Support NeoGAF

[Uno Ill Nino]

I remember when The Grudge hit theaters some time ago. Lots of people on this forum bashed it into the ground stating that it couldn't hold a candle to the Japanese film "Ju-On" that is was a remake of. I saw The Grudge anyway and thought it was the scariest movie I've ever seen, even topping The Exorcist. I've seen a lot of horror movies too. I mean REAL horror movies. I don't consider Jason X or Nightmare on Elm St. part X to be horror movies. Neither are any of the Chucky movies. Those are cheese. So with that in mind, I thought The Grudge topped them all and was overall, the creepiest movie I'd seen and since I hadn't seen Ju-On yet, I had to take your word for it and believe that Ju-On was the superior movie.

How the hell can you say that? I bought both movies on DVD yesterday and watched Ju-On today. Ju-On seemed like the poor man's version of The Grudge. I realize Ju-On came out first, but The Grudge was better in every way.

1) The "creature" effects were far superior. In Ju-On, they appeared to me as actors with lots of paint on them. In The Grudge, they seemed otherworldy. The scene where the grandmother is laying in bed and the caretaker is tending to her for example. When the creature descends on them it looks way less polished in Ju-On. In the Grudge it is this black mass with eyes that penetrate through the darkness rather than just a black screen with a black painted face looking through a hole in the middle.

Also note the stairway scene. When the "mother" comes down the stairs, she is contorted in terrible ways in The Grudge. Its this ghastly creature coming to scare you to your death. In Ju-On, it felt like an actor in a lot of paint, slowly crawling down the stairs in a very human way. The scene had much less impact in Ju-On, despite the added sounds of snapping bones and that creepy gargle thing that they did in both films.

2) The pacing of the film. Both movies jumped all over the place. I know a lot of idiots had a hard time following the timeline in The Grudge because some american moviegoers have the attention span of a gnat. That aside, Ju-On had those 3 schoolgirls and the detective's daughter. I realize they weren't in The Grudge, and I'm glad they weren't. They seemed tacked on. That's weird of me to say since Ju-On came FIRST, but overall I have to say The Grudge just seemed more relevant. Everyone in that movie had a part that made complete sense. Those girls had no reason to be in that house in Ju-On. For me, it wasn't believable that they'd be in the house to begin with. But that's small fries and hardly why I thought Ju-On wasn't the better movie. Moving on.

3) Scenes had more impact in The Grudge. It was just more intense. They had Bill Paxton jump off a balcony. When the "mother" was crawling on somebody's lap at the doorway, it was done in such a way that you were just praying that they would get the door open and make it out of the house, but then the mother's head comes out of the doorway as soon as it opens and you are left unable to breathe. THAT, to me, was horror. I really thought that specific scene was one of the best horror movie moments EVER. When the original caretaker first encounters the strange knocks on the walls is another example of how the scenes were just done better.

Overall the movie just had higher production values. I realize it had a bigger budget and that it had newer technology to take advantage of, but that only helped it surpass the original and become more streamlined, focused, and polished in every way. I honestly want to know why so many of you knocked The Grudge and then defended Ju-On at the same time. If you didn't like either movie, fine. I just hope you don't insult yourself by saying something dumb like, "Texas Chainsaw Remake was better" or some shit like that. I want to hear from the people who think The Grudge sucked, but Ju-On was awesome. I'm throwing down the Gauntlet now cuz I wanna hear your opposing opinions so that maybe I can somehow see Ju-On in a different light. As of now, I see it as "The Poor Man's Grudge".

 

[Kabuki Waq]

I liked the Raw feel of Ju-On better.

I enjoyed the school girl storyline as well.

 

[Fei]

Ditto with The Ring and Ringu. Some people here are too enamored with the Japanese is all I can say.

 

[Zaptruder]

They were both shit.

Enough said.

 

[Tsubaki]

There is an intangible element of Japanese or Asian horror that is absent in Western horror.

That's why I see a lot of people who like the US remakes and hate the Japanese originals. Then there's another camp who love the Japanese originals and hate the US remakes.

