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Official Smashing Pumpkins thread

F

Fare Godmace

Member
Tiberius is the only song I've liked so far, and I guess Drum + Fife is growing on me a bit… From the samples, I might enjoy Anti-Hero too, but I don't have high hopes from this album. What's up with those lyrics?

Oh well, back to waiting for the Machina reissue…

EDIT: Also not surprised at the new SP trademark shitty mixing. Low guitars, way too high vocals. SMH Billy.
 
F

FrenchMovieTheme

Member
Fare Godmace said:
Tiberius is the only song I've liked so far, and I guess Drum + Fife is growing on me a bit… From the samples, I might enjoy Anti-Hero too, but I don't have high hopes from this album. What's up with those lyrics?

Oh well, back to waiting for the Machina reissue...
Click to expand...

His vocal production is fucking awful
 
D

Deified Data

Banned
This is the most surreal news story I've ever seen. What is going on.

B3ajtj8IcAA2CWH.jpg
 
F

Fleet_of_Foot

Member
You can listen to the whole album on iTunes Radio this week.

Man, I don't know. If I didn't already have three of the songs, I might cancel my preorder. This is not what I wanted. I can't go into more detail than that after just one listen but it's just not doing anything for me.
 
B

BigJonsson

Member
Fleet_of_Foot said:
You can listen to the whole album on iTunes Radio this week.

Man, I don't know. If I didn't already have three of the songs, I might cancel my preorder. This is not what I wanted. I can't go into more detail than that after just one listen but it's just not doing anything for me.
Click to expand...


I can't find the stream on itunes?

http://pitchfork.com/news/57671-stream-the-smashing-pumpkins-new-album-monuments-to-an-elegy/ found it....ok that isn't getting me to the stream either........maybe it's US only?
 
I

Infinitemadness

Member
Fleet_of_Foot said:
You can listen to the whole album on iTunes Radio this week.

Man, I don't know. If I didn't already have three of the songs, I might cancel my preorder. This is not what I wanted. I can't go into more detail than that after just one listen but it's just not doing anything for me.
Click to expand...


Sad to hear. I'll give it a listen but with the exception of Tiberius which I absolutely love and Being Beige which I like...the rest doesn't sound so hot.

Oh well, maybe next album (ha).
 
F

FrenchMovieTheme

Member
i listened to the album. i listen to every album 5 times from beginning to end before making a final judgement on it but right now this is pretty iffy. there is some good stuff on here, but there is also some trash after first listen.

some of the lyrics are just awful. i dont think "im gonna love you 101%" was topped but there is some pretty bad shit on here. billy used to be a pretty interesting lyricist but some of this sounds like it belongs in a fucking nickleback song
 
O

Oreoleo

Member
I don't even mind the lyrics so much. It's a solid album. Nothing eh.. MONUMENTAL, but nothing totally cringe worthy either. The brevity of the album definitely works in its favor.

I'm reminded of a King of the Hill quote:
HANK (reading Bobby's report card): C. C plus. Two B minuses. You really did it, son. You set realistic goals and you reached them. Way to go.

It seems like, at least with the last couple albums, Billy was trying to recreate the magic or je ne sais quois of Siamese Dream and Mellon Collie and you could hear the album falling short as you were listening to it. But with MTAE the comparison to older albums isn't really there so it's easier to judge (more favorably) on its own merits.
 
F

FrenchMovieTheme

Member
Oreoleo said:
I don't even mind the lyrics so much. It's a solid album. Nothing eh.. MONUMENTAL, but nothing totally cringe worthy either. The brevity of the album definitely works in its favor.

I'm reminded of a King of the Hill quote:
HANK (reading Bobby's report card): C. C plus. Two B minuses. You really did it, son. You set realistic goals and you reached them. Way to go.

It seems like, at least with the last couple albums, Billy was trying to recreate the magic or je ne sais quois of Siamese Dream and Mellon Collie and you could hear the album falling short as you were listening to it. But with MTAE the comparison to older albums isn't really there so it's easier to judge (more favorably) on its own merits.
Click to expand...

