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[Shin]

We know that there's about 25-30% die space saved from the node shrink, what will it be used for?
More transistors? doesn't that go paired with the amount of Compute Units as well or completely different?
I think they will have to go with a vapor chamber to cool that amount of power considering the box size.

 

[Mikey Jr.]

I think Sony just waits. They have nothing to prove. The Pro does everything that most gamers outside high-end PCs care for.... markets these days react to threats to stay successful and they predict what threats might be around the corner to stymie their growth. Right now Sony could not give a shit about Xbox One X because the baseline is no competition.

While they will lose slight ground to third parties they won't lose that much, and what they do lose will easily be made up of superstar 10M possible sellers like Spiderman and marketing deals. There is simply no way to stop the PS4 train at this point. And if Spiderman succeeds--I think it will--the advent of a 200 dollar PS4 soon after could seriously destroy everyone around them.

Why go half way and piss off your Pro customers and confuse everyone else with some shitty upgrade?

I'm thinking 2020 here unless they really feel the need to get something out there.

Yeah, I feel like this too. 2020 sounds reasonable. The Xbox x isn't a serious competitor.

I thought for sure Ms was going to come out and say "next gen, begins now!" or something equally as crazy to disrupt the status quo.

But at the end of the day, it's a 500 dollar ps4 pro.
Mehhh.

 

[Shin]

TDP seems to be better than what rumors were suggesting, even if it's the cut down version.
That's still 2x the performance in 1 year, 60w more than RX480 and for about $150 more retail.
I wouldn't worry about TDP too much especially with 7nm in play and a completely new architecture with Navi.

 

[Theonik]

That TDP is a no-no yeah. The thing is, that even Scorpio people had doubts on wrt practicality because of how hot those cards get it took 16nm maturing and the 580 to make those clocks possible. Cooling is quite expensive on the Scorpio too.

Realistically? 7nm will help but it depends on when it comes and how costs work out on that node, yields etc. I do think they can't ship something with less than 8-10Tf in practice so they might just delay it since PS4 will still be healthy at that point. Pro buys them time.

 

[BradleyLove]

I'd like to see Sony release a PS5 and PS5 Pro at the same time.

Despite what we hear, 4K adoption is still pretty small. I'd hazard the vast majority of TVs being used by a PS5 will be 1080p.

To that end, a 6TF + Zen console releasing in 2019/2020 should be a monster for 1080p gaming. And it should be relatively cheap.

Then have the PS5 Pro be 12-15TF + Zen and have that as the 4K version. Price it higher and market it as the enthusiast device.

Bob is your uncle. Consumers have a clear choice of two SKUs, each fulfilling a specific technological need.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I'd like to see Sony release a PS5 and PS5 Pro at the same time.

That's nonsensical suggestion.

The only reason PS4 Pro was possible for Sony was because they waited 3 years after 28nm went out of style and used 16nm fabrication. It will be impossible for Sonyto ever pack a machine worth a "Pro" moniker on top of PS5, when the base PS5 will already be using the state of the art nanometer process to get as high as the transistors will allow.

They will never intentionally low ball what they can do with PS5 and withhold people from coming on board just to charge for a simultaneous launch with a more powerful box at a higher price and a higher cost to themselves.

 

[Shin]

That's nonsensical suggestion.

The only reason PS4 Pro was possible for Sony was because they waited 3 years after 28nm went out of style and used 16nm fabrication. It will be impossible for Sonyto ever pack a machine worth a "Pro" moniker on top of PS5, when the base PS5 will already be using the state of the art nanometer process to get as high as the transistors will allow.

They will never intentionally low ball what they can do with PS5 and withhold people from coming on board just to charge for a simultaneous launch with a more powerful box at a higher price and a higher cost to themselves.

