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[Blader]

I am a casual filmgoer. I also don't really know the names of most actors or celebrities. The only movies I make it a point to see in theaters are the yearly Pixar installments. I have watched all the Oscar nominees this year except BB though, and I do think Dark Knight was a better film than Frost/Nixon and The Reader.

As for the acting... maybe it was just the lines they had to work with, but for most of the supporting cast it felt pretty blah. I guess that's what they're supposed to do, though--support unobtrusively--so maybe they succeeded in that. And while I suppose Ledger was a supporting actor in the sense that he wasn't in the name of the movie, in all other respects he felt like one--he commanded attention in every scene he was in, and was in more than any of the other actors except Bale. Considering that Twoface had a pretty brief run he was Batman's only real rival and played at least as important a part as he did--if anything, it felt like Batman existed only to shed light on his personality. So... maybe it's just because I'm a casual filmgoer and I don't understand the subtleties that go into the designation, but to me it seems like whatever arbitrary standard was applied to TDK to make Ledger a supporting actor could just as easily have been applied to Frost/Nixon to make Langella one.

Anthony Hopkins dominated Silence of the Lambs and turned in one of the best acting performances ever, but he is only a supporting actor because his role in the film was as a villain (and a secondary one at that). It's the same deal with Ledger and the Joker.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

Anthony Hopkins dominated Silence of the Lambs and turned in one of the best acting performances ever, but he is only a supporting actor because his role in the film was as a villain (and a secondary one at that). It's the same deal with Ledger and the Joker.

But Anthony Hopkins got the Best Actor award.

 

[Blader]

But Anthony Hopkins got the Best Actor award.

Oh

Never mind then.

 

[Zeliard]

Anthony Hopkins dominated Silence of the Lambs and turned in one of the best acting performances ever, but he is only a supporting actor because his role in the film was as a villain (and a secondary one at that). It's the same deal with Ledger and the Joker.

It's different with Hopkins. He actually won Lead Actor for the role, despite only having 20 or so minutes of screentime. And that's because he was unquestionably the main male character, alongside Jodie Foster as the lead female. Hopkins was just as critical as Foster to the movie despite having a fraction of her screentime.

It's not about screentime, it's about importance to the overall plot and movie, relative to other characters. Ledger's Joker is indeed supporting, along with everyone else. It's an ensemble cast in The Dark Knight. Joker, Batman and Dent are the three co-leads, and all are supporting each other.

If there's any protagonist at all in TDK, it's Batman, since he's the one having to deal with everything from all sides - however, the character with the biggest and most visible arc throughout the film is Harvey Dent/Two-Face, and the character who has the most overall impact is easily the Joker.

So... maybe it's just because I'm a casual filmgoer and I don't understand the subtleties that go into the designation, but to me it seems like whatever arbitrary standard was applied to TDK to make Ledger a supporting actor could just as easily have been applied to Frost/Nixon to make Langella one.

Not at all. Langella was quite clearly lead in Frost/Nixon. The entire film is about him. He wasn't supporting anything - the entire rest of the movie was supporting him.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

I wouldn't even give Ron Howard the title of poor man's Spielberg. That's still too good a title.

I think the man knows how to direct a film with great restraint - in that his directorial style never impinges on the story by drawing attention to itself. This is especially the case in Frost/Nixon. However, his directorial style - which so often reveals his lack of visual aestheticism never serves to enhance the film's narrative. If people were ever looking for a filmmaker to apply the term 'textbook' to it would be Ron Howard.

Furthermore, those claiming Spielberg hasn't been as good as his former self in years need to get their heads out of their asses. Munich is by far Spielberg's most aesthetically impressive film. Too many people go out of their way to criticise Spielberg because they either

a) want to appear educated by citing an important filmography that is large enough to make their future opinions seem informed.

or

b) can't see past the last Indiana Jones flick and judge the man's entire body of work over the last 15 years according to their impressions from that one film.

 

[dmshaposv]

Yeah the spielberg hate is unwarranted.