I am by no means an expert on horror, or film in general. But I've seen my fair share of Western (mostly American, but some Italian) horror and I've seen many j-horror films. I'd have to say that in general, I like jhorror more than western horror because it's done in a subtler way that gets to my subconscious.

I have seen haters of Ringu and Ju-on The Grudge say that the Japanese versions were too slow paced and boring. I think that kind of viewpoint has a lot to do with the type of horror the author normally watches, that ultimately influences their taste.

I personally haven't seen The Grudge yet, but I enjoyed Ju-on The Grudge a bit. From what I hear, The Grudge relies more on Resident Evil-style scares where things are more lively and pop out of nowhere, versus the ominous mood Ju-On The Grudge has throughout.

 

[FrenchMovieTheme]

http://www.ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=25319

finally someone agrees with me!


p.s. Tsub that isn't it at all. the grudge doesn't rely on "resident evil" style scares. Ju-on is ok, but it seems like a jigsaw puzzle that is broken into a thousand pieces. the story is incoherent, the effects are a joke (YES, makeup/effects do play an important part in movies), and just the overall feel of the movie makes it seem, i wont say boring, but very lacking.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

really most of these threads come down to which version of the movie you saw first.

 

[FrenchMovieTheme]

well it all comes down to personal opinion. but its like saying "i like the taste of poop (ju-on) better than pizza(grudge)!" that is an opinion, but i just have a hard time understanding why

 

[Kabuki Waq]

a 49ers fan has no right to talk about poop.

 

[FrenchMovieTheme]

5-0 in superbowls boyeeeeee! tied for most superbowl wins of any nfl franchise! the only difference in the 5 superbowl win club is that we've never choked in the big game




p.s. don't say "what have they done lately!" unless you have a favorite NFL team. and if it's magically the patriots i call bullshit!

 

[Uno Ill Nino]

Resident Evil should not even be mentioned in the same sentance as The Grudge. The Grudge does not use "boo" tactics so much as it gives off that mood you mentioned earlier. Throughout the whole movie you just keep thinking, "Get out of that house! Get out of that house!" no matter how normal it may look at any given time. You just know shit is wrong there and you want to be out of there because your skin crawls just looking at it. Much in the same way you feel uneasy when watching scenes inside the bedroom in Exorcist.

I think that kind of viewpoint has a lot to do with the type of horror the author normally watches, that ultimately influences their taste.

Well said. Despite that I've seen many many horror flicks, most have originated in the U.S. I suppose that's why I have acquired a taste that makes me prefer things like Silent Hill 1 over Resident Evil 4 (story-wise, not gameplay)

 

[Kabuki Waq]

5-0 in superbowls boyeeeeee! tied for most superbowl wins of any nfl franchise! the only difference in the 5 superbowl win club is that we've never choked in the big game




p.s. don't say "what have they done lately!" unless you have a favorite NFL team. and if it's magically the patriots i call bullshit!

but you admit they are the "poop" of the NFL right now right?

 

[Prince of Space]

I just finished watching The Grudge again. Having seen both it and Ju-On, I think they both compliment and play off each other quite well; each offering different takes on the same story. That said, both are still pretty average at best.

Oh, and US Ring >>>> JP Ring.

 

[Kuro Madoushi]

Japanese horror films are dull? Try Miike Takahashi's "Audition"

The majority of it is boring as hell...just sets it up nicely for that fucked up ending though

 

[Gattsu25]

I can't speak for Ju-On as I have yet to see it, but I still don't see how people can find 'Ringu' better than The Ring.


Granted, I'm not a Japanese horror buff...hell...i've only seen a handful of live-action Japanese films...but I would love to see a newer adaptation of Audition. Only changes would be

Spoiler

to make the shift from drama to horror even more jarring and unexpected, build a greater sense of terror and horror once the movie switches styles, and recreate the entire ending scene...the son must die!!!

edit: Kuro, hell yeah! Audition RAWKs!

 

[shuri]

The only difference is budget. The same people are behind the movie, hell it's even the same lady that crawls down the stair.

