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[Instigator]

You can't do that.

Too late.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7264903.stm

Turkey is preparing to publish a document that represents a revolutionary reinterpretation of Islam - and a controversial and radical modernisation of the religion.

The Quraan is perfect and to this day has yet to be proven otherwise.

So Earth appeared before stars and science is just wrong?

 

[crazy monkey]

Talk about left field and missing the point.

I don't think I can really speak for Nazir in this respect, but even if he and I were of that opinion, how does it change anything? Or the argument over violence for that matter?

See, if I were Muslim and I were facing a guy like Nazir, I would counter him the right way. If he claimed some specific Qu'ran excerpts suggest violence, I would find every hadith and other commentary talking about proper context of every single one of those excerpts. We'd most likely disagree, but what else is new?

If he'd fall back on generalities saying jihad is violence, then I'd say something along the lines that jihad is ultimately a struggle, the greater struggle within but also a struggle for an external cause and it does not need to and shouldn't be violent. The issue of those using jihad of the sword would be tricky, but I could claim that they ultimately tarnish Islam's image and it would be rightful jihad to oppose them. Nazir probably would not buy it, but I could always say this is what I was taught and this is what I believe to be true Islam.

To me, this sounds easy. Of course Nazir would probably hold his ground and still claim Islam is violent but to paraphrase Zapages: 'So what?' Agree to disagree and move on to the next point!

Thanks for taking time to answer.

 

[Atrus]

Look at all religions, I have yet to see a religion is not violent... All religions' history have violence in them. The thing is that why did the violence occur. In Islam, the violence occurred in form self defense. That folks here posted before yet Nizar keeps on ignoring that and tries to find tangents.

As for discussing: Hadji and few others got banned just for stating what is in the Holy Quran... So we have to be careful.

They got banned because they supported it, and what they supported was offensive to human beings. Personally, I do recall myself objecting to one ban on the basis of them stating the truth. Only because a religious person is bound to what they consider 'the truth' and so being forced to answer the question left him little choice but to get himself banned or turning on his religious belief. What it does emphasize is what Nizar is in fact trying to show, that the ideology reinforces violence and misanthropy as a basis of doctrine. People are right in that this isn't limited to Islam, but that is not the topic at hand.

That other religious ideologies are violent doesn't make them comparable to the same degree. In some religions, the adherents will take themselves out through immolation of some sort. In others, there's literally no end to the bloodshed they will release on other people. One poses a significantly larger danger than the other.

Just because other religions do so is also not a valid excuse. Some religions sacrifice children as a central right to their beliefs. Does that make the practice acceptable?

The argument of 'self-defense' is also ambigious. Not only would accounts of such be whitewashed but I'd like to point out that self-defense as termed in Islam has a rather wide meaning. I believe several people here (and elsewhere since it's a common argument) tried to justify executing apostates as a form of self-defense, and that Islam is a sort of state and therefore apostasy is equal to treason.

 

[Zapages]

Too late.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7264903.stm





So Earth appeared before stars and science is just wrong?

I've read upon them... They are coming to the same conclusion as other scholars are and nothing revolutionary change is being done... Its for the first time ever under a Republic of Turkey that they are publishing papers on hadiths and the Holy Quran in a substantial manner...

Move along nothing to see type of thing. :lol

 

[The Other One]

So Earth appeared before stars and science is just wrong?

I'm not a scientist nor am I interested in the field so it would be no use going into that. But out of interest could you show me where in the Quraan it says God created the stars after he created Earth?

A reference will do, I'll check the original arabic over the translation.

 

[Kinitari]

The Quraan is perfect and to this day has yet to be proven otherwise. Like I mentioned before, that link that was posted on youtube has definitely been refuted. Go to a Muslim scholar who is an expert in the language and it will be refuted by him. There is no point debating it here nor trying to find a explanation as none of us our experts in the language.

I'm sorry, but in what context is the Quraan perfect? Another Ex-Muslim throwing in his hat here.

Consider this - The Quraan is the message of God - it is what [he/it/she] wanted to use to 'spread the word'.

Now - I assume there is only 1 -proper- way to interpret the Quraan, the way God intends, correct?

Now if the Quraan was perfect, it would be literally impossible to interpret it in any other way than it is intended. If it is God's will, and he is all powerful, there is nothing that would change that, so the options are.

1. The Quraan was meant to be interpreted in many different ways, including being used to justify violent terrorism. According to God's will.

