PA on EA
- Thread starter GhaleonEB
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FrenchMovieTheme
Member
you shouldn't love EA, but to boycott them and get your panties in a bunch over it is pointless. it's not "fair" that the 49ers have so much dead money against the cap that we can't afford to sign any free agents, but i'm not going to boycott the NFL because of mistakes our management made and oversights we made 10 years ago.
remember, EA wasn't GIVEN the great success they have had. they earned it. i understand people are going to resent the top dog, but just get over it. EA is able to do this because they have (to this point) made all the right moves. who knows, maybe this one will backfire on them
remember, EA wasn't GIVEN the great success they have had. they earned it. i understand people are going to resent the top dog, but just get over it. EA is able to do this because they have (to this point) made all the right moves. who knows, maybe this one will backfire on them
I was going to point out in the other thread that most of the people complaining weren't even sports fans. Just like last year with ESPN vs Madden... A lot of the people in the other thread even started their posts with "I'm not a sports fan" or "I hate sports, but..."FrenchMovieTheme said:
I can't say I agree with the decision to limit the license to 1 company, but it was up for grabs and EA nabbed it.
I appreciate those values of the license, but the amount of value heaped on the license seems inordinately high. You're basically saying that game isn't worth playing without the license and a game with the license can be excused for several compromises within the rest of the experience. As a consumer, you are ruling out any other form of competition other than license-based competition. You're asking these publishers to rely on a property that is not theirs in order to have any chance of competing effectively, a property that the owner is in no way obliged to contract out to anyone and everyone who asks for it. That was never going to be a recipe for true competition.DJPS2 said:
I have no love for EA but the hypocrisy is killing me. If it was Sega who had secured the NFL license the reactions would be quite different. Instead of hating on EA you should rather direct your hostility at the NFL who decided to whore out its brand to the highest bidder.
FrenchMovieTheme said:
Haha, you worked the niners into this. Nice. I'm not boycotting EA (though I doubt I'll buy Madden), I enjoy the Burnout series, and I love SSX, but if I see any signs of staleness in either of those titles that I see in a lot of EA's games (of course, I should point out that "stale" does not mean that a game isn't a competent production, innovation is just particularly important to me when I feel a product needs it), then I won't "boycott" so much as just avoid EA out of sheer boredom.
You paint EA as somehow immune from criticism simply because of their past business success, yet to many people the way they achieved this success is the reason for the criticism, so in some cases you can't even separate the two. And even beyond that, the fact that EA has made profits doesn't give them a free pass from criticism. Their reward for profits is profits, if you want to accord them more than that, fine, but don't assert that other people are obligated to do the same.
kaching said:
It seems shallow, but again-- it's expectation. How many average gamers would look at a game that "suddenly" has no real players, no real teams, and no real players... and want to buy it (as a simulation) instead of a game that already has those key ingredients in place?
This really applies to simulations. If you were to take, say, Midway's Super High Impact Football (which I used to really get a kick out of, no pun intended) or even Arch-Rivals, there was never any expectation of real teams or players. The games were overblown, adrenaline-laced versions of sports that people knew.
It's just my take on it, though. Will I buy an unlicensed football game next year? I don't know. Midway's game has a good premise to it... and I still love Blitz (except for Blitz Pro, which I don't even count). I don't want to be bothered with having to customize everything in Sega's potential game when the work's already been done in another comparable package.
Sports games are a different animal than other genres. There's a lot of name and license notoriety involved. If Tony Hawk were to jump ship from Activision, I have a feeling that Neversoft's Pro Skater games would suffer, for example.
Shogmaster
Member
Miguel said:
English motherfucker! Do you speak it!?!
I think what makes this even more annoying is the fact that EA folks were saying that they would obliterate the Sega games earlier this year, and generally saying that the Madden & Crew games were so good that no one would consider purchasing a Sega title instead. However, instead of stick with their smarmy "quality" arguement, they took the low road and used "corporate violence" to win.
It's sort of like if the EA and Sega guys were in a track meet, and the EA runner bragged about being able to beat the Sega guy by a good two minutes... then proceeded to try to convice the judge to ban the Sega guy from the meet itself.
It's sort of like if the EA and Sega guys were in a track meet, and the EA runner bragged about being able to beat the Sega guy by a good two minutes... then proceeded to try to convice the judge to ban the Sega guy from the meet itself.
ironichaos
Member
I think I know what it means...
FrenchMovieTheme said:
You are making less and less sense with each post.
