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Of Gods and Men [Mafia] | Ambrosia In Front Of Me
- Thread starter Royal_Flush
- Start date
Ocean is 1000% scum
Also just noticed this:
I think Crimson was killed to frame town Gorlak (as well as being a somewhat trusted softclaiming PR who was unlikely to be protected, of course).
Sooooooooo you thought the two leading lynch candidates were town, and made no effort to change that? Sitting on Zipped when most of town trusted him is such a pointless gesture, you might as well have not voted. You were around when I made a push for LP, why not move your vote to him? Or suggest someone else? Anything really. I didn't even trust Darryl and I did more to save him than you did.
Also just noticed this:
It's so understated I didn't even catch it at first, but the implication is that Crimson was killed for suspecting scum Gorlak.
I think Crimson was killed to frame town Gorlak (as well as being a somewhat trusted softclaiming PR who was unlikely to be protected, of course).
What exactly are you doing here? Shitposting - Dwelling in the memories of LB, casting a suspicious light on yourself here because ... reasons? And more over why does nobody care?
How can you miss the obvious reason you were in the scum list above? It's right in the next question of my quoted post. You are one of the persons to not have talked about LP.
And you have to be a bit more specific I do not want to discuss if Darryl understood his power/explained it accordingly or anything concerning his power at all, because it's useless and a waste of time. We can talk about Darryl tunneling me all game or attributing the LR to me again and again. He behaved very odd.
I did not twist his words, you just try to throw some shade at me here.
Scum can redirect. That's a fact because my power did not hit my intended target. Therefore they do not have to fear me in the slightest. I'm the suspicious bastard, making every wrong move there is in this game. I'm, again, a hot topic for the day. In hindsight.. using my power was pretty dumb. In the case I do nothing at night, the biggest disadvantage for scum would've been nothing happening from this. There would've been only one kill. So why would they even think of not redirecting but killing me? I didn't think my night action through. Immediatly after my bluff post and day end I sent the command to martyrize lp.
So my bluff was useless to begin with, but in addition yesterday I still had hope that they can't redirect. That's why I took the risk. It backfired.
I need a direct quote here.
You want me to reiterate why I thought Darryl was scum? Look above. There are also enough posts in the past days that explain my viewpoint. I even made another statement closer to day end why I voted him #622. I was convinced he was scum.
Yes, after how the day ended with splinter trying to shift votes to lp, I was convinced it is worth it to try and take lp out.
Do you think he is town?
What are you even talking about? My argument still stands. Zipped only revealed the LR after I revealed to have targeted myself. So in a planned unnecessary gambit I could've thunderdomed Darryl and it would have backfired immediatly because of the soon followed LR reveal.
You convinced me. I can't get a proper read on you. Either you're town MVP with trying to save me and Darryl or you're scum who knows there is no risk to defend us. For now I decided to put some trust in you. But as soon as we have found the first scum I'll come back and revisit you.
I was shitposting while tired and in good mood. Around 2AM local time. Having a laugh at my own expense. Having, you know, this thing called. What was it. Hmm. It began with f. Ahh, fun, that was it. Happy with the straw that you grasped at so?
OceanicAir
Member
Sitting on FEP all freaking day is so much better? Yeah you moved your vote away but with two hours remaining. But it wasn't even because you thought he was town either, you declared him scum. And what do you expect to happen in that two hour period? People to randomly swing because others do?
And because I thought that two people up for lynch were town and thought that someone else that "the rest of town" (which includes mafia) thinks is town means I'm scummy? I think that town is being really quiet and that mafia is leading the lynches. Also, you do understand that the majority of "town" also thought that Darryl/FEP were scum too. So Zipped having town's trust is beyond meaningless. I stated my case through out the day and If people don't follow, so be it.
I also said that I'm not doing any last minute BS vote changes either and that the people leading that L_P lynch were all people that I have said were scum that day (you/zipped to a lesser extent Swamped). So how would it make much sense for me to switch with you anyway.
No... It was because he had issues with Gorlak's claim (protective) and it could be guessed that he had protect. I mean look, if Gorlak is Holy Ward, Zipped is View, Darryl has Invite, mafia has Kill (possibly absorb and targets but they are in the position of knowledge) please tell me what's left... oh yeah, Protect, by the only person who hasn't claimed.
