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[gtmax]

I bought the new OPSM and it had the demo!!!

There are four tracks to choose from. Speediapolis, marco strada, and two more i think, but i can't remember the names. NO 'ring i'm afraid.

Depending on the track you choose they give you different cars for it. I picked a tracka nd chose the R32 volkswagen. On to the driving imrpessions then:

The demo, first of all, has a date of Dec'04. Since then at least one thing has changed, mainly the visual gravity indicator.

The default control option has a clutch on L1. The itneresting thing is that R analoge button is designated to 'camera', which is different from the button to change perspective. So you are forced to accelerate with the X button.

Physics-wise this feels like Gran Turismo...if gran turismo was 5x more realistic. That is, it's like GT but without all the holding of hands. It makes GT3 seem arcade as it actually is and it is more realistic than GT4. The R32 was hard to throw around. Later i tried the little Miata from teh movies of the game and it handled very much alike a totally different car from the R32.

Drifting seem easy enough althouh i can't look at the VGS and race at the same time. I also tried the Audi Race car. They only let you race it on the oval track. TI got up to about 200mph and the sense of speed was great. AS you go faster the peripheral view bcomes distorted and fades, giving you a great sense of speed.

My beef with the game that i noticed are the following:

Collission with walls seems GT-ish. That is, you kinda bounce off. Also i was not blown away by the engine sounds. I was playing on a crappy TV (19" WEGA) but the sounds didn't stand out. The best sounds for me still belong to Juiced.

As i was playing the game i coudln't help but to ask myself how the casual gamers will take to these physics. The game had aids turned on (TCS) and it was still very challenging to drive properly. I

Be back with more imrpessions as i play more.

ps., the game doth delivers if you're looking for a console SIM that's more SIM than GT4.

 

[AlphaSnake]

Juiced is no where near as good sounding as Need for Speed: Underground 2 for PC. NFSU2 fucks up every racing game when it comes down to sound. Nothing comes close.

 

[mashoutposse]

Agreed, NFSU2 sound is ridiculous. I couldn't believe my ears the first time I heard it.

 

[gtmax]

Damn you guys pick the littlest thing out of this game and run with it. NFSU:2 is shit compared to a game like SRS. Sound might be better but that's about it. I have the full retail version of JUiced that came out in England and the sound of V8s is inferior to none.

Enthusia is the real deal though. I doubt the physics will change by the time it releases in two weeks (Japan). i hope this demo works with the DFP.

 

[mashoutposse]

Nice impressions, though.

In what ways are the physics a step up? I'm interested to know how they handle off-the-line behavior (PD totally neutered this, I guess for user friendliness).

 

[AlphaSnake]

Damn you guys pick the littlest thing out of this game and run with it. NFSU:2 is shit compared to a game like SRS. Sound might be better but that's about it. I have the full retail version of JUiced that came out in England and the sound of V8s is inferior to none.

Enthusia is the real deal though. I doubt the physics will change by the time it releases in two weeks (Japan). i hope this demo works with the DFP.

SRS is a steaming pile of crap, dude. There is no better rice-racer than NFSU2 for the PC.

 

[Sgt. Killjoy]

I found out the free OPM subscription came with a disc.

woot.

 

[Ryudo]

Juiced is no where near as good sounding as Need for Speed: Underground 2 for PC. NFSU2 fucks up every racing game when it comes down to sound. Nothing comes close.

NFSU2 is the only game to get car sounds right. They only have a couple to do though.

 

[DarienA]

Damn you guys pick the littlest thing out of this game and run with it. NFSU:2 is shit compared to a game like SRS.

Enthusia is the real deal though. I doubt the physics will change by the time it releases in two weeks (Japan). i hope this demo works with the DFP.

SRS? The game with the lack of speed and mind numbingly dumb crash physics? Riiiight.

As for your Enthusia is more realistic than GT claims I have one simple question.... is that with driving aids off or on? Cause I get the feeling that's with Gt's driving aid's on.

 

[AlphaSnake]

NFSU2 is the only game to get car sounds right. They only have a couple to do though.