Minority Report and Munich are solid proof that Spielberg still got it. Minority Report is also in fact one of the best sci fi films of this decade (behind children of men)

 

[Evlar]

I'm glad to see Frost/Nixon opening in a local cineplex today. I haven't seen it yet or Slumdog Millionaire.

 

[beelzebozo]

I wouldn't even give Ron Howard the title of poor man's Spielberg. That's still too good a title.

you lowered yourself to responding to one of my posts, even though it didn't use capital letters. impressive.

and whether or not spielberg is your cup of tea at this point depends on what you want from him. while munich is technically a more mature film than something like e.t., let's say, his work has lacked the love of film and intangible "spielberg magic" that made him so famous.

 

[dmshaposv]

Oh also while we are at it, Alexandre Desplat's work in CCBB is fucking amazing. My favourite soundtrack of the year, way above slumdog millionaire. But I know the academy will award Rahman.


Edit: Sample from CCBB

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4hp__ogqrM

<3

 

[Darko]

Speilbers only miss was the god awful Indiana Jones movie... like them or not A.i, War of the world, Minority Report and muchich were all excellently directed films.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

Speilbers only miss was the god awful Indiana Jones movie... like them or not A.i, War of the world, Minority Report and muchich were all excellently directed films.

Not to mention Catch Me If You Can.

 

[Alucard]

Yeah the spielberg hate is unwarranted.

Minority Report and Munich are solid proof that Spielberg still got it. Minority Report is also in fact one of the best sci fi films of this decade (behind children of men)

Minority Report is quite excellent. Heck, I would have given him War of the Worlds if it wasn't for a few annoying continuity and plot points. I reeeeaaaally wanted to love that movie, and I did at first, but by the end I could only heave a sigh of disappointment.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

ron howard is a poor man's stephen spielberg. and even stephen spielberg has been a poor man's stephen spielberg for about ten years. so ron howard is like poorer man's stephen spielberg. destitute.

Funny, I only really like Spielberg in the last 10 years. His early stuff is manipulative and shallow for the most part*. He really grew up in the 90s. I suppose he's still a master manipulator, but his films have more to them from Schindler's List onward.

* Not that he didn't make a few great popcorn flicks, but overall, very shallow.

 

[Blader]

Minority Report is quite excellent. Heck, I would have given him War of the Worlds if it wasn't for a few annoying continuity and plot points. I reeeeaaaally wanted to love that movie, and I did at first, but by the end I could only heave a sigh of disappointment.

I thought War of the Worlds was really great up until the terrible ending.

 

[dmshaposv]

BEST MOTION PICTURE OF THE YEAR
"Slumdog Millionaire"
(Fox Searchlight) A Celador Films Production; Christian Colson, Producer

PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTOR IN A LEADING ROLE
Sean Penn in "Milk" (Focus Features)


PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTOR IN A SUPPORTING ROLE
Heath Ledger in "The Dark Knight" (Warner Bros.)


PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN A LEADING ROLE
Kate Winslet in "The Reader" (The Weinstein Company)

PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN A SUPPORTING ROLE
Penélope Cruz in "Vicky Cristina Barcelona" (The Weinstein Company)


ADAPTED SCREENPLAY
"Slumdog Millionaire" (Fox Searchlight) Screenplay by Simon Beaufoy

ORIGINAL SCREENPLAY
"Frozen River" (Sony Pictures Classics); Written by Courtney Hunt


BEST ANIMATED FEATURE FILM OF THE YEAR
"WALL-E" (Walt Disney) Andrew Stanton

ACHIEVEMENT IN ART DIRECTION
"The Curious Case of Benjamin Button" (Paramount and Warner Bros.) Art Direction: Donald Graham Burt, Set Decoration: Victor J. Zolfo


ACHIEVEMENT IN CINEMATOGRAPHY
"Slumdog Millionaire" (Fox Searchlight) Anthony Dod Mantle

ACHIEVEMENT IN COSTUME DESIGN
"The Duchess" (Paramount Vantage, Pathé and BBC Films) Michael O'Connor


ACHIEVEMENT IN DIRECTING
"Slumdog Millionaire" (Fox Searchlight) Danny Boyle

BEST DOCUMENTARY FEATURE
"Man on Wire" (Magnolia Pictures) A Wall to Wall Production, James Marsh and Simon Chinn

