+ Beat Saber via VD and was getting right around that same 36-37ms in 120Hz mode with Beat Saber running 120fps on my PC. It's not flawless in the regards that there's occasional minor blips/stutter(very minor) every minute or so, maybe to do with network traffic.
The input latency is at a level that I can't tell the difference between 120Hz wireless and native Quest 2 play. There's just a line that despite whatever seemingly significant percentage it's faster, it's not going to be perceivable by the normal player(regular Ex+ bro, not pro-tier).
I might be able to judge the latency of the song failed screen after I flame out in two seconds lol.
namekuseijin
Banned
in the absence of actual games, nothing better than to discuss tech jargon and hacks to make things work...
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
Thanks, tried this a bit last night, not sure I'd I was actually getting 120hz or not, but I had very little time to try it so I will again another day.
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
While I can partially agree with this, did you really just come into the quest thread just to troll?
Tygeezy
Member
You have to go into your oculus app on your pc, click on device, go to graphic settings and set the reresh rate to 120 hz. You can also adjust the resolution there.
Tygeezy
Member
It seems since psvr 2 has had some rumors floating about it's been quest is nothing but mini games and mocking pcvr.
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
Ya I had that set to 120hz, as well as the headset enabled. I played with the resolution a well. It just sort of felt like when I changed the game from 60hz to 120hz there wasn't any difference. Mind you I just randomly tried shadow warrior so maybe that was the issue.....
Tygeezy
Member
I haven't tried it myself. I was waiting for link/airlink to get 120 hz before I purchased the steam version of virtual desktop to try it out.
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
Just look at the 2 things posted right before he got triggered:
1. 120Hz Quest 2+PCVR wireless
2. Demeo
If he was a real VR fan, he would be excited about these things, but he is a PSVR fanboy, so understandably butthurt.
P.S.- DLSS for VR has got 'em sweating, too.
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Tygeezy
Member
There really doesn't need to be any fanboying going on with VR since we are all looking for it to grow. I plan on getting psvr 2 to go along with pcvr and quest mobile games.Just look at the 2 things posted right before he got triggered:
1. 120Hz Quest 2+PCVR wireless
2. Demeo
If he was a real VR fan, he would be excited about these things, but he is a PSVR fanboy, so understandably butthurt.
P.S.- DLSS for VR has got 'em sweating, too.
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
120Hz wireless VR is fucking awesome, not just some gimmick tech feature.
namekuseijin
Banned
mimimi minigames, tech jargon
meanwhile, they presented a (very limited and obviously underperformant) unofficial VR mod for RDR2 yesterday and it got no coverage here
but that's a bad mod, here's one that's about as good as fully featured as Dr. Beef's: 6DoF mod for Risk of Rain 2
if shills here in this minicrap den actually cared for games they'd know about these...
meanwhile, they presented a (very limited and obviously underperformant) unofficial VR mod for RDR2 yesterday and it got no coverage here
but that's a bad mod, here's one that's about as good as fully featured as Dr. Beef's: 6DoF mod for Risk of Rain 2
if shills here in this minicrap den actually cared for games they'd know about these...
Tygeezy
Member
The VR mod for rdr 2 is a great first step but it needs tons of work before I would have any interest in in trying out. Supporting motion controls for one. I’m just not going to play a first person vr game with a traditional game pad.
I actually just heard of the great risk of rain mod 2 today, so I guess excuse us for not running to the keyboard right away to post about it? I am buying the game tonight though and will try out the mod this weekend.
I’m not sure what exactly we are shilling for when we are playing vr on multiple platforms and are open to psvr2. You on the other hand have been dumping all over quest 2 and pcvr lately while touting how Sony will save us all… That is more shill like behavior in my opinion.
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namekuseijin
Banned
I stumbled upon this kid:
same usual talk as any other YouTuber, but from child mouth, it's funny
Anyway, that's your typical online soldier post-Quest
that's because it will. Actual ports with great performance day one rather than crappy mods or indie minigames. Well, that's what I'm expecting anyway, but that was what I also expected from psvr1, so you may roast me if I turn out wrong again...
same usual talk as any other YouTuber, but from child mouth, it's funny
Anyway, that's your typical online soldier post-Questthat's because it will. Actual ports with great performance day one rather than crappy mods or indie minigames. Well, that's what I'm expecting anyway, but that was what I also expected from psvr1, so you may roast me if I turn out wrong again...
