Support NeoGAF

[Gavin Stevens]

Whether or not the actual original intentions of 4chan were to piss people off or not, you have to surely see that now it’s become common place. Both my wife and I have seen FIRST HAND people in the UK even have racist taunts and bullying due to this very symbol. That all in those kids head as well? Am I supposed to say to black kid X “oh it’s ok, it’s just 4chan making this a thing, you have no right to be upset because when that kid was calling you a n***er and doing that hand sign, he was actually asking if you were ok!”.

We are well beyond the fact that it was a troll attempt now. It’s a world wide thing that’s actually accepted and seen as a racist gesture. If you do the hand signal in response to asking if you’re ok, then its fine. If you do it out of the blue, the benefit of the doubt kind of goes out the window.

But whatever. Like I said, enjoy the soup. The US is fucked at the moment with as close to a facist dictator as you can get, and is a laugh a day here. But then, we CAN laugh, because the Uk isn’t exactly doing much better.

Maybe sometimes when there’s smoke, there actually is fire. And as I said, the benefit of the doubt long went out of the window a while back with this shit. The world is run by racists, and it happens every day. You don’t see it, that’s fine. You don’t want to believe it, also fine. But when my wife and I see it all the time, and see it posted along side pictures of black kids online with the damn symbol... you kind of start to think a little bit less about whether or not it’s a troll and more so a hate crime.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

the fact that this person used that hand-sign does not make it taboo for everybody else to use it.

At what point would that change if extremists continue to adopt the sign for their racist cause?
I mean, we know that they specifically chose it because of its ambiguity. So plausible deniability can be retained but you still reach those you want to reach.

 

[strange headache]

We are well beyond the fact that it was a troll attempt now. It’s a world wide thing that’s actually accepted and seen as a racist gesture.

It is becoming a racist gesture because your attempts at making it taboo is exactly what is giving that hand-sign its power. Instead of your hollow virtue-signaling, just don't play this silly game and keep using it as intended, thus denying the trolls their attempts at subverting the meaning behind it. Censoring this initially benign hand-sign is only going to make things worse. It's really not hard to grasp, just don't play their silly game.

At what point would that change if extremists continue to adopt the sign for their racist cause?
I mean, we know that they specifically chose it because of its ambiguity. So plausible deniability can be retained but you still reach those you want to reach.

As long as you keep playing into their hands, you're never gonna win this battle. As I said, the only winning strategy is not to play this silly game. You can keep banning Pepe, milk, this hand-sign or any other symbol, these people will always come up with something new. Your overly virtuous hysteria is only enabling this.

 

[Xenon]

This is why I can talk about anything on neogaf... except politics and this left versus right shit. If you honestly can’t tell the difference when people do this versus others, then I feel bad for you. Maybe it’s an age thing, or where I was born, or what. I don’t know. But when something is said to me, I know instantly if it was a serious comment, or if it was a joke. I think the world needs to go back and remember people are allowed to laugh and joke with each other, but at the same time, it’s clearly obvious when you’re being a cunt for the sake of being a cunt. Sometimes... you just have to call a spade a spade, for example, Trump. If it walks like a duck...

Guess what, kids are assholes and they come in all shapes, sizes, and colors. Do you think banning an established gesture is going to stop this. So why do it? If anything it just shows that a bunch of kids got under your skin and ultimately encourages more of it. This is playground level mind-games, yet here we are.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

As long as you keep playing into their hands, you're never gonna win this battle. As I said, the only winning strategy is not to play this silly game. You can keep banning Pepe, milk, this hand-sign or any other symbol, these people will always come up with something new. Your overly virtuous hysteria is only enabling this.

So what would be your approach to counteract the right wing radicalization thats happening online?
In the US and many other western countries, right wing terrorism is already a MUCH bigger problem than islamic terrorism and the radicalization is almost exclusively happening online.

The NYT just had good piece on the problem:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/03/world/white-extremist-terrorism-christchurch.html

I also have to commend them for categorizing the Munich Mall Shooting as right-wing terrorism, considering the perpetrator was the son of an Iranian immigrant and had a typical "muslim sounding name" and a lot of the media very quickly jumped to conclusions because of that.
It was undoubtedly right wing terrorism, though. The guy was a fan of Hitler and the Norway shooter.