It is possible, with the Pro they pretty much know there is a market for a more premium version, 1/5 isn't bad by any means.
Margin is also probably higher and AMD would definitely want to sell parts they also make more money on.
Just like the shift from 28nm to 16nm happen there will be another switch 7 > 5 within PS5's lifetime, which would be under the 3 years of PS5's launch.
Along with that AMD's new GPU (the one after Navi) will also be out by then, so you'll end up with the exact situation that happen with PS4 / Pro.
It is a smaller shrink but it is one nonetheless and if it's viable then what's to stop Sony from releasing another refresh to cater that market.

One could even argue that 7>5nm won't be worth the wait and they could launch 2 SKU's from the get go and get as many to buy the more expensive model instead of missing out on 3 years of sale.
I'll tell you one thing though those hardcore players that want more power in a console ain't going to be content with 10TF, I as hell ain't.

 

[Graphics Horse]

That's nonsensical suggestion.

The only reason PS4 Pro was possible for Sony was because they waited 3 years after 28nm went out of style and used 16nm fabrication. It will be impossible for Sonyto ever pack a machine worth a "Pro" moniker on top of PS5, when the base PS5 will already be using the state of the art nanometer process to get as high as the transistors will allow.

They will never intentionally low ball what they can do with PS5 and withhold people from coming on board just to charge for a simultaneous launch with a more powerful box at a higher price and a higher cost to themselves.

A lot of the XBonX advantage comes with being able to run faster thanks to expensive cooling, so I wouldn't say it's impossible for them to offer multiple performance models, I don't think they'd be interested in doing it from launch though.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

80 CUs, 8 disabled for redundancy and yields = 72 active CUs. With memory clocked from 1300 to 1500MHz, that would give us 12 to 13,8TFlops. That's feasible, I feel.

Assuming you mean GPU clocks... that would be the highest clockspeed ever seen in a console ever.

XB1X with its expensive vapour chamber cooling and cherry-picked board component assembly is just a smidgen over 1GHz.

Expecting > 1GHz for the GPU on PS5 is unrealistic, imho (provided Sony wants an APU design targeted at a $399 launch price).

The only way I see them going much above 1GHz on the GPU clocks is if the Navi architecture is somehow exceptional in terms of performance per Watt (much much much more than Vega).

 

[Theonik]

This is largely because AMD's GPU designs are very inefficient power wise. But Scorpio clocks aren't just because of the cooling a very large factor is big process improvements since last year AMD has made. 7nm will help a lot in driving clocks up. I expect over 1Ghz for next gen GPU clocks.

 

[BradleyLove]

That's nonsensical suggestion.

The only reason PS4 Pro was possible for Sony was because they waited 3 years after 28nm went out of style and used 16nm fabrication. It will be impossible for Sonyto ever pack a machine worth a "Pro" moniker on top of PS5, when the base PS5 will already be using the state of the art nanometer process to get as high as the transistors will allow.

They will never intentionally low ball what they can do with PS5 and withhold people from coming on board just to charge for a simultaneous launch with a more powerful box at a higher price and a higher cost to themselves.

It's nonsensical to offer a cheaper route into the PlayStation ecosystem for those who have no need of the power required for 4K?

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

This is largely because AMD's GPU designs are very inefficient power wise. But Scorpio clocks aren't just because of the cooling a very large factor is big process improvements since last year AMD has made. 7nm will help a lot in driving clocks up. I expect over 1Ghz for next gen GPU clocks.

Surely, as with every node transition, it's a tradeoff between clockspeed, number of execution units vs power consumption (heat generation).

I'm of the understanding that 7nm will deliver a higher transistor density OR higher clocks... not necessarily both.

If Sony/MS push the limits of die-area like they did with PS4/XB1 at 7nm, I don't see there being any reason to believe that they'll also achieve higher clocks than this gen (i.e. 850 to 900 MHz) especially with a relatively less mature 7nm process in 2019 (than 28nm was in 2013).

 

[Shin]

This is largely because AMD's GPU designs are very inefficient power wise. But Scorpio clocks aren't just because of the cooling a very large factor is big process improvements since last year AMD has made. 7nm will help a lot in driving clocks up. I expect over 1Ghz for next gen GPU clocks.

