Support NeoGAF

[Shinobi]

your justification on why its okay for SEGA to teh suck is mind-boggling. You're making it sound like their deliberately making crap games. They're not. They're making games they think you and I want to play and that will sell. And they're mostly crap. I don't see how a next gen shift will suddenly make SEGA better.

You're already an idiiot :lol

An "idiiot"? :lol Who the fuck let you out of daycare?

No one said that Sega's making a bunch of sucky games on purpose. All I said is that Sega releasing the Daytonas, Nights, Panzer Dragoons and other such titles that fanboys love to clamour for at this point in time is a complete waste of time. So instead they're making almost nothing but B and C level games that would probably be seen as decent if they were made by most other companies, but are regarded as shit because Sega's held to a higher standard. This isn't terribly hard to figure out, even for your peanut-sized brain.

 

[Odnetnin]

An "idiiot"? :lol Who the fuck let you out of daycare?

No one said that Sega's making a bunch of sucky games on purpose. All I said is that Sega releasing the Daytonas, Nights, Panzer Dragoons and other such titles that fanboys love to clamour for at this point in time is a complete waste of time. So instead they're making almost nothing but B and C level games that would probably be seen as decent if they were made by most other companies, but are regarded as shit because Sega's held to a higher standard. This isn't terribly hard to figure out, even for your peanut-sized brain.

read what you just wrote. Please don't mock a typo. Why does SEGA releasing their titles on XBOX = waste of time. Um Fable sold. NG sold. Halo 2 sold. SEGA = not popular = no sales. Um Outrun 2 which was hyped to kingdom come sold like crap. And then there's their other games on the other consoles. I can't even think of one I'd be happy to buy/play post DC (gba exluded because AstroBoy Omega rocked). They're also too stupid to keep releasing good exlusives on the console where their titles sold; GC (monkey ball, SONIC) Sega is stupid and irrelevant. This isn't terribly hard to figure out, even for your peanut-sized brain.

EDIT:

haha.. I just realised what I wrote. Didn't treasure make the GBA game. THAT WAS AWESOME. Its the SEGA made PS2 title that sucked. :lol :lol

 

[Parallax Scroll]

I don't believe it. But I would like a Shenmue 3.

Edit: better? I wasn't aware that phrase was outlawed.

 

[Odnetnin]

I do not believe this news. But I would like a Shenmue 3.

careful now

 

[Che]

Not again! You guys will never give up, will you? These Shenmue rumors are getting ridiculous.

 

[DECK'ARD]

It's foolish to expect anything of Sega these days.

 

[Shinobi]

read what you just wrote. Please don't mock a typo. Why does SEGA releasing their titles on XBOX = waste of time. Um Fable sold. NG sold. Halo 2 sold. SEGA = not popular = no sales. Um Outrun 2 which was hyped to kingdom come sold like crap. And then there's their other games on the other consoles. I can't even think of one I'd be happy to buy/play post DC (gba exluded because AstroBoy Omega rocked). They're also too stupid to keep releasing good exlusives on the console where their titles sold; GC (monkey ball, SONIC) Sega is stupid and irrelevant. This isn't terribly hard to figure out, even for your peanut-sized brain.

First off, don't fucking tell me what to mock. You wanna start shit with me, I'll throw it back in your face.

As for why other games have sold, you're comparing games that had mass TV advertising and retailer and media hype, to games who's advertising begins and ends in game mags and comic books. Two completely different extremes, not to mention two completely different sets of budgets. OutRun 2's hype wasn't close to that of Burnout 3's, and certainly hasn't gotten the sort of glowing reviews that BO3 did.

Saying there aren't many post-DC Sega games you'd want to play doesn't mean much to me (Nintendo hasn't made much past Super Metroid that I'd spend five minutes with...who gives a fuck). Panzer, Shinobi, VF4, OutRun 2, JGRF and Nightshade (when I'm able to find it) have all been worthy of play in the only view that counts to me, mine. And Spikeout is also on the way, one of my most wanted games for many a year. That doesn't even include the sports games. But many of those games came out between 2001 and 2003, which brings me back to my original point...2004 was clearly more about releasing just enough to get by, rather then using their core franchises. My contention is that Sega is saving much of these for the next gen consoles. And hey, if I'm wrong I'm wrong...but that's the course of action I would take, and not much I've seen has shown me that they're doing anything that would be contrary to such action.

