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Official Smashing Pumpkins thread

Jedeye Sniv

Banned
What are y'alls thoughts on the actual adore remaster?

Listened to some of it and found it's noticeably less harsh. It comes off as a bit smoother. Compared a few songs back and forth listening through some pretty high end headphones and a DAC

I listened to it, but not back to back with the original (which I've not heard for a few years). It sounds like the album I remember, pretty much. I think the electronics in Ava Adore and Perfect sound a little louder, I don't remember noticing them so much before. Interested to hear the mono mix to see how different it is, I notice that the track lengths are all different.

Also the extras (demos etc) seem a little incomplete? Surely there must be demos of Eye or Cash Car (speaking of which, I wonder what the original sounded like?? Not too fond of this '2014' version). There's a bunch of stuff where I find myself thinking "why did they include this?" why is TEITBITE missing?

Loving the version of LMGTWTY though.
 
Surely there must be demos of Eye or Cash Car (speaking of which, I wonder what the original sounded like??

Eye was from '96, not the Adore era. For Cash Car Star, closest thing we have is the KISS Halloween performance (with Aronoff on drums) that happened after the Adore sessions wrapped up in March of '98 and right before the early Machina studio sessions that made up a lot of TFAEOMM: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDjUcURfu1U

After the MCIS leaks of late I'm a bit down on these reissues. Give us the raw motherlode, not a million Kerry Brown remixes. I guess I was hoping for something more like the Pet Sounds & SMiLE Sessions that came out, where you really get in to the studio. So glad we have the 666 tapes for that reason.
 

Oreoleo

Member
I'm listening to the reissue right now. I've actually been listening to Adore a LOT recently (http://www.last.fm/user/oreoleo/charts?subtype=tracks - for no particular reason other than it's a good album) so I feel fairly, ehm... qualified (for lack of a better word) to notice the smaller differences. I've been looking forward to this reissue a bunch and wanted to set some time aside to listen to it so I hope you all don't mind my ramblings too much..


To Sheila - The banjos and some of the ambient effects are higher in the mix

Ava Adore - Seems basically identical. Longer fade out is not as jarring as on the original and much appreciated.

Perfect - Also mostly the same

Daphne Descends - Counter to the rest of the album so far the mix seems a bit flatter here. The swirling guitars aren't nearly as prominent, but there's a tremolo effect on a 2nd (?) guitar I'd never noticed before. Think I might prefer the original mix.

Once Upon A Time - The high end is much more noticeable here, especially the tambourines.

Tear - The crash cymbals on the intro/main hook are mixed higher, covers up the somewhat dated/dry sound of the synth, giving the overall sound more depth. Without looking at the spectrograph, it sounds like there might be a bit of that "loud at any volume" brickwalling going on- booo. But I could be wrong.

Crestfallen - Vocals much more front and center. There's what sounds like a digital shaker sitting a little too above the mix and is kind of grating..

Appels + Oranjes - Dynamic range seems better. My least favorite song on the album, but the mix makes it somehow more listenable.

Pug - The intro hook sounds thinner, and the bass is (maybe?) reeled in a bit so it blends with the rest of the mix better now. Similar to Crestfallen, the vocals are again more front and center. Outro fade sounds improved similar to Ava Adore. Might be more brickwalling at points but can't say for certain. Sounds like the most significantly changed mix on the album thus far, to my ears.

The Tale of Dusty and Pistol Pete - Greater dynamic range, the bass comes through more prominently than on the original mix. Sounds great, actually. Cleaner vocals.

Annie-Dog - Pretty sparse song, hard to do much with, but the bass seems to be increased a bit and the piano has a fuller sound. Not sure if it's better dynamic range but each element (vocal, drum, piano) sounds cleaner and easier to pick apart. The arrangement really lets the mix shine, imo.

Shame - Sounds basically identical to the original. The hi-hat and vocals are a little brighter, in line with the rest of the reissue.

Behold! The Night Mare - Is it just me or are the vocals on the chorus ("and the NIIIGHT MAAAAARE rides on") kicked up a bunch? Legit caught me by surprise and startled me a little. The whole thing sounds a bit louder, actually, but not to the point of brickwalling.