One would have to assume that everything they learned so far will be put into their next architecture.
Xbox is pushing 1172MHz (up from 1120MHz of RX480), let's assume the GPU has 64CU as is average with most AMD cards and runs at 1GHz that only gives you 8.2TF.
I ain't seeing it, unless that's the $399 some of you want so badly.

 

[Lady Gaia]

I'm of the understanding that 7nm will deliver a higher transistor density OR higher clocks... not necessarily both.

You get higher transistor density by definition with 7nm. The tradeoff is between higher clocks and reduced power usage. The latter gives you the opportunity to increase transistor count, which buys you more of a performance gain than increasing clock speed if your problem can be easily parallelized.

That's why GPUs usually keep clocks largely the same and increase CUs while CPUs opt for some clock speed increases to improve single-threaded execution while slowly increasing core count.

 

[Theonik]

It's nonsensical to offer a cheaper route into the PlayStation ecosystem for those who have no need of the power required for 4K?

You are assuming that the base PS5 will not cost $399 which it very likely will. The obsession with 1080p is also kinda misguided. Increasing rendering resolution improves graphics quality across the board. You are also lowballing what the system will be capable off. $399 and 8TF should be seen as the floor for PS5. Sony's comments steer us in that direction.

Surely, as with every node transition, it's a tradeoff between clockspeed, number of execution units vs power consumption (heat generation).

I'm of the understanding that 7nm will deliver a higher transistor density OR higher clocks... not necessarily both.

If Sony/MS push the limits of die-area like they did with PS4/XB1 at 7nm, I don't see there being any reason to believe that they'll also achieve higher clocks than this gen (i.e. 850 to 900 MHz) especially with a relatively less mature 7nm process in 2019 (than 28nm was in 2013).

These trade-offs are actually quite complicated and there isn't an imaginary slider that says you get one but not the other while they play off of each other. Going 7nm means you get higher density by default, it then all depends on what you do with the TDP that you are given. 1,265Mhz doesn't seem realistic as a clock speed but it largely depends on what Sony chooses to do.

PS4 Pro for instance has more CUs AND faster clocks to achieve its targets. Sony and any console maker plans these systems years in advance using complex estimates/targets and will adjust based on what's available and even push the system back I would expect no sooner than 2020 for Sony.

One would have to assume that everything they learned so far will be put into their next architecture.
Xbox is pushing 1172MHz (up from 1120MHz of RX480), let's assume the GPU has 64CU as is average with most AMD cards and runs at 1GHz that only gives you 8.2TF.
I ain't seeing it, unless that's the $399 some of you want so badly.

That's not so bad and yeah don't see them charging more than $399 but I'll refrain judgement until we get a real basis to speculate upon.

 

[Thorrgal]

I believe MOST games will run on Ps4 and ps5, it will just be 30 vs 60 FPS, which most users will jump at in a millisecond.
.

This made laugh...95% of users can't tell the difference between 30 fps and 60 fps!! Heck, most of the users don't know what FPS means!!

NeoGAF is indeed a bubble

 

[Theonik]

This made laugh...95% of users can't tell the difference between 30 fps and 60 fps!! Heck, most of the users don't know what FPS means!!

NeoGAF is indeed a bubble

You can definitely feel the difference even if you can't really conceptualise it.

 

[ZeoVGM]

I believe MOST games will run on Ps4 and ps5, it will just be 30 vs 60 FPS, which most users will jump at in a millisecond.

Not a chance.

When PS5 launches, it will be like every other new console before it: the launch games will only play on PS5. Not on PS4.

 

[AmyS]

Not a chance.

When PS5 launches, it will be like every other new console before it: the launch games will only play on PS5. Not on PS4.

Yep. PS5 is going to be exactly what it sounds like, a next generation PlayStation with its own games that won't run on PS4 or PS4 Pro.