And for the millionth time how did town benefit in any way from Zipped announcing all of the actions? I haven't seen a single reason why it helped and I keep seeing how it did.
Ezekel: I don't know how many killing powers are in the game. I only know scum has one and I had my one shot vig power. I don't know if you are a townie honestly looking for the truth and barking up the wrong tree or scum going in for my lynch. I can't tell. I have done more than enough suspicious things this game to justify being lynched.
We don't have to dance around all day again. If there are enough people who want to lynch me, please do so. I'm tired of self-defending. I'm town and at this point you either believe me or you lynch me.
We don't have to dance around all day again. If there are enough people who want to lynch me, please do so. I'm tired of self-defending. I'm town and at this point you either believe me or you lynch me.
This really made me laugh
Kyan but please just for the sake of it, let's try to play a game here? What do you think of LP? What of Sophia?
What are you even talking about? I never tried to distance myself from FEP's lynch, I thought he was scum (or neutral) right up until he flipped town. I moved my vote because I was confident that enough people were on him that he would be lynched regardless. If you think me voting FEP is scummy then explain, but trying to make a case out of me NOT voting him is fucking nonsense. My position on FEP was very clear.
Back to my actual point. I wasn't criticising you for voting for who you think is scummy. I was criticising you not making ANY attempt to change the course of the day despite apparently thinking we were heading to a double mislynch. You just parked your vote on Zipped as if to say "this is who I suspect, my work here is done".
The classical KyanruteTM day opening post where I think about things to clarify them to me is currently WIP @ 600+ words. I am playing the game, we just go about it different ways, as you surely have understood by now. Just to show that I am not not full of shit, in short:
I am bit uncomfortable with LP lynch atm, as his confused posts at the day start fit with his absence backed by IRL things. It fits, I feel. He falls into the FEP camp on the vote record, camp with most scum candidates in it so I have to compare him against the others to come to some conclusion with this angle of investigation.
I think Sophia is a divine being or scum.
I am bit uncomfortable with LP lynch atm, as his confused posts at the day start fit with his absence backed by IRL things. It fits, I feel. He falls into the FEP camp on the vote record, camp with most scum candidates in it so I have to compare him against the others to come to some conclusion with this angle of investigation.
I think Sophia is a divine being or scum.
OceanicAir
Member
Taking a step out of my tunnel for a second and just reframing everything (it was just so comfy ;_.
So today's edicts are one town knowing another and ninja actions. I got two things from this, 1) zipped is probably not mafia unless we have a non-zipped tracker (still will never get the point of releasing all of the actions...) and 2) mafia is either holding back a powerful edict or a power role, because I don't see the point in making all actions ninja since we already know the actions.
So apologies and back to the drawing board I go. Kinda discouraging that two of my main suspects are town/likely town but better unlynched than lynched.
. So today's edicts are one town knowing another and ninja actions. I got two things from this, 1) zipped is probably not mafia unless we have a non-zipped tracker (still will never get the point of releasing all of the actions...) and 2) mafia is either holding back a powerful edict or a power role, because I don't see the point in making all actions ninja since we already know the actions.
So apologies and back to the drawing board I go. Kinda discouraging that two of my main suspects are town/likely town but better unlynched than lynched.
OceanicAir
Member
I'm just saying in the grand scheme of voting and theories you did more damage. But much like you I put my vote down where I thought scum was and the record is this there for everybody to see.
But please, I spent pretty much all of the day phase explaining why I thought zipped was mafia. Saying I made NO attempt at changing the discourse isn't true.
I do think that more likely than not we are two town going at each other. Because it is quite possible that the other less involved players are just watching us to the dirty work for them.
Ok. Zipped is town or scum team did a really yolo gambit. Here, have two commands: Heal and Protect. Now tell me, which one is the doctors command? What happens if I add Save to the list? Yeah, it is a fair guess for scum to make that in any given game there is a doctor, but guessing the command itself is pretty ballsy. I refuse to believe that the scum team as a whole would go for a play that hinged on a total guess.
So this is my premise for now. Zipped is town. Next, feng, or well, the lightning rod. If Zipped is town there is no reason for him to lie about the list. This means a lightning rod must exist. If feng was a scum faking as a LR, why has not the real LR come forward? There was no LR action last night, what supports fengs claim about the rod being 1-shot. So we can conclude that feng is the LR yet techincally his alignment is unknown. I will say that I believe he is town because scum LR makes no sense. Scum LR works only if one goes full conspiracy theorist and thinks Zipped is scum too.