Just sucks to have to make concessions on a once great band.
 
M

Macam

Banned
The album isn't terrible or anything, but it feels very different than what I would've expected coming off of Oceania.

It feels more like Billy's solo work and a bunch of b-sides than a cohesive album to me. The drums and lyrics are probably the flattest they've been to date (Dorian is what, two lines repeated at nauseum?), which is a shame, but it's still got some decent melodies and hooks.
 
1

120v

Member
I think it's a pretty solid album. unlike zeitgeist and oceania it seems to throw away any pretenses of having the "smashing pumpkins" label on it and does its own 80s metal/new wave kind of thing.

and i don't mind the insipid lyrics as it's supposed to be a terse little pop album. no need to shoehorn anything deep or profound in there (though billy's lyric writing in general has taken a huge nosedive since zeitgeist)

Dorian in particular is my favorite SP track in a long, long time
 
K

Kinky John

Member
Just listening to the album for the 1st time
(thank you Amazon AutoRip!)
and wondering what the fuck Corgan was injecting/smoking when he decided to put Run2me on there.


Edit: After a few listens...

Good
Tiberius
Being Beige
One and All
Drum + Fife
Dorian

Ok/Meh/Whatever
Anaise!
Run2me
Monuments
Anti-Hero

I'd put good money on One and All ending up in a car commercial.
 
D

Diablos

Member
Billy's voice is LOUD AT ANY VOLUME and it's annoying.

Why can't he just mix an album properly anymore. It's embarrassing to listen to this album unless you are alone.
 
D

Diablos

Member
Tommy Lee sucks.

Fuck this shit, I can't finish it. This is barely a Smashing Pumpkins album. Zeitgeist, despite its shortcomings, fits into the discography. So does Oceania -- which was actually a good album overall, even with ham-fisted drumming!

But this? This? No. It sounds like a side project if anything. Generic Billy mates with 80's ass rock and some random synth shenanigans. What the fuck ever.

Worth noting that I don't believe I have ever dismissed anything Billy has done so quickly as I have this trash.
 
O

Oreoleo

Member
Why are you so hung up on what a Smashing Pumpkins album is 'supposed' to sound like? Did you dismiss Adore outright because it didn't sonically fall in line with the albums that came before it? Would you like it more if it said Billy Corgan on the cover instead of Smashing Pumpkins? Why does it matter? And why are you so angry about it? It's just music.
 
F

FrenchMovieTheme

Member
Oreoleo said:
Why are you so hung up on what a Smashing Pumpkins album is 'supposed' to sound like? Did you dismiss Adore outright because it didn't sonically fall in line with the albums that came before it? Would you like it more if it said Billy Corgan on the cover instead of Smashing Pumpkins? Why does it matter? And why are you so angry about it? It's just music.
Click to expand...

I don't care that the music is different but the production (specifically his vocals) are awful.
 
T

TheBaldEmperor

Member
I'm really excited to have the actual CD tomorrow to listen to on the road. I've heard each song one or two times already but I'm looking forward to listening through it as intended. I actually like what is here and yet again it's different than anything they've really done before.
 
O

Oreoleo

Member
FrenchMovieTheme said:
I don't care that the music is different but the production (specifically his vocals) are awful.
Click to expand...

Maybe I should have quoted but that post was pretty much squarely focused at Diablos. While I can definitely understand the complaints about his vocals, either I've gotten used to it since Zeitgeist or it's just not *quite* as bad as it has been in the past, because it doesn't bother me a whole lot on MTAE. I actually think they suit Anaise rather well, paired with the thick bass and sparse arrangement.
 
M

Macam

Banned
Diablos said:
Tommy Lee sucks.

Fuck this shit, I can't finish it. This is barely a Smashing Pumpkins album. Zeitgeist, despite its shortcomings, fits into the discography. So does Oceania -- which was actually a good album overall, even with ham-fisted drumming!