For Martha - Vocals are louder. Can clearly make out the line "wherever I run to you lost one" which was always kind of a question mark for me if he said "one," if not for the live versions. While the clearer vocals are appreciated, you can hear some of the imperfections in Billy's falsetto at times that were otherwise mixed out so I'm not sure if it's a net improvement. No major differences in the rest of the mix (why mess with perfection?), aside from the across the board increase in brightness.

Blank Page - Sounds like the bass level is increased. There's some more space in between the multi-layered vocals on the chorus (or maybe I'm just listening too intently). Nothing too drastic, thankfully.

17 - lol


Overall it all seems brighter and louder than the original. The high ends aren't rolled off as much. Besides that it's pretty faithful to the original, however unlike basically every other main SP album I feel like this is the one album that needed a re-mix/mastering the least, aside from Tear and Pug which, ironically are the most questionable mixes on the reissue. Will have to listen side-by-side with the originals to make up my mind on the changes.

Hope someone appreciates this :p
 

Gouty

Bloodborne is shit
Alright Pumpkins Gaf, the only reason I'm even allowing this discussion is due to For Martha. Truly a heavyweight among their catalog.

But one track does not save an album.

Say what you want about the tude and tone but Z has Tarantula (which shows more swagger and life than anything post Mellon Collie) Starz, which hits like a sledge hammer, United States which is a towering monster of a track and then album gets rounded out by the one two punch of Bring The Light and Come On Lets Go.

Any Pumpkins album that lets Jimmy off the leash is a better record than Adore.
 
Alright Pumpkins Gaf, the only reason I'm even allowing this discussion is due to For Martha. Truly a heavyweight among their catalog.

But one track does not save an album.

Say what you want about the tude and tone but Z has Tarantula (which shows more swagger and life than anything post Mellon Collie) Starz, which hits like a sledge hammer, United States which is a towering monster of a track and then album gets rounded out by the one two punch of Bring The Light and Come On Lets Go.

Any Pumpkins album that lets Jimmy off the leash is a better record than Adore.

starz would have been grade A material if not for "we ah stazzz... we aaaahhhh" fucking nearly ruins the entire song. luckily jimmy saves the day at the end of the song.

i think tarantula, 7 shades of black, united states, bleeding the orchid, neverlost, bring the light, come on lets go are all quality songs. stellar, for god and country, pomp and circumstance are all fucking terrible though.... like maybe the worst songs billy has ever done.
 
I'm listening to the reissue right now. I've actually been listening to Adore a LOT recently (http://www.last.fm/user/oreoleo/charts?subtype=tracks - for no particular reason other than it's a good album) so I feel fairly, ehm... qualified (for lack of a better word) to notice the smaller differences. I've been looking forward to this reissue a bunch and wanted to set some time aside to listen to it so I hope you all don't mind my ramblings too much..


To Sheila - The banjos and some of the ambient effects are higher in the mix

Ava Adore - Seems basically identical. Longer fade out is not as jarring as on the original and much appreciated.

Perfect - Also mostly the same

Daphne Descends - Counter to the rest of the album so far the mix seems a bit flatter here. The swirling guitars aren't nearly as prominent, but there's a tremolo effect on a 2nd (?) guitar I'd never noticed before. Think I might prefer the original mix.

Once Upon A Time - The high end is much more noticeable here, especially the tambourines.

Tear - The crash cymbals on the intro/main hook are mixed higher, covers up the somewhat dated/dry sound of the synth, giving the overall sound more depth. Without looking at the spectrograph, it sounds like there might be a bit of that "loud at any volume" brickwalling going on- booo. But I could be wrong.

Crestfallen - Vocals much more front and center. There's what sounds like a digital shaker sitting a little too above the mix and is kind of grating..

Appels + Oranjes - Dynamic range seems better. My least favorite song on the album, but the mix makes it somehow more listenable.