 

[Three]

By acknowledging the meaning that these trolls want you to see behind that hand-sign. And you're falling for it, hook, line and sinker. This is exactly how these minority of trolls want you to react, giving them power over your means of expression.



First the Nazis, now this. You really like your silly appeals to hyperbole in order to formulate an emotionally laden pseudo-argument. First of all, are you seriously suggesting that the people using that hand-sign are fine with the deeds of the New Zealand shooter? Second of all, the fact that this person used that hand-sign does not make it taboo for everybody else to use it. The New Zealand shooter probably also drank milk, consumed toast and liked certain music, does that imply that all other people who like these things are guilty by association?

Now you're just being silly.

No, the meaning comes from context. Which I have been arguing all along. Just as the Hindus using the symbol are not fine with the deeds of Nazi's but if I were to see it with the intended racist purpose I can draw my own conclusions. The fact that the symbol meant something else in the past is meaningless when I see it used with that context which was the point of bringing up the swastika, but I enjoy your hyperbole where you think I'm comparing somebody who has used the symbol somewhere to hitler killing 6 million jews. Seriously, you don't see what my point is? The part where you talk about milk is nonsensical. I don't see what your point is nor do I care at this point.

 

[spandexmonkey]

Whether or not the actual original intentions of 4chan were to piss people off or not, you have to surely see that now it’s become common place. Both my wife and I have seen FIRST HAND people in the UK even have racist taunts and bullying due to this very symbol. That all in those kids head as well? Am I supposed to say to black kid X “oh it’s ok, it’s just 4chan making this a thing, you have no right to be upset because when that kid was calling you a n***er and doing that hand sign, he was actually asking if you were ok!”.

Why does every hard core liberal seem to assume minorities are so emotionally fragile that we'll crumble at bad words and hand gestures? Are only white people capable of believing in sticks and stones?

 

[Gavin Stevens]

Fun fact: I haven’t once said to ban anything

In fact, the one thing I HAVE said, is to view everything in context. For the probably 19th time now, I’ll say it again... when asked if you’re ok, it’s fine to throw the symbol. When you’re too scared to show your face on tv, and instead throw it up in the air for a camera, or when you do it knowing full well your on tv for a trial of the murder of a load of school kids, or when you are on a damn picture for interns for Trump... then you suddenly lose the high ground and people ask questions.

I do it a lot, and will continue to do it a lot. But I still think it’s blatantly obvious when it’s done for the wrong reasons. I’m simply saying people need to judge the moment and make their own call.

 

[Barnabot]

It is becoming a racist gesture because your attempts at making it taboo is exactly what is giving that hand-sign its power. Instead of your hollow virtue-signaling, just don't play this silly game and keep using it as intended, thus denying the trolls their attempts at subverting the meaning behind it. Censoring this initially benign hand-sign is only going to make things worse. It's really not hard to grasp, just don't play their silly game.



As long as you keep playing into their hands, you're never gonna win this battle. As I said, the only winning strategy is not to play this silly game. You can keep banning Pepe, milk, this hand-sign or any other symbol, these people will always come up with something new. Your overly virtuous hysteria is only enabling this.

I think you have nailed it but some people think they just can't quit the game while they are playing it.

 

[Sqorin Hammerfarf]

So what would be your approach to counteract the right wing radicalization thats happening online?

The perspective that there's not NEARLY as much right wing radicalization happening online as you think and that the vast majority of this radicalization is a direct result of the overly authoritarian ways of the left? This begs the question... if the left chilled out for a bit, wouldn't this do more to counteract right wing radicalization than banning an OK symbol, which would probably just increase it?

 

[Sqorin Hammerfarf]

In fact, the one thing I HAVE said, is to view everything in context. For the probably 19th time now, I’ll say it again... when asked if you’re ok, it’s fine to throw the symbol. When you’re too scared to show your face on tv, and instead throw it up in the air for a camera, or when you do it knowing full well your on tv for a trial of the murder of a load of school kids, or when you are on a damn picture for interns for Trump... then you suddenly lose the high ground and people ask questions.

Dude, that is so awesome! I mean, holy crap! What I wouldn't give to have your ability to read minds and know the intent of complete strangers! Then I'd know if the guy holding the door for me did it out of kindness, obligation, pity, or if he just got momentarily lost in thought and forgot he was holding a door.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

Why does every hard core liberal seem to assume minorities are so emotionally fragile that we'll crumble at bad words and hand gestures? Are only white people capable of believing in sticks and stones?