I'm also starting to feel 2019 as a launch date is a pretty good possibility again.

 

[Shin]

I get where you're coming from, looking at Sony's recent financials the decline already started.
It's like 3 years max to keep people excited then things start to slow down, that or the majority already owns one (though PS1/PS2 sold well over 100m compared to where PS4 is ATM).

 

[AmyS]

Edit: wrong thread.

 

[dano1]

Yep. PS5 is going to be exactly what it sounds like, a next generation PlayStation with its own games that won't run on PS4 or PS4 Pro.

I'm also starting to feel 2019 as a launch date is a pretty good possibility again.

The only thing you might have right is the launch date.

They didn't design the PS4, PS4Pro and PS5 with PC architecture for no reason.

 

[Melchiah]

The only thing you might have right is the launch date.

They didn't design the PS4, PS4Pro and PS5 with PC architecture for no reason.

So, if we assume the sequel to Horizon is released after the PS5 launch, it would be playable on PS4+Pro as well? I find that hard to believe, since it wouldn't serve their interests to not persuade the PS4 users to move on to PS5, and the current CPUs would limit what Guerrilla can do with the game.

The x86 architecture should allow better backwards compatibility, visual and/or performance enhancements in older games, and most importantly easier game development compared to Emotion Engine and Cell. When the games become more demanding, the older systems are likely to be left out, just like there are minimum system requirements on PC.

 

[Raonak]

What does he mean? the PS4 Pro and (Scorpio) are half steps because there's no games that are exclusive to the new model. The CPU didn't get a substantial bump. While the GPUs did.

Even though the architecture is gonna stay the same, to maintain compatibility.
The PS5 is gonna have a beefy CPU, and there's definitely gonna be "PS5-only" games.

Whats the distinction between half step and full step that pachter is making?

 

[Bitch Pudding]

The only thing you might have right is the launch date.

They didn't design the PS4, PS4Pro and PS5 with PC architecture for no reason.

PS5 will have exclusive games.

 

[AmyS]

The only thing you might have right is the launch date.

They didn't design the PS4, PS4Pro and PS5 with PC architecture for no reason.

PC architecture is not a valid reason for PS4 / PS4 Pro to play games made for PS5.

The PS2 used a MIPS CPU architecture (MIPS R5900) as did PS1 (MIPS R3000A) and while the PS2 could play PS1 games, PS1 could not play PS2 games.

A console is more than just a CPU instruction set. Sony still believes in console generations and will no doubt have its own controller that won't work with PS4 consoles.

 

[dano1]

So, if we assume the sequel to Horizon is released after the PS5 launch, it would be playable on PS4+Pro as well? I find that hard to believe, since it wouldn't serve their interests to not persuade the PS4 users to move on to PS5, and the current CPUs would limit what Guerrilla can do with the game.

The x86 architecture should allow better backwards compatibility, visual and/or performance enhancements in older games, and most importantly easier game development compared to Emotion Engine and Cell. When the games become more demanding, the older systems are likely to be left out, just like there are minimum system requirements on PC.

Well considering most money is made selling software it wouldn't be very smart to abandon probably 80 million PS4 owners to sell to maybe 10 million PS5 owners? And just like PC the game is made for the hottest hardware out there and scaled back for older systems.

 

[dano1]

PC architecture is not a valid reason for PS4 / PS4 Pro to play games made for PS5.

The PS2 used a MIPS CPU architecture (MIPS R5900) as did PS1 (MIPS R3000A) and while the PS2 could play PS1 games, PS1 could not play PS2 games.

A console is more than just a CPU instruction set. Sony still believes in console generations and will no doubt have its own controller that won't work with PS4 consoles.

All those old systems had totally different architecture. Nothing was compatible. It was either emulation or a complete PS2 chip that was included in some PS3's.

So explain why PS4 Pro games work in a PS4?

 

[Kyoufu]

All those old systems had totally different architecture. Nothing was compatible. It was either emulation or a complete PS2 chip that was included in some PS3's.

