Don't think anyone will become evil from this scenario....with these type of crimes I always want to know how the victim's family feels.
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Oklahoma Double Execution Botched: "We're going to close the blinds temporarily."
- Thread starter KingGondo
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Don't think anyone will become evil from this scenario....with these type of crimes I always want to know how the victim's family feels.
You wouldn't. It rarely works correctly, because most people on firing squads don't actually want to kill anybody and try to avoid hitting any critical parts, so they aim for the arms, legs, the stomach - or they miss altogether.
I think the governors who are happy to execute people with untried and exceedingly painful methods qualify as becoming evil.
Japan doesn't incarcerate many people and I think only has like 100 something on death row, but I think death row conditions are shitty.
You also don't find out you're being executed until the day you're being executed and your family / legal reps. don't know until after.
Monocle
Member
Personally I believe that occasionally torturing condemned people to death can only improve the stellar record of capital punishment as a deterrent.
Also torture basically gives the state a multiplier bonus for justice. If it's just to kill criminals long after they're in custody and present no danger to society, then subjecting them to agony first has got to be even better.
Also torture basically gives the state a multiplier bonus for justice. If it's just to kill criminals long after they're in custody and present no danger to society, then subjecting them to agony first has got to be even better.
Torturing people in Guantanamo Bay obviously stopped insurgents in Afghanistan.
edit: you're being sarcastic I hope.
teh_J0kerer
Member
I don't understand this shit at all. People are rendered unconscious for surgery all the time and no one ever wakes up in the middle. Why isn't it trivial to knock these guys out and then kill them however you want?
Monocle
Member
Yeah, I think there must be a form of telepathy at play, where the extreme distress of prisoners magically conveys to distant insurgents an impulse to put down their guns and pick up American flags.
It's science.
Why don't you address the rest of my post instead of cherry picking one part and saying "laff".
Well when the old drugs worked, the person could take minutes to die but be unconscious in under a minute when chemicals reached their brain, so that wasn't really needed.
Has someone ever been on death row with a life threatening food allergy then requested that for their last meal and died before they could be injected? That'd be kind of cool. Man requests entire tub of peanut butter then..
( x‿x)
| Praxis |
Banned
I think this episode of Horizon would be very interesting for a lot of you.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vbAmu3DXk5c
It discusses a lot of what is being debated in this thread.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vbAmu3DXk5c
It discusses a lot of what is being debated in this thread.
I don't think there is any real evidence that performing the death penalty has any influence on the crime numbers.
It's still a mystery to me why it is done, death itself is not a real punishment, it's just a way to make sure the criminal will never return into society. There are other ways to be sure of that.
Or does the court assume that they will go to hell and suffer there when they die? Is that the real punishment?
Somehow, it wouldn't surprise me...
Because he has no interest in engaging in debate in good faith.
You both are disgusting for posting that.
I was thinking of expressing this in a less confrontational way, but in the end I can't hold it.
That's a direct result of trying to arrange the execution so that the executioners get to believe and/or pretend they had no personal responsibility in the outcome - and what do you know, the result is that they have no responsibility and are free to fuck it up. It is spineless and misguided. If a death penalty is just, then it shouldn't be a problem carrying it out in a straightforward way with one executioner, which is perfectly reliable. If people have to dance around it, dress it up and pretend it's something other than what it is, that's a pretty clear sign it should be abandoned altogether.
Not saying there is a point, just it would be what it would be. Human beings are a destructive force. I think we're the cruelest animals in nature.
Actually, some people do gain awareness in the middle of surgery. And let me tell you, that happening is one of the scariest things ever.
Yep. Happened to me once. Luckily, the local anesthesia still worked so I didn't feel any pain, but it's not something I'd want to experience ever again.
what do forgiveness, compassion and mercy have to do with executing them? these can be different things. In your case, we shouldn't even jail people then because people suffer in jails.
Amentallica
Unconfirmed Member
Death penalties are iffy. Personally, serial killers who premeditate murder and have an onslaught of victims and don't retain any regret can bite the bullet. But if some of you think the death penalty is the most inhumane and unnecessary product of prisons and the justice system, I beg to differ. Isolation is hundreds of times worse. Living without human contact for twenty years in a small concrete room with no chance to ever see daylight is so cruel and damaging. That's fucking torture. It's by far worse than ending someone's life, because at least then they won't experience it anymore. But this will forever go back and forth.
If I had to choose between the isolation block and death, I would ask that you kill me.
If I had to choose between the isolation block and death, I would ask that you kill me.
Just finding pleasure in a human suffering. You two share something.
| Praxis |
Banned
Until you're put in the situation of choosing, I don't think you could say for sure what you would prefer. The appeals process for a lot of these prisoners shows that not a lot of them agree with you, they'd rather prolong what little life they have in their cell for as long as possible.
I agree with you though that isolation is torture in itself, just playing devil's advocate.
Isn't this why they don't load their own weapons and only one gun is actually loaded with a live round?
Are you sure you're not thinking of The Wall?