Because that minority was hit over the head and assaulted on the way home, needing stitches. Assaulted on a bus, had his head smashed into the window of the bus while he was just sat there. Went to court and the white kid that did it got let off even though there was video of it. He was let off because he was an otherwise “good kid”. He wasn’t, he was just smart about how and when he did things. The poor lad ended up off school for weeks not due to the injuries, but due to being scared for his life. He then left the school and the area because the white LODs family used to brick his windows, all because... he was black. Sticks and stones are all well and good, but when you actually attempt to harm people.......

I’ve seen it over and over, and being in education for years I’ve seen al the cards. No colour is exempt from people being assholes to them. That’s the one thing that unites us as a race, you can be any colour and still be a total cunt. The only thing is, in this day and age whites are still the ones that get it the least. But I’ve had many a white kid in tears to me because a bunch of other kids hurt them repeatedly.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

The perspective that there's not NEARLY as much right wing radicalization happening online as you think and that the vast majority of this radicalization is a direct result of the overly authoritarian ways of the left? This begs the question... if the left chilled out for a bit, wouldn't this do more to counteract right wing radicalization than banning an OK symbol, which would probably just increase it?

Considering how many right wing terrorist attacks we've seen in recent years, and how many victims there have been. I'd argue that right wing terrorism is now just as big a problem, if not a bigger problem than islamic terrorism in the West.

Right wing terrorism also isn't a result of anything the left is doing. It's a result of racism and nationalist ideology.

 

[Barnabot]

Why does every hard core liberal seem to assume minorities are so emotionally fragile that we'll crumble at bad words and hand gestures? Are only white people capable of believing in sticks and stones?

Because extremists on each side they know they can prey on and get some profit from 'minorities' by telling them how they should live, be happy or get offended by.

 

[Croatoan]

Step 1: Stop worrying about what white supremacists do

Step 2: ?

Step 3: Profit


Seriously, there are so few white supremacists out there that they can easily be ignored. Live your life and stop being trolled by 4 chan.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

Dude, that is so awesome! I mean, holy crap! What I wouldn't give to have your ability to read minds and know the intent of complete strangers! Then I'd know if the guy holding the door for me did it out of kindness, obligation, pity, or if he just got momentarily lost in thought and forgot he was holding a door.

Im currently waving my hand up and down, doing the ok symbol, and thinking of you.

It’s up to you to figure out if I’m just saying I’m ok enthusiastically, or something else. I mean, you’re not a mind reader, how would you know...?

 

[Cunth]

Im currently waving my hand up and down, doing the ok symbol

Trigger warning, pls bro. Spoiler that shit

 

[Sqorin Hammerfarf]

Right wing terrorism also isn't a result of anything the left is doing. It's a result of racism and nationalist ideology.

So, it's about identity politics?

 

[Sqorin Hammerfarf]

Im currently waving my hand up and down, doing the ok symbol, and thinking of you.

It’s up to you to figure out if I’m just saying I’m ok enthusiastically, or something else. I mean, you’re not a mind reader, how would you know...?

I don't know. I can only assume you want to give me a handjob. And thanks, but no thanks. We going full palm or we ain't going at all.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

 

[The_Mike]

Another "joke that went too far" scenario.

 

[Shifty]

That is not "ok" it's the Jnana Mudra one of the most common hand positions used for meditation.

Yes, but context doesn't matter when people are looking for the initials "W. P." wherever they possibly can.

 

[LaughingStock]

Ok guys, I just found this gem. I can't stop laughing.

Is this satire? I can't tell...

 

[Barnabot]

It's serious business, LaughingStock . Everything in that video. /s

 

[DonF]

Un fucking believable

this trigger culture ...im literally shaking. not really. I'm actually just shacking my head.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

So, it's about identity politics?

Well, yeah. The reasoning the terrorists have is that their group (white, christian, western people) is threatened by the influx of another group(brown/black, muslim people).
This entire white genocide nonsense is about putting their own identity into the role of the victim in order to justify a violent response.