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
Just finished Half Life Alyx tonight. Omg the final levels and that ending!
Easily the best game I’ve played since the last 10 years.
Easily the best game I’ve played since the last 10 years.
Tygeezy
Member
I just tried risk of rain 2 out. The mod is pretty dang good. You need some serious vr legs for it. You run pretty damn fast and you need to be mobile pretty much the entire time or you will die. That means it isn’t a good game for room space because you just won’t out run or outmaneuver a thumb stick.
It runs pretty well too. It looks like any game based off of unity is a good candidate for a vr mod because that engine has tons of vr tools. Most vr games on the quest are probably unity and if they aren’t they are unreal 4.
when the valheim vr mod improves I look forward to trying that out since I really enjoythe flat game.
It runs pretty well too. It looks like any game based off of unity is a good candidate for a vr mod because that engine has tons of vr tools. Most vr games on the quest are probably unity and if they aren’t they are unreal 4.
when the valheim vr mod improves I look forward to trying that out since I really enjoythe flat game.
Twinguistics
Member
Awesome, I already have ror2 but didn't put a ton of time into the pancake but I'm excited to try it in vr. Not being able to save mid run (which can be long) really hurt my enjoyment but I think I'll be dying pretty quickly anyway lol.
Man, VR is killing it right now. I've got way too much to play. Just got gamepass and started no man's sky (amazing) and finally getting around to Tetris effect in VR too.
namekuseijin
Banned
wow, just 2 dollars for this minigame:
Insane deal, omg hurry
/s
Insane deal, omg hurry
/s
Kazza
Member
I think that most of us in this thread are pretty new to VR, and so are just having a great time exploring the best of the last 5 years of medium. While I appreciate that the current lack of new meaty titles might be a little frustrating for someone like yourself, your constant complaining about it is beginning to drag down an otherwise very positive thread. Maybe just let us newbies enjoy ourselves for a while and come back once the likes of RE4, Splinter Cell, Ass Creed etc come out later this year.
Speaking of newbie VR pleasures, I've been having a great time with Beat Saber, Superhot and Moss. I've started getting As and Ss at Expert mode in Beat Saber this week, so thought I would give Ex+ a try....nope, not gonna happen yet, I think I need to drop the speed down 30% to be able to last more than 10 seconds before a game over. Anyone here mastered the Ex+ levels yet?
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
I love Beat Saber. Great way to start the day! I'm a beginning Ex+ player and only started VR/Beat Saber 6 months ago. Can complete 'Breezer' with consistency, and almost there with 'Into the Dream'.
Are you playing on Quest 2 or Steam?
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Twinguistics
Member
So I just tried out risk of rain 2, it runs and works great but.......
It's just too difficult in vr! Granted I find the pancake game tough but I can hardly survive two minutes in vr. I also couldn't find the option for smooth turning and so had to stick with snap turn.
Might play it a bit more but it's just not balanced for vr. Fun for a quick blast if you already own it though I suppose she the mod works great.
It's just too difficult in vr! Granted I find the pancake game tough but I can hardly survive two minutes in vr. I also couldn't find the option for smooth turning and so had to stick with snap turn.
Might play it a bit more but it's just not balanced for vr. Fun for a quick blast if you already own it though I suppose she the mod works great.
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midasmulligan
Member
harmny
Banned
I stumbled upon this kid:
same usual talk as any other YouTuber, but from child mouth, it's funny
that's because it will. Actual ports with great performance day one rather than crappy mods or indie minigames. Well, that's what I'm expecting anyway, but that was what I also expected from psvr1, so you may roast me if I turn out wrong again...
Psvr2 will be a piece of shit if I need a cable connected to my hmd to play
Tygeezy
Member
Apparently you can turn off snap turning in the config editor of that mod manager program which will enable smooth turning.
Kazza
Member
Quest 2. I'm hoping for a 120Hz update soon.
harmny
Banned
But the 120hz update is already live
Kazza
Member
I'm talking about an update for Beat Saber specifically. Also, the actual Oculus 120Hz system update still doesn't seem to be available where I am (UK).