But the thing is with NFSU2 is that any given car doesn't sound the same. You put on a new set of headers/exhaust/intake, and your car sounds different. You throw a turbo in it, and once again, your car sounds different. You upgrade performance parts to level 2 and again...different. The combination of the parts you use changes the sound of the car all the time, and that's a commendable achievement that everybody has looked over. I dislike EA's practices as much as the next guy, but dammit if the Need for Speed team doesn't kick ass with every new iteration.

 

[SHOCKIE]

I have the full retail version of JUiced that came out in England and the sound of V8s is inferior to none.

Juiced has not been released in england.link

 

[gtmax]

As for your Enthusia is more realistic than GT claims I have one simple question.... is that with driving aids off or on? Cause I get the feeling that's with Gt's driving aid's on.

You mean playing Enthusia with driving aids on, or playing GT with them on? The physics, especially when you consider that this is Konami's first SIM, are much more realistic than GT4. Doesn't matter how you compare the games. Of course this makes it harder to control the cars, harder than GT4. Because of that i'm afraid that this game will not be wholely embraced like GT1 was.

It'll be a shame if it doesn't do well. If you like GT4 because of its physics, this game does it a step better since they're more accurate.

 

[Ryudo]

But the thing is with NFSU2 is that any given car doesn't sound the same. You put on a new set of headers/exhaust/intake, and your car sounds different. You throw a turbo in it, and once again, your car sounds different. You upgrade performance parts to level 2 and again...different. The combination of the parts you use changes the sound of the car all the time, and that's a commendable achievement that everybody has looked over. I dislike EA's practices as much as the next guy, but dammit if the Need for Speed team doesn't kick ass with every new iteration.

I was just saying that it would be harder, much much harder for someone like PD to do sounds in the same fidelity considering their car lists.

I was very suprised when i loaded up NFSU2 for the first time, the car sounds were like nothing i had ever heard in a game.

 

[DarienA]

You mean playing Enthusia with driving aids on, or playing GT with them on? The physics, especially when you consider that this is Konami's first SIM, are much more realistic than GT4. Doesn't matter how you compare the games. Of course this makes it harder to control the cars, harder than GT4. Because of that i'm afraid that this game will not be wholely embraced like GT1 was.

It'll be a shame if it doesn't do well. If you like GT4 because of its physics, this game does it a step better since they're more accurate.

My question is with driving aids off you find Enthusia to be more realistic than GT4? That's interesting... then again you think SRS is better than NFSU2 so I question you're judgement right off the bat.

 

[AlphaSnake]

I was just saying that it would be harder, much much harder for someone like PD to do sounds in the same fidelity considering their car lists.

I was very suprised when i loaded up NFSU2 for the first time, the car sounds were like nothing i had ever heard in a game.

Oh I know. I was just adding that despite a smaller car list (50-some cars is still a good number though), EA goes through the trouble of adding a bunch of different effects for every single (mechanical) performance part in the game -- different turbo levels have different spooling effects, different NA parts always change the cars growl, etc. The sound in correlation to performance parts equipped is so varied and distinct it's awesome.

 

[gtmax]

I'm speaking physics here, Darian. SRS is a thousand times more realistic than NFSU:1 when it comes to physics.

Stick to arcade games topics please.

 

[Rhage]

Damnit people, less Need for Speed crap, more Enthusia impressions!

 

[DarienA]

I'm speaking physics here, Darian. SRS is a thousand times more realistic than NFSU:1 when it comes to physics.

Stick to arcade games topics please.

NFSU:2 is shit compared to a game like SRS. Sound might be better but that's about it.

That is what you said... (2, not 1), and that statement is incorrect. The physics in SRS which includes the crash physics are TERRIBLE... have you crashed in SRS? Have you hit another vehicle head on? NFSU2 doesn't have the greatest crash physics either but they certainly are better than what happens in SRS when you crash. Don't get me wrong I own 2 and SRS and I like them both... but NFSU2 in every facet is leagues better than SRS.

 

[SolidSnakex]

So howabout that Enthusia.

 

[mashoutposse]

How are the physics an improvement? Can you lock the brakes at least?

 

[SolidSnakex]

marvelharvery will probably be in this thread soon and give us some more detailed impressions of the game. Here's what he's said about it in previous threads

I’m certainly not an Ayrton Senna, but I’ve been racing in someform or another since I was 7 (I’m now 30). Anyway, bringing this post back on topic (and away from what I get up to in my spare time), the Papyrus games, GTR, and Enthusia all go out of their way to simulate what happens in the real world, and do it perfectly, that is who cars handle! In games such as GT4, Forza and Project Gotham, the developers have strived (and succeeded) to create games where the cars handle how the average joe ‘thinks’ race cars behave.Ultimately, this is why they are mass-market success, otherwise they’d alienate most of the potential purchasers and lose sales.

