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Pachter talks about AdBlock

I've always wondered who actually clicks on ads. Honest question, has anyone here ever bought anything directly from an online ad?
I've only come somewhat close through one particular ad scheme, which was an Amazon thing where they'd link to items sort of related to the content of one or a few forum posts before a text only banner (where the links and titles were). I think I looked at a few items that caught my interest, but that ad scheme has always stuck with me as a pretty sensible one.
 
You know whats hilarious?

The Google store has AdBlock+, Google allows it to exist and be downloaded on its own store.

So you vehement AdBlock people better start some sort of movement of not using google owned anything.

The funny thing is that Google themselves make most of their money as an ad company... So you have ad company Google being relatively sane with the advertisements they show... and then offering a way to block even their own ads. Alternatively, Google doesn't care if you block ads so long as it is the ads of the competition, because that means more money for them.
 
People can try to justify it all they want, but AdBlock is stealing.

If there's a $100 fee to get into an Amusement Park and you feel that's too high of a price, you can't justify hopping over the fence. Go somewhere else instead.
Most people are only hopping that fence to use the restroom.
 
HBO seems to be doing pretty well.

Premium networks like HBo charge much more for content than the vast majority of cable networks. While they can command $20, is that the price, per subscription some channels get only a few cents of what a customer payers on a cable bill.
 
Jimquisition did it better.


Like, way, WAY better.
He didn't rage, he reasoned.

Yet the Pachter thread is generating just as much discussion and surprisingly most posts are about the points he made instead of the way he said it.

I personally don't use adblock but I use noscript because certain ads actually use up computer resources (like SHoryuken.com used to up until last year) or have been methods for infections to get on my PC (easily a concern that pops up at least 2 times a year).

The advertising ecosystem has been getting a lot of rethinks but aside from the old pop up system they haven't put much thought in doing the right thing for the people they are trying to get the attention of.
 
It's like arguing you owe a street performer money simply because you are within earshot. That's not how it works. Websites are not honeypots that you land on and suddenly owe someone something. You need good content. You need to be valuable to users.

If you go to a site to consume their content you owe them not to block their ads. Simple as that.

They don't ask for money btw.

Walking by a Street Performer and going to ganetrailers to watch a video are two very different things.

Very different..
 
Blocking advertisements is stealing? Wow.

Guess we have come full circle... from "ads are evil and trying to manipulate people into buying stuff they don't need" to "we are stealing for not allowing them to play".

aVZgT.gif
 
So because I am an idiot worst-kind-of-person-in-the-world scumbag who sucks and because I am literally stealing and destroying content creation, here is a transcript of Pachter's rant that I wrote:


Question:

As content creation becomes easier through new innovations such as having Twitch integrated into consoles, as well as self-publishing through YouTube, what's the point of gaming sites? Is game journalism dead? I also refuse to visit any site without first having Adblock enabled, blocking any potential ad revenue and if GameTrailers or others go out of business because of it I could care less."


Pachter:

"Wow. You're a great dude."


Question (continued):

"I'll always be able to get trailers, previews, etc through some other site if not the publisher's site directly and there are hundreds of sites with reviews. Therefore, I feel that most sites will disappear since I don't see them fulfilling any kind of demand that couldn't be satiated someplace else. What are your thoughts?"


Pachter:

"All right. You're the worst kind of person in the world, because you want everything for free. You don't even want to sit through ads because you're just low-bottom-sucking scum. You think the guys sitting in my office right now should work for free (I actually do work for free), they shouldn't be paid, the camera equipment should be bought by somebody and not get an earn-out on that because you're too much of a scumbag to watch ads? I can tell you there are guys a hell of a lot smarter than you working on defeating Adblock, so I will predict boldly you knowing shit about software development or the Internet. Adblock will get beat. There will be guys who figure out a way to make you watch ads that you can't block, and even if you do it will be just dead space or 30 seconds your content won't start, you'll just be sitting there staring at a blank screen for 30 seconds. Might as well run the ad, scumbag.