ACHIEVEMENT IN FILM EDITING
"Slumdog Millionaire" (Fox Searchlight) Chris Dickens

BEST FOREIGN LANGUAGE FILM OF THE YEAR
"Waltz with Bashir" (Sony Pictures Classics) A Bridgit Folman Film Gang Production; Israel

ACHIEVEMENT IN MAKEUP
"The Curious Case of Benjamin Button"
(Paramount and Warner Bros.) Greg Cannom


ACHIEVEMENT IN MUSIC WRITTEN FOR MOTION PICTURES (ORIGINAL SCORE)
"Slumdog Millionaire" (Fox Searchlight) A.R. Rahman


ACHIEVEMENT IN MUSIC WRITTEN FOR MOTION PICTURES (ORIGINAL SONG)
"Jai Ho" from "Slumdog Millionaire" (Fox Searchlight) Music by A.R. Rahman; Lyrics by Gulzar

ACHIEVEMENT IN SOUND EDITING
"The Dark Knight" (Warner Bros.) Richard King


ACHIEVEMENT IN SOUND MIXING
"WALL-E" (Walt Disney) Tom Myers, Michael Semanick and Ben Burtt

ACHIEVEMENT IN VISUAL EFFECTS
"The Curious Case of Benjamin Button" (Paramount and Warner Bros.) Eric Barba, Steve Preeg, Burt Dalton and Craig Barron

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Predictable oscars are predictable. I think these will be the eventual winners.

 

[beelzebozo]

schindler's list is definitely my favorite of his body of work.

perhaps that's the connection i'm making between spielberg and howard without realizing it: a lot of their films can be construed as overly sentimental and manipulative. i can imagine a universe in which a lot of their films are switched--spielberg directing apollo 13, cinderella man, frost/nixon, a beautiful mind. . . and howard fits right in with spielberg's more touchy-feely stuff like the terminal, a.i., catch me if you can, etc.

it's not really fair to his newer work, but my favorite spielberg will always be the early stuff: close encounters, raiders, empire of the sun, and even duel

p.s. i realize this post makes me sound like an indie hipster talking about a now successful band's early albums before they sold out

 

[Zeliard]

Minority Report is quite excellent. Heck, I would have given him War of the Worlds if it wasn't for a few annoying continuity and plot points. I reeeeaaaally wanted to love that movie, and I did at first, but by the end I could only heave a sigh of disappointment.

War of the Worlds has a terrible script with some gargantuan plot holes, but you can't really fault Spielberg for that. He did the best he could with what he had. In the hands of most other directors, War of the Worlds would have been a lot worse.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

schindler's list is definitely my favorite of his body of work.

perhaps that's the connection i'm making between spielberg and howard without realizing it: a lot of their films can be construed as overly sentimental and manipulative. i can imagine a universe in which a lot of their films are switched--spielberg directing apollo 13, cinderella man, frost/nixon, a beautiful mind. . . and howard fits right in with spielberg's more touchy-feely stuff like the terminal, a.i., catch me if you can, etc.

it's not really fair to his newer work, but my favorite spielberg will always be the early stuff: close encounters, raiders, empire of the sun, and even duel

p.s. i realize this post makes me sound like an indie hipster talking about a now successful band's early albums before they sold out

You're dreaming if you think Ron Howard would dare to approach the subject matter of A.I. or have the skill to pull off Catch Me If You Can. Munich is probably Spielberg's least manipulative movie ever; never offering up any answers or sympathies for either side, yet still remaining quite poignant. I love love love Empire of the Sun and hold it alongside Schindler and Munich as his best work. He has continually grown since his early films, both in terms of technique and the depth to which he explores his subject matter.

 

[Alucard]

War of the Worlds has a terrible script with some gargantuan plot holes, but you can't really fault Spielberg for that. He did the best he could with what he had. In the hands of most other directors, War of the Worlds would have been a lot worse.

As petty as it might seem, I had big issues when you saw the working video camera, after the movie had taken great lengths to mention that ALL power and devices were rendered useless.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

As petty as it might seem, I had big issues when you saw the working video camera, after the movie had taken great lengths to mention that ALL power and devices were rendered useless.

