Oculus Rift - Dev Kit Discussion [Orders Arriving]

Galvanic vestibular stimulation.

Yeah, I'd expect this to differ greatly from person to person. Palmer said he can use it for hours without negative effects.
It's all fun and games until someone ramps up the vestibulator shocking voltage to brain-frying levels (ok so it probably can't fry your brain)! I feel like convincing people to try virtual reality goggles is a little more likely to gain acceptance than convincing people to pad on some electrodes. :P
 
As Palmer says, we're at Day Zero.

We're not even to day 0 yet for the OR, positional tracking isn't even implemented in the dev kits, that is an essential first step for VR and is probably a big contributor to the sickness people are feeling with the kits that lack them, as only the orientation of the head is being tacked while all the movements your head makes alongside that aren't being translated to your eyes at all.

e: wow that VR/tracking system posted on the last page is amazing
 
I think this was the biggest problem with people posting all those positive first impressions. A five minute, controlled demo can absolutely wow. And blow people away with a glimpse of the future. But this thing has always been just a dev tool so that actual developers would have something to test things with.
A lot of people have themselves to blame for overhyping the dev kit and interpreting those positive impressions as proof that the Oculus Rift is ready for prime time. Granted, I haven't read all of the coverage out there, but the general sentiment is virtual reality is finally here, and it's awesome simply because it's virtual reality, but it obviously still has a long way to go. Software support was obviously going to be limited, too. I think a good chunk of buyers are going to be disappointed because they made themselves believe this was the equivalent of a consumer product.
 
I've gotta say this lack of shipping confirmation/tracking is incredibly frustrating.
Yeah definitely. Im constantly checking my email and this board to see shipping confirmations. It seems like they shipped out a few last week just so they could say they had met their shipping target. I know they are busy with GDC and they are not an Amazon warehouse, but I feel like a little more communication would help. I know that I'm just being impatient. I'm just incredibly excited to try this thing!
 
I think the positive impressions still outnumber the negative ones. I love mine and I'm definitely in for the consumer version (and probably the next dev kit version) day one.

The number of times we're hearing about "motion blur" in the Dev Kit is kind of at odds with the impressions we were hearing out of GDC and PAX.

It's a dev kit so it really doesn't matter a whole lot, but still. Dev kit 2 can't come soon enough, but at the same time...it can totally come too soon. Mostly because I don't have DK1 yet.

I've gotta say this lack of shipping confirmation/tracking is incredibly frustrating.

I'm moving in a month which seems to be right around when I'd be getting a Rift. I'd like a little bit more information about the time line and when the last possible date to switch the address would be, but I'm not that concerned.
 
The number of times we're hearing about "motion blur" in the Dev Kit is kind of at odds with the impressions we were hearing out of GDC and PAX.

There are definitely issues with the screen and motion blur is one of them. It is way way more noticeable in Tuscany than anything else I've used though for some reason and I assume that's what most of the reports are coming from. In TF2 I don't remember noticing it much at all and that's probably the case with Hawken too, which is what most people at GDC were demoing.

I just tried a version of Doom 3 BFG that people from mtbs3d are working on with almost working head tracking and warping and it was very cool. Shouldn't be long before it's fully playable I think.
 
Yeah definitely. Im constantly checking my email and this board to see shipping confirmations. It seems like they shipped out a few last week just so they could say they had met their shipping target. I know they are busy with GDC and they are not an Amazon warehouse, but I feel like a little more communication would help. I know that I'm just being impatient. I'm just incredibly excited to try this thing!

I wouldn't say you're just being impatient, there has been virtually zero communication between them and customers. Two days after GDC weekend and still nothing.
 
Galvanic vestibular stimulation.
Lol, I just read up on that a bit, it sounds like something straight out of Kojima's mind:
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/9816703/ns/technology_and_science-innovation/#.UVuZcL-CjQc
I felt a mysterious, irresistible urge to start walking to the right whenever the researcher turned the switch to the right. I was convinced — mistakenly — that this was the only way to maintain my balance. The phenomenon is painless but dramatic. Your feet start to move before you know it. I could even remote-control myself by taking the switch into my own hands.
This sounds essentially like a remote control for people. I have my doubts this would ever be allowed for use in commercial products.