Then, gorlak. He should have the powers he has, at least the Holy Ward and the additional kill. We cant tell what Holy Ward does or did. Gorlaks alignment cant really be set I feel, because we dont know what Holy Ward does. But scum having a one shot additional kill seems bit ehh to me, as there havent been that many protectives or town bp-folk around. So if you are not named gorlak and did the second kill last night, come forward, gorlak is scum in this case. Then there is the matter of targets, was gorlak redirected or not? The meta/balance side of things makes me think that he is town = redirect exists and is a scum role.
This leads into the vote record. Lets take a sidestep there for a bit. Setting gorlak and feng as town makes dragonz stand out on the Darryl votes. Possible scum there, but there should be 2-3 more. We shall continue. Seath and OA are obviously strange, the odd stray votes that really amount to nothing. Perhaps one of them for scum. 2 to go, with two vote camps to go. One if FEP, another in LP seems like a fair guess, but a guess still, one must remember. I have to look a bit more before I can isolate the best candidates in those two camps. Another alternative is that Sophia is scum and one major vote camp only contained misguided townies.
And now we can get into actual relevant recent coversation topics.
#676, OA. Interesting post. So far, what have the gods given to us that has benefited us? The dictates hampered discussion and got two townies killed. One of todays makes everyone, even scum, ninjas. Intuition is nowhere to be seen. Zippeds list is the only thing I can think of and I feel now that revealing it might have been of questionable use to us. All in all, a whole load of not that much. So with this, and with the gods alignment being its own topic, I feel that this discussion is not something that should be absolutely avoided. The discussion being speculation about the gods identities.
How did the person who sent the message to Zipped know that Zipped had a role. God. Why did the message tell Zipped to target Sophia? What would the return pm be like if Zipped had targeted a god? Would it have had view in it? I have no answer for OAs 3). This theory has a major weakpoint in the way that it requires god-Sophia to know Zippeds role, but not fengs role. Of course, the possibility that she overlooked feng exists. This theory is far from certain, but it is what I have been thinking.
There is also a mad theory here what just came to my mind: Zipped and Sophia are neutrals.
OA speaks of a god-removing dream and three parts. The three that claim to have received the dream are OA, feng and Seath. This is either todays version of Zippeds list or Intuition, as nobody so far has claimed to have received the latter. OA or any dreamer really, can the command be used multiple times? The two versions that OA mentions seem strange too. Two versions, one for each god? Why would a god gift us a spell to kill themselves? A neutral god? An interesting thought, given the mad theory of mine.
#720 OA seems very against the speculation like in this post. Hmm.
#723 Seath did not get anything last night. #730 he gets something. Dropping Seath from the dreamers would increase the likelihood of the dream being Intuition (two targets). Why no messages from the gods then?
So this is my premise for now. Zipped is town. Next, feng, or well, the lightning rod. If Zipped is town there is no reason for him to lie about the list. This means a lightning rod must exist. If feng was a scum faking as a LR, why has not the real LR come forward? There was no LR action last night, what supports fengs claim about the rod being 1-shot. So we can conclude that feng is the LR yet techincally his alignment is unknown. I will say that I believe he is town because scum LR makes no sense. Scum LR works only if one goes full conspiracy theorist and thinks Zipped is scum too.
Then, gorlak. He should have the powers he has, at least the Holy Ward and the additional kill. We cant tell what Holy Ward does or did. Gorlaks alignment cant really be set I feel, because we dont know what Holy Ward does. But scum having a one shot additional kill seems bit ehh to me, as there havent been that many protectives or town bp-folk around. So if you are not named gorlak and did the second kill last night, come forward, gorlak is scum in this case. Then there is the matter of targets, was gorlak redirected or not? The meta/balance side of things makes me think that he is town = redirect exists and is a scum role.
This leads into the vote record. Lets take a sidestep there for a bit. Setting gorlak and feng as town makes dragonz stand out on the Darryl votes. Possible scum there, but there should be 2-3 more. We shall continue. Seath and OA are obviously strange, the odd stray votes that really amount to nothing. Perhaps one of them for scum. 2 to go, with two vote camps to go. One if FEP, another in LP seems like a fair guess, but a guess still, one must remember. I have to look a bit more before I can isolate the best candidates in those two camps. Another alternative is that Sophia is scum and one major vote camp only contained misguided townies.