Doesn't make it a bad film. War of the Worlds is a phenomenal film. It's literally the fact that the son is alive at the end that undermines the believability of the film. The fact that everything up until that point felt so visceral and real makes Robbie's being alive seem all the more implausable when you see him run to the top of a mountain that EXPLODES.

 

[rezuth]

[B]BEST MOTION PICTURE OF THE YEAR
[/B]"Slumdog Millionaire"

[B]PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTOR IN A LEADING ROLE
[/B]Mickey Rourke in "The Wrestler" (Fox Searchlight)

[B]PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTOR IN A SUPPORTING ROLE
[/B]Heath Ledger in "The Dark Knight" (Warner Bros.)

[B]PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN A LEADING ROLE
[/B]Kate Winslet in "The Reader" (The Weinstein Company)

[B]PERFORMANCE BY AN ACTRESS IN A SUPPORTING ROLE
[/B]Taraji P. Henson in "The Curious Case of Benjamin Button"

[B]ADAPTED SCREENPLAY
[/B]"The Curious Case of Benjamin Button"

[B]ORIGINAL SCREENPLAY
[/B]"WALL-E" (Walt Disney)

[B]BEST ANIMATED FEATURE FILM OF THE YEAR
[/B]"WALL-E" (Walt Disney) 

[B]ACHIEVEMENT IN ART DIRECTION
[/B]"The Curious Case of Benjamin Button"

[B]ACHIEVEMENT IN CINEMATOGRAPHY
[/B]"Slumdog Millionaire" (Fox Searchlight)

[B]ACHIEVEMENT IN COSTUME DESIGN
[/B]"Australia" (20th Century Fox) 

[B]ACHIEVEMENT IN DIRECTING
[/B]
"Slumdog Millionaire" (Fox Searchlight) Danny Boyle

[B]BEST DOCUMENTARY FEATURE
[/B]"Trouble the Water" (Zeitgeist Films) 

[B]BEST DOCUMENTARY SHORT SUBJECT
[/B]"The Conscience of Nhem En" A Farallon Films Production

[B]ACHIEVEMENT IN FILM EDITING
[/B]"The Curious Case of Benjamin Button" (Paramount and Warner Bros.) 

[B]BEST FOREIGN LANGUAGE FILM OF THE YEAR
[/B]"Waltz with Bashir" (Sony Pictures Classics) A Bridgit Folman Film Gang Production; Israel

[B]ACHIEVEMENT IN MAKEUP
[/B]"The Curious Case of Benjamin Button"

[B]ACHIEVEMENT IN MUSIC WRITTEN FOR MOTION PICTURES (ORIGINAL SCORE)
[/B]
"Milk" (Focus Features) Danny Elfman

[B]ACHIEVEMENT IN MUSIC WRITTEN FOR MOTION PICTURES (ORIGINAL SONG)
[/B]"Down to Earth" from "WALL-E"

[B]BEST ANIMATED SHORT FILM
[/B]"Presto" (Walt Disney) 

[B]BEST LIVE ACTION SHORT FILM
[/B]"Manon on the Asphalt" 

[B]ACHIEVEMENT IN SOUND EDITING
[/B]"The Dark Knight" 

[B]ACHIEVEMENT IN SOUND MIXING
[/B]
"The Dark Knight" 

[B]ACHIEVEMENT IN VISUAL EFFECTS
[/B]"Iron Man"

I'm calling it!

 

[GaimeGuy]

I ADVISE EVERYONE TO READ THIS

http://www.variety.com/awardcentral_article/VR1117998897.html?nav=news&categoryid=1982&cs=1

Can we get a full report on what the nominees would be if a logicalsystem were used, instead?

 

[Alucard]

Doesn't make it a bad film. War of the Worlds is a phenomenal film. It's literally the fact that the son is alive at the end that undermines the believability of the film. The fact that everything up until that point felt so visceral and real makes Robbie's being alive seem all the more implausable when you see him run to the top of a mountain that EXPLODES.