But the point is, and the reason I keep calling you a scumbag (and by the way, you are one), is if you consume content that's professionally created by people who expect ot be paid for it, you need to pay for it. And the beauty of sites like GameTrailers is they give you a lot of compelling content and the only thing they ask you to do is to pay attention to ads...and you don't even have to, you can walk out of the room and come back. But, that's all they're asking you to do is deal with the ad so they can get paid. And, you know, you watch commercial TV, I guess you DVR every show and zip through it, you're a scumbag, that's fine, that's the price you pay to get stuff for free. And if you choose not to pay it you're absolutely right, you said it right, professionals will go away, the world will consist of YouTube.

So if everybody had your attitude, we would have no television, TV would go away because professionally-produced content would disappear, and we would live in a society run by anarchists. And it would be YouTube, and if you wanna watch YouTube all day instead of watching Breaking Bad (which I think is some of the best TV I've ever seen), great, go for it. Because no one's going to pay for it, if nobody pays for it, it won't get created. That really sucks. Sucks for you. Because you like everything for free, and yet you're not even willing to pay your fair part. You suck. So, I hope you don't watch this on GameTrailers, they won't block it on YouTube, and guess what, on YouTube there are ads too. I know you block them. Imagine if Google couldn't get paid. We wouldn't have [Google] Search. The Internet would stop if we didn't have ads. You idiot. Everything would stop. You idiot.

I mean the reason that we get like music, the reason that Pandora exists is ads. If no one could monetize you would get nothing. Artists wouldn't exist. You wouldn't have music. You idiot. So, you say, let's go back, "What is the point of gaming sites?" The point of gaming sites is that you have people who spend full-time thinking about this stuff. Now I cover 19 companies, among them Best Buy and Netflix and Pandora, I don't spend all my time thinking about games. I spend 20% of my time thinking about games. So I don't even know if Elder Scrolls Online is subscription or free-to-play, I don't even know if Destiny has a single-player campaign, I'll figure it out when I get asked a question on Pach-Attack, whatever. But guess what, the guys who run gaming websites know that stuff, and it's a great place to go to find that out.

If you want to know if you should spend $60 on a game, it's nice to read a game review. Yeah you can get that stuff free, you can go and read user reviews. Boy that's really helpful. I would rather read Jim Sterling's reviews because Jim Sterling is my boy. He writes honest reviews, I would rather read Jeff Gerstmann's reviews because Jeff Gerstmann is really good. If I read those guy;s reviews, I know if I should get that game or not. And before I spend $60, I want a professional opinion. Hey guess what, those guys make money from ads. Giant Bomb is free, and so is [The] Escapist. Free. I know Sterling, I read his shit, and I can't even remember where it is, but I watch the damn ads. Those are free, and I don't think that either Jeff Gerstmann or Jim Sterling make very much money, I think they probably like are on subsistence wages, but they make enough to like pay rent and buy food, and if you don't watch the ads, they can't eat, and they can't cover their heads with shelter, and they have to go do something else. And if they do something else, I don't know which games to buy, you bastard. So you should watch the goddamn ads. Was I clear enough?

By the way, what do you think a think a "game trailer" is, you moron? It's an ad. When you watch a game trailer it's an ad for a game. It's unbelievable. Adblock Plus. You suck. So just start watching stuff without ads and then wonder where it comes from and then crow about how you got it for free. Oh god, it's almost stealing, it's just wrong.

You are a true saint, now I can actually see what all the fuss is about!

Edit: Hold on, Pachter works for free?
 
Which is what I don't get. I have never once intentionally clicked on an ad, 99% of the time the ad's aren't even something I would be interested in, the 1% of the time it has no effect. It is a massive waste of money, but maybe I don't understand marketing and advertising. I'm sure someone will say "There is an unconscious connection, it makes you want pizza." Sorry, BS.

The average click through rate of a standard banner is around .10%. That's a high estimate.

However, not every advertisers charges per click. Most charge per 1000 impressions (CPM). A user doesn't have to click on an ad for it to be "effective" in the eyes of a advertisers, it just has to get the message out.

I largely agree with you though, it's usefulness is questionable at best. Which is bad news for websites that thrive off of it.