And BTW, if Sega is so irrelevant, why the fuck are you posting about them? Obviously they've got a bit of relevence yet, unless you're stupider then you look (not hard to believe I guess).

 

[Odnetnin]

First off, don't fucking tell me what to mock. You wanna start shit with me, I'll throw it back in your face.

As for why other games have sold, you're comparing games that had mass TV advertising and retailer and media hype, to games who's advertising begins and ends in game mags and comic books. Two completely different extremes, not to mention two completely different sets of budgets. OutRun 2's hype wasn't close to that of Burnout 3's, and certainly hasn't gotten the sort of glowing reviews that BO3 did.

Saying there aren't many post-DC Sega games you'd want to play doesn't mean much to me (Nintendo hasn't made much past Super Metroid that I'd spend five minutes with...who gives a fuck). Panzer, Shinobi, VF4, OutRun 2, JGRF and Nightshade (when I'm able to find it) have all been worthy of play in the only view that counts to me, mine. And Spikeout is also on the way, one of my most wanted games for many a year. That doesn't even include the sports games. But many of those games came out between 2001 and 2003, which brings me back to my original point...2004 was clearly more about releasing just enough to get by, rather then using their core franchises. My contention is that Sega is saving much of these for the next gen consoles. And hey, if I'm wrong I'm wrong...but that's the course of action I would take, and not much I've seen has shown me that they're doing anything that would be contrary to such action.

And BTW, if Sega is so irrelevant, why the fuck are you posting about them? Obviously they've got a bit of relevence yet, unless you're stupider then you look (not hard to believe I guess).

ooo. touched a nerve. PDO got a huge tv campaign. Bombed.

 

[Shinobi]

I touched a nerve? You're the one who was crying about me mocking your typo. :lol

Panzer Orta has sold more then 125,000 units, which isn't what I'd call a bomb for a linear on rails shooter. Unless of course you can find anything since Starfox 64 and not wearing a Star Wars license that's moved such numbers. For reference, that's a mere 70,000 units less then Metroid Prime 2 moved last month, a game that's supposed to be Gamecube's killer app and be seen in the same light as GTA San Andreas and Halo 2. A bomb you say? Don't make me laugh.

 

[Odnetnin]

I touched a nerve? You're the one who was crying about me mocking your typo. :lol

Panzer Orta has sold more then 125,000 units, which isn't what I'd call a bomb for a linear on rails shooter. Unless of course you can find anything since Starfox 64 and not wearing a Star Wars license that's moved such numbers. For reference, that's a mere 70,000 units less then Metroid Prime 2 moved last month, a game that's supposed to be Gamecube's killer app and be seen in the same light as GTA San Andreas and Halo 2. A bomb you say? Don't make me laugh.

I'm taking the PDO numbers = LTD. MP2E is now in its second month of sales. It will eclipse PDO like you wouldn't believe. Yes PDO bombed. And nowhere did I say I didn't think MP2E didn't bomb. It did. Hohoho. I'm interested to see how it sells in DEC when the HALO2 + GTASA impact has passed a little.

 

[Shinobi]

Hold on...first you say MP2 will blow away PDO's, then you say it's already bombed? WTF is it?

People throw the bomb word around way too often, as if they know what a company was targetting for that particular game's sales. If Panzer Orta met sales objections and made a profit, it's hardly a bomb. And considering Sega probably paid next to nothing in license fees to develop it, I reckon profit was pretty easy to reach.

Not every game has to sell 1 million units to make money...if they did, then 90% of all games sold would be bombs, which doesn't make much sense.

As for MP2, I expect it to be a pretty good slow burn game with positive word of mouth. MGS3 should be a classic case of slow burn...the positive word of mouth is overwhelming, and should quickly end all the idiot "OMG IT BOMBED!!!11" noise that was quickly shouted out a few weeks ago.

 

[J2 Cool]

I was thinking about this the other week. The way they were pioneers graphically last generation, had me thinking if they did make Shenmue III, they'd probably begin right now and try and have it ready for launch. This would make it a premiere game for any graphics whores, would have everyone knowing of the game, and get the chance to push the boundaries first. I definetly think they have the talent. You see, one thing I'm worried about next gen, is developers without artistic talent. These games with low poly characters, hiding behind this generations limitations, are going to be really struggling when people demand highly detailed characters. With the technology there, it will really become about the talent of the artists. Just wait until someone like the MGS series, or Shenmue raises the bar.