Freud explained this mechanism in his "Group Psychology and the Analysis of the Ego" in 1921 and a little more than 10 years later his book became the blueprint for how Hitler radicalized 50 million Germans and brought them to commit unspeakable atrocities.
He did it by creating a group that revolves around a concept of identity(nation and race) and then he created scapegoats who presented threats to the integrity and generally to the interests of the group. And because the strict concept of identity always dealt with "the other" in a big way it was easy to dehumanize "the other" to the point where violence against them can be justified.

 

[spandexmonkey]

Because that minority was hit over the head and assaulted on the way home, needing stitches. Assaulted on a bus, had his head smashed into the window of the bus while he was just sat there. Went to court and the white kid that did it got let off even though there was video of it. He was let off because he was an otherwise “good kid”. He wasn’t, he was just smart about how and when he did things. The poor lad ended up off school for weeks not due to the injuries, but due to being scared for his life. He then left the school and the area because the white LODs family used to brick his windows, all because... he was black. Sticks and stones are all well and good, but when you actually attempt to harm people.......

I’ve seen it over and over, and being in education for years I’ve seen al the cards. No colour is exempt from people being assholes to them. That’s the one thing that unites us as a race, you can be any colour and still be a total cunt. The only thing is, in this day and age whites are still the ones that get it the least. But I’ve had many a white kid in tears to me because a bunch of other kids hurt them repeatedly.

And his name? Albert Einstein.

Your edge cases just distract from reality. Like a typical self hating liberal desperately trying to let everyone know how guilty you feel. Meanwhile, the real issues minorities face get ignored. Check out the local news in places like Detroit, Memphis or even San Antonio. It's not roaming hordes of white folks putting us in body bags.
White supremacy is a big deal because whites feel guilty about it. It's always about them. Actual issues minorities deal with? Can't be bothered, feeling to angry over hand gestures and cartoons.

 

[Sqorin Hammerfarf]

...about putting their own identity into the role of the victim in order to justify a violent response.

...creating a group that revolves around a concept of identity(nation and race) and then he created scapegoats who presented threats to the integrity and generally to the interests of the group. And because the strict concept of identity always dealt with "the other" in a big way it was easy to dehumanize "the other" to the point where violence against them can be justified.

Gosh, this sounds, like, SUPER familiar from somewhere...

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

Gosh, this sounds, like, SUPER familiar from somewhere...

The dynamic of this always depends on the power structure in the society you are observing.
So even though it might sound similar to you, it might not be at all.

 

[Sqorin Hammerfarf]

The dynamic of this always depends on the power structure in the society you are observing.
So even though it might sound similar to you, it might not be at all.

OR, counterpoint, it may actually be super familiar and you are too far up your own ideological butt to realize the irony? It's hard to have perspective from inside one's own mind-colon.

 

[Javthusiast]

How long till some 4chan trolls or sick people commiting crimes make the thumbs up gesture according to triggered twitter people into a symbol for nazis?

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

OR, counterpoint, it may actually be super familiar and you are too far up your own ideological butt to realize the irony? It's hard to have perspective from inside one's own mind-colon.

Could be, but if that were the case I would expect someone to make a comprehensive argument(in an academic setting) about how and why this works. I've never seen that anywhere.

I mean, even though you didn't specifically say it, but you think that "the left" is displaying the same focus on the group and the subsequent increased capability for violent responses towards people who are not part of the group.
Which I wouldn't even disagree with, heck, the same is true for any fan of any soccer club. It really doesn't have to be a group built around nation and race.
But, to derive a dangerous political and ideological direction from that is hard.
I don't see how the lefts quest for tolerance and representation could end in hatred and violence on a national or international level.

What I believe is that many white people are so used to their privileged position, that they took it for granted and now feel attacked as the privilege is supposed to be taken away in favor of equality.
They take it for granted that their representative look like them, believe the same things and behave roughly the same. They take it for granted to be treated by everyone around them as the default. They take it for granted to see themselves reflected in the media they consume. They take it for granted to see their views implemented.

Introducing equality into a system ripe with privilege and oppression is likely to feel like oppression to those who formerly enjoyed privilege.

 

[Iorv3th]

Could be, but if that were the case I would expect someone to make a comprehensive argument(in an academic setting) about how and why this works. I've never seen that anywhere.