We can talk about what's morally right until we're blue in the face. I'm more interested in causes and consequences.
 
Lol, I already do! Neogaf provides better coverage of any press event than most games media.

Which is why I mentioned blacklisting every thread that uses another news site you like to use. Neogaf is just an awesome aggregator of information. Little of the news forum members provide is originally produced.

That would make you appreciate the impact of those gaming sites' work.
 
If everyone did this, the shows you like would stop getting funded. Whether you call it "stealing" or not, it's bad for the industry.

No, they will just have to switch to a different business model. For example subscriptions or pay per view.
This might actually be a good change since click baiting wouldn't be a viable income source anymore. They will have to generate content that people are actually willing to pay for.
 
He's right tho

Very insightful, wonderful contribution. How is he right though, cause it seems we really disagree.

Again, hardly anyone would have a problem with ads if they didn't evolve into this in your face flash/annoying sound/video. But then again ad companies know that their shit doesn't work so they are trying harder to get in your face about it. Guess what, it doesn't work.
 
Premium networks like HBo charge much more for content than the vast majority of cable networks. While they can command $20, is that the price, per subscription some channels get only a few cents of what a customer payers on a cable bill.
Let them charge, or at least find another way to monetize that doesn't involve watching video ads. I would pay for youtube gold or something like that.
I mean, even DVR users are scumbags now? Pachter is full of shit. Netflix is doing fine as well.
Stop doing crap like this. No one wants to pay a la carte for channels, that is crazy talk.
I'll pay for good content. It's up to them to find the model that will maximize profits without making it unpleasant for the customer.
 
Maybe i am just a scumbag piece of shit thief but whenever someone says "AdBlock is stealing" i can't help but to laugh.

Lets say there are 100,000 people who use AdBlock (and this is beyond a lowball) and 20,000 of those people watch boogie2988 everyday on YT. He makes money with ads but also with views, right? What if those 20,000 stopped viewing his videos because they were suddenly forced to watch ads that they don't want to watch. Wouldn't Boogie make more money from having those adblock users watching with no ads then not having those 20k views? Yeah, it's an extreme example but so is calling a fucking adblock user a thief.

When i go to Gametrailers or Youtube that content is free. You are not putting it behind a paywall, i don't need an account to consume your content so who the fuck are you to tell me how i consume it? Why should i have to go over my phone data because you force a minute ad for a 30 second video? I am not saying i use adblock but if i did use adblock i would use it on sites like Youtube and Gametrailers. I would exclusivly use it on sites that force ads before videos and i would use it on sites i have never visited before (at least for the first time to make sure nothing malicious is there) AdBlock is useful for many reasons and it's not just there to block ads (although yes, most people use it for that reason.

If you want to do ads make them not intrusive and make your ads shorter. And to make it very clear for you pro AD knights of salty i don't use adblock on GAF and i never would.
 
Yes Pachter has mentioned before that he doesn't get paid by GameTrailers, all he gets is a coffee that they bring him when they arrive.

If we're being pedantic, that isn't free, but that's not something worth arguing about. Edit: also yeah, the post below points out he himself gets exposure from GameTrailers, and that's probably worth giving up the money he would normally get.

RE people defeating Adblock: as long as porn with ads exists, there will be people finding a way to stop those ads.
 
By the way, what do you think a think a "game trailer" is, you moron? It's an ad. When you watch a game trailer it's an ad for a game.

I think it's kind of weird how few people seem to get this. Sure you reading this might but the guys who go on Gametrailers or YouTube watching trailers without visiting any sort of forum or anything like that probably never think of them like ads.
 
You are a true saint, now I can actually see what all the fuss is about!

Edit: Hold on, Pachter works for free?

Yeah he doesn't get paid for his game trailers stuff. But don't think he doesn't get something significant from it. I'm sure being the most well known analyst in the Video game industry has more than it's fair share of perks, in his line of work.
 
No, they will just have to switch to a different business model. For example subscriptions or pay per view.
This might actually be a good change since click baiting wouldn't be a viable income source anymore. They will have to generate content that people are actually willing to pay for.