2. God is not all knowing, and did not know that Quraan would be misinterpreted.

3. God is not all powerful, and could not prevent it from being misinterpreted.

4. God is neither all knowing nor all powerful.

5. God (in the way that is described in the Abrahamic religions) is non-existant, and the Quraan is man-made.

 

[Instigator]

I'm not a scientist nor am I interested in the field so it would be no use going into that. But out of interest could you show me where in the Quraan it says God created the stars after he created Earth?

A reference will do, I'll check the original arabic over the translation.

You only joined this thread today? Here's what was going on yesterday:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=17094380&postcount=2701

 

[crazy monkey]

So Earth appeared before stars and science is just wrong?

yes, I believe that now what? lets have some smile face here :lol :lol :lol Oh shit look at that stupid crazy monkey he should not live here. He is against science, now that is out of way.

Earth was not in this universe at that time or maybe universe definition is different. I am not scientist so I can't answer. If some one believes or not believes in religion because of science than its wrong.

I respect him for what he believes in. For the turkey thing did that book came out? I have not seen it.

 

[Anaxagoras]

Since most the members in this thread that are debating for Islam do not know how to argue logically, I was forced to write this post to instruct you on how to prove my arguments false:

I have proven that Islam is a violent religion.

In order to prove me wrong you will have to prove that Islam doesn't preach on violence.

Justifying the violence in the Quran doesn't make Islam nonviolent.

Pointing out that other religions are violent too doesn't make Islam a nonviolent religion.

Claiming that an antiviolent religion is a stupid one doesn't make Islam a nonviolent religion.

Pointing out that the Quran discuss violence because its a guide to life and that Islam is a life style does not make Islam a nonviolent religion.

Claiming that violence being discussed in the Quran is a good/bad thing does not make Islam a nonviolent religion.

Claiming that the argument that Islam is a violent religion has no value at all does not make Islam a nonviolent religion.

Pointing out peaceful verses out of the Quran doesn't make Islam a nonviolent one.

Pointing out that Islam has the same God as the other Abrahamic religions doesn't make Islam a non violent religion.

Claiming that Islam is the true religion or the religion of God and therefore can not be considered violent does not make Islam nonviolent.

Claiming that Jesus and Hitler are violent too doesn't make Islam a nonviolent reeligion.

I have proven that according to the Quran the Earth is older than the stars and proven that according to science the stars are older than the Earth.

In order to prove me wrong on this one you have to either prove that I have misinterpreted the Quranic verse or prove that according to science Earth is older than the stars.

Pointing out a number of similarities between Quranic creationism and modern day scientific discoveries does not disprove my argument.

Providing me with links to websites that claim that Earth and the rest of the universe have the same age without any further reasoning, scientific research, evidence or reliable sources doesn't disprove my argument.

Pointing out that science changes and what is scientifically true today might not necessarily be true in the future does not prove my argument to be false.

Discussing Dark matter and how religion and cosmology are similar does not disprove my argument.

Discussing the credibility of wikipedia does not disprove my argument.

I have proven that faith is an unreliable tool to reach the true religion.

In order to prove me wrong on this argument you will have to prove that faith is a reliable tool to the true religion.

Claiming that God has the power and will to choose whom he wants to the true religion does not disprove my argument.

I have proven that a grammatical error exists in the Quran.

In order to prove me wrong on this argument you will have to prove that it is not a grammatical error.

Claiming that Arabic originates from the Quran and thus Arabic grammar is false and the Quran is correct does not disprove my argument.

Pointing out that such matters can not be discussed on forums but have to be discussed with Arabic grammar experts doesn't disprove my argument.

Pointing out that youtube is not a reliable source will not disprove my argument, for the video I linked to is not the source, the Quran is, the video just explains why it is a grammatical error in English.

Other don'ts in this discussion:
Call me single dimensioned.
Claim that I live in a closed world of my own.
Point out that I was brought up in Saudi Arabia.
Point out that I don't know whether God exists or not.
Claiming that my intention is to disrespect Islam and Muslims.
Claiming that I am not listening to your arguments.
And finally pointing out that Ramadan starts in 9 days.
For non of the mentioned above disproves my arguments in anyway.

Now you either start arguing logically or I will have to start ignoring the unserious and irrelevant responses, for I do not have all the time in the world to educate people on the internet on how to reason properly.

