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[Rei_Toei]

Some weeks ago I watched Alien Vs. Predator at a friend's home since there wasn't anything else to watch and I was vaguely interested. Surely my appreciation for the movie would be greater with some more knowledge about the Aliens and Predators (at that time, virtually none), but I wasn't too impressed. The Aliens and Predators however, were very cool, so I rented Predator some time ago. While being kinda cheesy to watch twenty years after it was shot, the Predator is of course still bad-ass. So, I decided to explore the Alien side of the story some more with the first three Alien movies. (Spoilers to follow – even though everyone has probably already seen the movies)

Ridley Scott's Alien remains my favourite after watching the movies mentioned above. Even though some elements give away the period in which it was made, it seems way less period 'bound' then the typical '80's action flick Aliens. I think it’s quite an accomplishment, especially for a Sci-Fi movie. While pretty cool in it's own way, Aliens seems to me like the noisier, less subtle, more blockbuster-esque little ADHD brother of the more mature Alien. However, still a very enjoyable movie, with great action sequences. Especially Ripley’s Mecha fight with the Mother Alien was awesome.

Alien³ is more complex to judge then the other two I think. Some of the acting is really outstanding (especially Charles Dance als Clement is great! For a long time I was suspecting he was a robot, the first two movies make you kinda paranoid about it, I guess), and Pete Postlethwaite (David) is always fascinating to watch because of his performance and totally freak appearance. The whole set-up of highly religious prisoners with the sickest backgrounds was something that could've been fleshed out more, but the atmosphere of the movie (everything busted up, location filled with sicko's, religious undertones, second in command basically being a retard, the weird accents, the Dog-Alien) was pretty good.

However, Alien³ also seemed the most inconsistent, non-logical of the three. Why didn't Ripley, after finding out she was infected, kill herself earlier on? Why didn’t she kill the Alien on her own, since it wasn’t going to hurt her? Why was it so important Dillon (Charles S. Dutton) was with her? The only reason I can think of is she wanted to make sure the Alien was killed before she killed herself (so she could die with the knowledge the threat was gone), but why was Dillon being there so important? First she wanted him to kill her, he won't, the he sacrifices himself so she can live a little longer. Big WTF moment. Now I've got some questions for those people better versed in the series:

1 The spaceship in Alien has a huge, fossilized pilot. Was this a Predator ship, carrying Aliens for the hunt? Seems the most logical when you have watched Alien Vs. Predator before Alien (highly illogical, I know, but that's where I ended up). Was this something that was worked out already when the script was written (the whole Alien/Predator relation), or is it something that was worked out many years later ? Which would mean the Alien spaceship and why it was there were just supposed to remain a mystery? In other words, was the whole Alien-Predator linking something planned all along or though out after Predator?

2 The Nostromo picked up the spaceship's beacon. If I remember correctly, it took the company grunts stationed at the planet dozens of years to locate the (pretty big) spaceship. Any explanation given for this in Alien/Aliens that I missed? Since it just seemed so weird.

3 The Marines in Aliens talk about the expedition being another 'Bug Hunt'. At first this made me think they had already encountered Aliens, which obviously wasn't the case later on. Just a remark without meaning, or did they encounter other types of species already? It almost sounded like something out of Starship Troopers..

4 Is Alien: Resurrection worth watching? It's bashed a lot, but so is Alien3 which I could still kinda enjoy even though it was quite the departure from Alien and Aliens. I'm kinda curious how the story develops after the first three, so I'll probably watch it anyway but I'm curious how others feel about Jeunet's movie. On a sidenote, Predator 2 is trashed even harder, should I bother watching it?

5 Are there any plans to expand the Alien universe, or will it remain where it is now, with four movies? It seems a AVP2 is possible/planned, but I'm less interested in that after seeing how awfully weak AVP is compared to the Alien movies. It makes me have little hope for AVP2, even though something like a modern-world society or a future society getting overrun with Aliens (like the native South-Americans seen in the flashbacks in AVP) sounds cool (Dawn of the Dead post-apocalyptic society combined with Alien universe FTW).

 

[iapetus]

For those in the UK, HMV is selling the Alien Quadrilogy box set (2-DVD versions of each of the 4 films and an extra DVD on top) for £19.99, which seemed like a bargain to me.

 

[DCharlie]

1 Don't think so

2 Nope. Just that

3 Other species - "...except the one you were with was male!"

4 Resurrection = no. Predator 2 > Predator 1 IMO and has the odd alien reference

5 Rumour has it that Predator 3 and Alien 5 depended on the success of AvsP - not heard anything since.

 

[HyperZone<3]

good stuff eh.

