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otogi makes me wish xbox had more japanese support..
- Thread starter thorns
- Start date
seismologist
Banned
DCharlie said:"Monster Hunter looks better than Ninja Gaiden (I own both)."
And so do i, and i'm in love with MH and i HATE ninja gaiden, and i really can't accept this as anyones opinion, because it's simply wrong.
"I haven't played otogi but PDO doesn't look much better than recent PS2 games."
*splutter* holy fuck coffee just came out of my nose, and i wasn't even drinking coffee...
If you look at high res dev kit shots of PS2 games they'd look this good too. Just look at some of the recent GT4 shots. I guess we have a different idea of better graphics but after playing Doom 3 on the highest settings Xbox and PS2 looks pretty minimal. At the end of this gen it'll be like looking at PS vs. N64 graphics/ I think the difference in art is more apparent then graphics.
DCharlie said:
Well...
From consoles: Metroid Prime, Outrun 2, Ninja Gaiden, ZOE2, MGS2 & 3, ICO, REZ, Silent Hill 3, Biohazard 4, Burnout 3, Wreckless XB and a few others.
Why do you ask?
No, I don't think so. For the same reason that SNES games don't look too bad today, I think the current consoles will age fairly well. Dreamcast is from 1998, for example, and games like Soul Calibur and DOA2 still look very nice (even if they've been technically outclassed).
Panzer Dragoon Orta didn't impress me much, honestly. Yes, it looks really good and has a nice framerate, but it had some rough spots too. The game just never clicked with me graphically. Or maybe I was let down because of the hype here at GAF OMG BEST GRAPHICS EVER and so on.
TheGreenGiant
Banned
the japanese console makers will always get better support no matter what - its pretty much fact - even if MS takes a commanding lead next gen; Xenon will probably sell like shit in Japan..
scenario:
MS releases Xenon in Japan FIRST ( of all three + Worldwide)
japanese consumer - look on... plays GBASP/PS2/GC and waits for a next gen machine from Sony/Nintendo.
The above is 100% what is going to happen in Nihon land. We'll continue to see a majority of Japanese developers working mostly with SONY/Nintendo.
so wishes aside; save your money for PS3/N5 if you want next gen japanese developed titles.
scenario:
MS releases Xenon in Japan FIRST ( of all three + Worldwide)
japanese consumer - look on... plays GBASP/PS2/GC and waits for a next gen machine from Sony/Nintendo.
The above is 100% what is going to happen in Nihon land. We'll continue to see a majority of Japanese developers working mostly with SONY/Nintendo.
so wishes aside; save your money for PS3/N5 if you want next gen japanese developed titles.
seismologist
Banned
It's crazy if that timeline is true, Microsoft will have released 2 more powerful consoles than PS2 and we still wont see next gen graphics from Japanese developers until possibly a year later.
One display issue people might be having in making PDO's detail stand out relates to its color scheme. Unlike the SEGA trademark of bright, candy reds and greens of other franchises like Sonic Adventure or Virtua Fighter, Panzer's world has always used a more subdued color palette of pastels. The detail can come across as dull or faded if the contrast setting on someone's TV is too low.
dark10x:
Along this tangent: Have you seen Ghost Squad? An industrial style like Virtua Cop 3 and Metal Gear Solid 2/3, but with even more complex graphics that get taken into amazing jungle scenarios as well.
bloke:
dark10x:
Neither did the designers, which is why Orta doesn't play on foot in that level and never has the game looking anything like that. Like the asphalt and grass areas right alongside the track in a racing game, the textures are viewed from a removed, speeding perspective and have to blend correctly in motion. The camera is never zoomed in stationary to individual textures like in that first pic. Second pic is more characteristic of the game's look, and it proves that the canyon is modeled with a high number of facets and ridges.
This shot is, again, another one the player can't see since the sky looks just fine ahead and to the side through the waterfall. Even swung backwards, the view doesn't pull out so wide like that.
Some of those games easily have roughness comparable to any in Panzer Dragoon Orta without accomplishing a lot of what it's doing, though Panzer wouldn't have much of an excuse as a rail shooter had it actually been lacking.
