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[DaBargainHunta]

Inspired by my post in this thread:

I personally think that too many games go overboard with cinematics just because they want to show off the technology. Cutscenes are fine and necessary for some games, but I abhor them for the most part. In most games, they seem to be there just for the sake of being there, and they usually end up weighing the game down considerably. Metal Gear Solid 2 is the perfect example of what I'm talking about - an inane, choppy story breaking up the action every two seconds. In MGS2's case, the cutscenes actually CRIPPLE the game. No thanks.

 

[Wario64]

I hate having to watch long cutscenes too, but for the MGS series, I'm actually LOOKING FORWARD to the cutscenes. I don't know why but the story in the MGS series gets me interested, sometimes more than the actual gameplay.

In general though, I hate cutscenes and if a game doesn't let you skip cutscenes, then screw it. I'm playing through Shinobi and I'm skipping every cutscene and still having fun

 

[AeroGod]

Inspired by my post in this thread:

I personally think that too many games go overboard with cinematics just because they want to show off the technology. Cutscenes are fine and necessary for some games, but I abhor them for the most part. In most games, they seem to be there just for the sake of being there, and they usually end up weighing the game down considerably. Metal Gear Solid 2 is the perfect example of what I'm talking about - an inane, choppy story breaking up the action every two seconds. In MGS2's case, the cutscenes actually CRIPPLE the game. No thanks.

Go rent Xenosaga. Makes the cutscenes in MGS2 look like the cutscenes in Pong.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I only dislike cutscenes in games when they have bad direction and animation. Which is really around 95% of games. When they're well directed and look good, they can happen alot and I don't really care.

 

[u_neek]

I LOVE nice looking and well animated cutscenes with a cinematic feel and long as they ain't too long.. Splinter Cell-like cutscenes suck!

 

[DaBargainHunta]

Go rent Xenosaga. Makes the cutscenes in MGS2 look like the cutscenes in Pong.

LOL, so I've heard. That's why I've avoided that game, even now that it's available for cheap.

I only dislike cutscenes in games when they have bad direction and animation. Which is really around 95% of games. When they're well directed and look good, they can happen alot and I don't really care.

That's the problem: 95% of the time, they're NOT well-directed - they're just boring and pointless. You hit the nail right on the head.

 

[IJoel]

I didn't have many problems with MGS2's cutscenes. My problem was just the ridiculous story.

As for Xenosaga, I LOVED the cutscenes. Talk about kickass story and presentation.

 

[Doom_Bringer]

yes Xenosaga is the worst RPG ever! Even the story sucks along with everything else...

 

[Wario64]

I didn't like the cutscenes in Xenosaga either. There are a couple scenes that are cool to watch but not enough to warrant a play through imo

 

[SolidSnakex]

That's the problem: 95% of the time, they're NOT well-directed - they're just boring and pointless. You hit the nail right on the head.

That's why MGS2 should really be excluded, whether you liked the plot or not the cutscenes in the game are godly. Top notch production values, insanely smooth animation and they were all alot of fun to watch. They'd go on long sometimes, like the end of the tanker, but considering how cool that was I didn't mind.

A game with a few cutscenes can annoy me just based on direction. Jak 2's animation and production values were fine, but the actual direction of the cutscenes was garbage so amateurish.

 

[Prospero]

Ace Combat 4 had some of the best cutscenes I've seen recently. Beautiful hand-drawn stills, and a great story. I liked those just as much as I liked the flashiest Final-Fantasy-style cutscenes you can name.

 

[Doom_Bringer]

Ace Combat 4 had some of the best cutscenes I've seen recently. Beautiful hand-drawn stills, and a great story. I liked those just as much as I liked the flashiest Final-Fantasy-style cutscenes you can name.

Ace Combat IV is godly! Best game on PS2! Can't wait for AC 5

 

[SolidSnakex]

"I liked those just as much as I liked the flashiest Final-Fantasy-style cutscenes you can name."

Speaking of those FF FMV's, Square needs to keep those till they learn how to make their ingame cutscenes interesting. The difference in quality (not talking about graphics) between the ingame cutscenes and FMV's is just massive.

 

[DaBargainHunta]

That's why MGS2 should really be excluded, whether you liked the plot or not the cutscenes in the game are godly. Top notch production values, insanely smooth animation and they were all alot of fun to watch. They'd go on long sometimes, like the end of the tanker, but considering how cool that was I didn't mind.

A game with a few cutscenes can annoy me just based on direction. Jak 2's animation and production values were fine, but the actual direction of the cutscenes was garbage so amateurish.

They may have LOOKED nice, but the story was gibberish. The story, the plot, is a major part of any good cinematic experience. Good graphics and cool presentation don't make up for bad storytelling, ever. Here's an example outside of video games: We've all seen bad movies with awesome special effects. Why are they bad? Because the story sucks.