 

[Gorey]

Liked the american remake of Ringu better than the original. The slicker effects and such paid off.

The Grudge, on the other hand, seemed to lose whatever it was that made Ju-On creepy. I did see Ju-On first, though...and my girlfriend (a far bigger horror fan than I am) liked The Grudge better. Maybe I just couldn't get past Buffy overemoting all over the place.

 

[Jim Bowie]

I'm not getting in to this. It's already 1:30, and if I start ranting on how much better Ju-On is than The Grudge, I'll be up for another 4 hours.

Let me be concise. The Grudge is one of the worst horror films ever made, and Ju-on is the best horror film ever made.

 

[SickBoy]

I haven't seen Ju-on (the plan was to watch the Grudge and then Ju-on). After watching the Grudge, I have no desire to.

Somewhat creepy, but overall, it just left me thinking "Well, that was pretty crappy."

Maybe I wasn't in the right frame of mind for it, but I didn't find it that scary and overall, it was a disappointment.

 

[speedpop]

Should go out and watch Shutter, recent Thai horror flick. It had it's gay moments a lot but some parts were quite fucked up. You'll never want to get a sore neck again!

Also.. sorry if I am mistaken, but you all seem to be misplacing that the Ju On stated actually is Ju On: The Grudge.

There were 2 TV production movies entitled Ju On and Ju On 2. They eventually were backstories to Ju On: The Grudge. The US remake is simply titled The Grudge.

As far as the other two are concerned, I'm contemplating on whether to give them a rental or not because as far as I know, the first one was good but the 2nd one was subpar.. so I am a bit hesitant.

 

[Teddman]

I've seen every Ju-on flick in existence, and the best of them all is the original Japanese direct-to-video version, "Ju-on: The Curse." It has a rawer feel, the scares are more creepy, more offbeat, and strangely enough, more twisted than anything in the movie versions. You also get more backstory and the way "the curse" is spread among people who come into contact with the house is explored in disturbingly clever ways. The movies feel watered down in comparison.

IMDB entry for Ju-On: The Curse and Ju-On: The Curse 2. Note that they screwed up and put the wrong movie poster in for the first Curse DVD.

You may have to import the region-free Hong Kong DVDs to see Ju-on: The Curse (there is part 1 and part 2), as it's never been released outside of Asia. Luckily, my local independent video store had them both for rent.

A little background... It started with Ju-On: The Curse on TV (about 2 hours total in two parts), then it was made into the theatrical Ju-on: The Grudge and a sequel, Ju-on: the Grudge II, and then the American The Grudge. Shimizu is currently working on a third and final Japanese movie.

I'd rank the Curse as the best, the two Grudge flicks slightly below it as a toss-up, and Ju-on: The Grudge II a distant last place. Don't bother with that one.

 

[Days like these...]

Let me be concise. The Grudge is one of the worst horror films ever made, and Ju-on is the best horror film ever made.

Please explain they are basically the same film right? I've seen the grudge thought it was pretty good. I agree with fei some people are too enamored with japan they need to get up off their collective knees... :lol

Japan > America is not always the case

 

[speedpop]

I'd rank the Curse as the best, the two Grudge flicks slightly below it as a toss-up, and Ju-on: The Grudge II a distant last place. Don't bother with that one.

Damn, well we skipped out on grabbing The Curse but went with The Grudge 2, otherwise also known as Ju On: Final or something extravagent. Next week we'll probably grab The Curse and it's your fault if we waste our money!

 

[Willco]

Let me be concise. The Grudge is one of the worst horror films ever made, and Ju-on is the best horror film ever made.

:lol

 

[Jim Bowie]

Please explain they are basically the same film right? I've seen the grudge thought it was pretty good. I agree with fei some people are too enamored with japan they need to get up off their collective knees... :lol

Japan > America is not always the case

Imagine The Grudge with a more gritty, raw feel, that they later took out in place of ultra-squeeky clean computer animation. Imagine that, instead of just making the little boy make the cat noise over and over, they actually had him be creepy as fuck. Imagine that the story made sense. Imagine it didn't have one of the worst actresses of all time trying to fake a different language. Imagine the apartment scene actually being frightening. Imagine a good ending instead of the classic Hollywood twist ending.