I'm really curious if I'll experience any motion sickness with the Rift. I've never ever had any game-induced motion sickness, regardless of game, FoV, or playing with 3D vision for 7 hours.
I know for sure that guy at work who bought his rift didn't either.
 
This sounds essentially like a remote control for people. I have my doubts this would ever be allowed for use in commercial products.
It's not a remote control for people, it's just a control for your inner ear. Which is exactly what is needed for even better VR :P
 
It's not a remote control for people, it's just a control for your inner ear. Which is exactly what is needed for even better VR :P
That's what article author who tried it called it actually, but no matter what, I think we'll have to wait for it to become available in these types of devices before they become suitable for longer term comfortable use. Even with something like this you'd potentially have problem where you have the camera control decoupled from your head movement (to get back to my example where you move the head one way but rotate the view the other way.

Also, to whoever was saying that GAF impressions are negative, don't take it that way from what I was saying. I can guarantee you two things will impress you:
- Sitting in place and looking around, you'll be mesmerized by how much it seems like you're in that place in VR. Head tracking responsiveness is also far better than I thought it would be.
- Elevate your position in the demo so it looks like you're flying around, keep slowly moving forward and sit in the office chair so that you can steer by rotating yourself with the chair. You'll feel like you're in some kind of open mini-copter.

You can do both of these things with the Unity demo that comes with the unit. I can't wait to try the Epic Citadel demo, which looks substantially better.

- Oh yes, it's also pretty neat when you open the popup menu in the demo by pressing Space, or the HUD that you have in TF2. You'll immediately feel like a cyborg or something, because the menu follows wherever you look.

There are definitely issues with the screen and motion blur is one of them. It is way way more noticeable in Tuscany than anything else I've used though for some reason
We tried it in HL2, and it was noticeable there as well, but now that you mention it, It was more noticeable in the demo, maybe because it has brighter and contrasty colors. I don't remember noticing it that much in TF2, but I was more paying attention to playing the game than the visuals there.
 
Do you know what would be awesome gaf?
If we get those hydraulic arcades machines of old then use it with the rift instead of monitors.
 
One of those old Jet Fighter games on a hydraulic rig would be incredible with the Rift.

Motion rigs are coming down in price all the time. They're actually getting pretty popular with racing sims. Entry price is around 2000 dollars right now. While that sounds expensive, it seems a year or two ago, entry level was 5000.
 

Great coverage. Interesting conversation towards the end as well.

But yeah; Jeremy's point is entirely salient - it's a new medium essentially.

It shares some degree of commonality with what we already know... but think about it this way:

What we have now is akin to running a video feed to a monitor, then controlling that person with gamepad inputs.

Of course this OR dev kit isn't exactly all the way to: you're now in a virtual reality body, and what you touch is what you touch... how you move is how you move. But it's certainly much closer to that now than the video feed to a monitor analogy.


Once VR starts to gain traction and support for FPS accessories and implements gain traction (a plastic gun with motion sensor), we will come to see the KB/M FPS as somewhat anachronistic; an artifact of 2 decades spent with previous gen input/output devices - accepting a drop in absolute accuracy and reaction speed for a increase in all other forms of immersive interactivity.
 
yep. although its connected to a PC, its better not to consider it along with PC games.


btw, european orders are being processed at the moment, and someone in the UK has just got tracking info showing theirs in in the country. So EU Gaf go and check your status (mine is still waiting :/ )
 
Sorry if this has been asked already, but I'm still really confused about the resolution stuff. If each eye is half the advertised resolution (1280x800 or whatever it was), what is the effective resolution of the Oculus compared to a regular monitor? I mean, if you want the same IQ as a regular 1080p monitor, do you need an Oculus with twice that resolution (i.e. 1080p per eye)?
 