 

[u_neek]

"I liked those just as much as I liked the flashiest Final-Fantasy-style cutscenes you can name."

Speaking of those FF FMV's, Square needs to keep those till they learn how to make their ingame cutscenes interesting. The difference in quality (not talking about graphics) between the ingame cutscenes and FMV's is just massive.

YOu haven't seen FFXII's cutscenes have you??

 

[SolidSnakex]

" We've all seen bad movies with awesome special effects. Why are they bad? Because the story sucks."

Yah but there are action movies with bad plots, but the action is so good that you overlook it's shortcomings with its plot. I don't think you'd really need to follow MGS2's plot to enjoy how well the cutscenes are done.

"YOu haven't seen FFXII's cutscenes have you??"

I have and my point stands. Watch MGS3's new trailer and then go watch the real time FFXII cutscenes.

 

[DaBargainHunta]

Yah but there are action movies with bad plots, but the action is so good that you overlook it's shortcomings with its plot. I don't think you'd really need to follow MGS2's plot to enjoy how well the cutscenes are done.

Maybe some people do, but to me, bad plot = bad movie. My favorite action movies all have a decent storyline - i.e. Total Recall, Demolition Man, Die Hard, etc.. In the case of Die Hard, the storyline may be basic, but it's coherent and watchable.

 

[cybercrash]

Personally I thought MGS2's plot was pure brilliance but most just didn't get it.

Anyway, about the general 'overuse of cutscenes' topic being discussed here... I think it's because most games that have an immense amount of cutscenes are games that simply aim to be a work of art in more areas than gameplay and in-game graphics etc... And those types of games simple aren't meant for 'just gimme great gameplay' gamers.

 

[nubbe]

Metroid Zero had way to many

 

[6.8]

Metroid Zero had way to many

2 minutes in a 5 hour game (1st playthrough) is way too much, I agree!

 

[DaBargainHunta]

Personally I thought MGS2's plot was pure brilliance but most just didn't get it.

If you say so. I personally think that a person has to be on drugs to "get it."

Anyway, about the general 'overuse of cutscenes' topic being discussed here... I think it's because most games that have an immense amount of cutscenes are games that simply aim to be a work of art in more areas than gameplay and in-game graphics etc... And those types of games simple aren't meant for 'just gimme great gameplay' gamers.

I understand that argument, but I don't agree. ICO was a work of art without relying on cutscenes (there may have been one or two tiny ones in there, I can't remember, but they were hardly the focus of the game).

 

[Journeywalker]

When I played through MGS:TT for the first time, I really felt that the codec dialogs could have used a good editor. Some important plot elements are revealed in codec conversations, and yet they're spotted throughout a five-minute conversation with really unclean dialogue in between. The cut scenes, however, were entertainingly over-the-top.

I'm really not a fan of inconsistency in the pacing of cutscenes/story. Super Mario Sunshine put several storytelling sequences in the first hour of gameplay, and then there was basically no story progression until the final boss. It didn't help that the FMV was low-quality.

 

[radios shipping overview]

I agree with above statements: if you're going to fill a game with story and/or cutscenes, make it worth my attention. Don't spend your development budget on ugly models and a horrid script and boring cinematics. I don't care what kind of game they're going for; if companies can't be bothered to make sure their (seemingly mandatory) story elements are worth anybody's time, then they shouldn't bother putting them in. They should be focusing their efforts on polishing other areas of the game - knowing their strengths and all that.

Speaking of those FF FMV's, Square needs to keep those till they learn how to make their ingame cutscenes interesting.

See: Vagrant Story. Better realtime cinematics than MGS. Another good example is Threads of Fate. I agree, though, that Square does need to improve their realtime cinematics in general.

 

[madara]

Good topic. Number thing that stopped alot of my casual friends from gaming was "psx era" of long FMV, especially in beginning. Number one on list developers need to do is get gamers into the game with 5 mins, shock them with needed play and then do some storytelling to begin game in intervals.

 

[madara]

Good topic. Number #1 thing that stopped alot of my casual friends from gaming was "psx era" of long FMV, especially in beginning. Number one on list developers need to do is get gamers into the game with 5 mins, shock them with needed play and then do some storytelling to begin game in intervals.

Oh and just avoid general but uglyiness like Castlevania 3D style, yic, that was bad.

 

[Gahiggidy]

Adcance Was 2 is a big offender.


I guess not technically cut scenes, but those little conversations they have at the start and end of the games got really annoying. I just hit "b, b, b, b, ..." to skip through them.

 

[cvxfreak]

I don't mind cut-scenes TOO much, but in games like MGS2, it's easy to lose track of what you were doing.

 

[Docpan]

Without reading anything but the topic title:

MGS2.

 

[EekTheKat]

IMHO Devs can and should put as much FMV and or cutscenes as they want. So long as there's a button to fast foward/skip it as a option.