Then imagine while they would take out all of that and ruin such a good movie, then repackage & dumb down for American audiences.

That's the fucking Grudge. Go rent Ju-On. You'll know what I mean.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

"Imagine that the story made sense. Imagine it didn't have one of the worst actresses of all time trying to fake a different language. Imagine the apartment scene actually being frightening. Imagine a good ending instead of the classic Hollywood twist ending."

While i totally agree with your other points i have to tell you that Ju-ON was fucking incoherant. The story did not make sense, Also SMG is a much better actress on her worst days than the amateurish acting in Ju-on.

 

[Willco]

Ju-On is pretty amateurish.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

it aint no evil dead 4

 

[FrenchMovieTheme]

Imagine The Grudge with a more gritty, raw feel, that they later took out in place of ultra-squeeky clean computer animation. Imagine that, instead of just making the little boy make the cat noise over and over, they actually had him be creepy as fuck. Imagine that the story made sense. Imagine it didn't have one of the worst actresses of all time trying to fake a different language. Imagine the apartment scene actually being frightening. Imagine a good ending instead of the classic Hollywood twist ending.

Then imagine while they would take out all of that and ruin such a good movie, then repackage & dumb down for American audiences.

That's the fucking Grudge. Go rent Ju-On. You'll know what I mean.

either you are joking, or you are retarded.


first off, how did ju-on have a more gritty feel? seems that you prefer blue face paint over some (not all) computer generated graphics. that isn't more gritty, that is more retarded. secondly, the little boy in the grudge was creepy as fuck! when the husband comes in and finds the wife shocked and staring at the ceiling, then he grabs for the phone and that little bastard pops up. scared the shit out of me. what does he do in ju-on? nothing! he fucking sits there and plays piano on his knees under a table, and he still does the fucking meow in ju-on!

next up, how in the F did ju-on make sense?? what did those school girls have to do with anything? why did her friends turn to zombies? wtf? the apartment scene in both movies WAS ALMOST IDENTICAL!!!!! both times they go up the elevator you see the little kid on each floor, both times the "ghost" calls her cell phone as her brother to find out which floor shes on, both times she gets under the covers and is murdered. what movies are you watching man??

and FINALLY, how was ju-ons ending "good"? ok, the chick crawls down the stairs (which looks retarded in ju on btw), and does what? kills the girl? fine. next scene she's just sitting there making that "ahh ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh" sound. OMFG AWESOME ENDING! in the grudge, the chick crawls down the stairs actually looking scary, gets all up in the face of that guy and you are thinking holy crap! they she goes after smg, and i assume the twist ending is that smg doesn't die in the house, but instead is tracked to the hospital where she is presumably killed? we dont know, but how is that a twist? i understand you saying it sucked if the twist was SMG was the chick or something, but come on man the endings are nearly the same.

all in all i think you just hate SMG/love japanese films best and no matter how good or bad the grudge was, you were going to hate it.

 

[Jim Bowie]

either you are joking, or you are retarded.

Thanks.

first off, how did ju-on have a more gritty feel? seems that you prefer blue face paint over some (not all) computer generated graphics. that isn't more gritty, that is more retarded. secondly, the little boy in the grudge was creepy as fuck! when the husband comes in and finds the wife shocked and staring at the ceiling, then he grabs for the phone and that little bastard pops up. scared the shit out of me. what does he do in ju-on? nothing! he fucking sits there and plays piano on his knees under a table, and he still does the fucking meow in ju-on!

Ju-on had a gritty feel because it refrained from using computer generated graphics. It made the entire film feel more real, felt like it struck closer to home. It felt like the ghosts were part of the world. With the computer animation, it felt like they were really fake. Anybody worth their salt in movies can tell computer animation from real life... maybe that's why I thought it was better.