Along this tangent: Have you seen Ghost Squad? An industrial style like Virtua Cop 3 and Metal Gear Solid 2/3, but with even more complex graphics that get taken into amazing jungle scenarios as well.
bloke:
Unfortunately, that's the kind of game SEGA would've never ported since it uses a custom cabinet like Top Skater or Soul Surfer. Maybe they'll come up with something someday.
The problem is that those flaws are CLEARLY visible to me while playing the game. As I said, I had not actually seen a screenshot of that area until after playing the game (media blockout on purpose).
Regarding the color scheme, that is one area that I was truly impressed with (more so than even with the Saturn titles). I did notice that a lot of alpha effects have pretty serious dithering, though (like JSRF). The filter used during cutscenes, the darkened clouds during the first boss fight, and other similar effects all appear very grainy (especially in dark scenes). Not a huge deal, though.
I'm not trying to say the game looks bad (it absolutely does not), it is just incredibly uneven. That's what prevents it really impressing me...
Many of them do have flaws, but those flaws are very different and do not bother me in the same way.
I can list the flaws of each game that bothered me (I enjoy doing these)...
Metroid Prime - This was almost flawless in terms of visual presentation. It faltered in one area, however, and that is water and other similar effects. The pools of water were very simple and simply were unattractive in comparison to the rest of the game.
Outrun 2 - I have only played this at the arcade, and quite frankly, I see absolutely no visual flaws in the game.
Ninja Gaiden - I can't really find fault with NG either (outside of VERY minor issues, such as the occasional bit of tearing).
ZOE2 - Suffers from some pretty heavy slowdown in several scenarios. The massive 1000 enemy fight, for example, ran very slowly most of the time...
MGS2 - The textures look good in game, but are rather low resolution and the game has a few issues with tearing.
MGS 3 - Based on the demo, it only runs at 30 fps and has slowdown issues.
ICO - Runs in low resolution, at 30 fps, and uses plenty of low resolution textures. Also, it cannot be forced to run in progressive scan.
REZ - Nothing particularly wrong here.
Silent Hill 3 - Per-vertex flashlight beam on PS2 and only 30 fps. The PC version solves both of these problems, though.
Biohazard 4 - Can't really judge yet, but it looks great.
Burnout 3 - Lots of little flaws throughout, but nothing major.
Wreckless XB - Uneven framerate
Panzer Orta has a flawless framerate, incredible creature/structure modeling, and a brilliant art design...but the flaws I've mentioned always stood out like a sore thumb. Even though Orta sports a higher level of detail than many of those games I listed, I believe the resources could have been put to better use.
Regarding the color scheme, that is one area that I was truly impressed with (more so than even with the Saturn titles). I did notice that a lot of alpha effects have pretty serious dithering, though (like JSRF). The filter used during cutscenes, the darkened clouds during the first boss fight, and other similar effects all appear very grainy (especially in dark scenes). Not a huge deal, though.
I'm not trying to say the game looks bad (it absolutely does not), it is just incredibly uneven. That's what prevents it really impressing me...
Many of them do have flaws, but those flaws are very different and do not bother me in the same way.
I can list the flaws of each game that bothered me (I enjoy doing these)...
Metroid Prime - This was almost flawless in terms of visual presentation. It faltered in one area, however, and that is water and other similar effects. The pools of water were very simple and simply were unattractive in comparison to the rest of the game.
Outrun 2 - I have only played this at the arcade, and quite frankly, I see absolutely no visual flaws in the game.
Ninja Gaiden - I can't really find fault with NG either (outside of VERY minor issues, such as the occasional bit of tearing).
ZOE2 - Suffers from some pretty heavy slowdown in several scenarios. The massive 1000 enemy fight, for example, ran very slowly most of the time...
MGS2 - The textures look good in game, but are rather low resolution and the game has a few issues with tearing.
MGS 3 - Based on the demo, it only runs at 30 fps and has slowdown issues.
ICO - Runs in low resolution, at 30 fps, and uses plenty of low resolution textures. Also, it cannot be forced to run in progressive scan.
REZ - Nothing particularly wrong here.