But this? This? No. It sounds like a side project if anything. Generic Billy mates with 80's ass rock and some random synth shenanigans. What the fuck ever.

Worth noting that I don't believe I have ever dismissed anything Billy has done so quickly as I have this trash.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with much of anything here, save that I still like bits of the album (Anti-Hero is pretty bloody awful though). I just wish it wasn't the album, and was some throw away EP that got tucked under a more focused album. It just sounds like a bunch of songs tossed together.

You could argue the album is 'dying' and that the modern music market affords artists to spit out whatever they like whenever they like, but for all his talk, Billy still churns out albums in the traditional form with a bunch of never-gonna-happen promises along the way.

The drums in MTAE are the worst of any SP album to date, certainly. It's just not interesting in the least and it comes off sounding terribly flat (which has been the trend since JC left), but it's a shame because it leaves a big hole in SP's sound. There was a depth and nuance there and that entire layer is wholly absent.

As for Run2Me, it's just a classic sort of Billy doing his vocal/keyboard noodling sort of song. It reminds me a bit of Pinwheels from Oceania or Strayz from his solo work in 2005. Personally, I always sort of liked it when he let the instruments do most of the talking, and there really isn't any of that here. There are no longer tracks, no ebbs and flows, just a bunch of short, 3 minute tracks.
 
F

Fleet_of_Foot

Member
Man. Twenty years ago, 15 years ago, the release of a new SP album was something I looked forward to for months. I remember buying Adore at midnight, coming home and listening to it twice through before going to sleep. Disc 2 of MCIS, I played so much I actually had to replace it eventually.

I've listened to this new album two times: once on the iTunes preview last week, and once this morning when my preload downloaded.

I don't like it. I could delete it right now and never miss it. The song "Run2Me" makes me want to throw up. I don't know what this song is, but it's not something I'd have ever expected from Smashing Pumpkins. "Dorian" is almost as awful.

There are a couple good songs. I like "Drum + Fife" and "Tiberius" is okay I guess. The rest? Unmemorable.

The whole thing is way too short and it's over before you even have a chance to get into it. Driving to work, I knew I already had it downloaded, but I thought, "Maybe I should stop somewhere and buy the actual CD." (Something I never do anymore because why the heck would I? But for certain bands I'd make an exception.) But I'm glad I didn't, because I looked at the digital booklet that came with the iTunes album, and it's 6 pages of nothing. So glad I didn't buy a physical copy of this. How lazy. Nine boring songs (two of which I never want to hear again) and a boring booklet.

It's amazing to me how much I used to be into this band. I used to know every word to every song. I know tastes change as you age but it's the same guy, still making music. Why has his music become such crap?

Also, hearing a 47-year-old man sing "never been kissed by a girl like you" is just kind of weird. You're too old to be kissing "girls." Move the fuck on with life. This shit is embarrassing. Billy's been around the world, seen a lot of stuff. Is this really all he has to write about? "A girl like you?" This SUCKS.
 
Y

Yuterald

Member
Ordered/downloaded the album as soon as I woke up this morning. Grew up with SP, but sort of stopped listening to them at some point in my life. Rediscovered them a few years back though and have been listening to their discography pretty consistently since then. With that said, not sure what to make of it yet...

Definitely will echo the sentiment that it's short and over too quickly. I cranked this shit on my commute to work this morning (45 min. - an hour, usually) and I ran though it twice. Most of it felt in-one-ear, out-the-other, for sure. My favorite song is definitely All and One though. Already got it on repeat as I type this. Album has a general Zeitgeist sound to it, I feel. I generally dig the empahsis on keyboards/synth, though didn't Billy say this was a "Guitars, Guitars, Guitars..." album? I don't know, it's not offenseive or anything, just incredibly underwhelming. I think Oceania was a more realized/genuine album though.
 
R

Reese-015

Member
Diablos said:
Tommy Lee sucks.