Also, Toshio in Ju-On had much more presence than in The Grudge. All of the scares in The Grudge were forced (the jaw, the girl in the community center, the phone thing, meowing every second, etc.). After the first time that Toshio meowed, it wasn't scary anymore. It was cheesy. In Ju-On, Toshio did the meow thing, hmm, twice? At most?? And you're honestly saying that when Toshio was under the table, that didn't scare the shit out of you? When Toshio was hovering over Rika's bed, you weren't in the least scared?

The reason we get shitty pop-out-and-scare-ya horror films is because nobody appreciates the suspense in horror movies nowadays. Psycho wasn't scary because you didn't know where Bates would show up next. It was scary because it kept leading up, leading up to madness. And that, IMO, is true horror.

next up, how in the F did ju-on make sense?? what did those school girls have to do with anything? why did her friends turn to zombies? wtf? the apartment scene in both movies WAS ALMOST IDENTICAL!!!!! both times they go up the elevator you see the little kid on each floor, both times the "ghost" calls her cell phone as her brother to find out which floor shes on, both times she gets under the covers and is murdered. what movies are you watching man??

Ju-On made sense because it made ties in with the rest of the story. The girl who died in the apartment was the DAUGHTER that you saw earlier, someplace they go NOWHERE with in The Grudge. You see that the grudge held never stops, regardless of what you think you can do to stop it. It shows the parallels that the daughter and father went through the exact same thing. And her friends didn't turn into zombies, I don't know where you got that. If you recall, if you're killed by the grudge (in either movie), the ghosts can use you to get to other people. As her friends were killed, and she was the only one to escape, the ghosts bided their time, waiting as her madness slowly set in (locking herself in, papering the windows, screaming at everything). Then, they made their move.

Which is what's so awesome about Ju-On! In America, we have a tendency to have most of our horror movie monsters just go on a massive killing rampage, and people die within 12 minutes of being introduced. Not so in films like Ju-On.. the monsters stalked their prey, let their prey suffer internally, go mentally unstable, and THEN go in for the kill. I think it's much more gruesome then ALL HUMAN DIE NOW!!!

That's the problem- they were ALMOST identical. One of the scariest scenes in Ju-On was RUINED by changing a few critical parts, those being-

1. The encounter in the bathroom was slightly altered. It used to have such a heavy effect presented with such finesse, but then they just changed it to a heavy-handed easy scare. Although it was still scary, it wasn't like the original, and didn't have the same effect.

2. The scene with the guard. The guard in Ju-On actually seemed to care about what was going on, while the guard in The Grudge seemed very apathetic and didn't believe her. Which, again, propagates more horror movie stereotypes, and who wants that? I want a little dynamicism in my horror, something new! Besides that, they showed the entire video in its entirety, which makes it lose it's effect when they play it AGAIN in the movie!

3. In The Grudge, as soon as she gets in bed, she's taken by the ghost. Boy, that was fast. Why didn't they keep in the scene with the TV announcer? It was such a creepy scene, it fit into Takashi Shimuza's TV creepiness theme, and it built suspense through the roof! In The Grudge, it was very anti-climatic, and I think they handled it very poorly.

and FINALLY, how was ju-ons ending "good"? ok, the chick crawls down the stairs (which looks retarded in ju on btw), and does what? kills the girl? fine. next scene she's just sitting there making that "ahh ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh" sound. OMFG AWESOME ENDING! in the grudge, the chick crawls down the stairs actually looking scary, gets all up in the face of that guy and you are thinking holy crap! they she goes after smg, and i assume the twist ending is that smg doesn't die in the house, but instead is tracked to the hospital where she is presumably killed? we dont know, but how is that a twist? i understand you saying it sucked if the twist was SMG was the chick or something, but come on man the endings are nearly the same.

First of all, I've got to address about the crawling of the girl. The only difference in the movies is that in The Grudge, she was computer animated, and in Ju-On, she wasn't. Furthermore, the cracks and pop were added in after the animation was done, so it didn't sound like The Grudge's ghost was really popping and cracking. In Ju-On, she produced the sounds as she went, making it look so realistic, and therefore, much scarier.