Sorry if this has been asked already, but I'm still really confused about the resolution stuff. If each eye is half the advertised resolution (1280x800 or whatever it was), what is the effective resolution of the Oculus compared to a regular monitor? I mean, if you want the same IQ as a regular 1080p monitor, do you need an Oculus with twice that resolution (i.e. 1080p per eye)?

Yes (and no).

Yes. You'd need 1080p per eye. But even if you achieved that, 1080p (for each eye) at 110 degrees FOV is going to have much rougher IQ than a 1080p monitor that's at 35 - 45 degrees FOV.

Still worth the benefit over a monitor: vastly improved immersion.
 
Yes (and no).

Yes. You'd need 1080p per eye. But even if you achieved that, 1080p (for each eye) at 110 degrees FOV is going to have much rougher IQ than a 1080p monitor that's at 35 - 45 degrees FOV.

Still worth the benefit over a monitor: vastly improved immersion.

I see, thanks :(
 
yep. although its connected to a PC, its better not to consider it along with PC games.


btw, european orders are being processed at the moment, and someone in the UK has just got tracking info showing theirs in in the country. So EU Gaf go and check your status (mine is still waiting :/ )

Mine's sitting at Ready

What does this mean?!?!!?
 
So I heard a rumor from someone that the Oculus SDK does not allow open source software to interface with it due to some legal issues? I'm just looking for clarification, all I understand is that the current license offered by the rift makes it incompatible with third party open source software.
 
Mine's sitting at Ready

What does this mean?!?!!?

That just means your order has been received. It should switch to "Processing" before it ships. There may be a "Shipped" status too but who knows with this order system. Mine is still listed as processing and I've had it since Friday.
 
Welcome to GAF.

You say that as though it's a bad thing. There hasn't been any trolling. Giving objective impressions that aren't sugar coating things is good. So is constructive criticism that looks past the immediate WOW factor and takes objective looks at things. Anyone looking to purchase this thing right now isn't looking for a great five minute experience. They want to know its long term game playing potential... as the kit is presently composed.
 
So I heard a rumor from someone that the Oculus SDK does not allow open source software to interface with it due to some legal issues? I'm just looking for clarification, all I understand is that the current license offered by the rift makes it incompatible with third party open source software.

I know next to nothing about this kind of thing but there has been some discussion of this on mtbs3d. The guy who made the Vireio Perception drivers seems to think it may be incompatible with the GPL license but not with open source in general. He mentioned that he may switch to an MIT license.
 
You say that as though it's a bad thing. There hasn't been any trolling. Giving objective impressions that aren't sugar coating things is good. So is constructive criticism that looks past the immediate WOW factor and takes objective looks at things. Anyone looking to purchase this thing right now isn't looking for a great five minute experience. They want to know its long term game playing potential... as the kit is presently composed.

I've only read bits and pieces of the thread so I'll admit that my comment might not apply here but it's still the truth most times though.

Carry on.
 
http://kotaku.com/five-years-and-nothing-to-show-how-doom-4-got-off-trac-468097062

Sounds like Id is in absolute disarray at the moment. Guess this could possibly explain why Doom 3 suddenly is missing from lists. Getting the entire game into passable playing shape is probably more difficult than most would like to imagine. And if Zenimax is really this displeased with Id, and Carmack is fighting so hard to right the ship, doesn't seem like he'd be in a position to defend "wasting" time on Rift to Zenimax.

And more importantly, it's hard to prioritize spending time on a vanity project when people's jobs are at stake. I'm sure he takes that responsibility seriously.
 
So I heard a rumor from someone that the Oculus SDK does not allow open source software to interface with it due to some legal issues? I'm just looking for clarification, all I understand is that the current license offered by the rift makes it incompatible with third party open source software.
My understanding is that this is not true. If you have a source or further information, or a quote from the SDK agreement, by all means link it, but as far as I read in the SDK license, you can use the SDK for whatever, and it explicitly calls out examples of things that are not considered derivative software (for example, making a game that uses the SDK).

