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[Dragona Akehi]

Unfortunately, the only way to work that would "break" part of the game controls OR take out a gameplay element. When you crouch-slide, you can do the long jump, but when your belly sliding, you can attack at the cost of much jump potential. If they leave in the long jump while belly sliding, there are a few hills in the game where you can potentially climb up effortlessly, and if they remove the slide, well, that's just a matter of personal taste, but it's a function I always thought was good for both SM64 and SMS.

Ok how about L? It's just a useless "camera centrist" button as it is. I'd give that up in a heartbeat to prevent the stupidity of having B and A backwards. ESPECIALLY in touchpad mode. There really is no excuse for that.

Wow, never thought we'd be debating controls on a Nintendo title, but between this and Starfox, the gloves are off. Crazy.

To be fair, Starfox is a Namco game.

 

[Crazymoogle]

Ok how about L? It's just a useless "camera centrist" button as it is. I'd give that up in a heartbeat to prevent the stupidity of having B and A backwards. ESPECIALLY in touchpad mode. There really is no excuse for that.

You're a brave woman to give up on a camera center button for Mario 64 (I like having some free camera control, but often the M64/SMS camera just freaks out), but you know, that would work if camera center was moved to the touchscreen. Which would make perfect sense given the rest of the camera controls are usually there anyway. (Actually, in touchpad mode, X+Y could do it to, I guess)

To be fair, Starfox is a Namco game.

Well, also to be fair, whether it's F-ZERO, Zelda, or Starfox, it all has to go through Nintendo still, and they're the real sticklers when it comes to options and control settings. Namco, Sega, and Capcom all have their own dark histories on letting that sort of thing slide.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

You're a brave woman to give up on a camera center button for Mario 64 (I like having some free camera control, but often the M64/SMS camera just freaks out), but you know, that would work if camera center was moved to the touchscreen. Which would make perfect sense given the rest of the camera controls are usually there anyway. (Actually, in touchpad mode, X+Y could do it to, I guess)

Exactly. Even if you were using D-Pad mode, there's still touchpad camera controls there. I just hate having my buttons reversed on me. It's one of the most irritating thing on the face of the planet, asides from fanboys.

Well, also to be fair, whether it's F-ZERO, Zelda, or Starfox, it all has to go through Nintendo still, and they're the real sticklers when it comes to options and control settings. Namco, Sega, and Capcom all have their own dark histories on letting that sort of thing slide.

Perhaps, but then there's the blatant glaring flaws of the Link to the Past port. R as "talk", "pick up" and so forth. That's even more of a travesty than this argument in some cases. A should have been "talk", etc, B sword and R the Items.

I'd like to kill Capcom for that one. That also semi-ruined Minish Cap for me. :\

I wish we could get all game makers to agree on one thing: PLEASE GIVE US A CUSTOMIZABLE CONTROL SCHEME. IT IS THIRTY LINES OF CODE.

 

[Mejilan]

Wow Dragona... you're very... uh strict, about your controls!! :-D

 

[Crazymoogle]

Perhaps, but then there's the blatant glaring flaws of the Link to the Past port. R as "talk", "pick up" and so forth. That's even more of a travesty than this argument in some cases. A should have been "talk", etc, B sword and R the Items.

STOP. YOU'RE READING MY MIND.

I wish we could get all game makers to agree on one thing: PLEASE GIVE US A CUSTOMIZABLE CONTROL SCHEME. IT IS THIRTY LINES OF CODE.

I can see why it isn't done sometimes - there are certain control schemes that don't lend themselves to variation (ie: Metroid Prime) - but in most cases button swap options should be in place (ie: Twin Snakes).

 

[Dragona Akehi]

Wow Dragona... you're very... uh strict, about your controls!! :-D

There are four things in the gaming realm that piss me off:

a) bad controls I cannot "rectify" with a customizable control scheme

b) bad framerates

c) Nomura

d) "Metroid" Prime and Retro Studios continuing to exist


Well, I'm sure there's more, but I can't really quantify them right now. I won't get into RPG nitpicks at this very moment, for instance.

 

[Mejilan]

:lol

Don't ever let anyone say you don't rock, kick ass, take names, and all that.

I'm really anal about controls too, or at least I always thought so. I don't appreciate what was lost (control-wise) when Mario 64 was remade for the DS, but it actually didn't break the game for me, thank g-d.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

STOP. YOU'RE READING MY MIND.

I've bitched about that little terror ever since it was unveiled and playable at E3. Everyone game me funny looks and said I "could get used to it". Many a neck I wished to snap right then.

I can see why it isn't done sometimes - there are certain control schemes that don't lend themselves to variation (ie: Metroid Prime) - but in most cases button swap options should be in place (ie: Twin Snakes).

"Metroid" Prime is a subject best left out of this thread. Don't even get me started. And I'm not even referring to the controls.