As for the ending, I remember posting something about it in another Ju-On thread, where I ranted much shorter than this.

In The Grudge, we don't know what happens, but it seems like SMG appeased the ghost somehow, and was now in a hospital room. The guys outside of the room said that they got to the house before it burnt down, so they were able to say it. Uh oh, guys! What's next?!?

"We beat that monster! Everything's going to be okay!"
*Monster appears*
"OOPS GUESS NOT!!!!!!!1"
*Monster kills hero, fade to black*

Classic horror movie twist ending. You didn't get the monster. Sorry heroes, you lose. It was lame. It was predictable. And furthermore, it couldn't be any further from the original ending.

In Ju-On, she indeed gets killed by the curse, but they chose a better way to show it. After the death scene black fadeaway, it cuts to shots of the town, completely empty. It stays desolate until you reach the house. You see Rika, hero of Ju-On, dead in a corner. The camera zooms in until it reaches her face. Suddenly, her eyes flash open and you can hear the creepy noise going on. Cut to black. It's supposed to imply that you can't just isolate the curse. The curse doesn't stop. Humanity is fucked. Goodbye town.

It's such a difference from every other horror movie. Either they beat the monster, or there's a twist ending "nobody expects." Fuck that. How do you kill a ghost? Correct answer, YOU DON'T. GHOST FUCKING KILLS YOU. Humans don't win! How can you prefer some lame, easily telegraphed tack-on ending to something so masterful and visionary as the latter?

all in all i think you just hate SMG/love japanese films best and no matter how good or bad the grudge was, you were going to hate it.

It is true that I hate SMG. SMG is absolutely the worst actress in Hollywood, and hasn't ever acted in something good. Or something bad, and acted good! If one girl needed acting lessons, it's her. The reason she got the role? Blonde haired bombshell with a past penchant for losing clothes. That's it. Oh, that, and I guess America wasn't ready for a Japanese lead. Otherwise, why would you cut out Rika, or, actually, just make a mention of her? It's no good.

And, it is true that I love Japanese films. I think that some of the best films ever made have come out of Japan, and I think that many directors from that region have an immense eye for cinematography. It's not true that I like Japanese films best over American films. For example, I preferred The Ring to Ringu, because I think that they removed a few cheesy parts from Ringu and cleaned it up for the American version. I also liked the male lead much more in The Ring. In my top 10 films, I have 6 American films, 2 European films, and 2 Asian films. I think it's pretty clear to see that I'm not just a "WAI WAI AINO NIHON DESUYO!!!!!!!!" kind of guy.

Finally, for that last comment, I wish you knew how wrong you were. I was so psyched for The Grudge. I saw it the first day, the first showing in my local theatre. I had seen Ju-On in the summer, and I was counting down the days in which The Grudge would be playing, because I thought it'd be relatively the same. I wanted to like The Grudge. Nay, I wanted to LOVE The Grudge. Sadly, when a movie like The Grudge pisses all over the original film, I CANNOT EVEN TOLERATE IT.

ALSO, TO KABUKI:

it aint no evil dead 4

Lord, I want me some Evil Dead 4. I love the Evil Dead series, but dammit, it's more of a dark comedy.

 

[FrenchMovieTheme]

Ju-on had a gritty feel because it refrained from using computer generated graphics. It made the entire film feel more real, felt like it struck closer to home. It felt like the ghosts were part of the world. With the computer animation, it felt like they were really fake. Anybody worth their salt in movies can tell computer animation from real life... maybe that's why I thought it was better.

so it was gritty because the effects were shitty?? wtf? i guess its personal opinion (CG effects = not gritty...) but i think the effects in the grudge went a long way in freaking people out more. honestly, you think the chick in ju-on looked scarier? ok

Also, Toshio in Ju-On had much more presence than in The Grudge. All of the scares in The Grudge were forced (the jaw, the girl in the community center, the phone thing, meowing every second, etc.). After the first time that Toshio meowed, it wasn't scary anymore. It was cheesy. In Ju-On, Toshio did the meow thing, hmm, twice? At most?? And you're honestly saying that when Toshio was under the table, that didn't scare the shit out of you? When Toshio was hovering over Rika's bed, you weren't in the least scared?

how were they forced? because it startled you at first? no, they weren't forced anymore than anything in ju-on was. the meow wasn't scary in EITHER movie! the first time or otherwise!