Sure....

If the entire internet is behind a paywall one day people will refer to to our times as the golden ages.

Everything was free - all you had to do was watch an ad here and there...
 
Adblock only exists because people/companies that advertise on the web have proven themselves to have no morals and no self control.

If the ads that were being served up weren't annoying, invasive, and occasionally dangerous, Adblock and its ilk wouldn't have gained any traction.

I guess I'm the only one who remembers going to a website and seeing more than one popup window, pop-under windows, ads that played sound at high volume as soon as they loaded, ads that slowed down loading immensely with large amounts of flash video, ads that captured your mouse cursor so you could play the "game" they put in their banner, ads that expanded to cover up the actual content of the page you were trying to visit, etc.

And that's not even getting into the ones that are actively hostile to your computer, spreading tracking cookies, spyware, adware, malware, trying to get you to install malicious programs, and so on.

Websites have to prove that they are trustworthy with the ads they serve up, then I will unblock them. I let ads through on GAF, I let ads through on Giant Bomb (even though this occasionally means annoying full page background ads on the actual website page), I let ads through on GameTrailers, and a few others. Everything else stays blocked until I see reason to whitelist the site.

Hell, even trusted sites like GAF occasionally let bullshit ads through on the desktop or mobile versions of the site accidentally, before they pinpoint where the awful ads are coming from.

Call me a thief all you want. I'm not putting my computer at risk by letting ads through on every website on the internet.

Bottom line, advertisers cannot be trusted. Therefore, Adblock.
 
Whenever I click ads it's accidental. Like when you're about to click a link or a button and the entire page jolts down suddenly; because an ad loaded in that very moment and didn't have its space reserved in the page layout. Argh!

Highly speculative. I think you give some people far, far too much credit.
Sorry, I meant personally. "Adblock wouldn't be running for me". ;)
 
I generally disable ABP on sites I visit that don't seem shitty, and leave it disabled unless their ads turn out to be. I want to support sites and people who provide stuff I read/watch/whatever, but there will always be a limit to what I'm willing to put up with.

Like, Youtube has grown annoying recently. I don't want to deal with all these unskippable 20+ second ads. And so on PC, I don't. The only site so far I've actively decided to block.
 
TBF if there was an easy to use way to prevent tv from having ads I'm sure many would use it. In many cases ads are in conflict of interest with the user unless they're completely unobtrusive. Ironically the closest thing to an unobtrusive ad exist on the (a simple not too large banner that doesn't impede you in any way).

What I don't understand is companies stupid enough to think that an obtrusive ad will sell me anything other than complete disdain for the company in question. Ads work both ways, they can just as easily harm your brand as well as help it.

Hell, it's a big reason why I just DVR shows. The closest thing I was to watching a show live was breaking bad, where I would start the episode about 10-15 minutes late, rewind, and play so I could fast forward through. Also a big reason why I just wait and netflix shows, as ads can destroy pacing of things and there's enough bombardment we all deal with everyday.
 
It's likely that their ads do work though. Otherwise they wouldn't keep paying for them.

How many ad's have you seen that has made you go out & buy that product because you had seen the ad ?

Coke & Pepsi spend $1b each a year on advertising & sponsorships & you go into a restaurant or bar & ask for a Coke, the waiter/bartender says all we have is Pepsi, you reply yeah ok.
 
Which is why I mentioned blacklisting every thread that uses another news site you like to use. Neogaf is just an awesome aggregator of information. Little of the news forum members provide is originally produced.

That would make you appreciate the impact of those gaming sites' work.

I still disagree because almost all the news from E3 that I care about comes out during the press conferences, and that stuff usually gets streamed or broadcast directly to the public, so again...I don't really get my information from the games media. I'm getting it directly from the source.
 
Maybe i am just a scumbag piece of shit thief but whenever someone says "AdBlock is stealing" i can't help but to laugh.

Lets say there are 100,000 people who use AdBlock (and this is beyond a lowball) and 20,000 of those people watch boogie2988 everyday on YT. He makes money with ads but also with views, right? What if those 20,000 stopped viewing his videos because they were suddenly forced to watch ads that they don't want to watch. Wouldn't Boogie make more money from having those adblock users watching with no ads then not having those 20k views? Yeah, it's an extreme example but so is calling a fucking adblock user a thief.