I'm still amazed that you have this psycic link with everyone on the board and know that despite what people actually post here, only 1% of us prefer the 2K series over Madden. You need to start infomercials, stat.
And EA may have earned their success with Madden in the past, building up the franchise over many years, but doesn't this make for an odd coup de grace?
1988 (or whenever the first one was) - 2004: Madden competes with and defeats other games.
2005-???? Madden has no competition because EA shoved a load of cash up the NFL's ass.
I think that pretty much covers it.
FrenchMovieTheme said:
Ah, but what if someone came in and bought the 49ers and moved them to another city? Would that not irritate you? Or, would you just shrug and go "Well, we shoulda went to more games and bought more merchandise"? The bottom line is, sure, what EA did makes sense to them from a business standpoint. It just sucks for anyone who cares about football games.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
you dont know how much of a dream that would be to me...
but would i be pissed if someone MOVED the niners? yes. could i blame them after the city wouldn't fit much of the bill for a new stadium and our team was continually getting our ass beat? no, i could understand it.
i dont want to be a dick but read closer. i did not say 99% OF EVERYONE ON THE BOARD LOVES MADDEN OVER ESPN! I said, of the true hardcore football-sports gaming fans on this board (which i doubt you're one of), 99% prefer madden. why is that so hard to believe? i'm in leagues with them, i talk to them in irc. shouldn't come as a shock man
would EA outsell espn 2k6 if both had an nfl license? yes. would it outsell it by as much? no. as a business EA is assuring they stay king. that is what you do in business. keep in mind EA didn't shove a load of cash up the NFL's ass randomly. the nfl was shopping the license around, and EA bought it.
what if you were an EA exec, and the NFL called you up and said "Mr. Ghaleon, we know your company makes madden football and we just want you to know that we are looking to sell exclusive rights to use our product in games. We have called a few different companies already, please let us know if you are interested." What would you say?? "Oh gee I don't know NFL, it would be a bitch move... i feel so bad for sega how will they compete? No... no i just can't do it. Take your license elsewhere..."
anyway you dice it (even though i love competition) EA is getting a bum rap from people who are just out to take jabs at them for any reason
This is great news.
I was the ultimate VC fanboy back in 2000 with the releases of NFL2k1 and NBA2k1. I didn't even buy Madden 2001, it was the first time I'd missed a Madden, ever, although I wish I'd skipped out on Madden 99 and of course everyone missed out on Madden 97 (developed by VC no less and cancelled due to sheer crapiness).
However, after that magical 2000 ride where NFL2k1 got insane acclaim (#10 game of all time on gamerankings.com, the closest traditional sports game is a soccer game at #48) and sold a million copies (an amazing feat considering it was only on the Dreamcast), Visual Concepts has let the franchise become stale, boring and inconsistent. NFL2k2 is one of the worst football games I have ever played, and while the games have improved since then, they haven't improved much.
Hopefully now with 5 whole years to get it together, NFL2k10 ( :lol ) will be somewhere closer to when the series was actually good.
I was the ultimate VC fanboy back in 2000 with the releases of NFL2k1 and NBA2k1. I didn't even buy Madden 2001, it was the first time I'd missed a Madden, ever, although I wish I'd skipped out on Madden 99 and of course everyone missed out on Madden 97 (developed by VC no less and cancelled due to sheer crapiness).
However, after that magical 2000 ride where NFL2k1 got insane acclaim (#10 game of all time on gamerankings.com, the closest traditional sports game is a soccer game at #48) and sold a million copies (an amazing feat considering it was only on the Dreamcast), Visual Concepts has let the franchise become stale, boring and inconsistent. NFL2k2 is one of the worst football games I have ever played, and while the games have improved since then, they haven't improved much.
Hopefully now with 5 whole years to get it together, NFL2k10 ( :lol ) will be somewhere closer to when the series was actually good.
:lol
FrenchMovieTheme said:
So you don't have a phycic link with all fans, just the hard core? Seriously, what you cite is anecdotal evidence based on who you hang out with. What I'm saying is you simply can't make a blanket statement about an utterly measurable category of people on this board. How to you define hard-core? How many are out there? Have you polled them? How big is your sample?
Don't claim that 99% of 'hardcore football fans on this board' support Madden when you have zero way to back that up. What you mean is that 99% of the football fans you hang with online are Madden fans....and it makes sense that Madden fans would hang together.
That's like saying 99% of AA members are alcoholics. Really? No shit?