The reason we get shitty pop-out-and-scare-ya horror films is because nobody appreciates the suspense in horror movies nowadays. Psycho wasn't scary because you didn't know where Bates would show up next. It was scary because it kept leading up, leading up to madness. And that, IMO, is true horror.

oh here we go... "You know whats WRONG with american movies, nobody appreciates suspense! IN MY day..." blah blah, get over it dude. there are plenty of bullshit japanese horror movies that are there for cheap scares (ala boogey man and so on).

Which is what's so awesome about Ju-On! In America, we have a tendency to have most of our horror movie monsters just go on a massive killing rampage, and people die within 12 minutes of being introduced. Not so in films like Ju-On.. the monsters stalked their prey, let their prey suffer internally, go mentally unstable, and THEN go in for the kill. I think it's much more gruesome then ALL HUMAN DIE NOW!!!

wait wait, so american movies DON'T do the whole "let their prey suffer internally"?? if you want to apply that bullshit rule, go see boogeyman. dude suffers for most of his life thinking about the boogeyman, suffering mental anguish and problems along the way. would you call boogeyman a top notch horror flick? i didn't think you would.

That's the problem- they were ALMOST identical. One of the scariest scenes in Ju-On was RUINED by changing a few critical parts, those being-

1. The encounter in the bathroom was slightly altered. It used to have such a heavy effect presented with such finesse, but then they just changed it to a heavy-handed easy scare. Although it was still scary, it wasn't like the original, and didn't have the same effect.

ehh kind of foggy about this part, i haven't seen either movie in a couple months.

2. The scene with the guard. The guard in Ju-On actually seemed to care about what was going on, while the guard in The Grudge seemed very apathetic and didn't believe her. Which, again, propagates more horror movie stereotypes, and who wants that? I want a little dynamicism in my horror, something new! Besides that, they showed the entire video in its entirety, which makes it lose it's effect when they play it AGAIN in the movie!

lol! where are you getting this from?? you want something new? i think the grudge nailed it perfectly. american woman in japan, the security guard is thinking "yeeeeeah ok i'll go check it out". i loved that part. i also liked that he didn't get killed in the grudge, he had nothing to do with the house.

3. In The Grudge, as soon as she gets in bed, she's taken by the ghost. Boy, that was fast. Why didn't they keep in the scene with the TV announcer? It was such a creepy scene, it fit into Takashi Shimuza's TV creepiness theme, and it built suspense through the roof! In The Grudge, it was very anti-climatic, and I think they handled it very poorly.

i agree with the tv part, that was sweet in ju-on

First of all, I've got to address about the crawling of the girl. The only difference in the movies is that in The Grudge, she was computer animated, and in Ju-On, she wasn't. Furthermore, the cracks and pop were added in after the animation was done, so it didn't sound like The Grudge's ghost was really popping and cracking. In Ju-On, she produced the sounds as she went, making it look so realistic, and therefore, much scarier.

As for the ending, I remember posting something about it in another Ju-On thread, where I ranted much shorter than this.

In The Grudge, we don't know what happens, but it seems like SMG appeased the ghost somehow, and was now in a hospital room. The guys outside of the room said that they got to the house before it burnt down, so they were able to say it. Uh oh, guys! What's next?!?

"We beat that monster! Everything's going to be okay!"
*Monster appears*
"OOPS GUESS NOT!!!!!!!1"
*Monster kills hero, fade to black*

Classic horror movie twist ending. You didn't get the monster. Sorry heroes, you lose. It was lame. It was predictable. And furthermore, it couldn't be any further from the original ending.

wha? i don't understand how either ending was vastly different. the "twist" being that there is an extra scene where she gets out of the house and THEN is killed. plenty of american horror films (scream for instance) simply end with the hero surviving the ordeal and moving on.