Enthusia's car handling is spot on, and I do mean perfect! (see another thread I posted in) But without any tracks or car lists I can't make an objective decision on it yet. But I'll reiterate that again, the car handling is perfect.

And a comment by the US GT4 producer from a 1up interview

Right now, there are two other games coming out that follow our way of thinking. Microsoft is working on Forza, and Konami has Enthusia. Konami, I think, may be taking the whole notion of realism perhaps a little too seriously, but if they get it right, it will maybe last longer.

 

[op_ivy]

My question is with driving aids off you find Enthusia to be more realistic than GT4? That's interesting... then again you think SRS is better than NFSU2 so I question you're judgement right off the bat.

personally, i dont think even with all assists off in GT, that it feels all that realistic. i think both forza and even ferrari f355 have more realistic car behaviors, and especially enthusia, based on the e3 demo.

EDIT: and any word on if the enthusia demo supports the dfp wheel? if so, i gotta hunt down a copy

 

[mashoutposse]

Sounds like Konami came through...

 

[SolidSnakex]

Sounds like Konami came through...

Yep, it was a delayed though. Comes out on the sameday as Forza now, May 3rd. It is the cheapest of the sims at 39.99.

 

[Lord Error]

OK, since this thread has become more about sound than it is about Enthusia...

Alpha, how does PSP's NFSU sound compared to NFSU2? Car sounds I mean, not the music.


Also, to gtmax and others who complain about the GT3/4s physics engine: How do you guys explain those split second equal driving times pro drivers make when driving their car of choice in GT games, compared to what they do when they drive that same car on that same track in real life?

 

[Arcticfox]

EDIT: and any word on if the enthusia demo supports the dfp wheel? if so, i gotta hunt down a copy

I have a Driving Force (non-pro) and it works with the demo. I don't know about the Pro, but I assume it will work, too.

 

[shpankey]

NFSU2 is the only game to get car sounds right. They only have a couple to do though.

Nope, Grand Prix Legends did. It still to this day has the best, most realistic and impressive sound in a racing game ever.

P.S.

I’m certainly not an Ayrton Senna, but I’ve been racing in someform or another since I was 7 (I’m now 30). Anyway, bringing this post back on topic (and away from what I get up to in my spare time), the Papyrus games, GTR, and Enthusia all go out of their way to simulate what happens in the real world, and do it perfectly, that is who cars handle! In games such as GT4, Forza and Project Gotham, the developers have strived (and succeeded) to create games where the cars handle how the average joe ‘thinks’ race cars behave.Ultimately, this is why they are mass-market success, otherwise they’d alienate most of the potential purchasers and lose sales.

this man ^^^ knows what the hell he's talking about!

 

[gtmax]

Easy, Marconnelly. GT4, previous games can't be considered since physics were different, is a good SIM so long as you're simply driving and driving straight and not pushing the car to 100%. They can get those close times when they drive properly. But how many people actually worry about getting a good start at the line and instead smash the gas full throttle?

If i'm gonna play a SIM it is to be able to do what i can do in a real car. GT4 is very good but i have a feeling Enthusia will be much more accurate, thus much better. Right now all these little cars are no piece of cake to throw around. The physics engine seems very, very deep.

I noticed a problem though while using the DS:2. it seems that when you turn the car wants to keep in that direction after you let go of the stick. It's as if the wheels don't return right away. This caused me to slam into the walls several times.

The demo has TCS always turned on as well as ESC or something like that. Even with TCS on i managed to do several spinouts adn i kept losing the back end. I see no indication for ABS so far. HOpefully you can turn it off.

Last i drove a Merc DTM race car. Sense of speed was great and i'm getting a hang of the physics so i had a great lap - too bad there's no replay though.

I also hate the HUD and hope that they'd change it. I want an RPM gauge as well as a MPH gauge. Also there's no redline indication in the RPM thing.