Fuck this shit, I can't finish it. This is barely a Smashing Pumpkins album. Zeitgeist, despite its shortcomings, fits into the discography. So does Oceania -- which was actually a good album overall, even with ham-fisted drumming!

But this? This? No. It sounds like a side project if anything. Generic Billy mates with 80's ass rock and some random synth shenanigans. What the fuck ever.

Worth noting that I don't believe I have ever dismissed anything Billy has done so quickly as I have this trash.
Click to expand...

Fully agree with this. What the fuck is this shit. At worst, in the past I used to feel like sometimes Corgan would do stuff that is great but flawed. I thought his solo stuff was pretty good. I liked Zwan. Loved Zeitgeist and thought Oceania was alright too. This though... What the fuck. Utterly generic and has none of the quirks and charms I've come to expect from Corgan/Pumpkins.
 
Y

Yuterald

Member
I've listened to the entire album all day and I'm warming up to most of it. Run2Me has definitely become my skip-able tune though. I wouldn't say I hate any of the songs on the album, but I definitely can't help but to feel underwhelmed by the whole affair. I was relatively excited for this release too. I really, really like All and One. Tiberius is solid and Anise! and Anti-Hero (despite its ass-y lyrics) are growing on me. My preference lies in the old school stuff (although, I really, really like Machina 1), but there's no tracks on here that come even close to something like Violet Rays off of Oceania (my personal favorite track off of that album).

Gotta echo the sentiments that the general song structure/composition just feels safe and kind of boring. Most songs have their hooks and they're good and catchy, but I personally can't help to shake the feeling that this album feels like something more from the Zeitgeist days (especially lyrically). I kind of dig certain parts of Zeitgeist, so I don't know what to make of that. Oceania (although not even close to being one of my favorite SP albums) felt like it had its own identity or purpose though. But what the fuck do I know, sometimes it takes me 100s of listens of tracks/albums before I "get it".
 
T

TheBaldEmperor

Member
Oreoleo said:
One song, apparently.
http://www.spfc.org/songs-releases/..._ta=&lyrics=lover&notes=&blurb=&no_show_alt=1
Edit: I'm real dumb. SPFC doesn't have the lyrics for the majority of the album up yet.


I am really amused by the negative reactions in here. Legit think this is the best album he's put out in about a decade.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't go that far but I listened through it last night and then today on the treadmill and really enjoy most of what's here. Run2Me is the only one I'm not really feeling at this point. I feel like I'm the only person who likes Anti-Hero though. I think it's groovy.
 
M

Macam

Banned
Yuterald said:
I generally dig the empahsis on keyboards/synth, though didn't Billy say this was a "Guitars, Guitars, Guitars..." album?
Click to expand...

BC overpraises and under delivers incessantly. Following his updates was pretty meaningless because almost nothing he said ever happened, then another band member would quietly bow out of the new SP lineup, BC would change tack, make more promises that would never happen, rinse and repeat.

We were supposed to, what, get like 44 tracks from Kaleidyscope or whatever album? An "album within an album"? So on and so forth.

I almost appreciate his tea (Zuzu's) more than this music these days. He's an immensely talented song writer and musician, but he needs a countervailing presence to balance him out and perhaps a little drama to focus his musical energies.

I have to wonder if he's even touring with this album. Without falling back on a substantive amount of catalog material, this concert would be over shortly, and with the new lineup changes, I doubt he can get any additional/temporary members up to speed quickly enough to make it worth the while.
 
F

FrenchMovieTheme

Member
Macam said:
BC overpraises and under delivers incessantly. Following his updates was pretty meaningless because almost nothing he said ever happened, then another band member would quietly bow out of the new SP lineup, BC would change tack, make more promises that would never happen, rinse and repeat.

We were supposed to, what, get like 44 tracks from Kaleidyscope or whatever album? An "album within an album"? So on and so forth.

I almost appreciate his tea (Zuzu's) more than this music these days. He's an immensely talented song writer and musician, but he needs a countervailing presence to balance him out and perhaps a little drama to focus his musical energies.