*edit* I found the thread: http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=16945

The situation is that GPL specifically (maybe even only GPLv3) may be incompatible, I think because GPL doesn't want you to use non-GPL libraries? GPL is one of the most restrictive software licenses in this regard.

Software with pretty much any other open source license, such as MIT, should be fine. As a result, the Vireo Perception driver author is considering releasing the code under that license, as someone mentioned.

Of course, if anyone's a lawyer or has better information, feel free to correct me.
 
Honestly this is the only forum where I've read negative impressions, everywhere else everyone is pretty impressed by it.
Hey, I'm quite impressed by it, but it's not like it doesn't have faults. I don't think I'd want to use it for everyday game playing, but it's great for tinkering.
 
Honestly this is the only forum where I've read negative impressions, everywhere else everyone is pretty impressed by it.
I disagree - all the negatives have been out in the open ever since we knew about the device. The creator of the thing discusses flaws and what needs improving in almost every interview.

The really positive impressions from the blogs come from that initial buzz from trying it out for the first time. There is nothing quite like it, so people are bound to be excited. But after the buzz, the only thing left to do is say what's wrong with it. And being a first attempt, that's pretty much everything.

Look at the Tested video - they're impressed as well as acknowledging that there is a huge list of problems.
 
My understanding is that this is not true. If you have a source or further information, or a quote from the SDK agreement, by all means link it, but as far as I read in the SDK license, you can use the SDK for whatever, and it explicitly calls out examples of things that are not considered derivative software (for example, making a game that uses the SDK).

*edit* I found the thread: http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=16945

The situation is that GPL specifically (maybe even only GPLv3) may be incompatible, I think because GPL doesn't want you to use non-GPL libraries? GPL is one of the most restrictive software licenses in this regard.

Software with pretty much any other open source license, such as MIT, should be fine. As a result, the Vireo Perception driver author is considering releasing the code under that license, as someone mentioned.

Of course, if anyone's a lawyer or has better information, feel free to correct me.


isn't it more an issue of - if you include non open source software within open source software - it becomes no longer open source? So I'm sure Oculus have no issues with the reuse of their code, it'll be a GPL issue like you say.


I am a bit surprised that they don't have a neat Java or openGL solution, considering they have Valve support and some of the first kits went to Mojang
 
yep. although its connected to a PC, its better not to consider it along with PC games.


btw, european orders are being processed at the moment, and someone in the UK has just got tracking info showing theirs in in the country. So EU Gaf go and check your status (mine is still waiting :/ )

What's your order number?
Mine is 8700ish and still not yet processing.

Curious about the customs clearance charge.
 

Got around to watching it. Good video. Really impressed by the effort Valve put into the different control options. The in-game pupilitory tool. The thought about centering the hud into the middle of the screen.

Definitely worth watching for anyone out there. The future's exciting (although this rev is a dev tool and they make no claims to the contrary).
 
isn't it more an issue of - if you include non open source software within open source software - it becomes no longer open source? So I'm sure Oculus have no issues with the reuse of their code, it'll be a GPL issue like you say.


I am a bit surprised that they don't have a neat Java or openGL solution, considering they have Valve support and some of the first kits went to Mojang
The thing is that you don't need to use SDK code, I thought? I haven't yet downloaded the library but it appeared to just be a C/C++ library that you link with and use, like any sort of standard software library.

I think all the license restricts is if you start modifying the SDK itself, by adding new features or changing the way things work, instead of just using the SDK to add Oculus support, there are additional restrictions (e.g. you can't copy part of the SDK and distribute it by itself, if you modify it you have to distribute the whole thing).

Regarding Java, Notch was working on that, might not have succeeded, and some other people may be working on it as well in the dev forums. Here's a link with a Java OpenGL example:

https://developer.oculusvr.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=88&p=1017&hilit=opengl#p1017
 
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