 

[AniHawk]

I touched a nerve? You're the one who was crying about me mocking your typo. :lol

Panzer Orta has sold more then 125,000 units, which isn't what I'd call a bomb for a linear on rails shooter. Unless of course you can find anything since Starfox 64 and not wearing a Star Wars license that's moved such numbers. For reference, that's a mere 70,000 units less then Metroid Prime 2 moved last month, a game that's supposed to be Gamecube's killer app and be seen in the same light as GTA San Andreas and Halo 2. A bomb you say? Don't make me laugh.

Hey, I love me my Panzer Dragoon Orta, but it did quite poorly in retail. It only moved about 95,000 or so for an entire year. I don't think it broke through the 100,000 mark until after it'd been on the market for 12 months. That's pretty bad, especially for one that received a good amount of advertising.

Your whole thing about trying to compare it to Metroid Prime 2... that's just weak, and has no place in your argument other than to rile him up and make you look a tad desperate.

 

[Shinobi]

I see it as being relative. Too many games sell 100,000 units now for that sort of figure to be considered a bomb. Unless as I said before, 80% of all games released are bombs. What did anyone expect an on-rails shooter to sell in this day and age?

Comparing it to MP2 was simply showing how relative numbers can be. Orta wasn't being badged as a system seller the way MP2 was. It did receive a lot of advertising on TV, but it's still a pretty tough sell. I guess those who expected it to sell a half million units or more see it as a bomb, but I figured 200,000 was about as well as it could do.

 

[AniHawk]

Comparing it to MP2 was simply showing how relative numbers can be.
Orta wasn't being badged as a system seller the way MP2 was. It did receive a lot of advertising on TV, but it's still a pretty tough sell. I guess those who expected it to sell a half million units or more see it as a bomb, but I figured 200,000 was about as well as it could do.

Uh-huh.

I see it as being relative. Too many games sell 100,000 units now for that sort of figure to be considered a bomb. Unless as I said before, 80% of all games released are bombs. What did anyone expect an on-rails shooter to sell in this day and age?

I don't know... it was the first series with any previous success in the industry since Star Wars and Star Fox, wasn't it? Weren't those pretty big successes? Might explain peoples' expectations. I remember many predicting it would sell over 100k its first month here. If the game had sold twice what it has now, I'd consider it a success, ad campaign included. The game bombed on the Xbox. Whether it's due to the fanbase will probably forever be unseen due to Sega's inaction of porting it to another system in due time, but I doubt everyone at Sega was thinking to themselves, "well what did we expect, rails-on shooters are dead! We should have seen this coming!"

 

[Ghost]

I'd kill most of the people in this thread for Shenmue 3 on next gen consoles but alas, sega doesnt invest in developments like the uber-expensive shenmue anymore.

 

[Shinobi]

Uh-huh.



I don't know... it was the first series with any previous success in the industry since Star Wars and Star Fox, wasn't it? Weren't those pretty big successes? Might explain peoples' expectations. I remember many predicting it would sell over 100k its first month here. If the game had sold twice what it has now, I'd consider it a success, ad campaign included. The game bombed on the Xbox. Whether it's due to the fanbase will probably forever be unseen due to Sega's inaction of porting it to another system in due time, but I doubt everyone at Sega was thinking to themselves, "well what did we expect, rails-on shooters are dead! We should have seen this coming!"

Oh they sold very well in Japan, on a system that was actually selling well at the time. Over here, I'd be amazed if the two games combined came close to 100,000. Isn't like Saturn was a software selling haven in North America.

I'd say the one game that really bombed was Panzer Saga...many critically acclaimed Saturn games had no problem moving 300,000 units or more in Japan, yet I'm not sure Panzer Saga (a game that was actually requested mind you) even got to 50,000 over there, which to this day I find inexplicable.

 

[Xellos]

I was thinking about this the other week. The way they were pioneers graphically last generation, had me thinking if they did make Shenmue III, they'd probably begin right now and try and have it ready for launch. This would make it a premiere game for any graphics whores, would have everyone knowing of the game, and get the chance to push the boundaries first. I definetly think they have the talent. You see, one thing I'm worried about next gen, is developers without artistic talent. These games with low poly characters, hiding behind this generations limitations, are going to be really struggling when people demand highly detailed characters. With the technology there, it will really become about the talent of the artists. Just wait until someone like the MGS series, or Shenmue raises the bar.

