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Paramount Says ‘Ghost In The Shell’ Flopped Because Of Whitewashing Controversy

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K

kmax

Member
Ridley327 said:
Again, Sanders is not a newbie, and his previous film cost $60 million more to make than this did. He undoubtedly got the job as a result of Snow White and the Huntsman winding up as a minor success and could be seen as a pretty safe choice to go with that would also not be particularly expensive, compared to a more established director.
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He only did one feature film prior to GiTS, effectively making him a newbie at directing feature films. Before Snow White and the Huntsman, he couldn't even be classified as a newbie in that department. Until he has a at least a couple of films under his belt, he will be regarded as a newcomer.

No studio in their right mind should give newbies a chance to direct blockbusters. You don't let a pilot that has never flown a plane before start flying jumbo jets frequently. They need to build up their skills, and they do that by acquiring experience. That goes for any profession or goal for that matter. Start small, aim big.
 
E

ElBoxyBrown

Banned
kmax said:
He only did one feature film prior to GiTS, effectively making him a newbie at directing feature films. Before Snow White and the Huntsman, he couldn't even be classified as a newbie in that department. Until he has a at least a couple of films under his belt, he will be regarded as a newcomer.

No studio in their right mind should give newbies a a chance to direct blockbusters. You don't let a pilot that has never flown a jumbo jet before start flying them frequently. They need to build up their skills, and they do that by acquiring experience. That goes for any profession or goal for that matter. Start small, aim big.
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Hollywood is banking on newbies directing blockbusters. There was a thread that had a list of movies that were directed by a bunch of newcomers in the industry. We already had Kong not too long ago from a guy who only did an indie film.

Edit: I should specify, male newbies, cuz LOL if you think Hollywood cares about female newbies.
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
The anime fanboy illuminati strikes again, like how they also killed Dragonball Z and The Last Airbender.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
Permanently A said:
“You’ve got a movie that is very important to the fanboys since it’s based on a Japanese anime movie,” Davies added. “So you’re always trying to thread that needle between honoring the source material and make a movie for a mass audience. That’s challenging, but clearly the reviews didn’t help.”

so apparently japanese actress = honoring the source material while white actress = movie for a mass audience

you can't make up this kind of fuckery
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Yeah, he basically straight up said, you can't have an Asian lead in a mass market film. I mean. Fucking hell.

Patrick Bateman said:
But isn't it true?
It's all speculation, but do you think a GitS with an all Asian cast (or at least an Asian female lead) would have sold better?

The mass market is still the audience that wants a flashy action movie. Not the (rather small I guess) audience that comprises of die hard Anime-fans that would watch the movie only with an Asian cast.
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They could probably have met both audiences by 1) being more faithful to the source RE: casting, and 2) made a better film. If they think that's risky, then scale the budget down and make it a bit more focused.

I keep seeing the casting of Johansson as "playing it safe" when that's one of the main things that tanked their film. That's not playing it safe. Playing safe would be to make film that is respectful to the source material, on a modest budget.
 
R

Ridley327

Member
ElBoxyBrown said:
Hollywood is banking on newbies directing blockbusters. There was a thread that had a list of movies that were directed by a bunch of newcomers in the industry. We already had Kong not too long ago from a guy who only did an indie film.
Click to expand...

Seriously, it's a major trend for projects these days. Sanders might have been one of the luckier ones, but he's hardly one in a million.
 
K

KSweeley

Member
It looks like Ghost in the Shell can be added to this list of "costly flops" for Paramount: https://variety.com/2017/film/box-o...in-the-shell-beauty-and-the-beast-1202020980/

Paramount has gone through a punishing run at the box office, enduring costly flops such as “Allied” and “Ben-Hur,” while going through a series of executive shakeups that resulted in the ousters of chairman Brad Grey and vice-chairman Rob Moore. It has a newly named studio chief in Jim Gianopulos, the former head of Fox’s film division, whose task it will be to bring more creative stability to the company.
Click to expand...
 
B

BronsonLee

Member
Are you guys really saying he didn't deserve to direct an anime movie because he only did one other movie before when that movie was also based on something infinitely more popular

I don't see how GITS does well at all anyways tbh, but Paramount loves to go all-in on their stupidity
 
E

Elandyll

Banned
Nah.

Trailers were terrible and not telling the average moviegoer what it was all about, beside having Scarlett Johanson in a terrible looking wet suit and an awful aircut.