I mean, even though you didn't specifically say it, but you think that "the left" is displaying the same focus on the group and the subsequent increased capability for violent responses towards people who are not part of the group.
Which I wouldn't even disagree with, heck, the same is true for any fan of any soccer club. It really doesn't have to be a group built around nation and race.
But, to derive a dangerous political and ideological direction from that is hard.
I don't see how the lefts quest for tolerance and representation could end in hatred and violence on a national or international level.

What I believe is that many white people are so used to their privileged position, that they took it for granted and now feel attacked as the privilege is supposed to be taken away in favor of equality.
They take it for granted that their representative look like them, believe the same things and behave roughly the same. They take it for granted to be treated by everyone around them as the default. They take it for granted to see themselves reflected in the media they consume. They take it for granted to see their views implemented.

Introducing equality into a system ripe with privilege and oppression is likely to feel like oppression to those who formerly enjoyed privilege.

I got a Bingo here guys.

 

[RedVIper]

By posting a picture showing the difference between the manji and swastika? I don't think you get context very well.

Turns out my adblock blocked the image ^^

 

[Kamina]

Whats next?
Cant drink a beer anymore because hate geoups do that too?
What about wearing white clothes? Am I referring to the kkk for wearing a white T-Shirt?

Idiots

 

[Pejo]

 

[Lux R7]

this is ridiculous.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I just can't keep up with everything that offends the world.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Modern day puritanism. What sort of fragile nutcase would be so deluded? A fan in the audience flashes the 'okay' sign (which even in its modern context has several possible meanings) and suddenly people are tripping over themselves to not "normalize" or "provide a platform for" a hand gesture.

All this does is validate GamerGate and their fears that the gaming industry was being corrupted by ideologues. Here it is, in full view.

 

[Whitesnake]

Remember when obama was doing a Islamic Shahada gang sign?

Or when he did a Terrorist Fist Jab?

And now he’s doing symbol for white power:

You guys... I think Obama might be the leader of the alt-right neo-muslims who created GamerGate (which was, of course, a movement to oppress women and bring about a conservative patriarchal society under sharia law).

He can’t keep getting away with this. Thank god the OWL is standing up against his tyranny.

Spoiler

People who call the okay sign () a white nationalist symbol have IQs below room temperature, and their stupidity should not be dignified with a response. Blizzard and especially the OWL has been cucked for a while now, so while them banning benign hand gestures is disappointing, it’s not surprising.

 

[SidViscous]

I'm sure all twelve people who watch competitive overwatch feel much safer in their hug boxes now.

Pepe getting banned I can understand, but a hand gesture that's existed for decades?

 

[Dontero]

Someone should send 4chan thank you letter for keeping rest of the world sane by showing idiocy of people.

 

[strange headache]

So what would be your approach to counteract the right wing radicalization thats happening online?

If you think that banning innocuous hand-signs is going to combat any kind of radicalization, you're sorely mistaken. Nobody is radicalizing his belief-system through a mere hand-sign. Then of course, there's also the people who are not radicals, but simply enjoy getting a rise out of people, such as yourself. You don't combat ideological radicalization through censorship, you combat it by attacking its ideas and arguments with formulating better arguments.

No, the meaning comes from context. Which I have been arguing all along.

In that video you see a hand rising up in the background making the sign. Was he trolling, being edgy, perpetuating white supremacy or simply saying "it's all good", who knows? You are the ones inferring that this simply must be a white supremacist because, well, you "just know" apparently. For anybody else who isn't trapped inside your little ideological delusions, it's just a benign hand-sign.

By asking their audience to not use that hand-sign, Blizzard made it pretty clear that from this point forward, it doesn't hold that benign meaning anymore but is now to be considered a racist symbol:

Blizzard told a fan in the Overwatch League arena they are not allowed to use for its 'association as a white power symbol' after they flashed it on stream and a complaint was made to the OWL account on twitter

If you would have read the statement more carefully, Blizzard did this not because they were certain that the hand-sign in this context was used in a racist manner, but simply because a few idiots associate themselves with it in such a manner.

And all this, only because some internet rando who was watching that video was triggered by this. Let's assume for a moment that the person in question was indeed a racist, congratulations, you now have played right into his hands by outright banning a hand-gesture that other people use in innocuous ways. Blizzard actually allowed the subversion of this hand-sign by acknowledging its alternate meaning. By resorting to this censorious approach, they've only enabled this, instead of simply refusing to let a couple of idiots dictate to others what they can express.