I agree. If Sega is ever going to make Shenmue 3 they should shoot for the PS3 or Xenon launch window. Being a launch game, especially one with good graphics and a known franchise, can really help sales. Just look at games like DOA3, Project Gotham, Munch, Rogue Leader.

 

[Meier]

I bought Shenmue and Grandia 2 at the same time back in the day.. played Shenmue but the voice acting was just so awful that I put it down in favor of Grandia 2 and never went back. It really was that bad and anyone who claims it wasnt, is deluded.

 

[enjoy bell woods]

You're deluded, Creed.

 

[Shinobi]

I bought Shenmue and Grandia 2 at the same time back in the day.. played Shenmue but the voice acting was just so awful that I put it down in favor of Grandia 2 and never went back. It really was that bad and anyone who claims it wasnt, is deluded.

:lol Bitch please...everyone's got their own preference. Some people don't like chocolate, such is life. I wouldn't play five minutes of Grandia 2 or almost any traditional RPG if you put a loaded gun in my mouth because the genre is a piece of shit, but that doesn't mean the rest of the world should feel the same way.

 

[snapty00]

THE REAL NEWS IS THAT PEOPLE STILL CARE ABOUT SHENMUE.

Oh, snap, I just done it.

 

[teiresias]

Shenmue is the inevitable trainwreck that happens when a Japanese developer tries their hand at a "Morrowind"-esque quasi free-form game. Layer on top of that some incredibly tedious and boring tasks, horrible voice acting, a ridiculous gay subplot resulting in an orgy on an aircraft carrier and you have the pain equivalent to forcing a straight man to watch bisexual, transgendered S&M porn involving scat.

 

[Shinobi]

Funny, that's how I've described the RPG genre :lol...except it also has the obvious added level of being a playground for sex-starved, middle-aged pedophiles.

 

[Ghost]

The combat and development systems in Shenmue were what made it such an incredible RPG, to this day ninja gaiden is the only real time multi enemy combat system that compares to the level of depth and fludity in Shenmue.

 

[Sinatar]

The combat and development systems in Shenmue were what made it such an incredible RPG, to this day ninja gaiden is the only real time multi enemy combat system that compares to the level of depth and fludity in Shenmue.

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

I like Shenmue as much as anyone, but give me a fucking break.

 

[karasu]

Funny, that's how I've described the RPG genre :lol...except it also has the obvious added level of being a playground for sex-starved, middle-aged pedophiles.

Well, I agree with your arguments, but boooooooo here

 

[Ghost]

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

I like Shenmue as much as anyone, but give me a fucking break.

I play a lot of action games and none of them feel as good as Shenmues fighting system, its VF with multiple enemies and its perfectly implemented. ( Im specificallytalking about Shenmue, Shenmue 2 was a little faster and a bit buggy i found)


What others do you think are better?

 

[J2 Cool]

I will say that the battles got better and better in Shenmue 2 until the ending. You really learn new moves throughout and the counters are really great. And the way they implement all your skills into the final battle(s). It was a great system. Not sure how it competes with some of the best but it's pretty good.

 

[Sinatar]

I play a lot of action games and none of them feel as good as Shenmues fighting system, its VF with multiple enemies and its perfectly implemented. ( Im specificallytalking about Shenmue, Shenmue 2 was a little faster and a bit buggy i found)


What others do you think are better?

Give Buffy on Xbox a try, it completely trounces Shenmue's combat system, as does Collectives other brawler Indiana Jones and the Emperors tomb.

I really really didn't like Shenmues fighting sytem, it felt really really choppy to me.

 

[karasu]

Give Buffy on Xbox a try, it completely trounces Shenmue's combat system, as does Collectives other brawler Indiana Jones and the Emperors tomb.

I really really didn't like Shenmues fighting sytem, it felt really really choppy to me.

I loved Shenmues fighting system. IMO the only non fighting game that trumps it is Ninja Gaiden. Everything Shenmue did with MArtial Arts as far as learning moves, sparring and shadowboxing to perfect them, was gold.

 

[firex]

I loved shenmue's MA stuff. Didn't really care for the story or the "experience" but the fighting and QTEs were pretty awesome. I wish other developers would have copied at least the QTE elements for other cutscene-heavy games... It's a criminally underused bit of gameplay.