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otogi makes me wish xbox had more japanese support..

thorns

Banned
The game is absouletly gorgeous, it's almost a work of art. Same with Panzer Dragoon Orta.

It is sad that Xbox got dissed by Japanese devs in favor of the quite dated PS2 technology.

How much prettier would be Winning Eleven if it used pixel shaders? I wish Xbox could have been more of a success in Japan so that we could see more than money hat games.
 

Hotsuma

Member
thorns said:
It is sad that Xbox got dissed by Japanese devs in favor of the quite dated PS2 technology.

It is also sad that Xbox owners dissed both of the games that you mentioned when it came to sales.
 

chespace

It's not actually trolling if you don't admit it
otogi 2 is even more beautiful, believe it or not. and even more particle effects. :eek:

NFSU2 on the other hand... hmm, not sure yet what to make of this game. been playing it all weekend for review and i'm strangely addicted but goddamn it is artless.
 

DarienA

The black man everyone at Activision can agree on
chespace said:
otogi 2 is even more beautiful, believe it or not. and even more particle effects. :eek:

NFSU2 on the other hand... hmm, not sure yet what to make of this game. been playing it all weekend for review and i'm strangely addicted but goddamn it is artless.

Why the hell didn't anybody tell me NFSU2 has a hood view!??!?!?
 

Lazy8s

The ghost of Dreamcast past
The diversity of creature designs in Orta's world shows the potential for creative multitexture and per-pixel lighting effects that the Xbox's blending capabilities make possible. Greater developer support could lead to so many original effects for graphics and, more importantly, increasing gameworld interactivty for gameplay with the hard drive (like in Morrowind).

panzerdragoonorta_10072002_15.jpg


panzerdragoonorta_10072002_02.jpg


iwadex-image350.jpg


iwadex-image338.jpg


iwadex-image153.jpg


iwadex-image133.jpg


iwadex-image118.jpg


panzerdragoonorta_10072002_07.jpg


Panzer_Dragoon_screen4.jpg
 

Tellaerin

Member
Yet point out the fact that Western console devs have failed to turn out anything as artistic and aesthetically pleasing as the games mentioned in this thread around here, and you'll be met with cries of, 'DIE, DIRTEE JPN-O-FILE!' and 'Westerners do everything better than the Japanese nowadays! Japanese development is dead! SALES FIGURES DON'T LIE!'

Go figure. :p
 
chespace said:
NFSU2 on the other hand... hmm, not sure yet what to make of this game. been playing it all weekend for review and i'm strangely addicted but goddamn it is artless.

haha....thats how i felt about the first...
 
Otogi looked nice at least. Orta looked great and was actually fun to play, though.
Too bad there is no real competition in Japan. I'd love to see more software on either xbox or for that matter the little cube with the purse handle that comes in the color purple.
 
I haven't played otogi but PDO doesn't look much better than recent PS2 games.

Monster Hunter looks better than Ninja Gaiden (I own both).


Plus that new Wanda game looks pretty incredible too. Xbox may be more powerful but I think devs are pushing the PS2 further atm.
 

Musashi Wins!

FLAWLESS VICTOLY!
seismologist said:
I haven't played otogi but PDO doesn't look much better than recent PS2 games.

Monster Hunter looks better than Ninja Gaiden (I own both).


Plus that new Wanda game looks pretty incredible too. Xbox may be more powerful but I think devs are pushing the PS2 further atm.

hahahahah
 

explodet

Member
Pfft - who buys racing games for the art?
It's about realism of graphics for games like Need for Speed, Forza, and GT4.

I think the last racing game where people had an issue about the art style was Double Dash.
 

nitewulf

Member
seismologist said:
I haven't played otogi but PDO doesn't look much better than recent PS2 games.

Monster Hunter looks better than Ninja Gaiden (I own both).


Plus that new Wanda game looks pretty incredible too. Xbox may be more powerful but I think devs are pushing the PS2 further atm.

no may be about it. xbox is more powerful. and technically many xbox games do a lot of things better, but due to crappy artstyle they dont look as good. wanda is one of those examples, its the art and choice of texturing and filtering that makes it look so good rather than incredible technology.
i havent played or checked videos of monster hunter so i dont know how it looks though.
i think PDO still looks better than most ps2 and xbox games, but again an artistic prefference. its not a very poly intensive game.
 
Also you can see from those PDO shots that it's either great looking environments or incredible looking monsters but never both at the same time. ;)
 

RiZ III

Member
Azels has a very short appearance in Orta. Also, you can unlock her outfit in Pandoras Box.

If ur never going to play it, heres the spoiler:

Orta is Azels daughter. I guess she was created using Azels dna or something. I'm not sure exactly how Orta was given birth to/created but she is Azels daughter.
 

chespace

It's not actually trolling if you don't admit it
explodet said:
Pfft - who buys racing games for the art?
It's about realism of graphics for games like Need for Speed, Forza, and GT4.