The fact that the symbol meant something else in the past is meaningless when I see it used with that context...

No it's not meaningless how that symbol was used in the past. Also you're merely assuming that it was used in such a manner, but you have absolutely no way of knowing for sure.

...which was the point of bringing up the swastika, but I enjoy your hyperbole where you think I'm comparing somebody who has used the symbol somewhere to hitler killing 6 million jews. Seriously, you don't see what my point is?

As you said so yourself, YOU were the one bringing up the swastika, basically trying to godwin your way through this discussion. I've merely explained to you that invoking Nazism by establishing an exaggerated link between the swastika and this hand-sign is strenuous at best for obvious reasons. You don't have a point, you just want to evoke Nazis in order to make a baseless appeal to emotion because you have no leg to stand on.

The part where you talk about milk is nonsensical. I don't see what your point is nor do I care at this point.

There used to be a time when milk was considered a white supremacist dogwhistle. If you care so much about this hand-sign being a hidden Nazi symbol, you should also be deeply concerned about this. But you're quite obviously not concerned because you're either unaware of this connotation or simply don't care if a couple of idiots try to subvert its meaning.

Hence why you're merely proving my point that by simply ignoring these kinds of associations, you deprive that subversive symbolism of its nefarious influence over our means of expression. So thanks for merely providing further evidence that your bone-headed approach is enabling this racist symbolism in the first place.

 

[Three]

If you think that banning innocuous hand-signs is going to combat any kind of radicalization, you're sorely mistaken. Nobody is radicalizing his belief-system through a mere hand-sign. Then of course, there's also the people who are not radicals, but simply enjoy getting a rise out of people, such as yourself.



In that video you see a hand rising up in the background making the sign. Was he trolling, being edgy, perpetuating white supremacy or simply saying "it's all good", who knows? You are the ones inferring that this simply must be a white supremacist because, well, you "just know" apparently. For anybody else who isn't trapped inside your little ideological delusions, it's just a benign hand-sign.

By asking their audience to not use that hand-sign, Blizzard made it pretty clear that from this point forward, it doesn't hold that benign meaning anymore but is now to be considered a racist symbol:



If you would have read the statement more carefully, Blizzard did this not because they were certain that the hand-sign in this context was used in a racist manner, but simply because a few idiots associate themselves with it in such a manner.

And all this, only because some internet rando who was watching that video was triggered by this. Let's assume for a moment that the person in question was indeed a racist, congratulations, you now have played right into his hands by outright banning a hand-gesture that other people use in innocuous ways. Blizzard actually allowed the subversion of this hand-sign by acknowledging its alternate meaning. By resorting to this censorious approach, they've only enabled this, instead of simply refusing to let a couple of idiots dictate to others what they can express.



No it's not meaningless how that symbol was used in the past. Also you're merely assuming that it was used in such a manner, but you have absolutely no way of knowing for sure.



As you said so yourself, YOU were the one bringing up the swastika, basically trying to godwin your way through this discussion. I've merely explained to you that invoking Nazism by establishing an exaggerated link between the swastika and this hand-sign is strenuous at best for obvious reasons. You don't have a point, you just want to evoke Nazis in order to make a baseless appeal to emotion because you have no leg to stand on.



There used to be a time when milk was considered a white supremacist dogwhistle. If you care so much about this hand-sign being a hidden Nazi symbol, you should also bee deeply concerned about this. But you're quite obviously not concerned because you're either unaware of this connotation or simply don't care if a couple of idiots try to subvert its meaning.

Hence why you're merely proving my point that by simply ignoring these kinds of associations, you deprive that subversive symbolism of its nefarious influence over our means of expression. So thanks for merely providing further evidence that your bone-headed approach is enabling this racist symbolism in the first place.

I made no mention or assumption of the person in the video at all. Nor did I call for it to be banned. I just refuse to pretend that this symbol isn't being used as a white supremacist symbol by actual crazy white supremacists because it has an alternative meaning. The fact that it had some other meaning before, much like swastika, is of no consequence which was my point on that. The only person appealing to hyperbole is your own bone-headed view of the world trying to say I said anybody using it is like Hitler. There have been mass murderers using it nonetheless.