So explain why PS4 Pro games work in a PS4?

Because it's a PS4...

 

[TheSinkingKnight]

Well considering most money is made selling software it wouldn't be very smart to abandon probably 80 million PS4 owners to sell to maybe 10 million PS5 owners? And just like PC the game is made for the hottest hardware out there and scaled back for older systems.

Why release PS4 just to abandon the 80 million PS3 owners to maybe sell 5 million PS4s?
There will be cross-gen releases for the first two years, just like it always is.

Eventually, scaling back to older systems is not worth it. Case in point: Black Ops III on 360/PS3. Better off not getting a scaled down port.

 

[dano1]

Why release PS4 just to abandon the 80 million PS3 owners to maybe sell 5 million PS4s?
There will be cross-gen releases for the first two years, just like it always is.

Eventually, scaling back to older systems is not worth it. Case in point: Black Ops III on 360/PS3. Better off not getting a scaled down port.

It does sound stupid doesn't it!! That's why those days are done!! Forward and backward compatibility started with the PS4.

Give me one good reason this isn't a good idea?

 

[Shin]

If they go with Pro's method of slower RAM (DRAM) then it brings a interesting situation, that is if it's 4GB.
Since Pro only have 1GB (2x512MB), a secondary memory pool for 4GB would consists of 2 sticks minimum (2GB each).
There's no other way to go around this, it's the most expensive chip Samsung has and the highest density, rated at 1.2v (in compliance with JEDEC DDR4 standard).
So instead of 2x 512MB you'd have 2x 2GB on each side of the mainboard (clam-shell mode), anything than that would be too less for the OS.
If you look at the other setups/capacity you'll notice that they would take up too much space on the PCB not to mention draw more current as well.
We could see a 12GB GDDR6 + 4GB DDR4L setup, it would be the cheapest/best way to keep costs down and 12GB for purely gaming is still quite a lot (would be 384-bit bus).

Otherwise I don't see how they can use slower RAM and have enough of it to run the OS, I honestly don't see them cutting into that 12GB for OS tasks.
Here's the specifications for the memory: http://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/products/dram/consumer-dram/ddr4-component/K4A8G085WB?ia=2420 and http://www.samsung.com/semiconducto...02/8G_B_DDR4_Samsung_Spec_Rev2_1_Feb_17-0.pdf

 

[Panajev2001a]

It does sound stupid doesn't it!! That's why those days are done!! Forward and backward compatibility started with the PS4.

Give me one good reason this isn't a good idea?

Backward compatibility is great, no software left behind. Forward? Force software to be held back by a previous hardware instead of letting it be up to the developers whether they want to release the cross generation game on both platforms... and welcome to the age of HW you use a bit more to show off and not to actually take advantage of it .

 

[Earendil]

So, if we assume the sequel to Horizon is released after the PS5 launch, it would be playable on PS4+Pro as well? I find that hard to believe, since it wouldn't serve their interests to not persuade the PS4 users to move on to PS5, and the current CPUs would limit what Guerrilla can do with the game.

The x86 architecture should allow better backwards compatibility, visual and/or performance enhancements in older games, and most importantly easier game development compared to Emotion Engine and Cell. When the games become more demanding, the older systems are likely to be left out, just like there are minimum system requirements on PC.

I hope Horizon 2 is released on PS4 because I'm not an early adopter and I don't want to wait to play it. But that's just me being selfish.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Well considering most money is made selling software it wouldn't be very smart to abandon probably 80 million PS4 owners to sell to maybe 10 million PS5 owners? And just like PC the game is made for the hottest hardware out there and scaled back for older systems.

Making PC Games scale to so many configurations is also expensive and not to break the game the higher end configurations have a lot of cosmetic touch ups but not fundamental changes and are not a big jump ahead that justifies that more expensive HW in full. The current larger and larger PC model is also helped by console generations which push the bar higher every 5-6 years and provide a stable easy to target level that higher end PC can just tune to 11 with insanely high resolutions and higher framerate and quality for all sort of effects.