Pug - The intro hook sounds thinner, and the bass is (maybe?) reeled in a bit so it blends with the rest of the mix better now. Similar to Crestfallen, the vocals are again more front and center. Outro fade sounds improved similar to Ava Adore. Might be more brickwalling at points but can't say for certain. Sounds like the most significantly changed mix on the album thus far, to my ears.

The Tale of Dusty and Pistol Pete - Greater dynamic range, the bass comes through more prominently than on the original mix. Sounds great, actually. Cleaner vocals.

Annie-Dog - Pretty sparse song, hard to do much with, but the bass seems to be increased a bit and the piano has a fuller sound. Not sure if it's better dynamic range but each element (vocal, drum, piano) sounds cleaner and easier to pick apart. The arrangement really lets the mix shine, imo.

Shame - Sounds basically identical to the original. The hi-hat and vocals are a little brighter, in line with the rest of the reissue.

Behold! The Night Mare - Is it just me or are the vocals on the chorus ("and the NIIIGHT MAAAAARE rides on") kicked up a bunch? Legit caught me by surprise and startled me a little. The whole thing sounds a bit louder, actually, but not to the point of brickwalling.

For Martha - Vocals are louder. Can clearly make out the line "wherever I run to you lost one" which was always kind of a question mark for me if he said "one," if not for the live versions. While the clearer vocals are appreciated, you can hear some of the imperfections in Billy's falsetto at times that were otherwise mixed out so I'm not sure if it's a net improvement. No major differences in the rest of the mix (why mess with perfection?), aside from the across the board increase in brightness.

Blank Page - Sounds like the bass level is increased. There's some more space in between the multi-layered vocals on the chorus (or maybe I'm just listening too intently). Nothing too drastic, thankfully.

17 - lol


Overall it all seems brighter and louder than the original. The high ends aren't rolled off as much. Besides that it's pretty faithful to the original, however unlike basically every other main SP album I feel like this is the one album that needed a re-mix/mastering the least, aside from Tear and Pug which, ironically are the most questionable mixes on the reissue. Will have to listen side-by-side with the originals to make up my mind on the changes.

Hope someone appreciates this :p

good review brah. i don't know why i didn't realize it until listening to the remaster but 17 seconds is a partial piano version of blissed and gone
 

mattiewheels

And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
I never understood anyone who heard Adore and thought "What is this crap? Old Pumpkins please." Pretty much all of my best buds are Pumpkins fans, and they love Adore for what it is, but I could see that as a friendship deal breaker, ha.
 

Gouty

Bloodborne is shit
I never understood anyone who heard Adore and thought "What is this crap? Old Pumpkins please." Pretty much all of my best buds are Pumpkins fans, and they love Adore for what it is, but I could see that as a friendship deal breaker, ha.

Adore has Shame on it. That track might actually be the one song in the entire Pumpkins catalog that is unlistenable. I mean just career ending terrible. Its absolute dreck.
 

mattiewheels

And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
Adore has Shame on it. That track might actually be the one song in the entire Pumpkins catalog that is unlistenable. I mean just career ending terrible. Its absolute dreck.
Dreck to you, but to my teenage ass with relationship angst it was my jam.

"Hello, goodbye, you know you made us cry" :,(
 

Oreoleo

Member
starz would have been grade A material if not for "we ah stazzz... we aaaahhhh" fucking nearly ruins the entire song.
so so very agreed. i remember once i was over at my friends house who is also a huge pumpkinhead, we had zeitgeist on for people to listen to (he lived with 4 or 5 other guys) and we snuck upstairs to talk or smoke a bowl or something mid album and i made a comment like "now they have to listen to starz!" and we laaaughed and laaaughed.

good review brah. i don't know why i didn't realize it until listening to the remaster but 17 seconds is a partial piano version of blissed and gone
thanks!

Adore has Shame on it. That track might actually be the one song in the entire Pumpkins catalog that is unlistenable. I mean just career ending terrible. Its absolute dreck.
take it back! shame sort of reminds me of rocket in that they are both above-average tracks that can get easily lost among the grander songs on their respective albums (hummer/soma, night mare>for martha>blank page) but subjectively, shame is one of my absolute favorite songs on adore. infinitely listenable.