I have to wonder if he's even touring with this album. Without falling back on a substantive amount of catalog material, this concert would be over shortly, and with the new lineup changes, I doubt he can get any additional/temporary members up to speed quickly enough to make it worth the while.
Click to expand...

Billy could learn a lot from Josh homme in so many areas. Album production, band members/guests input, playing live, etc. Queens is what SP should have turned into.

But he wont.
 
O

Oreoleo

Member
TheBaldEmperor said:
I wouldn't go that far but I listened through it last night and then today on the treadmill and really enjoy most of what's here. Run2Me is the only one I'm not really feeling at this point. I feel like I'm the only person who likes Anti-Hero though. I think it's groovy.
Click to expand...

I'll admit I'm still in the honeymoon phase so we'll see how well the album holds up in the coming weeks and months. This is absolutely better than Zeitgeist to me, though. Oceania with some trimming could have been really good but as it is there is too much filler and is hard to listen to. Pinwheels+Oceania is probably better than anything on Monuments but as an album Monuments has far fewer missteps and flows better IMO.

Anti-Hero has grown on me quite a bit. The chorus is a lot of fun. Ends the album on a strong upbeat note. My least favorite song on the album is probably Drum + Fife. The verses are a little plodding and there's something about the "I will bang this drum til my dying day" line that doesn't sit right with me. The chorus is sharp though and I really like the "don't you ever be afraid no more, no more, no more" part.
 
C

Chance Hale

Member
Can't say I didn't enjoy listening to the album but it really does feel a bit short and when it ended I kept waiting for it to come back only to realize it was over. Feels like this would have been an extra disk on a Oceania special edition after Corgon is dead.
 
D

Deified Data

Banned
Oreoleo said:
One song, apparently.
http://www.spfc.org/songs-releases/..._ta=&lyrics=lover&notes=&blurb=&no_show_alt=1
Edit: I'm real dumb. SPFC doesn't have the lyrics for the majority of the album up yet.


I am really amused by the negative reactions in here. Legit think this is the best album he's put out in about a decade.
Click to expand...

Despite my making fun I'm enjoying it as well. Agree with the sentiment that the album's better for not having been shackled to the SP legacy like Zeitgeist and to a lesser extent Oceania was, though I think the latter is a superior album to Monuments.

After a couple of listens, Tiberius and Drum+Fife are my two favorites. I actually dig Being Beige now. Anti-Hero simply doesn't fit.
 
F

Fare Godmace

Member
Diablos said:
Tommy Lee sucks.

Fuck this shit, I can't finish it. This is barely a Smashing Pumpkins album. Zeitgeist, despite its shortcomings, fits into the discography. So does Oceania -- which was actually a good album overall, even with ham-fisted drumming!

But this? This? No. It sounds like a side project if anything. Generic Billy mates with 80's ass rock and some random synth shenanigans. What the fuck ever.

Worth noting that I don't believe I have ever dismissed anything Billy has done so quickly as I have this trash.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. I'm not even that mad, it's just not the kind of music I like.

Tiberius and Drum + Fife are the only songs that I may want to ever hear again.
 
F

Fleet_of_Foot

Member
I gotta take back a little of the hate I had yesterday for MTAE. I've listened probably 5 more times. I still stand by most of what I said, but there are definitely some songs that have grown on me a bit.

I still think Run2Me is one of the worst, if not the worst, SP song I've ever heard, though.

Did anyone read through Billy's AMA on Reddit yesterday? The most interesting thing I read was his answer to "Which SP is the most difficult for you to play?" He said the one that comes to mind is "Fuck You."

I love that song and I'm always interested in questions like that. I am wondering if someone who knows a lot more about playing guitar than I do can explain why the song is hard to play? I'm guessing it's the solo but I don't know much about what makes a song hard.

I'd love for someone to explain it in detail, pointing to time stamps in the song so I can hear and understand what makes it tough.
 