When i go to Gametrailers or Youtube that content is free. You are not putting it behind a paywall, i don't need an account to consume your content so who the fuck are you to tell me how i consume it? Why should i have to go over my phone data because you force a minute ad for a 30 second video? I am not saying i use adblock but if i did use adblock i would use it on sites like Youtube and Gametrailers. I would exclusivly use it on sites that force ads before videos and i would use it on sites i have never visited before (at least for the first time to make sure nothing malicious is there) AdBlock is useful for many reasons and it's not just there to block ads (although yes, most people use it for that reason.

If you want to do ads make them not intrusive and make your ads shorter.

Well, if we're merely talking about boogie getting paid from ad revenue, he would only get paid off of one of three things, depending on how it's set up:

Cost Per Impression (view): Usually by the 1000's. However, it's tallied by a pixel fire that happens when the ad starts, not counted by the number of times the video is seen. So yes, people using adblock would prevent him from getting paid out under this model

Cost Per Completed View: This is tallied by a pixel firing at the end of an ad. Adblock would block this revenue.

Cost Per Click: Tallied by a click on the ad, if there's a button to click off to the advertiser's site. This too would be blocked by adblock.

Understand, Youtube is a pretty shitty monetization setup. A lot of people don't like it and are moving away from it. Yes, you have those that are making a great sum from it, but it's shrinking over time, and the few that are are becoming fewer. It'll be interesting to see where the content goes.
 
There are more reasons to use Adblock than not

* Blocking ads saves bandwidth
* Blocking ads protects you against from NFSW content in a SFW enviroment
* Blocking ads protects you against potential malware and security threats
* Blocking ads makes sites load faster
* Blocking ads makes viewing sites aethesticlly cleaner
* Blocking ads saves you time by not viewing unskippable ads on videos
* Blocking ads stops instrusive pop ups
* Blocking ads prevents you from acidently from clicking fake links or downloads
* Blocking ads stops you from acidently clicking on one
* Blocking ads stops ads with instusive sounds

Dont tell people what they can and cant do. Find alternate revenue streams such as subscriptions.

It's funny because I've seen complete meltdowns when a site all of a sudden starts locking things away behind a paywall. "Why don't you use ads for this thing I like?!?!?!"

Make up your fucking minds already.
 
Adblock only exists because people/companies that advertise on the web have proven themselves to have no morals and no self control.

If the ads that were being served up weren't annoying, invasive, and occasionally dangerous, Adblock and its ilk wouldn't have gained any traction.

I guess I'm the only one who remembers going to a website and seeing more than one popup window, pop-under windows, ads that played sound at high volume as soon as they loaded, ads that slowed down loading immensely with large amounts of flash video, ads that captured your mouse cursor so you could play the "game" they put in their banner, ads that expanded to cover up the actual content of the page you were trying to visit, etc.

And that's not even getting into the ones that are actively hostile to your computer, spreading tracking cookies, spyware, adware, malware, trying to get you to install malicious programs, and so on.

Websites have to prove that they are trustworthy with the ads they serve up, then I will unblock them. I let ads through on GAF, I let ads through on Giant Bomb (even though this occasionally means annoying full page background ads on the actual website page), I let ads through on GameTrailers, and a few others. Everything else stays blocked until I see reason to whitelist the site.

Call me a thief all you want. I'm not putting my computer at risk by letting ads through on every website on the internet.

Bottom line, advertisers cannot be trusted. Therefore, Adblock.

Hey look someone gets it.

It's funny because I've seen complete meltdowns when a site all of a sudden starts locking things away behind a paywall. "Why don't you use ads for this thing I like?!?!?!"

Make up your fucking minds already.

Use ads, I don't mind. Just make them like the ones here, why is that such a problem. I wouldn't use ABP if I wasn't forced to use it.
 
I think people are forgetting a huge thing... If these companies really didn't want you to view their content when you use adblocker... They could. or at the very least, they could make your life a lot harder to do so (see Hulu).