Edit: and of course the movie itself didn't review well.
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
GhaleonEB said:
Yeah, he basically straight up said, you can't have an Asian lead in a mass market film. I mean. Fucking hell.
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This is in some senses true, but is also a self-created problem with a solution that has to come from themselves, which they'll never accept.

We need, like, an Asian Peele to really show Hollywood America will pay cash dollars to see Asian Americans. They will never face their own prejudice and hypocrisy otherwise.
 
K

KSweeley

Member
Haly said:
This is in some senses true, but is also a self-created problem with a solution that has to come from themselves, which they'll never accept.

We need, like, an Asian Peele to really show Hollywood America will pay cash dollars to see Asian Americans. They will never face their own prejudice and hypocrisy otherwise.
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I am seriously hoping that Netflix takes a gamble and cast an Asian lead for one of their Netflix Original movies and they get it into theaters in a wide release and it actually makes a lot of money at the American box office.
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
KSweeley said:
I am seriously hoping that Netflix takes a gamble and cast an Asian lead for one of their Netflix Original movies and they get it into theaters in a wide release and it actually makes a lot of money at the American box office.
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I can only hope. Netflix is a lot less pigheaded about this kind of stuff.
 
B

BronsonLee

Member
kurahador said:
I still don't understand how he went from shorts (unknown shorts I might add) to Snow White in the first place.
His Hollywood connection must be super strong.
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Just seems like that's the game nowadays

That being said I'm still stunned the whole affair thing on Snow White didn't sink his career 8 feet into the earth

Haly said:
This is in some senses true, but is also a self-created problem with a solution that has to come from themselves, which they'll never accept.

We need, like, an Asian Peele to really show Hollywood America will pay cash dollars to see Asian Americans. They will never face their own prejudice and hypocrisy otherwise.
Click to expand...

I'd say Justin Lin but that motherfucker just wants everyone in his film
 
M

MegaManTrigger

Banned
To say it flopped because of solely the whitewashing controversy is extremely disingenuous. You should also point to the flaws of the movie (something studios don't like to do for whatever reason).
 
K

KSweeley

Member
teruterubozu said:
Yup, he blames it on the White Washing Controversy, not the actual white washing.
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And the whitewashing trickled down into the movie itself as well: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...esses-dissect-movie-whitewashing-twist-990956

The movie opened Friday, and The Hollywood Reporter invited four actresses of Japanese descent to watch Ghost in the Shell on opening weekend and participate in a candid discussion about the film, its whitewashing charges and working conditions for actresses of color in Hollywood. The participants were Keiko Agena (Gilmore Girls), stage actor/writer Traci Kato-Kiriyama (PULLproject Ensemble), Atsuko Okatsuka (co-founder of the all-Asian, mostly female Dis/orient/ed Comedy tour) and Ai Yoshihara (The Sea of Trees).

What they discovered in watching the Hollywood adaptation was a surprising twist: Johansson's Major,
told that she is a refugee named Mira Killian whose brain was rescued from a terrorist attack and put into a cybernetic body, is actually a Japanese runaway named Motoko Kusanagi
 who was kidnapped by Hanka Robotics as part of its ongoing experiment to create the ultimate cyborg weapon. Major reunites with her Japanese mother toward the end of the film, as well as with the terrorist Kuze (Michael Pitt), whom her squad has been chasing,
who is actually Hideo, an old friend
who was earlier abducted by Hanka and became a failed prototype
.
Click to expand...
 
R

Ridley327

Member
kurahador said:
I still don't understand how he went from shorts (unknown shorts I might add) to Snow White in the first place.
His Hollywood connection must be super strong.
Click to expand...

Universal is pretty egregious when it comes to that. The 47 Ronin director also had one well-received VFX-driven short before he got that job, and I don't think anyone was expecting the director of a super low-budget indie dramedy based in some part on an internet meme would have been given the keys to the Jurassic Park franchise. I guess it does work out for them more often than not, but it's pretty risky.

Bottom line is this, though: Rupert Sanders getting the GITS made a hell of a lot more sense than Rupert Sanders getting the Snow White gig.
 
K

kmax

Member
ElBoxyBrown said:
Hollywood is banking on newbies directing blockbusters. There was a thread that had a list of movies that were directed by a bunch of newcomers in the industry. We already had Kong not too long ago from a guy who only did an indie film.
Click to expand...

I find it amazing that they rather give unproven white guys a chance at directing blockbusters constantly rather than experienced filmmakers that happen to be female or not white. It's bizarre.