In Ju-On, she indeed gets killed by the curse, but they chose a better way to show it. After the death scene black fadeaway, it cuts to shots of the town, completely empty. It stays desolate until you reach the house. You see Rika, hero of Ju-On, dead in a corner. The camera zooms in until it reaches her face. Suddenly, her eyes flash open and you can hear the creepy noise going on. Cut to black. It's supposed to imply that you can't just isolate the curse. The curse doesn't stop. Humanity is fucked. Goodbye town.

It's such a difference from every other horror movie. Either they beat the monster, or there's a twist ending "nobody expects." Fuck that. How do you kill a ghost? Correct answer, YOU DON'T. GHOST FUCKING KILLS YOU. Humans don't win! How can you prefer some lame, easily telegraphed tack-on ending to something so masterful and visionary as the latter?

:lol dude, you are reading too much into the ju-on ending. the ending wasn't bad in ju-on, i'm saying the last 5 minutes (ending sequence) were completely lame. i felt a lot of tension in the grudge as she was coming down the stairs for SMG and her bf. in ju on i said "wtf are these guys doing just scrambling around like tom and jerry"

It is true that I hate SMG. SMG is absolutely the worst actress in Hollywood, and hasn't ever acted in something good. Or something bad, and acted good! If one girl needed acting lessons, it's her. The reason she got the role? Blonde haired bombshell with a past penchant for losing clothes. That's it. Oh, that, and I guess America wasn't ready for a Japanese lead. Otherwise, why would you cut out Rika, or, actually, just make a mention of her? It's no good.

And, it is true that I love Japanese films. I think that some of the best films ever made have come out of Japan, and I think that many directors from that region have an immense eye for cinematography. It's not true that I like Japanese films best over American films. For example, I preferred The Ring to Ringu, because I think that they removed a few cheesy parts from Ringu and cleaned it up for the American version. I also liked the male lead much more in The Ring. In my top 10 films, I have 6 American films, 2 European films, and 2 Asian films. I think it's pretty clear to see that I'm not just a "WAI WAI AINO NIHON DESUYO!!!!!!!!" kind of guy.

Finally, for that last comment, I wish you knew how wrong you were. I was so psyched for The Grudge. I saw it the first day, the first showing in my local theatre. I had seen Ju-On in the summer, and I was counting down the days in which The Grudge would be playing, because I thought it'd be relatively the same. I wanted to like The Grudge. Nay, I wanted to LOVE The Grudge. Sadly, when a movie like The Grudge pisses all over the original film, I CANNOT EVEN TOLERATE IT.

i dont know dude, im not a big fan of smg but what do you expect? you want an oscar role out of a horror film? no, she did fine. i think she was superior to ju-ons lead actress (whoever it was). i will say it one more time, i can understand someone liking ju-on more than the grudge, but i can't fathom someone loving ju-on and hating the grudge. it just doesn't make sense with how similar the movies are. truth be told i did enjoy both, and i have both on dvd, but it's the little things that pushes the grudge over the top for me.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

Lord, I want me some Evil Dead 4. I love the Evil Dead series, but dammit, it's more of a dark comedy.

Its more of a Epic Horror, Comedy, Drama, Biblecal coming of age movie the way i see it.



FMT: Ju-on the ghost felt more menacing and real due to the lack of CG in the effects. CGI takes me out of horror movies usually. I prefer makeup to CG anyday.

 

[Saki]

Ju-On was much creepier.

 

[FrenchMovieTheme]

i'm cool with liking makeup vs. cg graphics. i'm NOT cool with liking shitty makeup and design (ju-on) to very good and effective cg. it's not that i'm against makeup, but the makeup in ju-on was a complete and total joke (not their fault i'm sure they were on a budget, but much like the grudge itself, i can never forgive and never forget)

 

[Kabuki Waq]

ju-on did not have crappy make up it they actually looked like dead ppl.