Today at the dining hall, UAA, some dudes I sit with were fervently discussing the possibilites of xenomorphs with force powers. That's right, Jedi Aliens. It wasn't a short conversation either, I'm talking about 10 minutes(after I got there) of rambling about the ins and outs of Aliens having Jedi crap, what they would use, under what circumstances, and so on.

It might have been the geekiest thing I've ever witnessed. I just had to share that.

 

[Prospero]

1. Alien vs. Predator isn't canonical. So, no.

2. I don't think that Weyland-Yutani had had a settlement there for "dozens of years", but I'd have to go back to check. But for now my answer is no (and based on my memory of the canonical director's cut).

3. DCharlie is right here, but the line of dialogue is pretty much a throw-away. Aliens privileges character development over worldbuilding (which is why it's great SF). Don't look for explanations of every single thing.

4. Alien: Resurrection is interesting if you've seen Jean-Pierre Jeunet's other movies, but that's about it. As a film in the franchise it craps all over continuity, and features some of Joss Whedon's worst writing (cue defenders saying "But Fox/Jeunet ruined his creative vision", etc.)

Incidentally, the "workprint" version of Alien 3 is also worth viewing--though it's not canonical, I think it's superior to the theatrical cut.

5. Don't know.

 

[FlameOfCallandor]

ALIENS is one of the best movie ever. James Cameron is a god.

 

[Pudding Tame]

Regarding 1 and 3.

1. The spaceship was supposed to remain a mystery and was definatly not a predator ship as I doubt Predator was even concieved of when Alien was released.

3. The bug hunt reference was meant as an homage to the Heinlein's Starship Troopers which was one of his primary insparations for Aliens. In fact when James Cameron was asked why he didn't want to direct Starship Troopers he responded that he already made that movie.

Don't try to look for connections between the Alien and Predetor movies, as they don't exist. (with the fanboy exception in the Predator ship in Predator 2)

AVP was simply meant as a cash stunt a la Freddy vs. Jason.

 

[Bloodwake]

I've only seen Alien and Aliens, and they are tons better than Aliens vs. Predator.

Alien was more like a well-written horror movie in space. Great film, and my favorite of what I've seen.

Aliens was more of a safeties-off action film, and that worked for me too.

Aliens vs. Predator: The only image I remember is of the Predator and the protagonist woman running in slow-motion (I call it the Baywatch run) out of the pyramid under the Earth. In other words, this movie sucks.

First two Alien movies FTW.

 

[mrklaw]

For those in the UK, HMV is selling the Alien Quadrilogy box set (2-DVD versions of each of the 4 films and an extra DVD on top) for £19.99, which seemed like a bargain to me.

depends if you already bought the trilogy when it came out for loadsamoney. Then its £20 for a movie where the alien looks like Sloth from The Goonies.


I must be a masochist. Every time I go into HMV when they have a DVD sale I spend 90% of the time mentally punching myself for buying DVDs when they first come out

 

[h1nch]

I've only seen Alien and Aliens, and they are tons better than Aliens vs. Predator.

Alien was more like a well-written horror movie in space. Great film, and my favorite of what I've seen.

Aliens was more of a safeties-off action film, and that worked for me too.

Aliens vs. Predator: The only image I remember is of the Predator and the protagonist woman running in slow-motion (I call it the Baywatch run) out of the pyramid under the Earth. In other words, this movie sucks.

First two Alien movies FTW.

IAWTP

 

[DaCocoBrova]

There are only 2 Alien movies. The first and its sequal. The others do not exist.

 

[DCharlie]

3. The bug hunt reference was meant as an homage to the Heinlein's Starship Troopers which was one of his primary insparations for Aliens. In fact when James Cameron was asked why he didn't want to direct Starship Troopers he responded that he already made that movie.

the other thing about the reference is to show an overly cocky and bored set of marines. They were used to winning...

"is this going to be a stand up fight sir or another bug hunt?"

maybe further emphasised by

"... how do i get out of this chicken shit outfit?"

 

[SteveMeister]

Interesting perspective. One thing that you miss about Aliens though, having had 20 years pass, is that Aliens was really the first time the concept of "future marines" was brought to the screen in a realistic, believable fashion (even to the point of casting a real Marine drill sergeant -- Al "Sgt. Apone" Matthews was the first African American to be promoted to Gunnery Sergeant in the US Marines). The concept/formula has been imitated to death since Aliens' release, but Aliens was the first (and is still the best IMO).

It's just such a fantastic movie on all fronts. Definitely one of the best sci-fi movies ever released.