Console titles can be more cost effective as reaching a pool of 80 million players require very minimal changes to the way the game is made (most multiplatform Xbox One and PS4 titles can easily target both platforms very well and reach a huge amount of users with only two well known and stable HW specs).

 

[Curufinwe]

It does sound stupid doesn't it!! That's why those days are done!! Forward and backward compatibility started with the PS4.

Give me one good reason this isn't a good idea?

Having to ensure PS5 games would also run on a PS4 with its weak 2013 CPU would massively hold back what PS5 developers could do, which is why the PS5 will have exclusive games.

 

[Atomski]

I'd like to see Sony release a PS5 and PS5 Pro at the same time.

Despite what we hear, 4K adoption is still pretty small. I'd hazard the vast majority of TVs being used by a PS5 will be 1080p.

To that end, a 6TF + Zen console releasing in 2019/2020 should be a monster for 1080p gaming. And it should be relatively cheap.

Then have the PS5 Pro be 12-15TF + Zen and have that as the 4K version. Price it higher and market it as the enthusiast device.

Bob is your uncle. Consumers have a clear choice of two SKUs, each fulfilling a specific technological need.

Then what will Sony do to convince you to rebuy the console mid gen then? A ultra pro?

 

[Negotiator]

Bad news:

http://www.gamersnexus.net/industry/3022-video-cards-facing-more-price-hurdles-gddr-increase
http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20170816PD205.html

I wonder how this is going to affect current-gen consoles, and especially Scorpio with its 12 modules of GDDR5 RAM.

 

[Pasedo]

Sounds like a way for the industry to milk more money. Do half steps by taking advantage of current tech from AMD which costs them less over time as AMD tries to get rid of excess inventory and redesign for their full step on the newest architecture offerring.

 

[kyser73]

Well considering most money is made selling software it wouldn't be very smart to abandon probably 80 million PS4 owners to sell to maybe 10 million PS5 owners? And just like PC the game is made for the hottest hardware out there and scaled back for older systems.

Why do people keep saying this? It happens literally every new generation and just because PS5 might be backwards compatible + possible performance scaling for PS4 titles being available doesn't mean that Sony won't want to launch with PS5 exclusive titles.

Horizon 2 running 4K/60 as a launch title would be Switch launch title levels of amazement and would definitely demonstrate why it would be great to upgrade AND offer GG a chance at scooping up a ton of EAs and be an 'evergreen' title fit the system. Couple that with e.g. a TLOU2 performance patch if the console launches in 2020 and you'd have a killer launch line-up.

All those old systems had totally different architecture. Nothing was compatible. It was either emulation or a complete PS2 chip that was included in some PS3's.

So explain why PS4 Pro games work in a PS4?

Thats a concerning question for you to ask if you're dipping your toes in a technical discussion about compatibility coding.

If you want forward compatibility for your games buy a PC. There are only a handful of games that are specifically targeting the highest end hardware (Star Citizen for example) at a design level rather than enhanced performance that being about slider settings.

Personally I want a box that enables developers to push the hardware to its limits without having to worry about less powerful devices.

 

[AmyS]

A completed and well refined Star Citizen (plus Squadron 42) running at native 2160p and 60fps would be an awesome launch game for PS5 and a technical showcase, especially for the new CPU. It would also demonstrate a game that could not be done on Scorpio (or PS4/PS4 Pro) because of their weak CPUs.

 

[Graphics Horse]

A completed and well refined Star Citizen (plus Squadron 42) running at native 2160p and 60fps would be an awesome launch game for PS5 and a technical showcase, especially for the new CPU. It would also demonstrate a game that could not be done on Scorpio (or PS4/PS4 Pro) because of their weak CPUs.