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
Cool. I mostly play on the Quest 2 version for convenience. I really want to learn how to do the mixed reality/green screen vids using Quest 2. Those make you look so badass like a Jedi.
Twinguistics
Member
Found it, thanks! I tried it again but with Huntress this time and at least got to the first area boss and nearly took it down. Was fun, think I'll probably keep playing this a little bit when I want a change of pace from NMS (can't believe how good that game is).
By the way, just learned of a Yooka Laylee VR mod and might check that out later as the game is only £1 from key shops. I saw a lot of love for Moss here and so it could be interesting for some of you.
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
Well I'll be damned, Facebook actually sent the replacement face cushion(VR Cover).
It took some effort to get it. Initially support responded and said that their records indicated I had already received a replacement. I told them that was impossible and to please provide the name, date, and address they shipped it to. They responded back that there seemed to be an error and they would ship it out asap.
Now of course I do own a VR Cover face cushion, but I bought it from Amazon for $30 and that shouldn't disqualify me from getting the replacement. The pack-in foam cushion was hurting my face. It would be weird and creepy if they had responded with the date I bought or received that from Amazon.
Either way, I'm happy they came through with the replacement and now I can have a normal VR Cover cushion and extra thick each on their own bracket.
It took some effort to get it. Initially support responded and said that their records indicated I had already received a replacement. I told them that was impossible and to please provide the name, date, and address they shipped it to. They responded back that there seemed to be an error and they would ship it out asap.
Now of course I do own a VR Cover face cushion, but I bought it from Amazon for $30 and that shouldn't disqualify me from getting the replacement. The pack-in foam cushion was hurting my face. It would be weird and creepy if they had responded with the date I bought or received that from Amazon.
Either way, I'm happy they came through with the replacement and now I can have a normal VR Cover cushion and extra thick each on their own bracket.
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Nice, I'm hoping they'll send me one too. The regular foam hurts my face too when I tighten the strap. I played for maybe 1.5 hours yesterday and noticed afterwards I'd gotten all numb from the pressure. Today I still haven't regained all sensation so I guess I damaged some nerves.Well I'll be damned, Facebook actually sent the replacement face cushion(VR Cover).
It took some effort to get it. Initially support responded and said that their records indicated I had already received a replacement. I told them that was impossible and to please provide the name, date, and address they shipped it to. They responded back that there seemed to be an error and they would ship it out asap.
Now of course I do own a VR Cover face cushion, but I bought it from Amazon for $30 and that shouldn't disqualify me from getting the replacement. The pack-in foam cushion was hurting my face. It would be weird and creepy if they had responded with the date I bought or received that from Amazon.
Either way, I'm happy they came through with the replacement and now I can have a normal VR Cover cushion and extra thick each on their own bracket.
01011001
Banned
so I just got my link cable and the difference is immediately noticable...
and it's not my setup, tests by people show that there is a minimum of 10ms difference over airlink compared to link cable.
and 10ms is noticable, very noticable to me, which is one of the reasons I got a new TV 1½ years ago. my old one had 29ms of latency and the new one 18ms (7ms in 120hz), because 29ms was simply too much for me since I started playing on PC more again.
my PC is a Ryzen 2600 and a GTX1070oc, connected via cable to the router. the router is in the same room, every other devices that connect to wifi were either off or idle.
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Tygeezy
Member
You keep saying minimum when in actuality it's 6-10 ms latency penalty which is pretty standard for current wifi on the 5ghz band. Wifi 6e is suppose to be 1-2 ms, but we will see. If you're that sensitive to latency maybe you should get a native headset like a rift s? Then you will cut down on the encoding and decoding latency as well.
Come On Tars
Member
Man I just downloaded the new virtual desktop app and its a big improvement. I did up it to 120hz i dont know if that option was there before.
PleaseDontBanMe
Banned
I'd like to play thisJust finished Half Life Alyx tonight. Omg the final levels and that ending!
Easily the best game I’ve played since the last 10 years.
but the last time i tried it was juttering like hell on my 3080
Romulus
Member
Somethings not right. I played it on high on a 2070S and it was smooth.