Now look what you made me do.

Back on the subject: essentially if you have buttons assigned as an action or item or whatever, it should be able to be switched. Nintendo games have notoriously never had this option (excluding Super Metroid, god bless R&D 1) but then again, until Mario 64 DS, there's never been a reason to demand one of them.

Nintendo, in my mind has always meant at least one thing: perfectly realised control schemes. This is why Mario 64 DS's "control" methods are such an affront to my sensibilities. INCONCEIVABLE!, and all that.

 

[sc0la]

God, I *really* don't wanna hafta buy a DS for Advance Wars DS. Hopefully I'll be able to get a used one by then and not bump Nintendo's sell-through +1.

You owe them nothing else, but it is your duty to pad their numbers for that game, think of it as tithing directly to advance wars

 

[The Faceless Master]

I can see why it isn't done sometimes - there are certain control schemes that don't lend themselves to variation (ie: Metroid Prime) - but in most cases button swap options should be in place (ie: Twin Snakes).

here we go again :lol :lol :lol

 

[Dsal]

A somewhat on topic reply to an earlier post:

As some of you out there already may know, the circle and X buttons being reversed when you play some games is a cultural thing.

In the US, we consider O to kind mean zero, so we usually assume it's a "cancel". X we assume to be like a checkoff mark like we would do to a box on a form, so we consider that "confirm"

In Japan it's the other way around. They have the batsu/maru system where O means Yes/Success and X means No/Fail.

Some Japanese games switch O and X in anticipation of this for localization to the US market, but some don't. And hence the age old problem of some games doing it one way and some the other way. It gets really confusing if you played the import version of a game at home and then play the US version of the same game at a friend's. A lot of times the buttons are switched up.

 

[DDayton]

In the US, we consider O to kind mean zero, so we usually assume it's a "cancel". X we assume to be like a checkoff mark like we would do to a box on a form, so we consider that "confirm"

While "O" doesn't have a set symbolic meaning here in the USA, I'd argue that "X" is generally used to refer to cancelling.

 

[Azure Dream]

While "O" doesn't have a set symbolic meaning here in the USA, I'd argue that "X" is generally used to refer to cancelling.

But the X is in a more centric, natural position, which psychologically can be deemed the positive, while the O is set off to the right on the edge of the controller, which gives you the impression that it stands for exception; therefore it's what someone might assume they use to deny the established thing listed onscreen, or use less frequent actions.


Personally, for the most part I was fine with SM64DS's controls, the only time I switched to the touchpad was for a bit of awkward tiptoe-ing. The way they designed that sort of brief pivot in the D-Pad's controls before you started moving worked well for what they had to accomplish, and it was only times where the camera was defaulting to an angle where the logical control wasn't quite right that it became a problem. (Tick-Tock Clock when stopped and Tiny-Huge Island both have bits where you need to slide across the side of a wall or something jutting out, and the camera prefers an angle that doesn't quite work well enough for the controls.)

As it was, it seemed like the Wing Cap was far friendlier to use (I don't know if they changed how it works, or if just the new control system makes it simpler to master), and I relied on it far more than I did in the N64 version. And it was quite amusing that if you held Y while standing in place for a moment, then pressed a direction, you got a sort of Sonic-y spindash that let you run at full speed. It was intentional, since there's even a voice clip for it, and it did come in handy in one or two spots.

...But trying to throw Bowser just completely sucked, I have to say that.

 

[Prospero]

God, I *really* don't wanna hafta buy a DS for Advance Wars DS.

It's a shame that it'll be October 2005 until a game comes out for the DS that's worth a damn.

 

[TheQueen'sOwn]

God, I *really* don't wanna hafta buy a DS for Advance Wars DS.

Same. I need to save up some money for the PSP =(.

 

[levious]

A somewhat on topic reply to an earlier post:

As some of you out there already may know, the circle and X buttons being reversed when you play some games is a cultural thing.

In the US, we consider O to kind mean zero, so we usually assume it's a "cancel". X we assume to be like a checkoff mark like we would do to a box on a form, so we consider that "confirm"

In Japan it's the other way around. They have the batsu/maru system where O means Yes/Success and X means No/Fail.

Some Japanese games switch O and X in anticipation of this for localization to the US market, but some don't. And hence the age old problem of some games doing it one way and some the other way. It gets really confusing if you played the import version of a game at home and then play the US version of the same game at a friend's. A lot of times the buttons are switched up.

I always thought it had more to do with just having the far right button being traditional for "confirm." Genesis/Saturn usually used C for that, NES/SNES seemed to always use A... it wasn't until the PSX that I noticed more games using something other than the far right button. Now PS2 and Xbox seem to mostly use the lower button of the four button pattern. Konami games for instance still stick with the far right button on PS2 at least. Don't think I've played an Xbox Konami game.