I'm not going to touch on the Star Citizen completion date, but why is PS5 expected to compete with XBX? I'd expect more people to have high end PCs than ever buy an XBX, and the Pro doesn't appear to have had a dramatic effect on PS4 sales. Unless Microsoft are pulling out of the console race (possible?), when the PS5 launches the next next Xbox will at least be a looming presence.

 

[AmyS]

I'm not going to touch on the Star Citizen completion date, but why is PS5 expected to compete with XBX? I'd expect more people to have high end PCs than ever buy an XBX, and the Pro doesn't appear to have had a dramatic effect on PS4 sales. Unless Microsoft are pulling out of the console race (possible?), when the PS5 launches the next next Xbox will at least be a looming presence.

I wasn't saying PS5 needs to or would be competing with Xbox (Scorpio) but rather, something like Star Citizen would be something that the current generation of consoles including PS4, could not handle.

 

[BigEmil]

Xbox One X having 12GB RAM so PS5 likely 16GB RAM

 

[AmyS]

Xbox One X having 12GB RAM so PS5 likely 16GB RAM

I don't feel that's enough. Assuming more or less 4 GB are reserved for OS / features, that leaves about 12 GB for games. I think 32 GB is a solid bet, with 24 GB being the minimum.

 

[c0de]

I don't feel that's enough. Assuming more or less 4 GB are reserved for OS / features, that leaves about 12 GB for games. I think 32 GB is a solid bet, with 24 GB being the minimum.

I don't see ram price going down that much in 3 years.

 

[Zombie James]

I don't feel that's enough. Assuming more or less 4 GB are reserved for OS / features, that leaves about 12 GB for games. I think 32 GB is a solid bet, with 24 GB being the minimum.

Anyone have any estimation on how much the PS4 OS uses? I know they got the PS3 OS down to 50MB at one point.

 

[RoboPlato]

Anyone have any estimation on how much the PS4 OS uses? I know they got the PS3 OS down to 50MB at one point.

I think it's still around 2-2.5gb

 

[Panajev2001a]

It is much more likely for the successor to the companion chip they use for standby mode and video recording and streaming to get even more memory and maybe a couple more cores and be given more OS duties (with a small percentage of the main APU to help speed some complex tasks up when those system apps are in the foreground especially).

This would allow the main CPU and GPU combo to keep more super fast RAM purely for games without requiring a super massive jump.

 

[Negotiator]

Anyone have any estimation on how much the PS4 OS uses? I know they got the PS3 OS down to 50MB at one point.

It's 3.5GB for OG PS4. XBOX 360 consumes 32MB for the OS and that includes party chat as well.

Sony hasn't provided any (public) update this gen if they reduced it or not (I'm not talking about Pro, just OG/Slim). They seem really confident (or arrogant if you will) with the PS4's success to bother with tech mumbo jumbo. Cerny comes out of his woodwork only whenever a new console is released (OG PS4, Neo/Pro) and then it's radio silence again.

PS3 was a mess and that's why you heard in the news every now and then about the reduced OS footprint... Sony was desperate for the PS3 to get some positive spotlight.

I also remember ND having a detailed presentation about maxing out the Cell SPUs in Uncharted 2 and they never made a similar video for Uncharted 4 about maxing out the Radeon CUs with Async Compute and tasks like physics or AI pathfinding.

Sorry for the rambling, I just miss the Sony of the PS3 era!

It is much more likely for the successor to the companion chip they use for standby mode and video recording and streaming to get even more memory and maybe a couple more cores and be given more OS duties (with a small percentage of the main APU to help speed some complex tasks up when those system apps are in the foreground especially).

I remember Jeff Rigby claiming that the southbridge (companion chip) is responsible for PVR duties, but that's just not true.

PS4/XB1 PVR uses GPU fixed-function hardware (VCE) for encoding and decoding (UVD) as well. The southbridge doesn't even have the necessary memory bandwidth or access to the main RAM to store videos (~1GB for 15 minutes encoded in H.264). 256MB DDR3 is also too small for that.