Silent Hill 3 - Per-vertex flashlight beam on PS2 and only 30 fps. The PC version solves both of these problems, though.
Biohazard 4 - Can't really judge yet, but it looks great.
Burnout 3 - Lots of little flaws throughout, but nothing major.
Wreckless XB - Uneven framerate
Panzer Orta has a flawless framerate, incredible creature/structure modeling, and a brilliant art design...but the flaws I've mentioned always stood out like a sore thumb. Even though Orta sports a higher level of detail than many of those games I listed, I believe the resources could have been put to better use.
Apharmd Battler
Member
seismologist said:
Cocaine is one hell of a drug <j/k>
You are being sarcastic...right?
DaCocoBrova
Finally bought a new PSP, but then pushed the demon onto someone else. Jesus.
Well, if you had your sh!t modded, the XBOX would be home to more Square/Enix, Capcom, Konami, Nintendo goodness than any console...ever!
seismologist
Banned
Apharmd Battler said:Cocaine is one hell of a drug <j/k>
You are being sarcastic...right?
no Im not on crack.
That was my honest opinion. After all, I'm playing these games practically back to back. While Xbox has higher polygon count and better textures (depending on the game). I think the PS2 might actually be better at doing subtle lighting.
i.e. ICO, Monster Hunter, Killzone It helps these games look more atmospheric.
BlackClouds
Member
I like the fact that PDO and Ninja Gaiden have pics released that are widescreen. Something I wish would happen also. PDO is topnotch graphically because it maintains a fast frame rate, at the same time having plenty of polys to spare, with nice textures, and gorgeous artwork.
Uh oh, another lazy8 vs dark10x confrontation! Can't say I agree with dark10, he doesn't have enough respect for a fast frame rate it would seem (much like most reviewers, there's no penalty for having a game be 30fps like it probably should).
Uh oh, another lazy8 vs dark10x confrontation! Can't say I agree with dark10, he doesn't have enough respect for a fast frame rate it would seem (much like most reviewers, there's no penalty for having a game be 30fps like it probably should).
Did you just say what I think you said? I'm like the biggest 60 fps whore on the entire board! In fact, the difference between 60 fps and 30 fps is like Summer and Winter for me. What on earth makes you think that anyways?
Considering how much of a hardcore DC supporter Lazy is, I'd say he is the one that lacks respect for the magic number...
I am still capable of appreciating the visuals of a game even when they run at 30 fps, however...
Apharmd Battler
Member
seismologist said:no Im not on crack.
While Xbox has higher polygon count and better textures (depending on the game). I think the PS2 might actually be better at doing subtle lighting.
i.e. ICO, Monster Hunter, Killzone It helps these games look more atmospheric.
Point taken, I wasn't trying to be a smarty pants. I whole heartedly disagree, but I can see your point of view. But it's all a matter of taste, you have your likes I have mine. But PDO is one gorgeous game, and nothing holds a candle to it IMHO. But hey, each his/her own...........
seismologist
Banned
Maybe I need to play PDO again to refresh my memory but as of now Im more impressed by other Xbox games like Steel Batallion and Riddick.
I haven't played Otogi yet. That's on my list too.
I haven't played Otogi yet. That's on my list too.
There's less forgiveness for lower standards of IQ and framerate after the technological advancement of the last decade. On paper, systems like Saturn and PlayStation weren't so far off of Model 2 for geometry and texturing capabilities, but they were of a completely subordinate class of graphics when the difference in image quality that could be sustained at 60 hz was actually viewed in person. Coming off of the forward-thinking design of Dreamcast which doesn't lose color depth, have to sacrifice Z-accuracy, or set up a separate mode for proscan like newer consoles, my expectations for hardware are unforgiving for subpar IQ, and my expectations for framerate design are high such that 60 fps should be standard and 30 fps must be justified with spectacular detail (like Resident Evil 4).
disabledHeliocentric
Member
I think Orta's visuals own just about everything. Games like Prime and ZOE2 are great, don't get me wrong, but from my experience they do not look as impressive. Compare the rock textures from Prime or the canyon walls of ZOE2 to Orta and I think Orta comes out better.
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