I honestly don't know how what their thougth process is with that.
 
M

moltonasty

Member
Dumb as fuck. I would've seen it if word of mouth was good. But it wasn't. So I didn't see it. If anything you would think the "controversy" would boost sales by increasing conversation and awareness about the movie?
 
C

CadetMahoney

Member
Grizzlyjin said:
giphy.gif
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hah, never seen this one before.
 
R

RedZaraki

Banned
KSweeley said:
“So you’re always trying to thread that needle between honoring the source material and make a movie for a mass audience. That’s challenging, but clearly the reviews didn’t help.”
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Where is the conflict here? Is he insinuating that a Japanese actress is not viable for a mass audience?
 
B

BronsonLee

Member
kurahador said:
No it isn't!! Name other director who went from shorts to $170 million movie.
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If I'd be allowed to expand it to small indie films (which I should be able to, because duh):

Gareth Edwards
Jordan Vogt-Roberts
Colin Trevorrow
Taika Waititi
Tim Miller (mostly animation, but you get it)
Marc Webb

Like I can keep going. Someone sees a short or a indie film they like, they scoop them up early.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Has any recent film with major whitewashing controversy for the lead role been a success?

Gods of Egypt, Aloha, 47 Ronin, and now Ghost in the Shell are all bombs.

Edge of Tomorrow, Prince of Persia, and The last Airbender didn't do great.

You have to go all the way back 9 years with "21" to find a big success with whitewashing, when social media was still transitioning from Myspace to Facebook.
 
S

smileyforall220

Member
Permanently A said:
“You’ve got a movie that is very important to the fanboys since it’s based on a Japanese anime movie,” Davies added. “So you’re always trying to thread that needle between honoring the source material and make a movie for a mass audience. That’s challenging, but clearly the reviews didn’t help.”

so apparently japanese actress = honoring the source material while white actress = movie for a mass audience

you can't make up this kind of fuckery
Click to expand...

Nah, I think you're way off base. Mainstream known actress=movie for mass audience. Unknown Japanese actress = honoring source
 
P

Phamit

Member
thepotatoman said:
Has any recent film with major whitewashing controversy for the lead role been a success?

Gods of Egypt, Aloha, 47 Ronin, and now Ghost in the Shell are all bombs.

Edge of Tomorrow, Prince of Persia, and The last Airbender didn't do great.

You have to go all the way back 9 years with "21" to find a big success with whitewashing, when social media was still transitioning from Myspace to Facebook.
Click to expand...

Doctor Strange?
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
thepotatoman said:
Has any recent film with major whitewashing controversy for the lead role been a success?

Gods of Egypt, Aloha, 47 Ronin, and now Ghost in the Shell are all bombs.

Edge of Tomorrow, Prince of Persia, and The last Airbender didn't do great.

You have to go all the way back 9 years with "21" to find a big success with whitewashing, when social media was still transitioning from Myspace to Facebook.
Click to expand...

Only Doctor Strange is the recent exception and that's because of the Marval film fanbase.

It's a stretch to say this perhaps but the Heimdall/Elbis """controversy""" didn't affect Thor's performance either.

Basically if you're not an international superbrand, stop whitewashing. It doesn't work.
 
shira

shira

Member
The liveaction hollywood Naruto casting will be a huge point of contention.

I hope they get the right kid.
 
EviLore

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
-Acquire the rights to a relatively obscure cyberpunk manga & anime IP with a body of work notable for its uniquely Japanese feel, its boundary-pushing philosophical complexity that influenced science fiction for decades to follow, and its careful balancing act of intriguing narrative, a strong ensemble of diverse characters whose interactions highlight the ways in which humanity and social dynamics have changed by the technological renaissance of the premise, all punctuated by explicit violence and sexuality in direct service of this provocative exploration of transhumanist cyberpunk philosophy.

-Assume you'll make more money for your Japanese cyberpunk transhumanism philosophy-action film if you strip out all the challenging philosophy, awkwardly whitewash it while trying to retain the rest of its Japanese identity, target it for PG-13 as if Ghost in the Shell is that hot new YA series you saw your granddaughter reading at the country club or whatever the fuck you do, and be sure to specifically invoke the star power of an actress transparently lacking the necessary charisma and credibility as an action protagonist. And make it all about her.

Those picky fanboys tho. It's a tough life over at Paramount HQ.
 
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