Yeah, that part was pretty annoying as well, but the video camera still irked me the most. Visually, I adore the movie. I love the use of highly saturated colours and the trademark use of light by Spielberg. Minority Report had a similar feel.

Anyway, I should really see the movie again. I didn't outright hate it when I saw it in theatres, but I did feel disappointed because of the two issues brought up in this thread.

 

[Amir0x]

I'm calling it!

save it for the oscar pool!

 

[Darko]

Yeah, that part was pretty annoying as well, but the video camera still irked me the most. Visually, I adore the movie. I love the use of highly saturated colours and the trademark use of light by Spielberg. Minority Report had a similar feel.

Anyway, I should really see the movie again. I didn't outright hate it when I saw it in theatres, but I did feel disappointed because of the two issues brought up in this thread.

All the problems lie within the films scripts, Steven Speilberg did his job, all his recent work is definatley up to par. I do blame him for Indy becuase he obivously had some input there, and didnt bitch slap George lucas when he decided to use

Spoiler

Aliens in a fucking Indiana ones movie

.

 

[Love To Love You Baby]

ORIGINAL SCREENPLAY
"Frozen River" (Sony Pictures Classics); Written by Courtney Hunt

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Predictable oscars are predictable. I think these will be the eventual winners.

Nah, I think it's fairly clear that Milk is in the lead for an Original Screenplay win. It's the only Best Picture nominee nominated in the category, and was the only lock to get a nomination out of about ten potential films that could have all easily been nominated in this category (it was wide open). I'd say Wall-E is the RU, despite not having a, err, dialogue-heavy screenplay.

 

[pringles]

I just watched The Wrestler and I can't fucking believe it wasn't nominated for Best Picture.
Holy shit it was good. Mickey Rourke so deserves the Oscar.
Tomei was really good but maybe not Oscar-good, but Darren A should definitely have gotten a Best Director nom, and where's Springsteen?

I have yet to see all the other nominated movies, but I have a hard time imagining them all being better since everyone is saying this was a weak year for movies.

 

[Darko]

Tomei was really good but maybe not Oscar-good, but Darren A should definitely have gotten a Best Director nom, and where's Springsteen?
.

Because they felt it was necessary to nominate the same movie twice. :/

 

[Blader]

I just watched The Wrestler and I can't fucking believe it wasn't nominated for Best Picture.
Holy shit it was good. Mickey Rourke so deserves the Oscar.
Tomei was really good but maybe not Oscar-good, but Darren A should definitely have gotten a Best Director nom, and where's Springsteen?

I have yet to see all the other nominated movies, but I have a hard time imagining them all being better since everyone is saying this was a weak year for movies.

Springsteen not getting nominated is probably the biggest bullshit of all. They only picked 3 songs, can't they choose up to 5?

 

[pringles]

Because they felt it was necessary to nominate the same movie twice. :/

Yeah, that's crazy. Wasn't it the same story last year or the one before that? Some Disney movie had like two or even three songs nominated..
Pick ONE dammit. They should limit that shit.

 

[jett]

Springsteen not getting nominated is probably the biggest bullshit of all. They only picked 3 songs, can't they choose up to 5?

There has to be a certain number of candidates to get 5 nominations. This year probably not enough songs were submitted. Same reason only 3 animated movies get nominated.

 

[AlternativeUlster]

There has to be a certain number of candidates to get 5 nominations. This year probably not enough songs were submitted. Same reason only 3 animated movies get nominated.

There were like 50 songs elgible to be nominated. I think they might be trying to cut the run time of the telecast since every year they talk about cutting it back.

 

[The Storyteller]

You did't like it?

It showed promise early on, but the final third was manipulative and godawful.

 

[wenis]

Milk is a better movie than TDK and I LOVED TDK.

I'm not even debating whether or not TDK should have been nominated...I'm just more upset Milk and Sean Penn continue to get recognition for a film which I felt was meandering, underwhelming, and tepid in delivery. It's just the academy's golden cow to get the crowds to watch the awards show.

 

[-tetsuo-]

Im sorry if someone has already pointed this out but...