 

[Zapages]

I'm sorry, but in what context is the Quraan perfect? Another Ex-Muslim throwing in his hat here.

Consider this - The Quraan is the message of God - it is what [he/it/she] wanted to use to 'spread the word'.

Now - I assume there is only 1 -proper- way to interpret the Quraan, the way God intends, correct?

Now if the Quraan was perfect, it would be literally impossible to interpret it in any other way than it is intended. If it is God's will, and he is all powerful, there is nothing that would change that, so the options are.

1. The Quraan was meant to be interpreted in many different ways, including being used to justify violent terrorism. According to God's will.

2. God is not all knowing, and did not know that Quraan would be misinterpreted.

3. God is not all powerful, and could not prevent it from being misinterpreted.

4. God is neither all knowing or all powerful.

5. God (in the way that is described in the Abrahamic religions) is non-existant, and the Quraan is man-made.

The Holy Quran is interrupted in many ways because its for all time and for everyone.

Someone who is Christian, Jew, Hindu, or any other religious person uses their religious texts to attack or cause war... A perfect example that came to me are the Kamakaize pilots...

 

[crazy monkey]

I'm sorry, but in what context is the Quraan perfect? Another Ex-Muslim throwing in his hat here.

Consider this - The Quraan is the message of God - it is what [he/it/she] wanted to use to 'spread the word'.

Now - I assume there is only 1 -proper- way to interpret the Quraan, the way God intends, correct?

Now if the Quraan was perfect, it would be literally impossible to interpret it in any other way than it is intended. If it is God's will, and he is all powerful, there is nothing that would change that, so the options are.

1. The Quraan was meant to be interpreted in many different ways, including being used to justify violent terrorism. According to God's will.

2. God is not all knowing, and did not know that Quraan would be misinterpreted.

3. God is not all powerful, and could not prevent it from being misinterpreted.

4. God is neither all knowing or all powerful.

5. God (in the way that is described in the Abrahamic religions) is non-existant, and the Quraan is man-made.

humans interpret quran . humans will make mistake its written in quran

 

[Kinitari]

The Holy Quran is interrupted in many ways because its for all time and for everyone.

Someone who is Christian, Jew, Hindu, or any other religious person uses their religious texts to attack or cause war... A perfect example that came to me are the Kamakaize pilots...

Huh? Do you mean translated? It can be translated and still be impossible to 'misinterpret' if it was God's will - or are you saying God could not prevent that from happening?

Why do people think we only pick on Islam - have you not been on Neogaf before? "He did it too." is not a valid argument.

And I don't think you know much about the Kamikaze pilots - you should probably wiki them or something. You're probably thinking of the Crusades.

humans interpret quran . humans will make mistake its written in quran

Are you saying God would be unable to make a Quran that can't be misinterpreted?

 

[Zapages]

I respect him for what he believes in. For the turkey thing did that book came out? I have not seen it.

Its old news man... I think we even discussed it in this thread or somewhere on Neogaf a while ago... But in the revolutionary things were not too different then the what scholars have established. BBC likes to spice the news a bit...

 

[Zapages]

Huh? Do you mean translated? It can be translated and still be impossible to 'misinterpret' if it was God's will - or are you saying God could not prevent that from happening?

Why do people think we only pick on Islam - have you not been on Neogaf before? "He did it too." is not a valid argument.

And I don't think you know much about the Kamikaze pilots - you should probably wiki them or something. You're probably thinking of the Crusades.

The Holy Quran is very flowery and the essence of the meaning is in Arabic. No matter what language you translate the Holy Quran to there's always something missing in the meaning from the old Arabic.

As for the Kamikazi thing, I remember from history class that they were doing to for their emperor which they equate to God. naisbillah... or something along those lines.

 

[Anaxagoras]

The Holy Quran is very flowery and the essence of the meaning is in Arabic. No matter what language you translate the Holy Quran to there's always something missing in the meaning from the old Arabic.

Sounds to me like god made a mistake there.

He should have either created humans in a way that they all speak Arabic or made its context translatable to different languages without loosing the meaning.

 

[Anaxagoras]

humans interpret quran . humans will make mistake its written in quran

Still, its Gods mistake that he made humans capable of misinterpreting his holy book.

 

[Kinitari]

The Holy Quran is very flowery and the essence of the meaning is in Arabic. No matter what language you translate the Holy Quran to there's always something missing in the meaning from the old Arabic.