I never understood anyone who heard Adore and thought "What is this crap? Old Pumpkins please." Pretty much all of my best buds are Pumpkins fans, and they love Adore for what it is, but I could see that as a friendship deal breaker, ha.
there was a girlfriend i had in high school, it was sort of around that time when i was the most into SP and tried to get everyone i was friends with turned on to them (ditto radiohead), and she mostly liked the mix of songs i played for her in the car or whatever. so i got her adore for her birthday, and she ended up not liking it very much, preferring the brighter sounds of siamese dream and mellon collie.

needless to say, that relationship didn't end well :p
 

Gouty

Bloodborne is shit
Dreck to you, but to my teenage ass with relationship angst it was my jam.(

take it back! shame sort of reminds me of rocket in that they are both above-average tracks that can get easily lost among the grander songs on their respective albums (hummer/soma, night mare>for martha>blank page) but subjectively, shame is one of my absolute favorite songs on adore. infinitely listenable.

Can we get a mod in here? Billy has multiple accounts.
 

Diablos

Member
Umm, the new Pug mix sounds like shit. WTF. Billy can't leave well enough alone. Less bass, seems to be a lot less dynamic overall too. The overall drive of the song is ruined, and that's what makes it so fun to listen to...

edit: Sounds like the super short gap after the 3:00 mark (i think around 3:01 or 3:02) in Dusty & Pistol Pete is gone. So hard to unhear it after all these years. LOL

edit 2: 2014 mix of Eye...

6Le0BYc.jpg


edit 3: Live disc makes me wish I was able to catch the Pumpkins back in 1998. These performances are perfect.
 
http://loudwire.com/smashing-pumpkins-monuments-to-an-elegy-artwork-tentative-release-details/

Corgan elaborated further on the disc during an interview with Alternative Nation, stating, “I feel like it’s there, and all of the response that I’ve gotten behind the scenes is off the charts. Just a really, really intense response. Things like people saying, ‘This is the record I’ve been waiting for you to make for 15 years.’ That kind of stuff, very grandiose things, but it tells me that we’re on point, in terms of hitting the right note. Because if you made like, ‘Hahaha, Siamese Dream 2,’ people wouldn’t have that response. They wouldn’t see it as current, and I know that from my own list, so it feels current to people that are hearing it.”

nope. everyone would love siamese dream 2 you dumb motherfucker

Smashing Pumpkins, ‘Monuments to an Elegy’ Track Listing:
1. ‘Tiberius’
2. ‘Being Beige (World’s on Fire)’
3. ‘Anaise’
4. ‘One and All’
5. ‘Run2Me’
6. ‘Drum and Fife’
7. ‘Monuments’
8. ‘Dorian’
9. ‘Anti-Hero’

jaguars-fan-confused-wtf.gif
 
The album I've been waiting for 15yrs is just a solid rock album. ROCK. I love SP Ballads and the slower songs just as much, but I always wanted him to just go full blown balls to the wall rock like when they jam live.

Did I miss which of those tracks will be the 1st Single? (probably only single?)
 
We know the drumming will be better.

Oh man... It can't be stated enough how freaking terrible Mike was. Billy straight up stopping the show during a performance of Zero when Mike effed up might just be the most awkward SP moment on stage. Yes, I know Billy has been body slammed by a wrestler on stage, taken his shirt off, and worn an actual dress.
 
Oh man... It can't be stated enough how freaking terrible Mike was. Billy straight up stopping the show during a performance of Zero when Mike effed up might just be the most awkward SP moment on stage. Yes, I know Billy has been body slammed by a wrestler on stage, taken his shirt off, and worn an actual dress.

This I'd like to hear more about.
 
So I'm sitting here with my finger hovering over the "buy" button on the Adore Deluxe Remaster. Thirty-five dollars, damn I don't know. I'll probably buy it like I have the rest, and then listen to most of these songs one or two times, like I have the rest.

Anyway, I'm wondering what the benefit of the mono-mix songs are. Why include that? Probably an obvious "music reason" but I don't get it.
 