His movie is nominated for Best Cinematography, Best Art Direction, Best Editing and one of his actors is up for an award as well yet they didnt even nominate Christopher Nolan for best director? Im not mad or anything, that just kind of doesn't make sense. I guess he just sat in his trailer when all of this was going on?

 

[DevelopmentArrested]

There has to be a certain number of candidates to get 5 nominations. This year probably not enough songs were submitted. Same reason only 3 animated movies get nominated.

What you just spewed made absolutely no sense. Don't speak of what you don't know.

 

[TheHeretic]

Funny, I only really like Spielberg in the last 10 years. His early stuff is manipulative and shallow for the most part*. He really grew up in the 90s. I suppose he's still a master manipulator, but his films have more to them from Schindler's List onward.

* Not that he didn't make a few great popcorn flicks, but overall, very shallow.

Spielberg is a legend. He directs all genres and does it wonderfully. There aren't many directors who can do thrillers, comedies, action adventure films and historical dramas and win awards for all of them.

War of the Worlds and AI were kind of meh, but are we really going to hold that against him? Hes made some of the best movies of all time, and a lot of the most entertaining. Yeah he does popcorn flicks, big deal, thats not all he does.

 

[Lifeonmars?]

Eh, wont bother watching this year, again.

 

[Eric WK]

Im sorry if someone has already pointed this out but...

His movie is nominated for Best Cinematography, Best Art Direction, Best Editing and one of his actors is up for an award as well yet they didnt even nominate Christopher Nolan for best director? Im not mad or anything, that just kind of doesn't make sense. I guess he just sat in his trailer when all of this was going on?

They don't necessarily have anything to do with one another. You're making a pretty big jump with the idea that because many of the technical aspects of the film were executed very well (by people other than Nolan) that the direction was fantastic. Not that it wasn't, but they aren't the same thing.

 

[Ford Prefect]

The amount of nominations for The Reader is fucking ridiculous. I mean, christ, cinematography? The Love Guru had more interesting cinematography.

edit: In Bruges for writing is pretty glorious, though. I guess it's not all that out of left field, since he already won for his short a couple years back, but it's still nice to see on the list.

 

[Corwood Rep]

I'm way behind on this thread, but I seriously don't understand what the fuck happened with The Reader. It's blatant, pathetic Oscar-pandering, with basically no creative substance whatsoever. Kate Winslet's not even that great in it. Just doing her usual schtick. It's a 2 hour embodiment of her "here's how you whore for Oscars" speech in Extras.

I'm really stoked that Robert Downey Jr. got a nomination for Tropic Thunder. He honestly deserves it and it's nice to see the Academy even sort of acknowledge comedy. I know it's impossible, but I'd actually like to see him win, just to piss off the Dark Knight fanboys, and because I kind of enjoyed the performance more.

 

[-tetsuo-]

They don't necessarily have anything to do with one another. You're making a pretty big jump with the idea that because many of the technical aspects of the film were executed very well (by people other than Nolan) that the direction was fantastic. Not that it wasn't, but they aren't the same thing.

A director has his hands on almost everything with a movie, though. He damn sure better have his hands on everything that gets put into that final release. He was in that room with the editors for god knows how long. He has the final word on what he keeps from what his cinematographer cooks up for him. etc etc

Good acting, good editing and good cinematography are very important to a film. I know Dark Knight got nominated for other things but I picked those specific categories and Heath's nomination because those are things that a director will deal with directly.

 

[dmshaposv]

Hopefully Wally Pfister picks up the cinematography oscar - TDK was visually one of the best looking films of the year, especially the IMAX scenes.

He missed out twice (BB and Prestige), let's hope the nolan curse doesn't strike again. :lol However, I have a pretty strong feeling the frontrunner is Slumdog in this field.

BTW when does the oscar pool thread open? a week before the actual ceremony?

 

[Meliorism]

Take out Benjamin Button and put in The Wrestler. Take out The Reader and put in Revolutionary Road.

As it stands right now, I'm rooting for Milk. Would've laughed if The Dark Knight was nominated for BP.

Rooting for Rourke for the best actor category.