As for the Kamikazi thing, I remember from history class that they were doing to for their emperor which they equate to God. naisbillah... or something along those lines.

You're not really answering my question ^^.

I'll put up the list again.

1. The Quraan was meant to be interpreted in many different ways, including being used to justify violent terrorism. According to God's will.

2. God is not all knowing, and did not know that Quraan would be misinterpreted.

3. God is not all powerful, and could not prevent it from being misinterpreted.

4. God is neither all knowing or all powerful.

5. God (in the way that is described in the Abrahamic religions) is non-existant, and the Quraan is man-made.

It pretty much has to be one of these 5. If God wanted it so that there was no way for there to be mistranslation errors - it would be completely in his power to make it so. As he is all powerful. If God did not want people to use the Quran to justify some of the things that are being justified now - he would have known before/after/whenever - as he knows all things at all times - at least that is the whole "All knowing" and "All powerful" talk I hear.

 

[Zapages]

Sounds to me like god made a mistake there.

He should have either created humans in a way that they all speak Arabic or made its context translatable to different languages without loosing the meaning.

See its the humans problem for not translating it properly... Also how classic english, german, or any other language are different then what we speak right now. So you should be blaming the human here.

 

[Anaxagoras]

Here is another question for your Almighty God, can he create a rock so heavy that he himself can't lift it up?

and while I am at it, Adam and Eve's children, how did they have children?

you know what, I will add this one too..

You do not believe that the universe could have created its self on its own, and therefore you believe that God created the universe, but the question is who created God? and how can you believe that God can create himself but the universe can't?

 

[Anaxagoras]

See its the humans problem for not translating it properly... Also how classic english, german, or any other language are different then what we speak right now. So you should be blaming the human here.

Is God Almighty? all capable? and fair?

Then why did he create humans in a way that they speak different languages and sent his book to them in only one language?

 

[Instigator]

Can you imagine a holy book, written to be as difficult to misinterpret as possible?

And you shall walk the path, the path meaning strictly following my precise words revealed on paragraph 4637 through 4646. And not just in any book, but the original golden plated book given to my last prophet Japush at 467, year of the tiger. Accept no copy or translated version, too risky. And yes, when I talk about all virgins on paragraph 4644, I really mean all virgins, literally having had no sexual relations of any kind, all virgins that ever was and ever could be.

I predict very few followers. Though I am sure they'd say it's most beautiful, flawless poetry they've ever read.

 

[Kinitari]

See its the humans problem for not translating it properly... Also how classic english, german, or any other language are different then what we speak right now. So you should be blaming the human here.

Are you dodging, or do you really not understand my question?

 

[Anaxagoras]

Can you imagine a holy book, written to be as difficult to misinterpret as possible?

And you shall walk the path, the path meaning strictly following my precise words revealed on paragraph 4637 through 4646. And not just in any book, but the original golden plated book given to my last prophet Japush at 467, year of the tiger. Accept no copy or translated version, too risky. And yes, when I talk about all virgins on paragraph 4644, I really mean all virgins, literally having had no sexual relations of any kind, all virgins that ever was and ever could be.

I predict very few followers. Though I am sure they'd say it's most beautiful, flawless poetry they've ever read.

Beautiful, I like, what do I have to do to get accepted?

 

[Prine]

When i was trying to buy a book with the englsih translation of the Quran it took sometime to find the right one. Academics that translated the Quran said it cannot be translated but only interpreted, and if you want to understand the source you need to learn arabic. There is no book like it.

But its classical arabic that no one speaks any more, which makes it even harder. But, Ramadan in fast approaching, would be the perfect time to read i guess.

 

[Zapages]

Is God Almighty? all capable? and fair?

Then why did he create humans in a way that they speak different languages and sent his book to them in only one language?

God sent messengers to all different people... But all of their message got corrupted by the people.