I think the last racing game where people had an issue about the art style was Double Dash.

NFSU looks realistic? :)

yeah.
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
One thing that drove me nuts about Orta's visuals were how rough a lot of the terrain seemed...

iwadex-image153.jpg


This shot demonstrates the problem. The canyon walls just look awful to me. Considering how incredible most other aspects look, it was quite a disappointment. Any level that involved loads of terrain fell flat from a visual standpoint. The snowy wasteland really suffered from it...
 

Patrick Klepek

furiously molesting tim burton
DarienA said:
I didn't realize you were a heavy drinker...

pff! juiced is awesome, maaaaaaaaaan. it's got the special acclaim touch. it's so awesome, the review i wrote didn't even RUN. that's how awesome it is. fear that shit.
 
dark10x said:
One thing that drove me nuts about Orta's visuals were how rough a lot of the terrain seemed...

This shot demonstrates the problem. The canyon walls just look awful to me. Considering how incredible most other aspects look, it was quite a disappointment. Any level that involved loads of terrain fell flat from a visual standpoint. The snowy wasteland really suffered from it...

I don't see it, personally. I mean, come the fuck on...it's a rail-shooter. If you had full range of movement and the ability to stop and smell the flowers, I could sort of understand. As it is, you're pushed through the game's environs very quickly...and focusing on the enemies. I think it's just nitpicking to make your comment. The game looks amazing, especially given how many different areas there are and how much ground you cover. For a rail-shooter, PDO is without peer, visually, IMO.
 

thorns

Banned
Yeah, otogi's gameplay isn't really anything special. I just wish we would have more japanese devs trying their hand with xbox and pixel shaders and what not. I don't think there's anything that could've been done on the PS2 but not on the Xbox.
Most of the games on Xbox are technically impressive, but there haven't been that many games that match the stunning look of Otogi and PDO, if it got more jap support, we would have more of those games I think.
 

chespace

It's not actually trolling if you don't admit it
well, darkx10 is the biggest graphics whore on GAF, so you gotta cut him some slack.
 

Kon Tiki

Banned
I get a chuckle when Xbots say they do not need Japan. The games with the best graphics on xbox come from Japan.
 

Lazy8s

The ghost of Dreamcast past
The graphical clarity of games like Sonic Adventure 2 and Enclave make their detail seem almost tangible through the screen, but that doesn't fit the context of every game as great as it can be. Panzer Dragoon Orta is a work of surrealism and employs a kind of atmospheric filter over the image to a varying degree depending on the level. It hangs so heavy in the air in the levels with really ominous feels, like the night-time escape of the first stage and when Abadd is trying to resuscitate his ancient masters, that any movement seems to swirl and smear against the background, leaving behind a ghosting pixel retention. In some other levels, though, where Orta isn't in her "natural" surreal settings, the image quality can be rather sharp and every detail on the ground is very distinct -- like in the "Rez" stage.

Every creature is modeled to almost CG-level detail (and can be inspected in the encyclopedia mode), and areas like the forest canopy where Orta fights the two worm sub-bosses or the assault on the Cradle where she guts the Imperial and dragonmare production facility are fully fleshed out in environmental detail. The game has no problem staging battles with detailed enemies in its detailed levels, so it's quite adept at throwing around geometry.

panzer_1216_05.jpg

pdo_screenshot_45.jpg


dark10x:
This shot demonstrates the problem. The canyon walls just look awful to me.
The textures in this game, like those of the canyon walls, are created a little different than the average action or platformer game. They have to blend and create the right effect from a camera perspective which flies high above and through it at a decent speed. It looks quite appropriate in-game, and still screenshots don't represent it too well (especially the shot being criticized). Here's a shot that frames the flying view a little more closely:

panzer_5.jpg


Considering Xbox image quality allows detail drawn out into the distance to actually look convincing and not like a degenerate shimmering mess, levels like this one and the one inside Sestren where Orta is inside what looks like a giant, pulsating membrane can manage to look solid.
Any level that involved loads of terrain fell flat from a visual standpoint. The snowy wasteland really suffered from it...
On the contrary, Eternal Glacies was quite picturesque. At each time of day, it achieved its goal of becoming a setting fit for a landscape painiting:

panzerdragoonorta_10072002_05.jpg


panzerdragoonorta_10072002_03.jpg


panzerdragoonorta_10072002_13.jpg


panzerdragoonorta_10072002_01.jpg


panzerdragoonorta_10072002_11.jpg


All of the various terrain created moody settings:

panzer_101402_81.jpg

panzer_101402_73.jpg

panzer_101402_75.jpg

panzer_101402_74.jpg

panzer_9.jpg

panzerdragoonorta_10072002_08.jpg

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panzer_101402_83.jpg

panzer_101402_69.jpg

panzer_101402_64.jpg
 

Socreges

Banned
PDO is such a gorgeous, fun game. One of a few games that make me regret not owning an Xbox.