 

[h1nch]

The fact that Aliens holds up so well in the visuals department (not just FX but set design, costumes, the whole works) is a testament to how great JC is at doing kick ass action flicks.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

I love both Alien and Aliens for different reasons. Alien is more of a horror film in a sci-fi setting, while Aliens is more of a pure action movie. Both have been imitated to death since their releases. Both hold up well today.

Alien 3 was ok. It has some nice elements to it, but it never really lived up to the hype. You can read all kinds of reports as to what happened in productiont o screw things up and change the story they had intended. I do remember seeing trailers in the theater long before it's release that showed a field of stars with the tagline "In space, no one can hear you scream..." (tagline for Alien), then the camera pans to show earth and the words "...but on Earth, everyone can hear you scream". Indicating to all that the next Aliens film would take place on Earth. Speculation ran wild, but the movie we got didn't live up to that.

Alien Resurrection was a disaster. Avoid at all costs. Predator 1 and 2 were fun, campy movies that don't live up to the Alien films imho, but are still enjoyable. Before Pred. 2 there was no indication that the Aliens and Predators were existing in the same Universe. In that film, there is a brief scene where the Predator displays his tropies on his ship, and amongst them is the head of an alien. This inspired all kinds of comic books and games, and finally the recent, mediocre movie. For the record, some of the comics were actually kind of fun.

 

[buck naked]

I went into Alien Resurection with an open mind and I really liked it. I really enjoyed another trip through the Alien's universe, I thought some of the action sequences were awesome and the connection with many of the key themes in the series was strong.

 

[madara]

There are only 2 Alien movies. The first and its sequal. The others do not exist.

Diddo! I make sure to watch them once a year. Anything after these two is just "nightmares" that ripley, hicks and newt are having in cryo..IMO.

 

[fallengorn]

4. Alien: Resurrection is interesting if you've seen Jean-Pierre Jeunet's other movies, but that's about it.

QFT... it's a big departure from the others.

Alien3 was plagued with a lot of problems. There were a lot of rewrites and William Gibson even penned a version. It's somewhere on the web. It's mostly a Hicks/Bishop story since at the time Sigourney Weaver didn't want in.

We'll always have Alien and Aliens I guess.

I went in expecting AVP to be atrocious and I have to say it’s one the best horrible-yet-hilarious movies. How the hell did anyone who read the script think this was worthwhile to film? It just reinforced my opinion that Paul WS Anderson is one of the worst directors out there. He even weaseled his way out of a question in a Q&A on why the movie is terrible. He said that the studio intervened during editing and that most of what he wanted was left on the editing floor… but no one has acknowledged that there were any excess scenes that were cut out.

 

[Uncle]

2 The Nostromo picked up the spaceship's beacon. If I remember correctly, it took the company grunts stationed at the planet dozens of years to locate the (pretty big) spaceship. Any explanation given for this in Alien/Aliens that I missed? Since it just seemed so weird.

IIRC, they weren't looking for the ship until Ripley was saved and Weyland-Yutani told them to go look for it.

 

[MomoPufflet]

You mentioned that Predator is kind of cheesy 20 years later-- I dunno, personally I think it isn't cheesy at all. There is never a time in the film where I think "oh man, this is so 80's" like in the Running Man or Commando (not that those movies aren't awesome). That's one of the reasons Predator kicks so much ass-- it holds up incredibly well. They could release it in theaters today and not have to explain anything.

In my opinion AVP is already more dated than Predator is. So many things in the movie date it specifically to THIS time.

 

[ghibli99]

You mentioned that Predator is kind of cheesy 20 years later-- I dunno, personally I think it isn't cheesy at all. There is never a time in the film where I think "oh man, this is so 80's" like in the Running Man or Commando (not that those movies aren't awesome). That's one of the reasons Predator kicks so much ass-- it holds up incredibly well. They could release it in theaters today and not have to explain anything.

Agreed 100%. Predator works because the technology in the film isn't futuristic, and the Predator's weaponry and technology is based largely on that of our own world, and could fit into any time period and seem plausible. The cast takes the threat of the Predator seriously, too, which is so critical for a movie like this, and it's a situation that would push any person to the brink. Then there are the lines, man... the entire movie is quotable, as any good '80s action movie should be, with strong characterizations -- you know what Bill Duke is all about the moment you see him show up in a suit and obsessively shaving in the 'copter. It just all works so well... it walks the fine line between aspects of action, scifi, adventure, and military genres, and succeeds.

 

[Shogun]

1.) They were ( non-canon ) a huge race called Space Jockeys - Wikipedia

 

[FoneBone]

Fox is currently moving ahead with AVP2 for summer '07, instead of Alien 5 or Predator 3. Rejoice.