"For We assuredly sent amongst every People an apostle, (with the Command), "Serve God, and eschew Evil": of the People were some whom God guided, and some on whom error became inevitably (established). So travel through the earth, and see what was the end of those who denied (the Truth). (The Noble Quran, 16:36)"

"To every people (was sent) an apostle: when their apostle comes (before them), the matter will be judged between them with justice, and they will not be wronged. (The Noble Quran, 10:47)"

"We sent not an apostle except (to teach) in the language of his (own) people, in order to make (things) clear to them. Now God leaves straying those whom He pleases and guides whom He pleases: and He is Exalted in power, full of Wisdom. (The Noble Quran, 14:4)"

"Verily We have sent thee in truth, as a bearer of glad tidings, and as a warner: and there never was a people, without a warner having lived among them (in the past). (The Noble Quran, 35:24)"

"We did send apostles before thee, and appointed for them wives and children: and it was never the part of an apostle to bring a sign except as God permitted (or commanded). For each period is a Book (revealed). (The Noble Quran, 13:38)"

 

[Anaxagoras]

When i was trying to buy a book with the englsih translation of the Quran it took sometime to find the right one. Academics that translated the Quran said it cannot be translated but only interpreted, and if you want to understand the source you need to learn arabic.

But its classical arabic that no one speaks any more, which makes it even harder. But, Ramadan in fast approaching, would be the perfect time to read i guess.

and how is what you are contributing to this thread supposed to disprove any argument in here? or are you just dumping facts about the Quran in this thread?

 

[Kinitari]

Zapages isn't answering my question

 

[crazy monkey]

Here is another question for your Almighty God, can he create a rock so heavy that he himself can't lift it up?

and while I am at it, Adam and Eve's children, how did they have children?

What do you mean by how they had children? how old are you?

You do not believe that the universe could have created its self on its own, and therefore you believe that God created the universe, but the question is who created God? and how can you believe that God can create himself but the universe can't?

from wikipedia

Allah is the only real supreme being, all-powerful and all knowing Creator, Sustainer, Ordainer, and Judge of the universe. Islam puts a heavy emphasis on the conceptualization of God as strictly singular (tawhid).God is unique (wahid) and inherently one (ahad), all-merciful and omnipotent

According to the Islamic teachings, God exists without a place.[8] According to the Qur'an, "No vision can grasp Him, but His grasp is over all vision. God is above all comprehension, yet is acquainted with all things" (Qur'an 6:103)[2]

God in Islam is not only majestic and sovereign, but also a personal God: According to the Qur'an, God is nearer to a person than his jugular vein.

 

[Anaxagoras]

God sent messengers to all different people... But all of their message got corrupted by the people.

"For We assuredly sent amongst every People an apostle, (with the Command), "Serve God, and eschew Evil": of the People were some whom God guided, and some on whom error became inevitably (established). So travel through the earth, and see what was the end of those who denied (the Truth). (The Noble Quran, 16:36)"

"To every people (was sent) an apostle: when their apostle comes (before them), the matter will be judged between them with justice, and they will not be wronged. (The Noble Quran, 10:47)"

"We sent not an apostle except (to teach) in the language of his (own) people, in order to make (things) clear to them. Now God leaves straying those whom He pleases and guides whom He pleases: and He is Exalted in power, full of Wisdom. (The Noble Quran, 14:4)"

"Verily We have sent thee in truth, as a bearer of glad tidings, and as a warner: and there never was a people, without a warner having lived among them (in the past). (The Noble Quran, 35:24)"

"We did send apostles before thee, and appointed for them wives and children: and it was never the part of an apostle to bring a sign except as God permitted (or commanded). For each period is a Book (revealed). (The Noble Quran, 13:38)"

God must have either really dropped the ball on the Scandinavian region or sent a very lousy prophet that have left no remark what so ever on the Scandinavian region, unlike Mohammad for example who pretty much did a damn good job.

This pretty much means that God is not almighty, fair or both.

 

[crazy monkey]

Still, its Gods mistake that he made humans capable of misinterpreting his holy book.

If Humans don't make mistake, they wouldn't be human

 

[Anaxagoras]

Zapages isn't answering my question

Were you really expecting him to?

 

[Prine]

and how is what you are contributing to this thread supposed to disprove any argument in here? or are you just dumping facts about the Quran in this thread?

To disprove something would mean i've taken what you posted as fact, your revelations are twisted as much as the answers you feel your getting. Im not here for you, but to learn more about Islam.

 

[Instigator]

I've never had anyone come up to me to show me the beauty of Islam (except for a member of the Nation of Islam who was more interested in my black friend I was hanging with). So if I had no prior interest in theology, I'd probably know nothing of Islam today. Allah's plan to spread the word is very flawed and he had 1400 years to get it right.

Since I can't read Arabic, I remember looking at a Qu'ran in French. It appeared very messy, dense and hard to read. I doubt it's different for native Arabic speakers. Again, another flaw...