And now we can get into actual relevant recent coversation topics.
#676, OA. Interesting post. So far, what have the gods given to us that has benefited us? The dictates hampered discussion and got two townies killed. One of todays makes everyone, even scum, ninjas. Intuition is nowhere to be seen. Zippeds list is the only thing I can think of and I feel now that revealing it might have been of questionable use to us. All in all, a whole load of not that much. So with this, and with the gods alignment being its own topic, I feel that this discussion is not something that should be absolutely avoided. The discussion being speculation about the gods identities.
How did the person who sent the message to Zipped know that Zipped had a role. God. Why did the message tell Zipped to target Sophia? What would the return pm be like if Zipped had targeted a god? Would it have had view in it? I have no answer for OAs 3). This theory has a major weakpoint in the way that it requires god-Sophia to know Zippeds role, but not fengs role. Of course, the possibility that she overlooked feng exists. This theory is far from certain, but it is what I have been thinking.
There is also a mad theory here what just came to my mind: Zipped and Sophia are neutrals.
OA speaks of a god-removing dream and three parts. The three that claim to have received the dream are OA, feng and Seath. This is either todays version of Zippeds list or Intuition, as nobody so far has claimed to have received the latter. OA or any dreamer really, can the command be used multiple times? The two versions that OA mentions seem strange too. Two versions, one for each god? Why would a god gift us a spell to kill themselves? A neutral god? An interesting thought, given the mad theory of mine.
#720 OA seems very against the speculation like in this post. Hmm.
#723 Seath did not get anything last night. #730 he gets something. Dropping Seath from the dreamers would increase the likelihood of the dream being Intuition (two targets). Why no messages from the gods then?
OceanicAir
Member
Basically, there are two 3 word spells. Once one spell is used it can't be used again. This would mean that both teams can remove a god. During this dream I could only "learn" one word from one spell.
Zippedpinhead
Member
So am not sure if I answered this but the command was "targets".
Also I got the edict confirmation of another player...
Sophia congratulations you are indeed 100% town.
Also I got the edict confirmation of another player...
Sophia congratulations you are indeed 100% town.
OceanicAir
Member
Yep.
OceanicAir
Member
That yup was to kyanrute. Bit it's nice to know that Sophia/zipped are town though.
EzekelRAGE
Member
He says he didn't receive anything last night, then says he received a dream notification.
And that makes me scum? If we are talking this day phase, several ppl havent talked aobut LP.
Yes you did, you tried to make it look like how he worded the Zipped power list thing was in a way scum would say it.
We do not know if this is a fact, because we can't trust whether you actually targeted LP or not. One of the big issues you pushed last day phase was that targets had to be a redirect role, now you used your power because you doubted it? We suppose to believe that you made a "mistake" and took the shot anyway instead of a roleblock.
No Day 1, why did you feel so badly that he was scum? Was it just OMGUS?
Why not just roleblock LP instead?
Slightly leaning scum until he explains why he speaks like he knows CF was the switch target (assuming there is one).
Gorlak, why didn't you address any of these posts by Crimson?
Or you couldve jsut brought up a scenario where you couldve framed Darryl to make urself look more town since you didn't go that route.
Ok, I don't believe you. So leaving my vote on you until Seath/LP can explain things.
What if Crimson was killed by Gorlak because he know that defense would be used?
EzekelRAGE
Member
Will move Zipp/Sophi to the confirmed town on the vote thing after this league game.
Now that we have Sophia confirmed look at Gorlaks reactions to her.
Immediately tries to say sophia is scummy, like he did me, when someone doesnt agree with his pov. Also his thoughts on what targets is, is odd. I mentioned it could be as simple as seeing who targeted who.
Zipped did the same thing as well.
I only searched switched but the only person to mention a switcher role ystrday was LP. So Gorlak had no reason to assume Targets means switcher
Now that we have Sophia confirmed look at Gorlaks reactions to her.
Immediately tries to say sophia is scummy, like he did me, when someone doesnt agree with his pov. Also his thoughts on what targets is, is odd. I mentioned it could be as simple as seeing who targeted who.