 

[Tabris]

Yeah, just give the ability to fast-foward or skip. (I would also love the ability to rewind)

That way people complaining about cutscenes can stfu.

 

[dark10x]

They may have LOOKED nice, but the story was gibberish. The story, the plot, is a major part of any good cinematic experience. Good graphics and cool presentation don't make up for bad storytelling, ever. Here's an example outside of video games: We've all seen bad movies with awesome special effects. Why are they bad? Because the story sucks.

The story didn't suck, though. It was actually a rather unique attempt at a post-modern tale and was somewhat successful IMO. The game very memorable as a result of the story. It wasn't that difficult to understand, but there were some subtle ideas running below the surface. It obviously isn't for everyone, though...but I thought it was very enjoyable.

MOST games do not hit you with tons of cutscenes. I know this because I enjoy watching good cutscenes and always remember them. Most of the games I played are pretty light on cinemas...and the ones that aren't light are very enjoyable. Why would you want them to reduce something that is already minor? Some people enjoy games like that, why take that away from them?

 

[Kiriku]

Yah but there are action movies with bad plots, but the action is so good that you overlook it's shortcomings with its plot. I don't think you'd really need to follow MGS2's plot to enjoy how well the cutscenes are done.

Well, a significant number of the cutscenes in MGS2 involve lots of talking (and I'm not even counting the codec dialogues either), and when they did fight in those cool action scenes...well...I wasn't completely sure of WHY they fought, WHO they were fighting against and who I wanted to win at all times.

 

[TheGreenGiant]

That way people complaining about cutscenes can stfu.

IAWTP

 

[SolidSnakex]

See: Vagrant Story. Better realtime cinematics than MGS. Another good example is Threads of Fate. I agree, though, that Square does need to improve their realtime cinematics in general.

Better than MGS1 or MGS2? If MGS1 then I guess in some ways. But Square hasn't done anything of that level this generation. Konami raised the bar with real time cutscenes with MGS, and then raised it again with MGS2 and TS.

 

[Bebpo]

Personally I don't mind and actually enjoy tons of cutscenes in story-driven games. So basically all rpg's and adventure games fit in here, and then games like MGS and ZoE.

Yet I hate cutscenes in games that shouldn't have them. For example Ratchet & Clank has long cutscenes which bore me while I just wanna get some more platforming action in. I mean imagine if the original SMB had a 10 min cutscene between every level >.< Same thing goes with fighting games. KoF3d has stupid cutscenes before every battle in story mode and even if you skip them that's a bunch of extra loading before the fight. I just want to beat up the next opponent damnit, having to skip through a min of cutscenes before I can just sucks. That's not saying all cutscenes should be abolished, but I just want them short if the game isn't story-based. Ninja Gaiden has <30 sec FMVs which are great and don't interrupt the flow of the game since they are usually at the end of a long level. Jak II had pretty short in-game cutscenes which were a lot more player friendly than Ratchet. Just don't force me to go get a soda and it'll be ok.

 

[Littleberu]

Personally I don't mind and actually enjoy tons of cutscenes in story-driven games. So basically all rpg's and adventure games fit in here, and then games like MGS and ZoE.

Yet I hate cutscenes in games that shouldn't have them. For example Ratchet & Clank has long cutscenes which bore me while I just wanna get some more platforming action in. I mean imagine if the original SMB had a 10 min cutscene between every level >.< Same thing goes with fighting games. KoF3d has stupid cutscenes before every battle in story mode and even if you skip them that's a bunch of extra loading before the fight. I just want to beat up the next opponent damnit, having to skip through a min of cutscenes before I can just sucks. That's not saying all cutscenes should be abolished, but I just want them short if the game isn't story-based. Ninja Gaiden has <30 sec FMVs which are great and don't interrupt the flow of the game since they are usually at the end of a long level. Jak II had pretty short in-game cutscenes which were a lot more player friendly than Ratchet. Just don't force me to go get a soda and it'll be ok.

Triangle is your friend. You can skip all cut-scenes in R&C.

 

[Korranator]

lmao @ the damage control for MGS2.

Reality check the cut scenes ruined the game.

 

[Pimpbaa]

Cutscenes should be short and to the point. One could say if you find them too long, then skip them, but then you wouldn't know what the hell is going on story wise.

 

[Pimpbaa]

lmao @ the damage control for MGS2.

Reality check the cut scenes ruined the game.

IAWTP. I started skipping cutscenes in the latter half of the game, I just wanted to get it over with. The cutscenes negated any enjoyment I was getting from the gameplay.

 

[MoxManiac]

I'm sick of cutscenes being put on games that shouldn't have them - Contra SS for example - it's fucking contra, you run from left to right blasting things, stop wasting our time with inane attempts of shoehorning a story in.