 

[Anaxagoras]

What do you mean by how they had children? how old are you?

Tell me how many children did Adam and Eve have, what are their names? and what sex are they, boys or girls?

My second question:

Can your God make something so heavy that he himself can't lift it?

from wikipedia

Allah is the only real supreme being, all-powerful and all knowing Creator, Sustainer, Ordainer, and Judge of the universe. Islam puts a heavy emphasis on the conceptualization of God as strictly singular (tawhid).God is unique (wahid) and inherently one (ahad), all-merciful and omnipotent

According to the Islamic teachings, God exists without a place.[8] According to the Qur'an, "No vision can grasp Him, but His grasp is over all vision. God is above all comprehension, yet is acquainted with all things" (Qur'an 6:103)[2]

God in Islam is not only majestic and sovereign, but also a personal God: According to the Qur'an, God is nearer to a person than his jugular vein.

Did you not read my question?

Why can't you believe that the universe created its self on its own just like you believe that your God did create himself?

 

[Anaxagoras]

To disprove something would mean i've taken what you posted as fact, your revelations are twisted as much as the answers you feel your getting. Im not here for you, but to learn more about Islam.

easy to claim, but is it as easy to prove?
can you prove any wholes in my arguments?
can you prove that my arguments are false?

 

[Zapages]

Zapages isn't answering my question

anyone else can answer you man... As I don't have the time right now to deal with your question because you don't feel like I would be able to give you an acceptable answer to you due to you will dismiss it like my first answer.

 

[Kinitari]

anyone else can answer you man... As I don't have the time right now to deal with your question because you don't feel like I would be able to give you an acceptable answer to you due to you will dismiss it like my first answer.

Well I mean - you didn't really answer my question. I'll make it even simpler.

Did God know that the Quran would one day be mistranslated/misinterpreted and used to justify things like Terrorism, and Misogyny (hate/mistreatment of women)?

If he knew, was it in his power to prevent it from happening?

If it was in his power, then he let it happen.

 

[Zapages]

I've never had anyone come up to me to show me the beauty of Islam (except for a member of the Nation of Islam who was more interested in my black friend I was hanging with). So if I had no prior interest in theology, I'd probably know nothing of Islam today. Allah's plan to spread the word is very flawed and he had 1400 years to get it right.

Since I can't read Arabic, I remember looking at a Qu'ran in French. It appeared very messy, dense and hard to read. I doubt it's different for native Arabic speakers. Again, another flaw...

The Holy Quran is suppose to be dense... The best way to go about it find a reputable translation and go from there...

 

[Anaxagoras]

anyone else can answer you man... As I don't have the time right now to deal with your question because you don't feel like I would be able to give you an acceptable answer to you due to you will dismiss it like my first answer.

That was not a relevant answer.

Its like someone asking you if David is capable of riding a bike?
and you go and answer him that bikes are supposed to be ridden on the left side of the road.

 

[The Other One]

And finally pointing out that Ramadan starts in 9 days.
.

I can point out Ramadaan begins in 9 days if I wish to do so. This is the official Islaam thread, not the-debate-you thread.

p.s past 12 here, so possibly 8 more days left.

Regarding your claim about the Earth being created before the stars, you are trying to argue your point using the big bang theory which is a theory. And it might be a good idea to have a scientific debate with a Muslim scientist regarding it.

 

[crazy monkey]

Are you saying God would be unable to make a Quran that can't be misinterpreted?

you can interpret it as you want. There will be misinterpretation always . Is God suppose to tell you everything about everything? than you will complain oh no I can't use my brain.

 

[Zapages]

Well I mean - you didn't really answer my question. I'll make it even simpler.

Did God know that the Quran would one day be mistranslated/misinterpreted and used to justify things like Terrorism, and Misogyny (hate/mistreatment of women)?

If he knew, was it in his power to prevent it from happening?

If it was in his power, then he let it happen.

This answers your question:

"We sent not an apostle except (to teach) in the language of his (own) people, in order to make (things) clear to them. Now God leaves straying those whom He pleases and guides whom He pleases: and He is Exalted in power, full of Wisdom. (The Noble Quran, 14:4)"

God know is all knowing.

 

[Kinitari]

you can interpret it as you want. There will be misinterpretation always . Is God suppose to tell you everything about everything? than you will complain oh no I can't use my brain.