I don't get the Batman morality. Some people, sadly, are better for society at large dead. My only issue is innocent people being on death row. Crimes based on that level of circumstantial evidence shouldn't have their supposed perpetrators executed.
I don't think it makes 'us' as 'bad' as 'them'.
Botched, pained executions are fucked up, though. Only because executed would have been informed otherwise.
I don't think it makes 'us' as 'bad' as 'them'.
Botched, pained executions are fucked up, though. Only because executed would have been informed otherwise.
What does the death penalty do that a life sentence doesnt?
Does this mean I can't come to your birthday party?
The whole "Cruel and unusual" argument could be painted and interperted however you want really.
I could formulate a valid argument that making someone stay locked down 23 hours a day in a 6x8 concrete room for the next 100 years of their life is more cruel and unusual than a quick death.
Let me ask you this question: If this story of a convicted murderer writhing in agony during a botched execution prevents one single potential murderer from pulling the trigger for fear of it happening to him, are we not a "better society" for it?
We all die, and it does not make us a lesser evolved society for feeling a sense of karmatic retribution when a man who savagely took a life loses his in the same manner.
I could formulate a valid argument that making someone stay locked down 23 hours a day in a 6x8 concrete room for the next 100 years of their life is more cruel and unusual than a quick death.
Let me ask you this question: If this story of a convicted murderer writhing in agony during a botched execution prevents one single potential murderer from pulling the trigger for fear of it happening to him, are we not a "better society" for it?
We all die, and it does not make us a lesser evolved society for feeling a sense of karmatic retribution when a man who savagely took a life loses his in the same manner.
Kaneda Shotaro
Member
The first guy shot the girl with a shotgun then watched her get buried alive? Not upset about the botched execution one bit.
Kenshin001
Member
Not sure why but you seem to consciously ignore I specifically said in my post I don't think the death penalty affects crime rates. Of course death is a punishment. Prisoners can study, play video games, read books, have relationships etc. They can still derive some pleasure from life. Removing all that, depriving them of their very existence is the ultimate punishment.
Zvonimir Boban
Banned
That is fucking stupid. Allow me to demonstrate:
Let me ask you this question: If this story of a convicted murderer writhing in agony during a botched execution enrages someone so much that they go on a killing spree against public servants, are we not a "worse society" for it?
Zvonimir Boban
Banned
Sly was tortured by nightmares the entire time he was frozen so that doesn't work either.
But he did learn how to knit, so maybe it's a wash?
It's stupid to you because it doesn't fit your personal ideology. That was kind of my point. It works both ways.
Our opinions are all based on our own little world that we live in.
Zvonimir Boban
Banned
No, it's stupid in reality because it's a bullshit imaginary scenario with no facts to support it.
You're not following things. Let's walk this back a bit.
You said that someone who gives his victim a "brutal death" deserves having the same thing happen to them. So by your logic, what does the man who gives this murderer a "brutal death" deserve?
While I'm not sure how it ranks compared to a "quick death" (which as we can see in this case isn't such a simple thing to assure), you can formulate a pretty compelling argument that long-term solitary confinement is cruel and unusual. The mental health effects are horrifying.
As to your second point, there are decades of statistics comparing different nations and states with and without capital punishment, and there's no real correlation between the presence of the death penalty and a reduction in crime. Anyone who plans out a murder well in advance probably doesn't intend to get caught. Anyone who murders impulsively isn't considering the consequences.
Machiavelli would cry at this comment.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
If this is actually true then why are the murder and crime rates in America still so high?
This is not going to change anything. Social changes are more likely change things than lowering society to barbarism.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
If anything, this will humanize the death row inmates. They have enough sense to close the blinds but are blind to what there actions will do to the population's view on the death penalty.
Humans keep proving they can't function on love alone. They need pity.
Humans keep proving they can't function on love alone. They need pity.
Ludicrous Speed
Banned
Great, now his attorney can sue someone, right? Guy is dead but attorney will still get paid for his pain and suffering.
The ironic part is those would be more humane than this debacle.
Yeah, i just confirmed what you said, If there is a lot of crime in a country does not automatically make it uncivilised, it's the way a country deals with it that makes it civilized or not. Death panality is one of the most uncivilized ways to do that.
You have to have some sort of conscience to experience it as a punishment, with death, the punishment stops.
My Uncle is being held there in Angola the prison in that video.
I think my long winded question got buried.
Anyone able to take a stab at it?
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=110053090&postcount=294
Anyone able to take a stab at it?
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=110053090&postcount=294
Doesn't Japan have something close to a 99% conviction rate? That's the really scary part to me
Yeah wonder that as well. How do they manage to kill a horse peacefully but not a human? Or are pets perhaps sometimes suffering during euthanasia as well?
JJDinomite
Banned
In an effort to make these deaths more humane, we run the risk of cases like in the OP. Personally, I don't feel to sorry for the dude because of his crime, but I do think there could be better methods of implementing the death penalty. A bullet to the brain is pretty damn effective and painless, albeit messy.
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