 

[DaCocoBrova]

I no longer have Aliens in my collection. Is there a re-mastered/enhanced version out?

 

[Dan]

There are only 2 Alien movies. The first and its sequal. The others do not exist.

Yup. That said, Alien is far, far superior.

 

[MomoPufflet]

I no longer have Aliens in my collection. Is there a re-mastered/enhanced version out?

You mean other than the collectors edition released a few years ago?

 

[DaCocoBrova]

You mean other than the collectors edition released a few years ago?

I seem to recall it being a box set, and not a stand alone. The Collector's Edition has a re-done transfer?

 

[Instigator]

Yup, same thing with Terminator 2. Watched that the other day and it still looks great after fifteen years of CGI advances. I can't wait till James Cameron gets back to action flicks, nobody does 'em like he does.

Come on, the CGI is primitive.

But the rest does hold up.

 

[MomoPufflet]

There are stand-alone versions of all 4 films in the quadrilogy set (the same in every way only packaged individually). So it's the same transfer as the quadrilogy version (which is new).

 

[moist]

good stuff eh.

Today at the dining hall, UAA, some dudes I sit with were fervently discussing the possibilites of xenomorphs with force powers. That's right, Jedi Aliens. It wasn't a short conversation either, I'm talking about 10 minutes(after I got there) of rambling about the ins and outs of Aliens having Jedi crap, what they would use, under what circumstances, and so on.

It might have been the geekiest thing I've ever witnessed. I just had to share that.

If it was the cuddy center that was me.

 

[Prospero]

I seem to recall it being a box set, and not a stand alone. The Collector's Edition has a re-done transfer?

It's a new transfer, if I recall correctly.
And even if it isn't, you should own it anyway, because the extras are some of the very best you'll ever come across. Even if you don't ever watch extras, you'll watch these, and love it.

(I haven't watched the Quadrilogy edition of Alien Resurrection yet, but the extras for the first three movies are all incredible, especially for Alien 3.)

 

[MetalAlien]

(In steps the expert)
1) The Alien ship from part one transformed during the making of the film. Originally it was merely another victim of the Alien. There was a large sillo on the plant that held the eggs and a pictograph describing the life cycle of the alien. For budget reasons all that was combined into just a derelict ship with eggs in the cargo hold. Doesn't make as much sense, but oh well.

The reason the Space Jockey (it's nickname) looks the way it does is because H.R. Giger designed everything about the Aliens, the ship, and the planet. His style ALWAYS looks the same. In fact if you could see more of the Planet "set" you'd see the same biomechanical style.

2) Cameron never fully explained, but he did hint that the Derelict was damaged from Volcanic activity (special edition) When the family of Newt finds the Ship it's hull is broken.

3) Bug hunt, is the fond name the marines give to yet another wild goose chase they get sent on without finding anything. They are sent out anytime someone reports an alien or UFO and up into this encounter and never actually found something.

4) hate Alien res, it's almost a comedy. LOVE LOVE PredatorII. It's a different animal than part 1, but it's almost pure violence. It's one of the first movies to NOT have the calm middle "catch your breath" 20 minutes that most action movies have..

5) the problem being Alien was so well made and is so well respected that everyone and their brother who was involved trys to take credit, and wants a say in where the series will go in the future. The Series is literally a victim of it's own success. The real problem is they have NOTHING new to add, so they keep trying to repeat Ripley in space alone with the aliens... they simply can't imagine the series without her and they are absolutely UNwilling to make a new one in the style of Aliens.

 

[MomoPufflet]

It's a new transfer, if I recall correctly.
And even if it isn't, you should own it anyway, because the extras are some of the very best you'll ever come across. Even if you don't ever watch extras, you'll watch these, and love it.

(I haven't watched the Quadrilogy edition of Alien Resurrection yet, but the extras for the first three movies are all incredible, especially for Alien 3.)

Yep. The documentaries in the Aliens SE (Quad edition) are fantastic. They answer every question you could possibly have about the production, and are well-edited to boot. Comparitively, I recently watched all the extras in the T2 ultimate edition and was not nearly as satisfied as I was with Aliens. The Predator SE was good, but I had to watch the director's commentary to get anywhere close to the completeness of the Aliens docs (I have yet to listen to the whole Cameron commentary). The subject matter itself is also especially interesting, as there are so many real-world visual tricks used in the film. There was not one shot or special effect I was left wondering about after watching the Aliens SE.

The quad extras are easily in my top 5 (or possibly 3) favorite DVD supplementaries ever.

 

[Synbios459]

Are there any good books involving the Aliens or Predators?

 

[MetalAlien]

Are there any good books involving the Aliens or Predators?