So I'm sitting here with my finger hovering over the "buy" button on the Adore Deluxe Remaster. Thirty-five dollars, damn I don't know. I'll probably buy it like I have the rest, and then listen to most of these songs one or two times, like I have the rest.

Anyway, I'm wondering what the benefit of the mono-mix songs are. Why include that? Probably an obvious "music reason" but I don't get it.

i bought it on amazon. can't say it was fully worth it to be honest. ok cool you get like 8 versions of For Martha.... i'm still only going to listen to the original. the remaster itself is nice to have but the original adore still sounded great.

it's nice to have some of these songs but honestly just save your money. you aren't missing much.
 
Oh man... It can't be stated enough how freaking terrible Mike was. Billy straight up stopping the show during a performance of Zero when Mike effed up might just be the most awkward SP moment on stage. Yes, I know Billy has been body slammed by a wrestler on stage, taken his shirt off, and worn an actual dress.
Is there footage of all three incidents on YouTube?
 
So I'm sitting here with my finger hovering over the "buy" button on the Adore Deluxe Remaster. Thirty-five dollars, damn I don't know. I'll probably buy it like I have the rest, and then listen to most of these songs one or two times, like I have the rest.

Anyway, I'm wondering what the benefit of the mono-mix songs are. Why include that? Probably an obvious "music reason" but I don't get it.

original vinyl pressing was a mono mix, its a bit of a novelty for fans. I'm glad it was included.
 

Billy just looks foolish. If he'd have just played on, no one probably would have noticed, and certainly no one would have cared if they did. No one expects perfection at a live show. They're not recording this for an album or something. Instead he stopped the show and called out his drummer in front of the whole crowd. How embarrassing. Asshole.

I did end up buying the Super Deluxe Edition of Adore. That was a mistake. If I'd have just slept on it, I wouldn't have bought it. Instead I was impulsive. I've been a fan since the beginning and Adore is probably my least favorite album and era of the band (Zeitgeist is close too, though). The album itself is still decent, but all these outtakes and lost songs aren't worth the money. They're a novelty, something to listen to one time. I don't even want to listen to half of them at all.

The previous Deluxe Editions were more interesting to me and for the MCIS Deluxe in particular, I do still listen to some of those extra discs from time to time. I can't see myself listening to most of this Adore stuff past the first time.
 
Being Beige is the single. Drops Monday.

Too bad you didn't like the Adore reissue. There is some crap on there but for the most part i like what ended up on it.
 
I still need to give it a listen to the rest of the stuff, but having "Waiting" on something other than Judas O is alllmost worth admission to me.

So far pieces had the best extra disc.
 

Diablos

Member
Billy just looks foolish. If he'd have just played on, no one probably would have noticed, and certainly no one would have cared if they did. No one expects perfection at a live show. They're not recording this for an album or something. Instead he stopped the show and called out his drummer in front of the whole crowd. How embarrassing. Asshole.
I think what makes him the asshole and idiot more than anything else here is the fact that he picked Mike to begin with. It's like he was setting him up to fail. Mike would be great for any given indie rock outfit or a more generic rock band. Replacing Jimmy Chamberlin is a formidable task however, and one that he was never prepared for. He never should have been chosen. It's one of the dumbest things Billy has ever done.

Was he thinking it would help the band connect with the younger demographic again? I can't understand why he picked him. It makes no sense. But of course, Billy has to go through the agony of making such a dumb decision despite the entire world basically calling him out on it before actually coming to terms with it.
 

DiscoJon

Banned
Goddamn the new single is boring as fuck. And way to go Billy having the new song be completely overshadowed by Sleater Kinney announcing their comeback.
 
Yeah the name "Being Beige" certainly fits :U

Its not awful or anything but hrm, was expecting something else after saying Tommy Lee drummed on the album (uhhh this was that album right? I'm confused by that scheme).

Its just a bit too anemic, not bad at all, but a breezy throwaway sounding track.. The worst thing I can say about it as that it'd fit right in on Oceania, alas.
 
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