Zipped did the same thing as well.
I only searched switched but the only person to mention a switcher role ystrday was LP. So Gorlak had no reason to assume Targets means switcher
EzekelRAGE
Member
Uhhh... Yay for suddenly being confirmed town.
I'm on mobile right now, real life has priority, but the people I was looking at last night were Splinter, Feng, Gorlak, and LP. I want to point out Splinter's first post at the start of day 2, where he voted for Feng and then FEP in the same post. Thought that was a bit unusual.
I'll be more active once I can hit my PC in a few hours.
I'm on mobile right now, real life has priority, but the people I was looking at last night were Splinter, Feng, Gorlak, and LP. I want to point out Splinter's first post at the start of day 2, where he voted for Feng and then FEP in the same post. Thought that was a bit unusual.
I'll be more active once I can hit my PC in a few hours.
Not last night but on night 1, when I received the dream notification.
Basically this:
I was barely active on Day 2 and was traveling.
EzekelRAGE
Member
Yea it is odd, I guess his excuse is he didnt have time? but that shouldve been his openin post.
Interesting claim.
Ooops...
Pretty much a red flag.
I think Darryl was on the right track here.
Two words: Occam's Razor.
This puts Oceanic Air in my scum suspect list, and someone worth looking at closely.
Going for easy targets.
I'm scratching my head wondering how you're still alive...
Twinkle twinkle little star, you're the scummiest of them all~
Vote: Gorlak
Doesn't have those abilities. I am not exactly sure about the second death.
It doesn't make sense that there would be two doc-like town roles in one game, especially in a smaller game like this. I haven't been in a game like that, and I think it's unlikely. Crimsonfist and Darryl were on the right track here with Gorlak making all of this up and it's no surprise that both of them were targeted by scum. In Darryl's case, bandwagoning because he actually had a great case against scum.
Scum team having a vigilante shot would be unusual, seems like it'd just speed the game up faster... and I can't help but shake the feeling that Scum-Gorlak wouldn't be pushing people like how he did me earlier. Hmm...
If he doesn't have the abilities he claimed, then who is the owner of Holy Ward?
If he doesn't have the abilities he claimed, then who is the owner of Holy Ward?
Not him.
That's not particularly good reasoning. Furthermore, I think if someone else had had the Holy Ward ability wouldn't they have tried to counter-claim him on Day 2 to prevent senseless townie deaths?
In a live game we played in Discord, the remaining scum player tried a last ditch effort to convince the other player to lynch me by claiming that they were my role. The logic there was basically the same here: "Why didn't they claim it sooner when I revealed all the way back at the start?"
Ok.
I'm really upset about this right now. You can't be more wrong in any way. I said it was a quick summary and other reads will follow.
I spent the whole day phase to read posts and try to figure the shit out of the game. I gave a quick overview for 6/18 people and continue to state my impressions of everyone in the game before the day ends. And here you are accusing me of going after easy targets.
There are more than enough reasons to lynch me. Stop making up bullshit like this.
EzekelRAGE
Member
What if the Holy Ward ability belonged to a god? With that said, I think Gor is the owner of teh Holy Ward ability and it doesnt do what he says it does, which may be why it is ninja this night phase.
Fake Edit: What if Holy Ward belongs to Persi and Gor is using it as cover?
OceanicAir
Member
Having two killing roles doesn't exactly seem to make a whole lot of sense for mafia either and if he isn't mafia, then I'm not concerned. Also how else would he be able to guess that there would be two kills last night? The power isn't done by a god either as it was targeted by feng/zipped. So either mafia has two pretty much guaranteed kills since they know who isn't mafia (plus a possible switcher/absorber) or town has a one shot vig (which isn't guaranteed to hit scum) a one shot roleblock and doctor (which isn't guaranteed to hit/save anybody). I'm inclined to believe Gorlak here for now.
I also think that it was pretty obvious that Crimson was a protector from the mafia perspective which is why he died.
Hmm... it's entirely possible. I haven't forgotten the fact that Gorlak conveniently only rolled out his ability names after Zipped mentioned them in Day 2. There's also that vig shot and the second kill. Gorlak said he wasn't going to fire it, apparently did so anyhow, and immediately jumped on the idea that it was redirected. Something about that doesn't sit right with me.