 

[Whitesnake]

I made no mention or assumption of the person in the video at all. Nor did I call for it to be banned. I just refuse to pretend that this symbol isn't being used as a white supremacist symbol by actual crazy white supremacist because it has an alternative meaning. The fact that it had some other meaning before, much like swastika, is of no consequence which was my point of that. The only person appealing to hyperbole is your own bone-headed view of the world trying to say I said anybody using it is like Hitler. There have been mass murderers using it nonetheless.

What new meaning does it have?

Who’s using it in that manner?

Give specific documented examples of people who are proven to be white supermecists that are using that hand gesture in a way that relates to white supremacy. Back up your claims.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

I made no mention or assumption of the person in the video at all. Nor did I call for it to be banned. I just refuse to pretend that this symbol isn't being used as a white supremacist symbol by actual crazy white supremacist because it has an alternative meaning. The fact that it had some other meaning before, much like swastika, is of no consequence which was my point of that. The only person appealing to hyperbole is your own bone-headed view of the world trying to say I said anybody using it is like Hitler. There have been mass murderers using it nonetheless.

Given the historical usage of the middle-finger as a sign of offense, there is likely a significantly closer link between violent criminals and that hand-sign than there is between white supremacists and the sign.

The problem with you ideologues is you are under the grand delusion that your paradigm can accurately parse reality. But it clearly does not since you're tripping over yourself to rally against a hand sign. This is an ideology of weaklings and idiots, people who see The Enemy behind every wink and beneath every symbol. You'd probably make great bedfellows with Illuminati conspiracy theorists who make 45m YouTube videos about all the Masonic imagery in hip-hop and pop music as proof that the Illuminati controls everything.

Russiagate. sign. We're watching the birth of a hilarious new group of brainwashed idiots.

 

[stargateheaven]

hm. gave it a think, and decided not to agree.

 

[Three]

What new meaning does it have?

Who’s using it in that manner?

Give specific documented examples of people who are proven to be white supermecists that are using that hand gesture in a way that relates to white supremacy. Back up your claims.

I did if you read the comments.

Given the historical usage of the middle-finger as a sign of offense, there is likely a significantly closer link between violent criminals and that hand-sign than there is between white supremacists and the sign.

Sure and if somebody flipped me the bird I would understand what it means. Just as if I were not white and I walk past a bunch of skinheads who show me that sign I wouldn't think hey they are telling me they're OK while staring at me menacingly. I'm not rallying against the sign. If you click the link in my comments you will see I use it to gesture 'nice'.

 

[strange headache]

I made no mention or assumption of the person in the video at all. Nor did I call for it to be banned.

Then what in the flying f*ck are you doing in this topic about Blizzard essentially banning a hand-gesture because somebody showed it on stream?

I just refuse to pretend that this symbol isn't being used as a white supremacist symbol by actual crazy white supremacist because it has an alternative meaning.

So, what's your point? Other than stating the obvious only to imply that Blizzard's decision was correct. After all, that's the point of this discussion here.

The fact that it had some other meaning before, much like swastika, is of no consequence which was my point of that.

You don't have a point other than that some people associate the hand-sign with racist ideology. Well duh... we certainly don't need you to tell us that.

The only person appealing to hyperbole is your own bone-headed view of the world trying to say I said anybody using it is like Hitler. There have been mass murderers using it nonetheless.

That's rich coming from the person who is unable to formulate a coherent argument without constantly godwinning and invoking mass murderers. I've already explained to you, the fact that the New Zealand shooter used that hand-sign doesn't make it taboo for others to use it and it certainly doesn't imply that those who use it do so in the same way as the New Zealand shooter. So all of this is of absolutely no significance in the context of this discussion, other than to abuse the emotional connotations with this horrible incident only to manipulate other into swallowing your bullcrap.

 

[CDiggity]

The funny thing is that the OK symbol is the American Sign Language sign for the letter F. I once knew a deaf kid whose sign name in ASL was drawing an invisible curved line upward from the mouth with the F sign. It is unfortunate that your name literally means white supremacy to some people. Fun fact, she was also from Costa Rica.

It sure would suck if she somehow became and OWL superstar and fans couldn't sign her name to her.

Some people are so obsessed with reading coded language that they give power to things that would have faded away if simply ignored.