Though I ultimately will if WE8I Xbox is coming to the US and supports Live.

thorns said:
How much prettier would be Winning Eleven if it used pixel shaders?
I don't know what that means, but I DO wish that Winning Eleven was developed from the ground up for the Xbox. Not that the PS2 game doesn't look perfectly fine, but it could stand to look better.
 

Lazy8s

The ghost of Dreamcast past
Yeah, the graphics in Visual Concepts SEGA sports games got a nice boost this year when the team chose Xbox instead of PS2 as the lead platform in their multiplatform development.
 

chespace

It's not actually trolling if you don't admit it
re: lazy8's defense of PDO... i don't understand what you're saying, but jesus, you're making me want to play the game again.

actually, i got the gist of your post, and appreciate your study of PDO very much. :)

wish some of you could be playing phantom dust with me right now. gorgeous in its own right.
 

thorns

Banned
is phantom dust going to get a us/euro release?
microsoft should release it anyway, even if it's not going to sell much.
 

thorns

Banned
Otogi must have the one of the most impressive particle effects on any game. The shining golden halls level (stage 3 I think) with all the glittering gold (can't find a screenshot right now..) amazed me when I first saw it. I wish more developers experimented with particle effects etc. instead of doing just bump mapped water.
 

Blimblim

The Inside Track
chespace said:
re: lazy8's defense of PDO... i don't understand what you're saying, but jesus, you're making me want to play the game again.

actually, i got the gist of your post, and appreciate your study of PDO very much. :)

wish some of you could be playing phantom dust with me right now. gorgeous in its own right.
Maybe we could setup a game on of these days ? I've got the game and the asian xbox to play on xbox live :)
 

nitewulf

Member
thing about PDO is, and hate to get into this sort of an arguement here, but i thought "eternal glacies" was UTTERLY amazing visually. everything from the start of the level on foot to the real boss fight as the dragon takes flight is set up brilliantly. the serene, vast landscape evokes a very lonely/stranded feeling, at least in me. i cant agree with dark10x on this one.
the argument about the lack of detail in environments is wrong as well. "gigantic fleet" has tons of ships on screen at a time, from small attack drones to gigantic destroyers. the "imprerial city" level boasts similar detail as well.
while playing a game like PDO if you notice the bland texture on repeated rock type 3, and flat leaves on repeated tree type 34...then may be you're kinda missing the point.
 

DarienA

The black man everyone at Activision can agree on
eXxy said:
pff! juiced is awesome, maaaaaaaaaan. it's got the special acclaim touch. it's so awesome, the review i wrote didn't even RUN. that's how awesome it is. fear that shit.

LOL that's hilarious man...
 
seismologist said:
I haven't played otogi but PDO doesn't look much better than recent PS2 games.

Monster Hunter looks better than Ninja Gaiden (I own both).


Plus that new Wanda game looks pretty incredible too. Xbox may be more powerful but I think devs are pushing the PS2 further atm.

That is the biggest bunch of bull,I have heard on this forum in a long time. You sound like a PS2 fanboy.
PS I know this is not a X box game. But I just got Viewtiful Joe for the PS2 this week and it his a lot of style. it is a great game.
 

DCharlie

And even i am moderately surprised
"Monster Hunter looks better than Ninja Gaiden (I own both)."

And so do i, and i'm in love with MH and i HATE ninja gaiden, and i really can't accept this as anyones opinion, because it's simply wrong.

:)

"I haven't played otogi but PDO doesn't look much better than recent PS2 games."

*splutter* holy fuck coffee just came out of my nose, and i wasn't even drinking coffee...
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
The textures in this game, like those of the canyon walls, are created a little different than the average action or platformer game. They have to blend and create the right effect from a camera perspective which flies high above and through it at a decent speed. It looks quite appropriate in-game, and still screenshots don't represent it too well (especially the shot being criticized). Here's a shot that frames the flying view a little more closely:

I don't wish to argue. I own and love the game, but my complaint still stands. It does not look appropriate in-game, as that is how I first experienced it...

The atmpshere they managed to create was excellent and the artistic vision is all there, but when playing the game, many of the environments just seem as if they could use more detail.

I just don't like the way things like this look...

panzerx_screen006.jpg


panzer_screen011.jpg


Also things like this...

panzerx_screen007.jpg


I really do not like the way they designed the sky in that scene. Whether it was intentional or not, it looks distorted to me.

Thinking back, my MAIN complaints all revolve around the second level, but some of those complaints are present in a couple of the other stages. Most of the stages look perfect, though...
 

jarrod

Banned
Outside From Software, Team Ninja and (now defunct) parts of Sega, no JP develeopers have really pushed Xbox. I'd really like to see what KCEJpn West, Capcom Studio 4 or Square Enix Division 4 could do from the ground up on it. Seeing AM2's amazing Chihro stuff makes me hope Xenon gets more support also....
 
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