Another thing people seem to gloss over is that Ads aren't just ads... They are tracking tools. These ads on the top of the screen hide the much more profitably business of tracking and monitoring users... Where they go, what they look at, what they click, etc... Cookies collecting not only stuff you see on that single page, but every video you click, every porn site you visit, which bank sites you visit most often, etc.
 
Which is what I don't get. I have never once intentionally clicked on an ad, 99% of the time the ad's aren't even something I would be interested in, the 1% of the time it has no effect. It is a massive waste of money, but maybe I don't understand marketing and advertising. I'm sure someone will say "There is an unconscious connection, it makes you want pizza." Sorry, BS.

But that's literally what ads are! Just displaying the ads for a product on a site will help raise awareness about the product; to remind people that a product they might be interested in is soon to be released. Advertisers largely moved away from caring about "clickthrough" on their ads (Ubisoft doesn't give a two shits about you clicking an ad that leads to their website or not as long as you see the product). When you browse a website (and don't use adblock) you notice the ads on that site, and that's what they want.

You're basically saying that ads don't work, and I can say that yes, you do not understand marketing and advertising.

It's funny because I've seen complete meltdowns when a site all of a sudden starts locking things away behind a paywall. "Why don't you use ads for this thing I like?!?!?!"

Make up your fucking minds already.

For sure. People are by and large used to getting shit for free from websites on the internet. Only some kind of sites can survive on a subscription model, and it's not sites like GT, IGN or Gamespot, some of the worst offenders of IN YOUR FACE ads among gaming sites.

If it was as easy as just locking stuff behind paywalls more sites would of course do that. As it stands right now there's no mainstream alternative to ads for revenue for most sites. I think "everyone" wants to move away from the ad model because it's clearly not sustainable, but as of right now we haven't found a good alternative.
 
I think it's kind of weird how few people seem to get this. Sure you reading this might but the guys who go on Gametrailers or YouTube watching trailers without visiting any sort of forum or anything like that probably never think of them like ads.

It's not all that strange if you go to cinema and see trailers you get a similar response from some of the watchers. People don't like being forced to look at or hear stuff they're not interested in. As long they are interested in it it's fair game and simply information.

The difference between an add an information can often be fairly slim. A lot of people actually want many companies services it's part of their living hobby or way of life as we live in a capitalist society.
 
...uh... False? I've seen people get banned for admitting they use adblock on gaf


I swear I've seen a mod (I thought EviLore but it's been so long I can't remember) say it's not true.

I found this quote from him:

EviLore said:
I care if you flaunt that you use it for GAF while posting on GAF, and if you recommend that other people do it. In every one of these threads mentioning GAF's ads there's always someone like, "LOL you see ads on GAF? Adblock baby!" It's a really shitty thing to do on a website that's completely free and has some of the most unobtrusive ads you'll see.

Which isn't super clear. The actual post appears to be gone too, but someone had quoted him.

Link.
 
Wow, Pachter is really rude. Didn't like the guy before and this surely didn't change my mind.

Regarding the topic, people avoiding ads are in the minority, so the "if everybody did this" speculation doesn't really matter. People who hate ads are unlikely to be influenced by them as well so they're not a big loss for the advertising companies anyway.
 
o_O Sweet Jesus, I expected it to morph into the Angry Marine copypasta at any minute.

I do agree with his general sentiment though. Are ads annoying? Yup. But are they necessary to keep the content behind them? Absolutely. Maybe these sites should start trying to figure out alternative ways of bringing in that lost revenue though, whatever those alternatives may be.
 
Aggressive pop up ads that redirect or have false mouse overs have led to this environment. Too bad since some sites aren't obnoxious about them and are required for their survival.
 
Ok Im sorry but after years of using adblock, turning it off or using a computer without it is almost impossible. How do people browse the internet with all of the clutter and nonsense?

I would be willing to pay for a service that blocks ads or tv commercials (If that was ever possible)

I pay for spotify and I pay for Netflix. Screw ads they are the STD's of the internet.
 
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