 

[fart]

it was a shit year for hollywood and _still_ you guys couldn't get your comic book schlock-fest into the serious part of the oscars. HAH!

summary: fuck batman (tim burton excepted) and comic book adaptations in general

ps, i'm very much split on the probability of waltz taking the foreign language award. on the one hand it's a landslide by any manner of taste. on the other hand it contains not so subtle criticisms of likud policies.

 

[DrForester]

Wall-E director Andrew Stanton on Oscar's Glass Ceiling.

http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/popv...ilm-and-writing-strong-female-characters.aspx

Mr. Oscar, Tear Down This Wall! Andrew Stanton on How Animated Films are Pigeonholed -- and How Wall-E is Every Man

You talked about 'breaking the glass ceiling' in your speech after winning Best Picture from the L.A. Film Critic's Association.

Well, when we were starting out on "Toy Story," we just felt like animation was in such a box. You gotta remember that back then, everybody felt that, in the industry and outside it, if it was animated, that meant it had to be a musical, that meant it had to be typically some sort of fairytale, had to have some happy village in it and some villain and there were just all these unnecessary conventions put on it. And I would see my favorite reviewers of movies suddenly dumb down and say, "Good for kids," and that would be the review. It just frustrated the heck out of me and everybody else. So we felt, well, we're just going to have build a better movie prove that that isn't the case.

So "Wall-E" was born.

What people say we've been doing with "Wall-E," we've been doing since the beginning. But I guess the grooves are so deep in people's thinking that it took a film that pretty much didn't follow any convention for people to just finally get it. In a weird way, I don't feel like our philosophy or our tack on our filmmaking is any different on this one than it has been on the others.

What does it take to smooth over those grooves, to break down the barrier? Winning awards?

Wearing people down with good films. And to even think that it's segregating other artists -- pick a branch, but I know everybody always associates it with actors -- you know, yeah, agreed, we're not going to hire as many actors, but we're always going to be hiring actors. You can't replicate great acting. So I just don't get the fear.

The animated category was initially supposed to empower animated films -- does it now serve to ghettoize them?

It's just a sign that times have changed. Because from the live action side, animation -- and computers in general -- are being used as a tool in so many movies now. The line is just getting so blurry that I think with each proceeding year, it's going to be tougher and tougher to say what's an animated movie and what's not an animated movie. And what I'd love is to get to the point where someone just goes, 'I don't care.' Because I've been at the 'I don't care' point a long time now.

Are you okay with not breaking the glass ceiling at the Oscars?

I've never seen so much buzz about anything we've done like this. All the reviews that have been amazing. And I'll be okay if it doesn't break another glass ceiling. I already get how people feel. That's really, really satisfying.

People say, if not this movie in the Best Picture category, then no movie.

It kills me to hear that. Because I've been such a reverent fan of movies since I was a little kid, and I think I'm lucky that I work in San Francisco so I feel like I still am almost more of a fan than an actual filmmaker, and I just have always wanted to believe, no matter how naïve it is, that the best films will make it to the attention of the Academy in their proper place. And I still want to believe that.

Eve has gotten some blog buzz as the one of the best-written female characters of the year. Since she goes around blowing things up, what feminizes her?

I'm probably going to offend you, but I was just trying to sort of emotionally and temperamentally capture what I've always seen a male-female relationship to be. At least out of my experience -- and I'm a nerd. I've always been shocked and waiting-for-the-other-shoe-to-drop that a girl would ever talk to me, let alone want to marry me. They always seem to hold the power to me, and from my mother to my wife to my daughter, every time I try to really figure them out, and think I've got them pegged, I pay for it. There's a mercurial nature, but more of a mysterious nature to women that I think is what makes them so attractive. And I think that that's what I love: Guys never seem to know when they've come too close and crossed the line, and then the temper comes.

AKA, then Eve guns something down.

Exactly. That's really what the gun was all about, was Wall-E having no clue where the boundaries were with a woman. Because men don't either. Men just stumble into it and find out through experience. And they either survive it, or they don't. And that's really all it was, was a metaphor for that. The fact that she was high-technology and she had a subcutaneous technology that you couldn't really see, I felt, one, made her just technologically more beautiful and stuff, because wanted her to be pretty in a way that another robot would possibly see another machine being pretty, not pretty in the way that humans see somebody. But [her façade] also just kept her a mystery. There's something about her -- the fact that she floats. That fact that he touches the ground and he's all dirty, and she can stay clean. Some of these are kind of conventional thinking for the gender, but they just worked -- they worked on a primal level.