P

PotatoeMasher

Member
Fleet_of_Foot said:
Did anyone read through Billy's AMA on Reddit yesterday? The most interesting thing I read was his answer to "Which SP is the most difficult for you to play?" He said the one that comes to mind is "Fuck You."

I love that song and I'm always interested in questions like that. I am wondering if someone who knows a lot more about playing guitar than I do can explain why the song is hard to play? I'm guessing it's the solo but I don't know much about what makes a song hard.

I'd love for someone to explain it in detail, pointing to time stamps in the song so I can hear and understand what makes it tough.
Click to expand...

Without more context I wonder if "most difficult to play" might have more to do with vocal and/or subject. It's an angry song.
 
D

Dead

well not really...yet
It's gotta be the vocals.

Watch the metro performance. There's no way he sing, scream and growl like that anymore.
 
F

FrenchMovieTheme

Member
Fleet_of_Foot said:
I gotta take back a little of the hate I had yesterday for MTAE. I've listened probably 5 more times. I still stand by most of what I said, but there are definitely some songs that have grown on me a bit.

I still think Run2Me is one of the worst, if not the worst, SP song I've ever heard, though.

Did anyone read through Billy's AMA on Reddit yesterday? The most interesting thing I read was his answer to "Which SP is the most difficult for you to play?" He said the one that comes to mind is "Fuck You."

I love that song and I'm always interested in questions like that. I am wondering if someone who knows a lot more about playing guitar than I do can explain why the song is hard to play? I'm guessing it's the solo but I don't know much about what makes a song hard.

I'd love for someone to explain it in detail, pointing to time stamps in the song so I can hear and understand what makes it tough.
Click to expand...

Geek USA solo is harder so it'd have to be a vocal issue
 
T

TheBaldEmperor

Member
Fleet_of_Foot said:
I gotta take back a little of the hate I had yesterday for MTAE. I've listened probably 5 more times. I still stand by most of what I said, but there are definitely some songs that have grown on me a bit.

I still think Run2Me is one of the worst, if not the worst, SP song I've ever heard, though.

Did anyone read through Billy's AMA on Reddit yesterday? The most interesting thing I read was his answer to "Which SP is the most difficult for you to play?" He said the one that comes to mind is "Fuck You."

I love that song and I'm always interested in questions like that. I am wondering if someone who knows a lot more about playing guitar than I do can explain why the song is hard to play? I'm guessing it's the solo but I don't know much about what makes a song hard.

I'd love for someone to explain it in detail, pointing to time stamps in the song so I can hear and understand what makes it tough.
Click to expand...

I'm not really sure what he meant by that. I can play the song and I would say it's one of the more fun songs to play. For the record, I can't play the solo on that song but when he does it looks pretty effortless. Live it is a lot faster than the album and it is a little difficult to nail the parts where he starts singing "and you're mistaken, it's you that's faking...etc." Sorry, that probably wasn't the explanation you were looking for but it's all I got.
 
Y

Yuterald

Member
I've been listening to the album at work/on my commutes since launch and I'm definitely liking it more on repeat listens. I can't stress how much I love All and One. I'm one of those dudes who can put a single track on repeat for hours on end and not tire from it (may have to do with my line of work though). That track just does it for me and flows so well. I'm already at that point where I can order the songs, I think, haha!

From favorite to least favorite:

1. All and One
2. Anaise!
3. Tiberius
4. Drum + Fife
5. Dorian
6. Anti-Hero
7. Being Beige
8. Monuments
9. Run2Me

Enough has been said about Run2Me...but I also haven't clicked with Monuments. I find it really underwhelming too, especially considering the fact that it appears to be the song named after the album. I particularly like how Drum + Fife starts, especially when the drums and bass and everything kicks in. I sort of thought the song was going to go in a different direction at the beginning, kind of hard to explain, but it never went there and I'm kind of bummed it didn't. Anti-Hero is also interesting for me. Lyrically, it's so not my thing, but musically, I love it. When the song settles in at 40 seconds (the chorus, I guess?) it's so good.
 
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