Oh God, This Argument Part XXII: The Reresurrection.
For the last time, it doesn't fucking matter to the argument of whether this is bad for gamers that fanboy VC lovers would be just as happy about this if it were the other way around as you fanboy EA lovers are now. It's good or it's bad, regardless of what biased fanboys think. I can say with 100% certainty that I would be pissed at any company that did this, I think VC needs pushing at least as much as anyone else. Why the fuck would anyone in their rights minds gloating? Or even whining about how everyone criticizing them should stop being so mean like you are? Only a blind corporate entity-loving moron would do that, a point I think you made very eloquently.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
dude, stop living in this fantasy world where everyone who likes madden on these boards NEVER GAVE ESPN A CHANCE! perhaps saying "99%!" was a mistake. i don't know FOR A FACT that 99% of the hardcore gamers on here prefer madden.
i define someone as a hardcore gamer when they are so into sports games that they will participate online and play in online leagues, diagram (in detail) the good and bad about a game, and be able to TALK about a game with some intelligence. i'm fairly certain i know most of the people on this board that fit that description. and i'm fairly certain that the vast majority of them prefer madden. could i be wrong? sure. could my jesus freak buddy be wrong about god existing? sure. NOW who's making outrageous comparisons!
here is what i'm trying to say: YOU are looking at the above situation as "Oh, he's got himself and 20 other madden fans. OF COURSE they're going to like madden!"
when the REALITY of the situation is this "Oh, he's got himselve and 20 other FOOTBALL FANS, and they like madden better." Why is that so hard to swallow? You want me to take a poll of the 20-30 people who participated in our ESPN league and also have madden and see which they like better? actually, i did take a poll midway through season 1 in our ESPN league. guess what the last count i remember was? 15 to 1. guess who the 1 was? Konex. do i guaranteed know EVERY sports gaming fan on here? no. but if someone has no time to be in an online league, they have no time to get into a decent discussion on the little pros and cons of a game (not "the graphics sucked, they didnt change anything!"), then i dont consider them a hardcore sports gamer. does that answer your question now?
FrenchMovieTheme said:
The NFL will make that call to somebody else in 5 years. You see all these companies like Viacom wanting to get more involved in the videogame business? The NFL will offer the lucrative football license to those companies and some of those companies will have more money and more incentives to offer the NFL over EA. That'll be business too. It's a move that could potentially,and imo likely given the NFL's penchant for switching licensees,see the 2 best football games have their authenticity ripped to shreds in a 5 year span.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
i understand that zillion. now who is going to be up in arms when EA loses the license? certainly not the people whining about EA getting the license right now. this isn't just about fair and unfair, it is an opportunity/justification for people who don't buy or play EA games to bash the company
FrenchMovieTheme said:
Well no one's going to be "up in arms" b/c EA fucking took advantage of it in the first place. All people will do is talk about how extremely shitty exclusive licensing is like they are now. Trust me, if Microsoft or VC had done this (though EA would never let it happen), I would be pissed too, and anyone who wouldn't be pissed is an idiot or doesn't care about the games they will be paying to play, so that argument still doesn't prove anything other than that some people are hypocritical fanboys.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
astro, i'm telling you that i seriously doubt a good portion of the people complaining about this even PLAY or enjoy football games. there is hardcore EA hate here, and that's no secret. i agree with you that no competition is shitty. but i also think if ANYONE should have an exclusive license with the nfl, it should be EA because they make the best football games on the market
Brofist
Member
Actually all the hardcore football gamers I know buy a few different football games over different systems. Yes they buy Madden and prefer much about it, but some like having another football game to compare to it..actually preferring some aspects of others (well others being ESPN) better.
I doubt any of them will stop buying Madden because of this and/or boycott EA games, but I can tell you there will be some disappointment over this no matter what.
I doubt any of them will stop buying Madden because of this and/or boycott EA games, but I can tell you there will be some disappointment over this no matter what.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
i prefer some aspects of ESPN as well, i just dont prefer it overall. rarely will you find someone who has played both games and says there is not one thing they prefer about the one they like less overall.
Brofist
Member
FrenchMovieTheme said:
of course...but I think that's where the diasappointment lies. It's nice to be able to have a 2nd option because from year to year you get that pleasant surprise and a Gameday 98 or NFL2K pops out of nowhere. Like I said no one I know will quit buying Madden (even if they say they will, that'll be a distant memory next August anyway ;P)