Shooters too; I remember Gigawing 2 had pointless dialogue between stages - STFU AND LET ME PLAY

 

[Bebpo]

Triangle is your friend. You can skip all cut-scenes in R&C.

But then you have no clue wtf is going on.

I don't need a 10 min movie, I just need 1 screen of text to know why I am going where I am going and what I'm supposed to be doing there.

 

[Late Stage Marxist]

I think Kojima's done a good thing for the game industry by setting the standards for dialogue, general script-writing, and "cinematography". But at the same time he's managed to alienate a large sector of the market who would just prefer a pick-up-and-play approach to gaming. I think eventually these will balance out, but we're not quite there yet. Grand Theft Auto is probably the best executed example of a series that seeks to bring balance into the world of cinema-style games.

 

[dark10x]

lmao @ the damage control for MGS2.

Reality check the cut scenes ruined the game.

Reality check, they MADE the game for me.

 

[Prine]

Eh? I really enjoyed the cutscenes in MGS2. I think it blends well with a game like MGS, the music and dramatic action just reminds me how close videogames are becoming to films. Its nice to experience, and its not like MGS2 was lacking in the gameplay department either.

 

[Gattsu25]

*cough*

its not like MGS2 was lacking in the gameplay department either.

True.

 

[DaBargainHunta]

and its not like MGS2 was lacking in the gameplay department either.

The gameplay was excellent, no doubt. Unfortunately, the amount of cutscenes, the length of the cutscenes, and the absurdity of the story completely CRIPPLE the experience. The game becomes a chore to play through because we're forced to wade through miles of annoying gibberish.

I think Kojima's done a good thing for the game industry by setting the standards for dialogue, general script-writing, and "cinematography"

If he has "set the standard," as you say, then the standard is still pretty damn low. MGS2 doesn't come close to rivaling even a halfway decent movie in terms of plot and character quality.

 

[dark10x]

The gameplay was excellent, no doubt. Unfortunately, the amount of cutscenes, the length of the cutscenes, and the absurdity of the story completely CRIPPLE the experience. The game becomes a chore to play through because we're forced to wade through miles of annoying gibberish.

You keep saying this, but it is OBVIOUS that NOT EVERYONE feels the same way. I completely, utterly disagree with you. In fact, I couldn't disagree more. The plot has some issues, but it certainly aimed a lot higher than many movies today. Your average action flick is becoming so standard and predictable that MGS2's story was like a breath of fresh air.

Why are you complaining at all? Most games are certainly not like that, which is what made it so special. If YOU can't handle it, then don't bother with it. Why would you wish away something that other people enjoy when there are plenty of other things that fit YOUR tastes?

 

[SolidSnakex]

Why are you complaining at all? Most games are certainly not like that, which is what made it so special. If YOU can't handle it, then don't bother with it.

Not even that, most games now allow you to skip cinemas if you don't like them. So if you don't like them, just skip them. It's just the games that for some strange reason don't allow you to skip them that should be called out.

 

[DaBargainHunta]

You keep saying this, but it is OBVIOUS that NOT EVERYONE feels the same way. I completely, utterly disagree with you. In fact, I couldn't disagree more. The plot has some issues, but it certainly aimed a lot higher than many movies today. Your average action flick is becoming so standard and predictable that MGS2's story was like a breath of fresh air.

Why are you complaining at all? Most games are certainly not like that, which is what made it so special. If YOU can't handle it, then don't bother with it. Why would you wish away something that other people enjoy when there are plenty of other things that fit YOUR tastes?

I never said that I "wish it away," so don't put words in my mouth. You're right, I don't HAVE to play MGS2 - and I don't. However, that doesn't mean that I'm not perfectly free to express my views about what I feel is becoming a more widespread problem in gaming. I disagree with you that most games aren't like that. Granted, most games don't go to the excesses that MGS2 does, but more and more games are becoming cutscene-heavy, and the cutscenes are usually annoying and pointless. If you disagree, fine.

 

[dark10x]

I never said that I "wish it away," so don't put words in my mouth. You're right, I don't HAVE to play MGS2 - and I don't. However, that doesn't mean that I'm not perfectly free to express my views about what I feel is becoming a more widespread problem in gaming. I disagree with you that most games aren't like that. Granted, most games don't go to the excesses that MGS2 does, but more and more games are becoming cutscene-heavy, and the cutscenes are usually annoying and pointless. If you disagree, fine.

If I disagree, fine?! This is a discussion forum, what's the point of just ending your post like that?

I really do disagree that this is becoming common and have to question the games you are playing. I own over 100 games for the PS2 alone, and looking over them, only 26 of them contain a solid dose of cutscenes...but several of those are RPGs where those scenes are expected. You will find smaller ratios on the other two systems. Really, just what ARE you playing?

When you say MOST, that would imply that a good 3/4 of the games on the market are like this (or even a bit over 50%). That just isn't true!