Ezekel let's be honest: nothing I say will convince you that I'm town. But I am town. I'll try to answer your questions one last time.
Your questions:
Why your suspicious? You didn't talk about lp in D2.
Day 1 Darryl = scum? #264, meta reason thinking that's his style.
Why should I roleblock? I had to decide between two powers. Vig-shot seemed more powerful for catching scum last night.
Crimson? I don't know.
The first is tiresome. [if scum had hit a god n1 -> no nk, I reveal self-heal, but they didn't target me -> it must have been a god they targeted]
Reluctant to claim? because claiming early is something I'll always be reluctant to do. number of shots reveal? I don't know. I just did.
Second priestess? That's something that I corrected later, two different scenarios in my head, I'm too lazy to look for that post.
Your questions:
Why your suspicious? You didn't talk about lp in D2.
WTF...
That last post was the only time I talked about the ability. I wasn't convinced, I thought give scum a reason to wifom and maybe they won't use it if they have it.
Day 1 Darryl = scum? #264, meta reason thinking that's his style.
Why should I roleblock? I had to decide between two powers. Vig-shot seemed more powerful for catching scum last night.
Crimson? I don't know.
The first is tiresome. [if scum had hit a god n1 -> no nk, I reveal self-heal, but they didn't target me -> it must have been a god they targeted]
Reluctant to claim? because claiming early is something I'll always be reluctant to do. number of shots reveal? I don't know. I just did.
Second priestess? That's something that I corrected later, two different scenarios in my head, I'm too lazy to look for that post.
If you use a power and somebody else than your intended target is affected by it, what would be your conclusion? The worst case happened obviously.
Crimson being the Doctor or a Roleblocker was completely obvious from the moment he said he had a very good reason to believe Gorlak was scum. And then Gorlak claimed the Holy Ward command and he backed off. I can't think of a Mafia team that wouldn't take the obvious shot there.
I actually feel bad, because I think I may have unintentionally drawn attention to it and gotten him killed. : \
Yeah, you have a point.
!!!
So Seath received god-killing instructions on N1. Oceanic on N2. I'm assuming that the two gods are Kola and Pepsi and are aligned with town and scum respectively. It follows that Town needs a way to kill Pepsi and Scum needs a way to kill Kola. So the instructions would have been sent to one follower of Kome and one follower of Pep.
I think either Seath or OA is scum. I'm going to re-read both and give a more informed opinion on who it could be later.
Hahaha, I don't know why but they way you announced this made me laugh XD
So Zipped and Sophia are confirmed. Feng is also pretty close in my eyes. So out of a pool of 10 players, at least 4 are scum. With a little reasoning and logic I'm confident that we will be able to lynch scum today.
I see a lot of discussion revolving around Gorlak. He's interesting. I've been cautiously believing him because so far there don't seem to be any contradictions. But on second thought there are a lot of things he has said that may/may not be true:
1. He has 1-shot Holy Ward, Sacrament and Martyrize. We don't know for sure that they are one shots. We also don't know for sure that he used Martyrize. We do know that the second kill had to have come from somewhere, and Gorlak is claiming it's a vig kill.
2. He claims he was redirected by the 'targets' command. This one is kind of tenuous to me. 'Targets' is vague and I don't want to delve too deeply into it in case it's a town PR. On D2 Gorlak jumps to conclusions that it's a redirect and then continues the story at the start of D3. I mean, maybe he's right, but I have to exercise some caution here. The only way we know for sure that he was 'redirected' is by seeing Gorlak's flip. I don't think Gorlak is scum, but a part of me wonders if he is a SK...If he truly is a 1-shot vig though there should only be one death N3. So I think there is no harm in not lynching him, except that if we do have two town deaths again tonight and we mislynch today, we will be in lylo D4.
Thing is, why would Gorlak claim to have gone for LP at the start of today? That's why he seems town to me.
I have a lot more thinking to do.
Unfortunately I'm busy today and this weekend, but I will try to make at least 1 post every 24 hours.
Something about the disjointed and disconnected nature of Seath's quotes there is giving me a bad feeling. A lot of the selected quotes are taken out of context of Day 2 as a whole, especially that quote of Darryl's there (he later flipped his entire reads around, acknowledging that Gorlak was probably a priestess, but him being scum was impossible to tell at the time.)