Oh and the graphics. They're excellent but not as real looking as GT4. They do look more 'coherent' than most racing games. That is, everything looks like it belongs. GT4 uses a lot of 2D for scenery and sometimes it looks...inconsistent.

 

[mashoutposse]

Yep, it was a delayed though. Comes out on the sameday as Forza now, May 3rd. It is the cheapest of the sims at 39.99.

I guess that'll give me more time for GT4. It'll be a nice "next step" as far as the driving model is concerned.

gtmax, can you lock the brakes in the game? Is it easy to keep the straight when accelerating hard from a standstill?

 

[Lord Error]

Easy, Marconnelly. GT4, previous games can't be considered since physics were different, is a good SIM so long as you're simply driving and driving straight and not pushing the car to 100%. They can get those close times when they drive properly. But how many people actually worry about getting a good start at the line and instead smash the gas full throttle?

What you said here goes against the "they control how average Joe thinks the cars should control" comment above. I doubt average joe would drive any of the racing cars properly (like I assume those pro dirvers would when they achieve simillar times) I mentioned GT games in general as I remember some driver had similar demonstration with GT3 too, but times weren't as close or accurate as now with GT4.

Trust me, I'm really easy on this one, but also really curious. Btw. I have zero knowledge of how racing cars behave so I can't pretend to be any kind of authority. I'm well aware that many people think GT's physics aren't all that, so there must be something there if many people think so. On the other hand there's those drivers and their times (and their comments even, where they praise the game). Could it be that GT games warp the reality a bit trying to simulate the driving experience a bit better, taking into consideration that your body doesn't move so you can never experience the car like if you're in it? I mean, the game could 'bend' the rules like the arcade games do (when they want to bring that extra feeling od speed for example), just not as much? Then again, the bending of rules would probably not help achieveing close driving times as in real life. In other words, I have no idea...

 

[slidewinder]

Also, to gtmax and others who complain about the GT3/4s physics engine: How do you guys explain those split second equal driving times pro drivers make when driving their car of choice in GT games, compared to what they do when they drive that same car on that same track in real life?

Any links? People are running the Nurburgring Nordschliefe in under 5 minutes in GT4, when the real-life record is 6:11 or so. GT4 (sport and race, anyway) tires are definitely way more grippy than real-life ones, for one thing. Maybe with all the aids turned off and "normal" tires (those times are with the softest racing tires) the gap would close some. Of course, in a video game, you can push the envelope a lot more, because a wreck doesn't destroy a multimillion dollar car and possibly kill you, which would account for some difference.

There is also the fact that you can easily get one of the high-end cars to 330+ MPH on the test course, which would be pretty unthinkable AFAIK in real life, though.

 

[mashoutposse]

There was an article in the new EVO about Nurburgring and setting a new world record in the virtual world of GT4. The author surmised that the sub-6 minute times are the result of eliminating the "I could kill myself doing this" factor. He didn't bring up any qualms he may have had with the physics/handling.

 

[Lord Error]

Any links?

Unfortunatelly no, but I'm sure tons of people here read that and know what I'm talking about. They had those demonstrations with some drivers, Kazunori Yamauchi was there also, talking to them etc.

There is also the fact that you can easily get one of the high-end cars to 330+ MPH on the test course, which would be pretty unthinkable AFAIK in real life, though.

Yeah, I think the point would be using the same car as you'd use on a real track, not some crazy souped up monster that would never be allowed to race in real life. You're also probably right about the recklessnes factor. When you know you can't die, you can risk a lot more, and although you may crash many times trying, once in a while you'll get it right, and shave off some seconds.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I think what Marco is talking about was a guy that was on the Nissan driving team who drove a Skyline on the Nur and then went and drove the same car in GT4 and came within 3secs of his real life time.

 

[Rhage]

Any links? People are running the Nurburgring Nordschliefe in under 5 minutes in GT4, when the real-life record is 6:11 or so.

How do we know that's real? Is that an official GT4 site? Is there any movie of it being done?