Who said anything about God telling me everything about everything? He should have just had the book written better, and it would be impossible for crazy people to 'take it out of context' and use it to justify their ill means.

 

[Kinitari]

This answers your question:



God know is all knowing.

There is argument and misinterpretation even among people who speak Arabic. How many different 'kinds' of Islam are there? Sunni, Shia, Wahabbism.

 

[Anaxagoras]

I can point out Ramadaan begins in 9 days if I wish to do so. This is the official Islaam thread, not the-debate-you thread.

I didn't say that you are not allowed nor did I say that this is a discuss me thread.

I was just educating the people who don't know how to argue that that too doesn't disprove my argument.

p.s past 12 here, so possibly 8 more days left.

Regarding your claim about the Earth being created before the stars, you are trying to argue your point using the big bang theory which is a theory. And it might be a good idea to have a scientific debate with a Muslim scientist regarding it.

the difference between a theory and a fact:

A fact is an objective and verifiable observation.

A theory is a conceptual framework that explains existing observations and predicts new ones according to the best possible abilities of the latest scientific research.

Just because something is not directly observable does not in anyway make it less true than something directly observed.

Many people do not differentiate between a theory and a hypothesis, so here is the definition of a hypothesis:

A hypothesis is is a working assumption that has not yet been tested.

One more thing, it is based on evidence unlike your Quranic creationism.

 

[Prine]

easy to claim, but is it as easy to prove?
can you prove any wholes in my arguments?
can you prove that my arguments are false?

Mr Phd was a nutcase remember? Thats your reply to him... if you want i will put you in touch with people that you can debate with. They are not gamers so they dont have an account here, they have already answered everything you have mentioned here "the rock" argumanrt being the most obvious one.

Though i cannot articulate myself as well as they do, so i'll let them answer you directly.

 

[crazy monkey]

Tell me how many children did Adam and Eve have, what are their names? and what sex are they, boys or girls?

Allaah allowed Adam (peace be upon him) to marry his daughters to his sons for necessity. Every couple used to have a boy and a girl. Hence, he married the girl of one couple to the boy of another. This is said by Suddi regarding what has been narrated by Abu Maalik and Abu Salih, from Ibn ‘Abbas, by Murrah from Ibn Mas‘ood and by other companions of the Prophet (peace be upon him) that Adam did not have (in his grandchildren) a baby boy unless it was accompanied by a girl, so he married the male of a couple to the female of another, and the female of a couple to the male of another

My second question:

Can your God make something so heavy that he himself can't lift it?

seriously, how old are you? For those who say I can't answer Nizar question, if this type question are being asked than no need to answer.

Did you not read my question?

Why can't you believe that the universe created its self on its own just like you believe that your God did create himself?

I already answer that. You want to believe my answer believe it if not enjoy in what you believe.

 

[The Other One]

Well I mean - you didn't really answer my question. I'll make it even simpler.

Did God know that the Quran would one day be mistranslated/misinterpreted and used to justify things like Terrorism, and Misogyny (hate/mistreatment of women)?

If he knew, was it in his power to prevent it from happening?

If it was in his power, then he let it happen.

Yes God did know the Quran would know one day would be mistranslated etc.

Yes it was in his power to prevent it happening but he also gives humans free will so it is the humans who decided to misinterpret using their free will.

Yes he let is happen, but the point is, God is the all wise and sometimes he does things which we see no wisdom in right now but looking back you will see the wisdom. Say for example you lost your job. Now at the time you would perceive it as a bad thing but shortly after you lost your job, you were offered a job with better pay and one you enjoyed more. When you look back a few months down the line, you would see the wisdom in having lost that job.

 

[Zapages]

There is argument and misinterpretation even among people who speak Arabic. How many different 'kinds' of Islam are there? Sunni, Shia, Wahabbism.

Sunni and Wahabism are the same. Wahabism is not a sect, its more strict form of Islam that started as good thing but then everything turned sour(IMHO) as they infused too much of old culture of the arab penisula that was present 1400 years aog... Shia and Sunni divide is based upon on the who should be the leader of Muslims, ie Caliph... But the basic teachings of Islam are the same.

 

[Atrus]

God sent messengers to all different people... But all of their message got corrupted by the people.

I'm curious. Who were the messengers to the Australian Aborigines? The Meso-American and Andean civilizations? The Plains Indians? The Inuit?

If you do not know who they were, how can you be sure that these people were sent messengers?