Usually we see familial or buddy love with Pixar -- this is the first really romantic relationship we've seen.

It's the most direct for romance, and it's also the only movie we've done where that was the story -- where it was a love story. Because all the stuff with the environment, all the stuff with the state of humanity -- that was all secondary and or sometimes even tertiary to what I just wanted to indulge in. I just wanted to see two machines fall in love, but I had to have a reason. I had to have a point to it all. I wanted to wallow in that innocent wonder and joy that you could get out of a love story in a '50s musical, but I felt there's no way the world would accept that in today's society. Unless you disguise it in a dystopian, sci-fi love story with two machines. Then, suddenly everybody's willing to take down their shields and just indulge. And maybe realize how much they miss being fulfilled that way -- with unadulterated joy.

Do you ever feel like those meta-narratives about Wall-E's message are in any way imposed?

I try very hard to have them not be. The biggest reason I ever put a plant in -- this is before I knew where the film was going, because it kind of came to me forward instead of as the whole idea -- was that I remember feeling [that] this was the loneliest character I'd ever thought of, working for 700 years for no reason. And I thought, wow, what tenacity that is. And then it made me think of those flowers that just push through the pavement, that they're not going to give up -- even though all this manmade stuff [has] just mowed over it. And I thought, 'That's him!' So the whole idea that there was a green initiative was really never on my mind -- it was more just logic. It was just a logical consequence of people forgetting to love one another -- that everything else would slowly erode and fall apart and die because of it. It wasn't going to be some instant calamity -- as a matter of fact, I never even thought of global warming during the whole making of it.

What about Wall-E: The Sequel -- do you go there?

I don't think you do. I mean, frankly, I'm not speaking as a representative of Disney or Pixar, I'm speaking as just myself as a filmmaker: I don't go into anything that often thinking about a sequel. It's a real different mindset. And I'm not anti-sequel, but I just feel like there are very few ideas that are meant to be continued. You have to divorce yourself from the success and the box office and the desire of the audience to see it again.

You do feel that sense of finality in the Van Gogh-storybook ending.

I also have this artistic pride. I don't want my grandson to go, "Grandpa, did you make 'Nemo 1' or '2'?" That would just kill me.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Spielberg is a legend. He directs all genres and does it wonderfully. There aren't many directors who can do thrillers, comedies, action adventure films and historical dramas and win awards for all of them.

War of the Worlds and AI were kind of meh, but are we really going to hold that against him? Hes made some of the best movies of all time, and a lot of the most entertaining. Yeah he does popcorn flicks, big deal, thats not all he does.

I think you didn't even read my post. I like Spielberg, I just think his early work is really shallow and overrated. AI was meh, but it was an ambitious trainwreck and I give him a lot of credit for it. Didn't see WOTW. I like most of his output since Schindler.

 

[beelzebozo]

i really should have kept my mouth shut with that spielberg-ron howard comment. for the record, it was half serious. i'm just not passionate about spielberg's work, and am less so about howard's.

 

[Love To Love You Baby]

Spielberg is a legend. He directs all genres and does it wonderfully. There aren't many directors who can do thrillers, comedies, action adventure films and historical dramas and win awards for all of them.

War of the Worlds and AI were kind of meh, but are we really going to hold that against him? Hes made some of the best movies of all time, and a lot of the most entertaining. Yeah he does popcorn flicks, big deal, thats not all he does.

Spielberg is capable of tackling multiple genres, I'll give him that. And he's made a few films I've really liked.

But he hasn't made some of the best movies of all time, as far as I'm concerned. I wouldn't put any of his films in a list of 100 or 200 of my favorite movies.

 

[andymcc]

man I just saw slumdog last night, what a mess. I don't know why the critics are eating it up so much. it was heavy-handed fairytale fate and destiny garbage. if the movie was set in the us they'd disown it.