 

[mashoutposse]

Yes there's video evidence

 

[shpankey]

to be honest, i don't know how much faith i would have in the argument about some racer's time's matching. sounds an awful lot like PR to me. first, we know Sony is not below faking this kind of stuff. just like they faked one of their movie reviewers giving a great review to one of their movies... which was all a sham as it turned out. second, a time matching doesn't necessarily mean that it was because the game was a perfect match to real life. in reality, someone could have a time from an oval track, and i could have a time from a straight line dragstrip that matched, by coincidence. in essence, a developer could take a time from someone, then have that driver race their game, then tweak their game until the driver got around the same time. just by adding a little track here or there. it wouldn't then mean the game is a match to realit, but just that they got their times to match to then use that for PR purposes... which Sony loves, no doubt.

not that i'm denying GT4's physics. to me, i was one of the people who thought GT3's physics and "sim" ness was incredibly overrated, and stated as such. but GT4's physics have made massive improvements from it IMO and have finally, just now approached Grand Prix Legends level of physics. of course, they're not at the level of Papyrus's masterpiece of physics Nascar Racing 2003 Season though (which is a 4 time over repolished GPL engine). but GT4's physics are damn impressive nonetheless.

to me though, physics are just one part of being a sim, and while a very important part, in no terms is the only attribute of a great simulation. sadly, GT4 leaves out almost every other single category of being a true sim (damage model, superb A.I., cockpit view, etc.). as it stands now.... GT4 really isn't even a racing game at all. it's more of a hotlap simulator. there is very little actual racing ever going on as the A.I. is flat out atrocious. really. i love how the A.I. tries to slam in to you (on purpose) at the start of a race. this is one of the shitty means the game uses to make it's races competitive; and then the game gives you a "5 second penalty" because the A.I. hit you, where you can't accelerate until the 5 seconds expires. i mean, that's fucking laughable A.I.! :lol oh yeah... that's some REAL sim stuff there! :lol drivers in real life always slam into their competion at the start of a race! :lol

i'm pretty excited about getting to try out Enthusia. i hope it's all it's hyped to be.

 

[Rhage]

Yes there's video evidence

Link?

 

[slidewinder]

How do we know that's real? Is that an official GT4 site? Is there any movie of it being done?

Here's a video of a guy running it in 4:54.

Yeah, I think the point would be using the same car as you'd use on a real track, not some crazy souped up monster that would never be allowed to race in real life.

Those times on that granturismo.de site are from arcade mode, so they should be with "stock" gt4 cars other than the tires. It could also be that the cars used (Mercedes Sauber C9, Nissan R89) are that much faster in real life than the Porsche 956 that set the real world record, for all I know.

I brought up the 330 MPH issue more as a point that made me think GT4's physics were less than totally realistic. I hadn't heard of the Skyline thing that you guys are talking about; maybe it's just that the physics break down some when you get to the extremes.

The game's plenty realistic for my tastes and (weak-sauce) abilities, it just surprised me that it would be *that* realistic.

[edit] It does look like the Nissan R89 (one of the cars on that GT4 scoreboard page) has a pretty substantial horsepower (180ish) and power/weight advantage over the real-world record holder Porsche.

 

[FeedMeAStrayCat]

Ugh. I played a Forza demo a week or so ago at a Circuit City and bleh.. sure it was a demo and such, and I must have sucked something awful because it was damn near impossible for me to stay on the road (no problem at all in GT games), but it just wasn't much fun. Of course, that's my initial impression of a 5 minute demo I played in a Circuit City, so don't hold me to it.. :lol

EDIT: I just realized this thread was about Enthusia and not Forza. Hmm.. well I have nothing to say about Enthusia then. :lol

 

[SolidSnakex]

Here's a video of a guy running it in 4:54.

And to think, I was really happy about finnaly getting under 6minutes on the Nur.

 

[Lord Error]

to be honest, i don't know how much faith i would have in the argument about some racer's time's matching. sounds an awful lot like PR to me. first, we know Sony is not below faking this kind of stuff. just like they faked one of their movie reviewers giving a great review to one of their movies...

I agree that the whole thing sounds a bit like PR, but just to remind you, Sony's movie department is a corporation in itself and has next to nothing in common with SCEJ who arranged that presentation.

second, a time matching doesn't necessarily mean that it was because the game was a perfect match to real life. in reality, someone could have a time from an oval track, and i could have a time from a straight line dragstrip that matched, by coincidence.

The same track and the same car (and the same driver) were used in the game and in the real life. They had a similalr experiment with GT3 btw. but the times weren't so close as with the GT4.

in essence, a developer could take a time from someone, then have that driver race their game, then tweak their game until the driver got around the same time. just by adding a little track here or there. it wouldn't then mean the game is a match to reality, but just that they got their times to match to then use that for PR purposes... which Sony loves, no doubt.