Well there are dozens of comics some of which are very good, mostly the earlier stuff. But Evil no pictures books? Possibly, but I never sought out such things.

There are 100s (if not 1000s) of fan written scipts online.. I could point you in the right direction.

 

[Systems_id]

Come on, the CGI is primitive.

But the rest does hold up.

I dunno man, it looks alot more believable than the CGI fest that was Terminator 3. T2 had a gritty feel while T3 felt more like an effing cartoon.

 

[Wendo]

Sadly, I watched both movies the whole way through for the first time last year. And I truly think that both were ruined in the sense that I had already seen so many knockoffs first. Alien held up the best, but Aliens just felt like generic space action sci-fi (when it really invented the modern genre).

 

[C4Lukins]

I'm sorry you had to see Alien vs. Predator first. I was lucky to see Aliens when I was about ten, and didn't even know what the monsters were supposed to look like. I saw Predator a year or two before that, same deal, had no idea what the movie was about. To see the joke that both franchises have become first, and then go back to the classic originals just seems wrong.

 

[SpoonyBard]

For those in the UK, HMV is selling the Alien Quadrilogy box set (2-DVD versions of each of the 4 films and an extra DVD on top) for £19.99, which seemed like a bargain to me.

£18 at play.com

It's almost worth that for the documentaries alone.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

Aliens was always my favorite of the bunch.

God, I wish they would just pull a Highlander and make the rest of the series past 2 like it wasn't part of continuity and James Cameron back at the helm of course.

 

[SpoonyBard]

It's shame Renny Harlin didn't direct the third movie like it was planned at one stage, the whole "wooden planet" thing they had going was pretty interesting.

 

[C4Lukins]

It's shame Renny Harlin didn't direct the third movie like it was planned at one stage, the whole "wooden planet" thing they had going was pretty interesting.

That would have been to fucked up. They had sketches of half alien half horses, where literally the top half was an alien and the bottom half was a horse. And a bunch of non materialistic monks on a wooden planet, while visually interesting, is not an Alien movie.

If they were to make a new one, I hope they either pretend like 3 and 4 never happened (both decent enough films, but both took a hammer to the overall storyline), and continue the Ripley plotline from Aliens, or just start over. I don't mean remake Alien, but have completely new characters discovering the species under completly different circumstances. And keep it off of Earth. That was a bad idea to. Who wants to see Aliens running up the side of the Sears tower. Predators belong on Earth, Aliens in space.

 

[SpoonyBard]

That would have been to fucked up. They had sketches of half alien half horses, where literally the top half was an alien and the bottom half was a horse. And a bunch of non materialistic monks on a wooden planet, while visually interesting, is not an Alien movie.

I think that would have been better than what we got now. Fincher's "let's just shoot some scenes and let the studio sort it out" strategy didn't quite work that well, and even the new DVD version is a mess (altough better than the theatrical version). Harlin would have at least made it an entertaining action movie.

 

[Dead]

Renny Harlin? :lol



...Renny Harlin??!? :lol

It's shame Renny Harlin didn't direct the third movie

??????? Am I reading this right???

No matter how bad Alien 3 may have been, I can't believe for a second that of all people, Renny Harlin could've produced a better movie. Shit I mean that's at least one thing Alien 3 had going for it. Hey it was bad, but not directed by Renny Harlin bad!

 

[SpoonyBard]

Renny Harlin? :lol



...Renny Harlin??!? :lol





??????? Am I reading this right???

No.

 

[Kevtones]

Guess I'm one of the few that genuinely likes Alien 3 (particularly the quadrilogy extended version). Fincher did a decent job. Interesting themes/idea abound for sure.

 

[SpoonyBard]

No matter how bad Alien 3 may have been, I can't believe for a second that of all people, Renny Harlin could've produced a better movie. Shit I mean that's at least one thing Alien 3 had going for it. Hey it was bad, but not directed by Renny Harlin bad!

Eh, I don't get where that insane hate is coming from. Sure, Harlin's movies are not cinematic masterpieces by any measurement, but he makes entertaining action movies. Much better choice as a director, than a first time director who didn't know what the hell he was doing, or a French guy who mostly does quirky comedies.

 

[DaCocoBrova]

The effects hold up very well IMO.

 

[Tat]

I got sad the other day when I was ordering some DVDs and I couldn't find a box with all the movies only the newest one..

 

[FlameOfCallandor]

Aliens 3 was a horrible horrible mess. It was a step back from the second, because in the second you had all these bad ass marines who you think are going to kick ass but in reality get their balls ripped off. The third was a bunch of pansy prisoners trying to kill the aliens with a nail on the end of a board.