If you are thinking that they re-constructed the track to match the time, that seems pretty far fetched, IMO. That would mean changing the track's original length, and I think that could probably be fairly easy verified by other devs or hackers who could extract tracks model and measure it. If they tweaked the physics engine, I don't see anything wrong with that, though.

 

[nasanu]

I brought up the 330 MPH issue more as a point that made me think GT4's physics were less than totally realistic. I hadn't heard of the Skyline thing that you guys are talking about; maybe it's just that the physics break down some when you get to the extremes.

The game's plenty realistic for my tastes and (weak-sauce) abilities, it just surprised me that it would be *that* realistic.

[edit] It does look like the Nissan R89 (one of the cars on that GT4 scoreboard page) has a pretty substantial horsepower (180ish) and power/weight advantage over the real-world record holder Porsche.

I have to question your numbers here. Do you mean 330 kilometers or miles?.. Because the Blitz GTR can do 330k's in real life but nothing can do 330 miles.

And 180ish is pretty substantial horsepower?.. Since when? Maybe you mean 1080hp?


Anyway personally I think GT4's physics are excellent. Too many people judge GT4 buy GT3 and thats wrong. GT4 is a totally new physics engine and makes GT3 look like Ridge Racer. I don't really care if the physics may or may not break when you do stupid things like build a 4000hp mini. Give me a skyline with all aids turned off and stock tyres and I am in heaven. I really find it hard to fault the driving model.

And if enthusia is as good or better then great

 

[slidewinder]

I have to question your numbers here. Do you mean 330 kilometers or miles?..

Miles per hour. Any of the high-end cars in this game, with the best turbo and tall gearing can do 320+ MPH on the test track. It helps to cut the down force and soften up the suspension some, but even without, 310 or so should be no problem. Try it. I hit 332 in the Toyota Minolta a couple days ago, but that took some pretty serious tweaking.

Because the Blitz GTR can do 330k's in real life but nothing can do 330 miles.

That was my point.

And 180ish is pretty substantial horsepower?.. Since when? Maybe you mean 1080hp?

180 is the approximate difference in horsepower between the two linked cars. The Porsche is also a little lighter, though, so the power/weight difference is not as great.

Anyway personally I think GT4's physics are excellent ... Give me a skyline with all aids turned off and stock tyres and I am in heaven. I really find it hard to fault the driving model.

I like the physics, too. But, even with aids off and N1 tires, the game still doesn't seem anywhere near as unforgiving as, say, Live for Speed or Grand Prix Legends on the PC, or even F355 on the Dreamcast. Maybe I am just more used to the GT series physics engine's quirks, having played it more.

And if enthusia is as good or better then great

I plan on checking it out for sure.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

so this is the Poor Man's GT?

 

[gtmax]

Enthusia accurately compared to a real car on a real track:

 

[Fafalada]

I mean, the game could 'bend' the rules like the arcade games do (when they want to bring that extra feeling od speed for example), just not as much?

Actually - GT does bend the rules - but most Arcade games don't have rules to bend - they write their own.
Take stuff like Initial D, RR, Outrun2 for example - their "simulation" isn't trying to represent a vehicle on wheels, the best analogy would be rolling around a marble with a projection of carframe attached to it (the "drifting" is actually just rotating the carframe some degree relative to the actual movement).

 

[GXAlan]

I don't know how you guys can talk about realistic physics when using the dual shock... The inputs for the gamepad and FF steering wheel are totally different.

 

[marvelharvey]

marvelharvery will probably be in this thread soon and give us some more detailed impressions of the game.

I've been living under a rock the past 48 hours, I didn't even know there was a demo out! :lol

Anyway, today's mission is to find a copy and start giving it some proper testing (with wheel+pedals). I'll post some detailed physics impressions in a couple of days, possibly resulting in the boringest thread ever.

 

[Folder]

Juiced is no where near as good sounding as Need for Speed: Underground 2 for PC. NFSU2 fucks up every racing game when it comes down to sound. Nothing comes close.

Given that every car in GT4 had its sound studio recorded through the rev range, I think that somewhat takes the prize.